Pluto on Mangini
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#7 is an important point. you HAVE to win those games against the shittier teams in the league. the raiders might have beaten the eagles, bengals, and steelers, but every game that the raiders have won was decided by 4 points or less. furthermore, they were crushed by the pathetic redskins IN oakland and they've also lost to the chiefs and we're blown out by almost every other team that they lost to.
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It's good to have someone in the media writing the kinds of things Browns Board posters have been saying, especially when the writer is one of the few media folks I have some respect for.
Woof Woof, Kathy http://cognitivemanifesto.com/ http://www.skadden.com/index.cfm?contentID=49&officeID=9 Bendix ESP -
does anybody else get the feeling that it is only the media that is manufacturing stories of how holmgren is goin to fire mangini ?
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Thank goodness there's finally some agreement with Pluto around here that everyone on the coaching staff is a long shot to return.
Aside from that I'd say Pluto does a pretty good job finding some of the bright spots - and I don't think anyone would suggest that EVERYTHING Mangini has done was without some good intentions or was outright wrong.
Is the team more disciplined than under Romeo? Yup. How could it not be?
But discipline and respect go hand in hand - and coaches need to earn their respect before demanding discipline. Did Mangini go about things the right way? I'd bet even Mangini would admit numerous mis-steps in that regard and would acknowledge that one only gets one chance to make a first impression with key team members. But is the discipline improved over Romeo? Yup - you have to give that to Mangini.
As far as some of the other points, yes, no points should be taken away from beating the worst teams in the NFL. I would agree with the various Power Rankings that have the Browns around 28 or so. That's not a huge thing to be proud of but it's better than being 32 like they were earlier in the season.
On WaterBottle Gate I think an objective mind needs to acknowledge the middle ground. Was Edwards a douche who needed a message sent? Yup.
Is the former PR Intern really surprised that a $1700 fine for not paying for a bottle of water blew up in his face and helped cement the impresssion that he was a coach who demanded discipline before earning the respect of his team? Is the former PR Intern surprised that a mandatory/voluntary bus trip to Hartford while he took a plane blew up in his face? He shouldn't be. He made those decisions and should have forseen the PR consequences.
Was the demolition of the Browns Mural taken out of context? Maybe - maybe not.... but to this day I can't seem to get a straight answer from anyone about the "new more visible location" of the Mural - no one seems to know where it is, and that doesn't strike me as more visible. My guess is that it really WAS demolished and no one wants to say anything about that right now.
Giving Mangini credit for keeping the team under the salary cap is idiotic however - there's no choice in the matter. And Mangini needs to own his choice of Kokinis as GM.
The Kokinis issue has faded from the public spotlight but it might be important to Homgren.
Holmgren knows that Mangini wanted ALL the power and that's why he chose Kokinis. When Kokinis didn't like that he was let go.
Does Holmgren think a coach who demanded ALL the power will now be subservient to him, his choice of GM, the choices of the GM, and Holmgren's demand for a certain style of play? I'd say Holmgren probably thinks the answer is "no" and has already indicated that he's made up his mind by referring to the generic "our coach" and giving Lerner enough of a heads up to distance himself from Mangini on game day.
I've said all along that Mangini deserves credit for disassembling the team and leaving the next coach with a solid foundation. He's got no one to blame but himself if he's not the chosen coach to build that foundation. If he had done his job well Holmgren wouldn't be here.
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Thank goodness there's finally some agreement with Pluto around here that everyone on the coaching staff is a long shot to return.
Aside from that I'd say Pluto does a pretty good job finding some of the bright spots - and I don't think anyone would suggest that EVERYTHING Mangini has done was without some good intentions or was outright wrong.
Is the team more disciplined than under Romeo? Yup. How could it not be?
But discipline and respect go hand in hand - and coaches need to earn their respect before demanding discipline. Did Mangini go about things the right way? I'd bet even Mangini would admit numerous mis-steps in that regard and would acknowledge that one only gets one chance to make a first impression with key team members. But is the discipline improved over Romeo? Yup - you have to give that to Mangini.
As far as some of the other points, yes, no points should be taken away from beating the worst teams in the NFL. I would agree with the various Power Rankings that have the Browns around 28 or so. That's not a huge thing to be proud of but it's better than being 32 like they were earlier in the season.
On WaterBottle Gate I think an objective mind needs to acknowledge the middle ground. Was Edwards a douche who needed a message sent? Yup.
Is the former PR Intern really surprised that a $1700 fine for not paying for a bottle of water blew up in his face and helped cement the impresssion that he was a coach who demanded discipline before earning the respect of his team? Is the former PR Intern surprised that a mandatory/voluntary bus trip to Hartford while he took a plane blew up in his face? He shouldn't be. He made those decisions and should have forseen the PR consequences.
Was the demolition of the Browns Mural taken out of context? Maybe - maybe not.... but to this day I can't seem to get a straight answer from anyone about the "new more visible location" of the Mural - no one seems to know where it is, and that doesn't strike me as more visible. My guess is that it really WAS demolished and no one wants to say anything about that right now.
Giving Mangini credit for keeping the team under the salary cap is idiotic however - there's no choice in the matter. And Mangini needs to own his choice of Kokinis as GM.
The Kokinis issue has faded from the public spotlight but it might be important to Homgren.
Holmgren knows that Mangini wanted ALL the power and that's why he chose Kokinis. When Kokinis didn't like that he was let go.
Does Holmgren think a coach who demanded ALL the power will now be subservient to him, his choice of GM, the choices of the GM, and Holmgren's demand for a certain style of play? I'd say Holmgren probably thinks the answer is "no" and has already indicated that he's made up his mind by referring to the generic "our coach" and giving Lerner enough of a heads up to distance himself from Mangini on game day.
I've said all along that Mangini deserves credit for disassembling the team and leaving the next coach with a solid foundation. He's got no one to blame but himself if he's not the chosen coach to build that foundation. If he had done his job well Holmgren wouldn't be here.
Thank goodness there's finally some agreement with Pluto around here that everyone on the coaching staff is a long shot to return.
Aside from that I'd say Pluto does a pretty good job finding some of the bright spots - and I don't think anyone would suggest that EVERYTHING Mangini has done was without some good intentions or was outright wrong.
Is the team more disciplined than under Romeo? Yup. How could it not be?
But discipline and respect go hand in hand - and coaches need to earn their respect before demanding discipline. Did Mangini go about things the right way? I'd bet even Mangini would admit numerous mis-steps in that regard and would acknowledge that one only gets one chance to make a first impression with key team members. But is the discipline improved over Romeo? Yup - you have to give that to Mangini.
As far as some of the other points, yes, no points should be taken away from beating the worst teams in the NFL. I would agree with the various Power Rankings that have the Browns around 28 or so. That's not a huge thing to be proud of but it's better than being 32 like they were earlier in the season.
On WaterBottle Gate I think an objective mind needs to acknowledge the middle ground. Was Edwards a douche who needed a message sent? Yup.
Is the former PR Intern really surprised that a $1700 fine for not paying for a bottle of water blew up in his face and helped cement the impresssion that he was a coach who demanded discipline before earning the respect of his team? Is the former PR Intern surprised that a mandatory/voluntary bus trip to Hartford while he took a plane blew up in his face? He shouldn't be. He made those decisions and should have forseen the PR consequences.
Was the demolition of the Browns Mural taken out of context? Maybe - maybe not.... but to this day I can't seem to get a straight answer from anyone about the "new more visible location" of the Mural - no one seems to know where it is, and that doesn't strike me as more visible. My guess is that it really WAS demolished and no one wants to say anything about that right now.
Giving Mangini credit for keeping the team under the salary cap is idiotic however - there's no choice in the matter. And Mangini needs to own his choice of Kokinis as GM.
The Kokinis issue has faded from the public spotlight but it might be important to Homgren.
Holmgren knows that Mangini wanted ALL the power and that's why he chose Kokinis. When Kokinis didn't like that he was let go.
Does Holmgren think a coach who demanded ALL the power will now be subservient to him, his choice of GM, the choices of the GM, and Holmgren's demand for a certain style of play? I'd say Holmgren probably thinks the answer is "no" and has already indicated that he's made up his mind by referring to the generic "our coach" and giving Lerner enough of a heads up to distance himself from Mangini on game day.
I've said all along that Mangini deserves credit for disassembling the team and leaving the next coach with a solid foundation. He's got no one to blame but himself if he's not the chosen coach to build that foundation. If he had done his job well Holmgren wouldn't be here.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.
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does anybody else get the feeling that it is only the media that is manufacturing stories of how holmgren is goin to fire mangini ?
does anybody else get the feeling that it is only the media that is manufacturing stories of how holmgren is goin to fire mangini ?
100% agree. Sure with a new President there is going to be speculation of the HC getting fired but I really think it's mainly the media that is fueling this.
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Thank goodness there's finally some agreement with Pluto around here that everyone on the coaching staff is a long shot to return.
Aside from that I'd say Pluto does a pretty good job finding some of the bright spots - and I don't think anyone would suggest that EVERYTHING Mangini has done was without some good intentions or was outright wrong.
Is the team more disciplined than under Romeo? Yup. How could it not be?
But discipline and respect go hand in hand - and coaches need to earn their respect before demanding discipline. Did Mangini go about things the right way? I'd bet even Mangini would admit numerous mis-steps in that regard and would acknowledge that one only gets one chance to make a first impression with key team members. But is the discipline improved over Romeo? Yup - you have to give that to Mangini.
As far as some of the other points, yes, no points should be taken away from beating the worst teams in the NFL. I would agree with the various Power Rankings that have the Browns around 28 or so. That's not a huge thing to be proud of but it's better than being 32 like they were earlier in the season.
On WaterBottle Gate I think an objective mind needs to acknowledge the middle ground. Was Edwards a douche who needed a message sent? Yup.
Is the former PR Intern really surprised that a $1700 fine for not paying for a bottle of water blew up in his face and helped cement the impresssion that he was a coach who demanded discipline before earning the respect of his team? Is the former PR Intern surprised that a mandatory/voluntary bus trip to Hartford while he took a plane blew up in his face? He shouldn't be. He made those decisions and should have forseen the PR consequences.
Was the demolition of the Browns Mural taken out of context? Maybe - maybe not.... but to this day I can't seem to get a straight answer from anyone about the "new more visible location" of the Mural - no one seems to know where it is, and that doesn't strike me as more visible. My guess is that it really WAS demolished and no one wants to say anything about that right now.
Giving Mangini credit for keeping the team under the salary cap is idiotic however - there's no choice in the matter. And Mangini needs to own his choice of Kokinis as GM.
The Kokinis issue has faded from the public spotlight but it might be important to Homgren.
Holmgren knows that Mangini wanted ALL the power and that's why he chose Kokinis. When Kokinis didn't like that he was let go.
Does Holmgren think a coach who demanded ALL the power will now be subservient to him, his choice of GM, the choices of the GM, and Holmgren's demand for a certain style of play? I'd say Holmgren probably thinks the answer is "no" and has already indicated that he's made up his mind by referring to the generic "our coach" and giving Lerner enough of a heads up to distance himself from Mangini on game day.
I've said all along that Mangini deserves credit for disassembling the team and leaving the next coach with a solid foundation. He's got no one to blame but himself if he's not the chosen coach to build that foundation. If he had done his job well Holmgren wouldn't be here.
Thank goodness there's finally some agreement with Pluto around here that everyone on the coaching staff is a long shot to return.
Maybe I have missed somebody, but I don't recall anyone who ever said Mangini was a lock to return.
I like what Mangini is doing, but I certainly understand his chances of staying are at best 50/50
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Thank goodness there's finally some agreement with Pluto around here that everyone on the coaching staff is a long shot to return.
Maybe I have missed somebody, but I don't recall anyone who ever said Mangini was a lock to return.
I like what Mangini is doing, but I certainly understand his chances of staying are at best 50/50
Maybe I have missed somebody, but I don't recall anyone who ever said Mangini was a lock to return.
I like what Mangini is doing, but I certainly understand his chances of staying are at best 50/50
I'm not sure that Terry Pluto meant 50/50 when he said "a long shot". I think people are a little bit ramped up after a few wins though and are seeing the season through rose colored glasses as the meaningless games are won.
Rattle off 4 wins at the beginning of the season and I think we're talking very different prospects for Mangini. Win just the last 4 or so and you're a "long-shot" at returning. I think Mangini understands this as well as anyone.
But overall Pluto's right - not everything Mangini has done has been bad and even when he screwed up he certainly had the best of intentions.
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Maybe I have missed somebody, but I don't recall anyone who ever said Mangini was a lock to return.
I like what Mangini is doing, but I certainly understand his chances of staying are at best 50/50
I'm not sure that Terry Pluto meant 50/50 when he said "a long shot". I think people are a little bit ramped up after a few wins though and are seeing the season through rose colored glasses as the meaningless games are won.
Rattle off 4 wins at the beginning of the season and I think we're talking very different prospects for Mangini. Win just the last 4 or so and you're a "long-shot" at returning. I think Mangini understands this as well as anyone.
But overall Pluto's right - not everything Mangini has done has been bad and even when he screwed up he certainly had the best of intentions.
I'm not sure that Terry Pluto meant 50/50 when he said "a long shot". I think people are a little bit ramped up after a few wins though and are seeing the season through rose colored glasses as the meaningless games are won.
Rattle off 4 wins at the beginning of the season and I think we're talking very different prospects for Mangini. Win just the last 4 or so and you're a "long-shot" at returning. I think Mangini understands this as well as anyone.
But overall Pluto's right - not everything Mangini has done has been bad and even when he screwed up he certainly had the best of intentions.
Peter King, is that you?
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I'm not sure that Terry Pluto meant 50/50 when he said "a long shot"
I know he meant longer, but the alternatives aren't endless, so I just peg the top end at 50/50.
The reality is he probably only has a 20-30% shot at retaining the job.
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does anybody else get the feeling that it is only the media that is manufacturing stories of how holmgren is goin to fire mangini ?
100% agree. Sure with a new President there is going to be speculation of the HC getting fired but I really think it's mainly the media that is fueling this.
100% agree. Sure with a new President there is going to be speculation of the HC getting fired but I really think it's mainly the media that is fueling this.
The only two national media members who I think are deserving of "respect" are John Clayton and Chris Mortenson. Clayton said Mangini is 100% gone, while Mort said it isn't nearly that cut and dry and recent developments indicate that he may very well stay.
Stay away from muckrakers like Grossi and any local radio hosts who discuss the Browns because a) they either aren't really clued into the behind the scenes moves, or
they don't actually watch the games and brush off the 3 game winning streak to close the season as worthless and meaningless (gee it sure is pointless to win games isn't it? i guess the team should have rolled over and gone 1-15 if they truly hated Mangini that much).Holmgren has a tough decision to make, and I'm hoping he and Mangini can work together in the future and continue the rebuilding process we've seen this year. There is literally no point in starting all over again one year after tearing everything apart. Remember, we gave Romeo and Savage 4 years and what did it get us? We traded Edwards and Winslow and we have the exact same record as we did last year. We cut 26 guys from last years roster and 3 made it to other teams. Mangini had nothing to work with. Sure he made some mistakes, such as the QB competition -- I'm sure even he would admit he should have picked a starter in training camp and gone from there. However, things have changed dramatically since the bye week and dropping dead weight like Lewis and relegating Royal to blocking duties. Keep the season in perspective. A few plays here and there and we beat the Bengals, Chargers, and Lions and we're sitting at 7-8 right now just like that, and are we still having the anti-Mangini conversations?
Look at the teams we have beaten:
Bills - bad team, but so were we. So bad in fact that though we won the game 6-3 our win was basically never in question.
Steelers - a tough team with some injuries, but that doesn't ruin the fact that our defense dismantled their team for 60 minutes and our run game dropped a bomb on what is usually a team who can stop the run.
Kansas City - they may be bad but they also beat the defending Super Bowl champions, and we put up historic numbers on them on a day when our defense coulnd't get their heads on straight.
Oakland - They've beaten the Steelers, Eagles, and a few other tough playoff teams and we made them look like a highschool squad.
It's no secret that we were god awful on offense at the beginning of the year, but that's what happens when you install a new system with unproven talent. Look at our season on a game-by-game basis and not as a whole and the improvements are undeniable.
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Certainly different fans have their different takes on many of Mangnini's moves.... was his handling of the QB situation "Mangenius" (or "Mangenious" as some like to spell it) or "MangIdiot"... Same with his earlier decision not to start Harrison at RB... decision to have rookies take a mandotory volunatary bus ride to CT while he hopped a flight etc etc...
Holmgren will look at those issues but I think the deciding factor for Mangini is the Kokinis issue
Mangini hand-picked Kokinis and there seems to be some disagreement over whether Kokinis truly WAS the GM.
It seems apparent that Mangini wanted full and complete control as the coach and defacto GM with all final decisions resting with him and not the GM.
NOW - with Holmgren as President and a yet to be named GM coming in, does Holmgren think that Mangini will suddenly willingly submit to TWO people with final say over him? Or will Holmgren recognize that Mangini's desire to have all the power and control might not fit with a new regime that is going to do things differently, with a true GM and Team President with authority over the coach?
That may be the deciding factor against Mangini.
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Certainly different fans have their different takes on many of Mangnini's moves.... was his handling of the QB situation "Mangenius" (or "Mangenious" as some like to spell it) or "MangIdiot"... Same with his earlier decision not to start Harrison at RB... decision to have rookies take a mandotory volunatary bus ride to CT while he hopped a flight etc etc...
Holmgren will look at those issues but I think the deciding factor for Mangini is the Kokinis issue
Mangini hand-picked Kokinis and there seems to be some disagreement over whether Kokinis truly WAS the GM.
It seems apparent that Mangini wanted full and complete control as the coach and defacto GM with all final decisions resting with him and not the GM.
NOW - with Holmgren as President and a yet to be named GM coming in, does Holmgren think that Mangini will suddenly willingly submit to TWO people with final say over him? Or will Holmgren recognize that Mangini's desire to have all the power and control might not fit with a new regime that is going to do things differently, with a true GM and Team President with authority over the coach?
That may be the deciding factor against Mangini.
Certainly different fans have their different takes on many of Mangnini's moves.... was his handling of the QB situation "Mangenius" (or "Mangenious" as some like to spell it) or "MangIdiot"... Same with his earlier decision not to start Harrison at RB... decision to have rookies take a mandotory volunatary bus ride to CT while he hopped a flight etc etc...
Holmgren will look at those issues but I think the deciding factor for Mangini is the Kokinis issue
Mangini hand-picked Kokinis and there seems to be some disagreement over whether Kokinis truly WAS the GM.
It seems apparent that Mangini wanted full and complete control as the coach and defacto GM with all final decisions resting with him and not the GM.
NOW - with Holmgren as President and a yet to be named GM coming in, does Holmgren think that Mangini will suddenly willingly submit to TWO people with final say over him? Or will Holmgren recognize that Mangini's desire to have all the power and control might not fit with a new regime that is going to do things differently, with a true GM and Team President with authority over the coach?
That may be the deciding factor against Mangini.
not really. See with kokinis, since he was a hand picked no show guy, Mangini can "roll over" him. In Holmgren you have a tough personality whom Mangini should report to. Anyone with an iota of intelligence will know that if u go against ur boss then u are out and im sure Mangini will try his best to be in Holmgrens good books. In effect, If Mangini shows improvements and willingness I think the Browns will have a kick ass team that can genuinely take the fight to the Steelers.
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100% agree. Sure with a new President there is going to be speculation of the HC getting fired but I really think it's mainly the media that is fueling this.
The only two national media members who I think are deserving of "respect" are John Clayton and Chris Mortenson. Clayton said Mangini is 100% gone, while Mort said it isn't nearly that cut and dry and recent developments indicate that he may very well stay.
Stay away from muckrakers like Grossi and any local radio hosts who discuss the Browns because a) they either aren't really clued into the behind the scenes moves, or
they don't actually watch the games and brush off the 3 game winning streak to close the season as worthless and meaningless (gee it sure is pointless to win games isn't it? i guess the team should have rolled over and gone 1-15 if they truly hated Mangini that much).Holmgren has a tough decision to make, and I'm hoping he and Mangini can work together in the future and continue the rebuilding process we've seen this year. There is literally no point in starting all over again one year after tearing everything apart. Remember, we gave Romeo and Savage 4 years and what did it get us? We traded Edwards and Winslow and we have the exact same record as we did last year. We cut 26 guys from last years roster and 3 made it to other teams. Mangini had nothing to work with. Sure he made some mistakes, such as the QB competition -- I'm sure even he would admit he should have picked a starter in training camp and gone from there. However, things have changed dramatically since the bye week and dropping dead weight like Lewis and relegating Royal to blocking duties. Keep the season in perspective. A few plays here and there and we beat the Bengals, Chargers, and Lions and we're sitting at 7-8 right now just like that, and are we still having the anti-Mangini conversations?
Look at the teams we have beaten:
Bills - bad team, but so were we. So bad in fact that though we won the game 6-3 our win was basically never in question.
Steelers - a tough team with some injuries, but that doesn't ruin the fact that our defense dismantled their team for 60 minutes and our run game dropped a bomb on what is usually a team who can stop the run.
Kansas City - they may be bad but they also beat the defending Super Bowl champions, and we put up historic numbers on them on a day when our defense coulnd't get their heads on straight.
Oakland - They've beaten the Steelers, Eagles, and a few other tough playoff teams and we made them look like a highschool squad.
It's no secret that we were god awful on offense at the beginning of the year, but that's what happens when you install a new system with unproven talent. Look at our season on a game-by-game basis and not as a whole and the improvements are undeniable.
Look at the teams we have beaten:
Bills - bad team, but so were we. So bad in fact that though we won the game 6-3 our win was basically never in question.
Steelers - a tough team with some injuries, but that doesn't ruin the fact that our defense dismantled their team for 60 minutes and our run game dropped a bomb on what is usually a team who can stop the run.
Kansas City - they may be bad but they also beat the defending Super Bowl champions, and we put up historic numbers on them on a day when our defense coulnd't get their heads on straight.
Oakland - They've beaten the Steelers, Eagles, and a few other tough playoff teams and we made them look like a highschool squad.
It's no secret that we were god awful on offense at the beginning of the year, but that's what happens when you install a new system with unproven talent. Look at our season on a game-by-game basis and not as a whole and the improvements are undeniable.
More important that WHO we beat is HOW we beat them.
Buffalo - Out -willed them
Steelers - Out schemed them
KC - Outscored them
Oakland - Out-played them/beat dey ass!!! Also, look at how we did it. Notice the team progression. Starts with trying hard, then out-smarting them, followed by out-performing them, finally an all around ass wooping in all phases of the game. EXCITING!!
This is important because bad teams win a few games by chance or luck. GOOD teams find ways to win all the time. So far, we have found 4 different ways to win. Now, I'm not saying we're good, we're not there yet, but this is more encouraging than 2007 when we all had the sense that we were getting lucky. By winning 4 games in 4 different ways including 3 in a row, you can see how this new coaching staff has put a plan in place and how its coming along. This is a long-term vision and the first sign that it is a good one is 4 wins, 4 different ways. Not one of which was luck. This team now is at the point where we have 55 guys who know what is going on. That's 55 potential tutors. Granted, only about 30 of them will remain but that's 30 core players. We are at the point now where, all we need to do is infuse 2 or 3 talented players on each side of the ball and we can play with anybody. And we don't need an Adrian Peterson or Patrick Willis either. We can do this with just a Thomas Jones and a.......Matt Roth! However, I believe a Mangini/Holmgren war-room duo can produce excellent results. If Holmgren is going to be involved that is.
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Certainly different fans have their different takes on many of Mangnini's moves.... was his handling of the QB situation "Mangenius" (or "Mangenious" as some like to spell it) or "MangIdiot"... Same with his earlier decision not to start Harrison at RB... decision to have rookies take a mandotory volunatary bus ride to CT while he hopped a flight etc etc...
Holmgren will look at those issues but I think the deciding factor for Mangini is the Kokinis issue
Mangini hand-picked Kokinis and there seems to be some disagreement over whether Kokinis truly WAS the GM.
It seems apparent that Mangini wanted full and complete control as the coach and defacto GM with all final decisions resting with him and not the GM.
NOW - with Holmgren as President and a yet to be named GM coming in, does Holmgren think that Mangini will suddenly willingly submit to TWO people with final say over him? Or will Holmgren recognize that Mangini's desire to have all the power and control might not fit with a new regime that is going to do things differently, with a true GM and Team President with authority over the coach?
That may be the deciding factor against Mangini.
Certainly different fans have their different takes on many of Mangnini's moves.... was his handling of the QB situation "Mangenius" (or "Mangenious" as some like to spell it) or "MangIdiot"... Same with his earlier decision not to start Harrison at RB... decision to have rookies take a mandotory volunatary bus ride to CT while he hopped a flight etc etc...
Holmgren will look at those issues but I think the deciding factor for Mangini is the Kokinis issue
Mangini hand-picked Kokinis and there seems to be some disagreement over whether Kokinis truly WAS the GM.
It seems apparent that Mangini wanted full and complete control as the coach and defacto GM with all final decisions resting with him and not the GM.
NOW - with Holmgren as President and a yet to be named GM coming in, does Holmgren think that Mangini will suddenly willingly submit to TWO people with final say over him? Or will Holmgren recognize that Mangini's desire to have all the power and control might not fit with a new regime that is going to do things differently, with a true GM and Team President with authority over the coach?
That may be the deciding factor against Mangini.
You're acting like Mangini has never worked for anybody before. Yes he had complete control this year but that was necessary. Now, he has the culture and attitude changed here and he can concentrate on coaching. The job no longer requires full control. So, I don't see him working for Holmgren being a problem. I mean, the guy worked under Parcells!! Not to mention that Mangini has shown that he respects and admires intelligent football people. Holmgren should fit that mold perfectly. This shouldn't be a problem at all. However, if Mangini shits the bed next year, you'll see Holmgren coaching once he gets his front office in capable hands.
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Certainly different fans have their different takes on many of Mangnini's moves.... was his handling of the QB situation "Mangenius" (or "Mangenious" as some like to spell it) or "MangIdiot"... Same with his earlier decision not to start Harrison at RB... decision to have rookies take a mandotory volunatary bus ride to CT while he hopped a flight etc etc...
Holmgren will look at those issues but I think the deciding factor for Mangini is the Kokinis issue
Mangini hand-picked Kokinis and there seems to be some disagreement over whether Kokinis truly WAS the GM.
It seems apparent that Mangini wanted full and complete control as the coach and defacto GM with all final decisions resting with him and not the GM.
NOW - with Holmgren as President and a yet to be named GM coming in, does Holmgren think that Mangini will suddenly willingly submit to TWO people with final say over him? Or will Holmgren recognize that Mangini's desire to have all the power and control might not fit with a new regime that is going to do things differently, with a true GM and Team President with authority over the coach?
That may be the deciding factor against Mangini.
You're acting like Mangini has never worked for anybody before. Yes he had complete control this year but that was necessary. Now, he has the culture and attitude changed here and he can concentrate on coaching. The job no longer requires full control. So, I don't see him working for Holmgren being a problem. I mean, the guy worked under Parcells!! Not to mention that Mangini has shown that he respects and admires intelligent football people. Holmgren should fit that mold perfectly. This shouldn't be a problem at all. However, if Mangini shits the bed next year, you'll see Holmgren coaching once he gets his front office in capable hands.
You're acting like Mangini has never worked for anybody before. Yes he had complete control this year but that was necessary. Now, he has the culture and attitude changed here and he can concentrate on coaching. The job no longer requires full control. So, I don't see him working for Holmgren being a problem. I mean, the guy worked under Parcells!! Not to mention that Mangini has shown that he respects and admires intelligent football people. Holmgren should fit that mold perfectly. This shouldn't be a problem at all. However, if Mangini shits the bed next year, you'll see Holmgren coaching once he gets his front office in capable hands.
Mangini might actually want to hope that Holmgren doesn't look too closely at his last 2 employers. He was of course fired from the Jets and before that, demoted by Belichick, who took Mangini's play calling rights away from him but let him keep the title "Defensive Coordinator"
But I don't think Kokinis would agree that Mangini was "forced" to be the GM... he took the job even though Kokinis feels he was duped when they told him (and the Ravens) that he would have authority as the GM. Most think that was Mangini's intent all along, don't they?
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You're acting like Mangini has never worked for anybody before. Yes he had complete control this year but that was necessary. Now, he has the culture and attitude changed here and he can concentrate on coaching. The job no longer requires full control. So, I don't see him working for Holmgren being a problem. I mean, the guy worked under Parcells!! Not to mention that Mangini has shown that he respects and admires intelligent football people. Holmgren should fit that mold perfectly. This shouldn't be a problem at all. However, if Mangini shits the bed next year, you'll see Holmgren coaching once he gets his front office in capable hands.
Mangini might actually want to hope that Holmgren doesn't look too closely at his last 2 employers. He was of course fired from the Jets and before that, demoted by Belichick, who took Mangini's play calling rights away from him but let him keep the title "Defensive Coordinator"
But I don't think Kokinis would agree that Mangini was "forced" to be the GM... he took the job even though Kokinis feels he was duped when they told him (and the Ravens) that he would have authority as the GM. Most think that was Mangini's intent all along, don't they?
Mangini might actually want to hope that Holmgren doesn't look too closely at his last 2 employers. He was of course fired from the Jets and before that, demoted by Belichick, who took Mangini's play calling rights away from him but let him keep the title "Defensive Coordinator"
But I don't think Kokinis would agree that Mangini was "forced" to be the GM... he took the job even though Kokinis feels he was duped when they told him (and the Ravens) that he would have authority as the GM. Most think that was Mangini's intent all along, don't they?
He was never demoted by Belichik. If he was, do you think anyone would have looked at him as a serious head coacing subject?
He was fired by the Jets because of Favre's implosion due to a covered up injury.
Who cares about Kokinis? Since his firing we've made our best FA moves (Roth, Moore, Benard) so I doubt he was contributing much.
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