So Who Starts Next Week?
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Sev,
My point is your use of Quinn's failure as some form of justification for DA is flawed. Quinn's a 3rd time starter and he played poorly. A seasoned QB, a ProBowl QB, should have gotten more from the team yesterday. At least, that should be the expectation. After all, if a guy starting his third game is as good as a Pro Bowl starter on his worst day....
So, what we know is that DA did about the same as Quinn on a day where both looked bad. That's vindication for DA how?
For Quinn, he remains largely an unknown. More known that three weeks ago, but hardly the body of work necessary to have a decent read on his ceiling.
As for the non-existant running game you reference, that wasn't the case yesterday. The staff simply decided to abandon the run for some reason.
A seasoned QB, a ProBowl QB, should have gotten more from the team yesterday.
Exactly.
So why is Quinn playing?
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Exactly.
So why is Quinn playing?
Well, seeing as how the pro-bowl QB actually had a LOWER rating than the 3 game starter...I think that question is answered. And before you go saying how he was in a pass only situation...he took over at the end of the 3rd Q and turned the ball over 2x...so quit whining!!! A GOOD QB would have at least done SOMETHING!
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Exactly.
So why is Quinn playing?
You've really lost a step. You're not only boring but dense.
Your phone call to RAC yesterday obviously got through and he inserted DA at your bidding. (You know, DA being a Pro Bowler and all.)
DA proceeded to post a lower passer rating than the guy he replaced.
That's why Quinn is playing.
You are getting good at answering your own questions at least. Must be hard having all those voices in your head at once.
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Exactly.
So why is Quinn playing?
You've really lost a step. You're not only boring but dense.
Your phone call to RAC yesterday obviously got through and he inserted DA at your bidding. (You know, DA being a Pro Bowler and all.)
DA proceeded to post a lower passer rating than the guy he replaced.
That's why Quinn is playing.
You are getting good at answering your own questions at least. Must be hard having all those voices in your head at once.
DA proceeded to post a lower passer rating than the guy he replaced.
That's why Quinn is playing.
Deny it all you want but you know that if Anderson had gotten snaps in practice and started the game then the Browns would have won.
This is after all a team that Anderson beat last year 27-17.
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the kid has played 3 pro games. give him a break. ask any pro what the difference is between division one and pros and they will tell you the speed of the game. it takes time. hes gonna make mistakes. whats da's excuse for playing like crap. after 20 something starts he should know the game by now.
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Deny it all you want but you know that if Anderson had gotten snaps in practice and started the game then the Browns would have won.
This is after all a team that Anderson beat last year 27-17.
Snaps in practice? The guy's had a year+ worth of snaps with the guys on the field. You're pulling the rusty card after a couple of weeks? Seriously? That's your excuse?
Did you actually watch him stumbling around back there before he rocketed the ball of Wright's back side? Did you actually watch his painfull attempt to get the ball to Lewis? Did you see him throw the laser on a short in to BE?
Oh, and as we know, starting DA against an inferior team is a recipe for a guaranteed victory. Sorta like last year's Cincy game? Maybe Oakland earlier in that year?
I will say this. DA came in throwing some good looking passes yesterday. The guy throws a great looking ball.
However, the results are what they are. His lack of athleticism really hurts him. (Fumble because he couldn't get there and his awful footwork on the INT.) His horrendous short passing (too hard and too often off target) really hurt him. And finally, when things don't go perfectly (i.e., BE's dropped TD), DA goes down with the ship.
We need more from the QB position than what DA brings. If yesterday turns out to be a common outcome with Quinn, then we're back in the market for a QB. Nothing has changed: a 3rd time starter struggled and the guy he replaced struggled in relief. Result? See more Quinn because we already know DA.
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Deny it all you want but you know that if Anderson had gotten snaps in practice and started the game then the Browns would have won.
This is after all a team that Anderson beat last year 27-17.
Snaps in practice? The guy's had a year+ worth of snaps with the guys on the field. You're pulling the rusty card after a couple of weeks? Seriously? That's your excuse?
Did you actually watch him stumbling around back there before he rocketed the ball of Wright's back side? Did you actually watch his painfull attempt to get the ball to Lewis? Did you see him throw the laser on a short in to BE?
Oh, and as we know, starting DA against an inferior team is a recipe for a guaranteed victory. Sorta like last year's Cincy game? Maybe Oakland earlier in that year?
I will say this. DA came in throwing some good looking passes yesterday. The guy throws a great looking ball.
However, the results are what they are. His lack of athleticism really hurts him. (Fumble because he couldn't get there and his awful footwork on the INT.) His horrendous short passing (too hard and too often off target) really hurt him. And finally, when things don't go perfectly (i.e., BE's dropped TD), DA goes down with the ship.
We need more from the QB position than what DA brings. If yesterday turns out to be a common outcome with Quinn, then we're back in the market for a QB. Nothing has changed: a 3rd time starter struggled and the guy he replaced struggled in relief. Result? See more Quinn because we already know DA.
Did you see him throw the laser on a short in to BE?
You mean the one that bounced off of Braylon's hands?
Spare me BQ Luver. You've been in here pounding the O-line for not picking up the blitz when BQ plays and excusing his lame ducks that he throws up because of the blitz.
Then Anderson gets an unblocked blitzer up the middle, puts one on the money to the hot receiver, and you bitch because you think he threw it too hard.
Gay.
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DA proceeded to post a lower passer rating than the guy he replaced.
That's why Quinn is playing.
Deny it all you want but you know that if Anderson had gotten snaps in practice and started the game then the Browns would have won.
This is after all a team that Anderson beat last year 27-17.
Deny it all you want but you know that if Anderson had gotten snaps in practice and started the game then the Browns would have won.
This is after all a team that Anderson beat last year 27-17.
Up until midway through this season, I was a DA supporter as well. But, Lum, deep in your heart....you have to know that DA is not a franchise QB and never will be. He's had enough time to prove that. Is BQ? Don't know. Do I hope he is? Absolultely. Because that means we waisted a draft pick and it will be another setback in that position.
I was hoping DA would come in yesterdays game and light a fire under the offenses ass. But it turned out to be more of the same.
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You mean the one that bounced off of Braylon's hands?
Spare me BQ Luver. You've been in here pounding the O-line for not picking up the blitz when BQ plays and excusing his lame ducks that he throws up because of the blitz.
Then Anderson gets an unblocked blitzer up the middle, puts one on the money to the hot receiver, and you bitch because you think he threw it too hard.
Gay.
Wrong play. This was the one that Edwards knocked down with one hand because it was too far in front of him to get 2 on. It was a 3 step drop and DA had time to deliver the ball.
Also, no need to get hostile. You're awfully fragile.
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Greythan I can see how my post could be construed as a justification for DA. It really is not meant that way.
In a small sample of three games is not enough to examine what BQ may or may not be, he is not trending well but that can reverse. I am using Quinns failure to illustrate a much deeper flaw in our SYSTEM that has greatly affected TWO qbs now.
If BQ can deliver on midrange precision throws that will loosen the tight short coverage, the problem BQ faces that DA did also was CONSISTENCY with other contributing skill players. Outside of Winslow who BQ locks on just like DA did for one simple reason..... He consistently actually delivers. NO ONE ELSE DOES in the WR corps.
I am not saying our running game was not working last game more of how and often it was utilized by Chud, Harrison was used more often and early and Jamal is great in bursts.
Outside of Winslow BQ or DA has: BE........ Stallworth(recently for BQ not much for DA), steptoe, sanders, cribbs. Jamal numbers are WAY down and Harrison under utilized. That is not a recipe for success for any QB.
The hyper criticism of DA imho was not really accurate and now with Quinn who I think is actually more efficient in terms of comp ratings now tanking only further illustrates to me the same premise I had this entire season. When I was accused of being and apologist for DA because I talked about lack of consistent skill players and predictable Play calling from Chud along with decreased rushing contribution.
Remember the "cockpit" theory? Or locking onto and forcing it to Winslow to often, poor decsions making not route running or playcalling?
DA is not perfect by a mile but this BQ debacle only strengthens the systematic skill player plus oc play calling and rushing game decrease failure. I dont really blame BQ yesterday for much except for one pick. Stallworth is a bit mystifying in his disapperance or that might be Quinn not looking for him.
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Sev, its comments like this that make it hard to give credence to your position.
First:
In a small sample of three games is not enough to examine what BQ may or may not be
Then:
The hyper criticism of DA imho was not really accurate and now with Quinn who I think is actually more efficient in terms of comp ratings now tanking only further illustrates to me the same premise I had this entire season.
DA is not perfect by a mile but this BQ debacle only strengthens
The rest of your post is based upon the following premise:
1) Quinn's results have been poor; therefore
2) Holding DA accountable for his results is faulty: its not DA its the supporting cast.
You can't have it both ways.
If you want to use Quinn's results to compare to DA then you are, in fact, acknowledging your expectations for a fourth year player with 25 starts is the same for a second year player in his third starts. Potentially worse, is the assumption that Quinn's play these last two weeks is typical when it may simply be part of the new QB learning process.
After all, if the cockpit is as flawed as you say, then you should compare Quinn's third start to DA's where DA threw 0 TD's and 4 INT's.
Point is, good QB'ing should be getting more out of this team. Will Quinn be the answer? Not sure. I feel that we know DA isn't.
Finally, the cockpit has some problems. No argument there. I still don't think its the worst cockpit in the league and yet that's where our starting QB rating dwells.
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greythan you are cutting and pasting only half of the comments instead of the premise that is explicity explained constantly. A flawed system that is not beneficial for QB production.. for EITHER qb.
You cut our only half statements. I am not having it both ways reread the post. I am using BQ problems to illustrate the same systematic failure that is greatly affecting either QB.
You cant go back and compare singular games against different opponents with different contributing players from one or two years ago to find an average fair mean.
The arguments you and others used to criticize DA and anyone who was pointing to other contributing factors dont seem to hold up much water right now considering what is happening to BQ. The QB can only work with what they have and what and how the coaches gameplan and call plays.
I think BQ is suffering from the exact same problems DA did and his numbers are reflecting that. It is worse because of the level of competitiion we are playing defensively is poor also so it only further illustrates our systematic failure.
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You cut our only half statements. I am not having it both ways reread the post. I am using BQ problems to illustrate the same systematic failure that is greatly affecting either QB.
I'll try to be concise.
What I am saying is that you should NOT use BQ problems to illustrate some justification for DA's poor play. Why? Because a) the comparative sample size is way too small (3 starts and you said this yourself, yet go on to use the information) and
we have no idea if this is Quinn's worst or is truly indicative of his ability.Yet, you keep trying to use Quinn's last 2 games as evidence to support your claim which seems to be DA should not be held accountable for his play.
Sorry if I'm not following. Really.
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Well I don't have alot to add because I agree with Sev and Grey on this.
Only thing I would say is that when comparing starts I do not think you can compare 2006 with 2008 because of the many changes in the team that were made in 2007. If you want to compare I would compare with 2007 starts when DA had 3 starts with a horrible team. Also, though BQ has not started until now he has been in the system as long as DA has and if you listen to some on this board even longer because it is similar to the one he used in college.
My real issue is that people think that a year and half of starting makes for a seasoned veteran. I am not judging BQ on 3 games. He should stay the starter, no debate.
I think Sevs point is not that DA is blameless but that this team has many issues that make it difficult for the QB. That the switch of QBs did nothing to change the real issues of the team. That BQ got to play weak defenses and was still plagued by some of the issues that plagued DA. Putting Da in as starter would not solve these issues. Leave BQ in and see if he can grow.
I am tired of seeing the team change QBs every year. Leave BQ in so that you at least have some sample size to make an off season judgement with.
Good posts on this subject, thanks grey, wpb and sev.
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thanks Cmac that is a pretty good summary. Greythan and I have a bit of history on this subject so posts tend to stray.
Grey I want Quinn to play out the rest of the season and thought him being pulled was silly, I suppose I can understand RAC on wanting to win right now to keep chasing but that pretty much was gone after last game.
I happen to think (this might be crazy) we are only about 4 players away from being really, really competitive. Plus or minus a coach or two maybe general manager or owner....
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