College Football News Rated Top QBs for 2010 Draft in August 09
-
McCoy's slide could be steeper than just falling to the 2nd Round. Not being able to participate in the Senior Bowl is going to hurt him; if guys like Pike & Canfield impress, he could fall behind them on teams' draft boards.
A lot of people think McCoy's very good '08 season was due to him spending the offseason locked in the weight room. Coming out of high school, he was a lean 6'1", 180 pound three-star recruit.
To succeed at the next level, he'll need to bulk up some more during his rookie redshirt year, as well as become familiar with an NFL offense. He might be maxed out physically, which is disconcerting because - to be frank - I didn't see an NFL starting QB when I watched him this year.
But if I had to bet on anyone making a Tom Brady-esque transformation into a quality NFL starter, I'd go with someone with intangibles like McCoy's. Even if you don't like his game, there has to be a point at which you buy on Colt McCoy because of those qualities.
For me, that might be at the top of the 3rd round.
-
McCoy's slide could be steeper than just falling to the 2nd Round. Not being able to participate in the Senior Bowl is going to hurt him; if guys like Pike & Canfield impress, he could fall behind them on teams' draft boards.
A lot of people think McCoy's very good '08 season was due to him spending the offseason locked in the weight room. Coming out of high school, he was a lean 6'1", 180 pound three-star recruit.
To succeed at the next level, he'll need to bulk up some more during his rookie redshirt year, as well as become familiar with an NFL offense. He might be maxed out physically, which is disconcerting because - to be frank - I didn't see an NFL starting QB when I watched him this year.
But if I had to bet on anyone making a Tom Brady-esque transformation into a quality NFL starter, I'd go with someone with intangibles like McCoy's. Even if you don't like his game, there has to be a point at which you buy on Colt McCoy because of those qualities.
For me, that might be at the top of the 3rd round.
McCoy's slide could be steeper than just falling to the 2nd Round. Not being able to participate in the Senior Bowl is going to hurt him; if guys like Pike & Canfield impress, he could fall behind them on teams' draft boards.
A lot of people think McCoy's very good '08 season was due to him spending the offseason locked in the weight room. Coming out of high school, he was a lean 6'1", 180 pound three-star recruit.
To succeed at the next level, he'll need to bulk up some more during his rookie redshirt year, as well as become familiar with an NFL offense. He might be maxed out physically, which is disconcerting because - to be frank - I didn't see an NFL starting QB when I watched him this year.
But if I had to bet on anyone making a Tom Brady-esque transformation into a quality NFL starter, I'd go with someone with intangibles like McCoy's. Even if you don't like his game, there has to be a point at which you buy on Colt McCoy because of those qualities.
For me, that might be at the top of the 3rd round.
Good points! That might be a blessing if he slides to round late round 2 - early round 3. He'd be alot tougher to pass on there and we'd already have a pick or 2 to our name.
I always try to tell people forget the Nebraska Game (they still won) and try to think what he did when the game was on the line vrs Ohio State the year before. I don't think McCoy was really blessed with a good running game this year and I wasn't overly impressed with the people he had to throw to. Shipley seems like a better kickoff return guy than WR to me. He's got good straight ahead speed but he's not always fluid in and out of the cuts in the pass routes from what I've seen.
- Tom F.
-
Tony Pike at 15? Sweet maybe we can grab him in the 3rd or 4th?
-
did you not see this part?
"Posted Aug 26, 2009 "
very outdated.
-
I've seen every meaningful game that Colt McCoy has ever played in college.
3-1 against Oklahoma. 3-0 in bowl games. Highest completion percentage in a single season and second highest for a career. 45 career wins (most ever).
I think that's good enough to take a chance on him no matter what the media says.
Then again, I'm biased. He's my guy.
-
His play in the Oklahoma game this year was pretty awful, making that stat kind of ironic. As I recall, one of McCoy's biggest defenders on this board, Mr. Solon16, flipped to the dark side after that game.
McCoy was great this year against Texas A&M. He was mostly disappointing in the other games.
-
McCoy wont be hire then the 5th round
weak arm thats "dead" in his own words, his fathers and coaches words
will be alot weaker with this injury
out of NFL in 3 years
-
I've seen every meaningful game that Colt McCoy has ever played in college.
3-1 against Oklahoma. 3-0 in bowl games. Highest completion percentage in a single season and second highest for a career. 45 career wins (most ever).
I think that's good enough to take a chance on him no matter what the media says.
Then again, I'm biased. He's my guy.
I've seen every meaningful game that Colt McCoy has ever played in college.
3-1 against Oklahoma. 3-0 in bowl games. Highest completion percentage in a single season and second highest for a career. 45 career wins (most ever).
I think that's good enough to take a chance on him no matter what the media says.
Then again, I'm biased. He's my guy.
you probably think we should take Tebow as well then since he's more accomplished
won 48 Games (35 as a starter but got significant PT his frehsman year)
2 NC rings
1 Heisman
3-1 vs UGA
3-1 in Bowl games
1st player with 20 Passing & Rushing TDs in the same year
1st player with 20 Rushing & 30 Passing TDs in the same year
all time SEC Passing and Rushing TD leader
give me a break McCoy has no NFL future and Tebow is likley the same
-
His play in the Oklahoma game this year was pretty awful, making that stat kind of ironic. As I recall, one of McCoy's biggest defenders on this board, Mr. Solon16, flipped to the dark side after that game.
McCoy was great this year against Texas A&M. He was mostly disappointing in the other games.
His play in the Oklahoma game this year was pretty awful, making that stat kind of ironic. As I recall, one of McCoy's biggest defenders on this board, Mr. Solon16, flipped to the dark side after that game.
McCoy was great this year against Texas A&M. He was mostly disappointing in the other games.
He'd be a better pick in the third.....I don't see holmgren passing on McCoy if he gets to our second-third round pick!
-
His play in the Oklahoma game this year was pretty awful, making that stat kind of ironic. As I recall, one of McCoy's biggest defenders on this board, Mr. Solon16, flipped to the dark side after that game.
McCoy was great this year against Texas A&M. He was mostly disappointing in the other games.
He'd be a better pick in the third.....I don't see holmgren passing on McCoy if he gets to our second-third round pick!
-
did you not see this part?
"Posted Aug 26, 2009 "
very outdated.
Just out of curiosity - why do you suppose I put the date on the subject heading Beef? If you're gonna open up a thread for the sole of insulting it - don't you think you should at least read it first? Read it (including my followup to it) and then tell me what kids woke up terrible Qbs the day after it was written.
Perhaps maybe my method behind the madness is to make sure we're looking at the total body of work vrs 1 final season? I think if you're looking at QBs for a 2-3 year period of starting - you get the idea they don't just wake up 1 morning sensational or sucky. That being the case, this guy looked like he was right on the money with alot of things.
Personally, I'd rather avoid the next Jamarcus Russell type; and fully understand that a Dan Marino can have a disappointing senior year. I think McCoy had a more impressive junior year than senior year and the Snead kid at Ole Miss had a much better 08 than 09. That's called a total body of work vrs an extract. In the total body of work you can also measure growth in 1 type of offense or notice roster turnover or even a new offensive system like the kid in Washington had to learn.
- Tom F.
-
His play in the Oklahoma game this year was pretty awful, making that stat kind of ironic. As I recall, one of McCoy's biggest defenders on this board, Mr. Solon16, flipped to the dark side after that game.
McCoy was great this year against Texas A&M. He was mostly disappointing in the other games.
His play in the Oklahoma game this year was pretty awful, making that stat kind of ironic. As I recall, one of McCoy's biggest defenders on this board, Mr. Solon16, flipped to the dark side after that game.
McCoy was great this year against Texas A&M. He was mostly disappointing in the other games.
Again, it's crystal clear McCoy didn't have the same lineup goodies he had in 2008 so what season was more reflective of the REAL McCoy: 08 or 09? Look at his running game and pass protections if you think he did. HUGE difference and yet - did the winning stop? I'm an Ohio State fan and I can tell you first hand without a special QB like McCoy - Ohio State WINS that Bowl Game vrs Texas last year. Texas had to come back to beat alot of their opponents while McCoy was there. They also beat alot of RANKED opponents in the process including their rival Oklahoma seemingly everytime. This kid's a winner!
Do I need to remind anyone here how many scouts concluded Marino's disappointing senior year was the rule instead of the exception to it? And guess how many Qbs were drafted ahead of him back in the day? That's why we go with body of work instead of extractions that catapult the Jamarcus Russells of college football. Look deeper into why SOME things look different from 1 year to the next.
Folks, I'd roll the dice on McCoy in round 2 with the undertsanding he's just 1 of 11 picks. We've done much worse - trust me!
- Tom F.
-
I've seen every meaningful game that Colt McCoy has ever played in college.
3-1 against Oklahoma. 3-0 in bowl games. Highest completion percentage in a single season and second highest for a career. 45 career wins (most ever).
I think that's good enough to take a chance on him no matter what the media says.
Then again, I'm biased. He's my guy.
you probably think we should take Tebow as well then since he's more accomplished
won 48 Games (35 as a starter but got significant PT his frehsman year)
2 NC rings
1 Heisman
3-1 vs UGA
3-1 in Bowl games
1st player with 20 Passing & Rushing TDs in the same year
1st player with 20 Rushing & 30 Passing TDs in the same year
all time SEC Passing and Rushing TD leader
give me a break McCoy has no NFL future and Tebow is likley the same
you probably think we should take Tebow as well then since he's more accomplished
won 48 Games (35 as a starter but got significant PT his frehsman year)
2 NC rings
1 Heisman
3-1 vs UGA
3-1 in Bowl games
1st player with 20 Passing & Rushing TDs in the same year
1st player with 20 Rushing & 30 Passing TDs in the same year
all time SEC Passing and Rushing TD leader
give me a break McCoy has no NFL future and Tebow is likley the same
Um. No. There's a simple something called "scouting". McCoy has a lot of fundamental QB skills that Tebow does not have. McCoy has a quick release and is far more accurate. Tebow has a windup and delivery that takes so long you may as well get him a mound and some chew. Not the same.
Not saying McCoy is a first rounder. I'm saying if he's there in round 3,....anyone would be a fool not to give him a try.
-
His play in the Oklahoma game this year was pretty awful, making that stat kind of ironic. As I recall, one of McCoy's biggest defenders on this board, Mr. Solon16, flipped to the dark side after that game.
McCoy was great this year against Texas A&M. He was mostly disappointing in the other games.
Again, it's crystal clear McCoy didn't have the same lineup goodies he had in 2008 so what season was more reflective of the REAL McCoy: 08 or 09? Look at his running game and pass protections if you think he did. HUGE difference and yet - did the winning stop? I'm an Ohio State fan and I can tell you first hand without a special QB like McCoy - Ohio State WINS that Bowl Game vrs Texas last year. Texas had to come back to beat alot of their opponents while McCoy was there. They also beat alot of RANKED opponents in the process including their rival Oklahoma seemingly everytime. This kid's a winner!
Do I need to remind anyone here how many scouts concluded Marino's disappointing senior year was the rule instead of the exception to it? And guess how many Qbs were drafted ahead of him back in the day? That's why we go with body of work instead of extractions that catapult the Jamarcus Russells of college football. Look deeper into why SOME things look different from 1 year to the next.
Folks, I'd roll the dice on McCoy in round 2 with the undertsanding he's just 1 of 11 picks. We've done much worse - trust me!
- Tom F.
Again, it's crystal clear McCoy didn't have the same lineup goodies he had in 2008 so what season was more reflective of the REAL McCoy: 08 or 09? Look at his running game and pass protections if you think he did. HUGE difference and yet - did the winning stop? I'm an Ohio State fan and I can tell you first hand without a special QB like McCoy - Ohio State WINS that Bowl Game vrs Texas last year. Texas had to come back to beat alot of their opponents while McCoy was there. They also beat alot of RANKED opponents in the process including their rival Oklahoma seemingly everytime. This kid's a winner!
As I told you via PM, I wasn't impressed by McCoy's '08 either. When he threw off his back foot, ugliness ensued. And he was surprisingly fumble-prone.
Back then, I wouldn't have considered him more than a late 1st/early 2nd round pick. Now, I'd probably consider him at the top of the 3rd.
In his latest mock, Brent "SOBO" Sobleski has us taking him there. That's fine by me, I guess.
-
Chris Brown, who writes for The New York Times had this to say and it represents the comparison I've always thought of...
n watching Colt, I see a lot of parrallels with another guy known for his accuracy: Drew Brees. Both have underrated athleticism, both are smart, and both can stick the ball on the receiver, exactly where they want to. That is something that cannot be taught, and it should continue to serve Colt well.
For what it's worth...
-
Again, it's crystal clear McCoy didn't have the same lineup goodies he had in 2008 so what season was more reflective of the REAL McCoy: 08 or 09? Look at his running game and pass protections if you think he did. HUGE difference and yet - did the winning stop? I'm an Ohio State fan and I can tell you first hand without a special QB like McCoy - Ohio State WINS that Bowl Game vrs Texas last year. Texas had to come back to beat alot of their opponents while McCoy was there. They also beat alot of RANKED opponents in the process including their rival Oklahoma seemingly everytime. This kid's a winner!
As I told you via PM, I wasn't impressed by McCoy's '08 either. When he threw off his back foot, ugliness ensued. And he was surprisingly fumble-prone.
Back then, I wouldn't have considered him more than a late 1st/early 2nd round pick. Now, I'd probably consider him at the top of the 3rd.
In his latest mock, Brent "SOBO" Sobleski has us taking him there. That's fine by me, I guess.
As I told you via PM, I wasn't impressed by McCoy's '08 either. When he threw off his back foot, ugliness ensued. And he was surprisingly fumble-prone.
Back then, I wouldn't have considered him more than a late 1st/early 2nd round pick. Now, I'd probably consider him at the top of the 3rd.
In his latest mock, Brent "SOBO" Sobleski has us taking him there. That's fine by me, I guess.
Thanks Alo! Let's face it, we're all gonna have our guys we feel good about and guys we don't. IMO, if he's there in round 2 - I like him. If they're comparing him to Drew Brees, I don't see how he gets past the first 64 picks on draft day so we might have to roll the dice on him because if he goes 3rd round. I find it hard to believe he lasts until our 7th slot of round 3.
Addressing your concerns - here's where I'm coming from: Every human on the planet playing QB will throw off their back foot if their oline hasn't given them a reason to step into the throw. In saying that, the SAME Qb can develop different habits over the years if his oline has given him reason for happy feet the previous oline might not have. Wanna see Peyton Manning missing good mechanics? Just watch the game Alex Brown sacked him 5 times at Florida or almost any matchup he had with Florida for that matter. Would it be fair of me to say that's the rule instead of the exception to it? When I'm watching kids like Kyle Orton and Tony Romo getting away with some of their flaws at the next level - I think this kid can do it too. I think we can find plenty of video of Pittsburgh's goofy QB throwing off the back foot too and getting away with less than text book mechanics. Brett Favre isn't exactly the role model of ideal mechanics either and never has been. It all boils down to this 1 question - are we looking at the RIGHT kid? And how many teams asked themselves about this when they clung to the Dan Marino senior year abstract over the total body of work?
Let's just look at McCoy's #s starting as early as 29 TD passes as a freshman from a small town 3 star recruit that wasn't supposed to have big game. I think the 3 star thing is where alot of his critics never got comfortable (not putting you in that category but there's plenty of them that only have eyes for Bradford instead). The numbers below reflect a pretty impressive 4 year body of work addressing the question of "how do we replace the leadership skills of Vince Young's National Championship run?"
Year Team Att Comp Comp% Yds YAtt TD Int Att Yds Avg TD
2006-2007 TEXAS 318 217 68.2 2570 8.1 29 7 68 170 2.5 2
2007-2008 TEXAS 425 276 64.9 3303 7.8 22 18 114 492 4.3 4
2008-2009 TEXAS 434 332 76.5 3859 8.9 34 8 135 579 4.3 11
2009-2010 TEXAS 470 332 70.6 3521 7.5 27 12 129 342 2.7 3
From completion percentages to touchdown passes - I saw the same special kid doing it to Ohio State's high rated defense when the game was on the line. 34 TDs, 3859 yards and a comp percentage of 76.5 in 2008 is the reason why I brought up what he could do with better blocking up front than he had in 2009. He even rushed for 11 TDs in 08 vrs just 3 in 09.
- Tom F.
-
As I told you via PM, I wasn't impressed by McCoy's '08 either. When he threw off his back foot, ugliness ensued. And he was surprisingly fumble-prone.
Back then, I wouldn't have considered him more than a late 1st/early 2nd round pick. Now, I'd probably consider him at the top of the 3rd.
In his latest mock, Brent "SOBO" Sobleski has us taking him there. That's fine by me, I guess.
Thanks Alo! Let's face it, we're all gonna have our guys we feel good about and guys we don't. IMO, if he's there in round 2 - I like him. If they're comparing him to Drew Brees, I don't see how he gets past the first 64 picks on draft day so we might have to roll the dice on him because if he goes 3rd round. I find it hard to believe he lasts until our 7th slot of round 3.
Addressing your concerns - here's where I'm coming from: Every human on the planet playing QB will throw off their back foot if their oline hasn't given them a reason to step into the throw. In saying that, the SAME Qb can develop different habits over the years if his oline has given him reason for happy feet the previous oline might not have. Wanna see Peyton Manning missing good mechanics? Just watch the game Alex Brown sacked him 5 times at Florida or almost any matchup he had with Florida for that matter. Would it be fair of me to say that's the rule instead of the exception to it? When I'm watching kids like Kyle Orton and Tony Romo getting away with some of their flaws at the next level - I think this kid can do it too. I think we can find plenty of video of Pittsburgh's goofy QB throwing off the back foot too and getting away with less than text book mechanics. Brett Favre isn't exactly the role model of ideal mechanics either and never has been. It all boils down to this 1 question - are we looking at the RIGHT kid? And how many teams asked themselves about this when they clung to the Dan Marino senior year abstract over the total body of work?
Let's just look at McCoy's #s starting as early as 29 TD passes as a freshman from a small town 3 star recruit that wasn't supposed to have big game. I think the 3 star thing is where alot of his critics never got comfortable (not putting you in that category but there's plenty of them that only have eyes for Bradford instead). The numbers below reflect a pretty impressive 4 year body of work addressing the question of "how do we replace the leadership skills of Vince Young's National Championship run?"
Year Team Att Comp Comp% Yds YAtt TD Int Att Yds Avg TD
2006-2007 TEXAS 318 217 68.2 2570 8.1 29 7 68 170 2.5 2
2007-2008 TEXAS 425 276 64.9 3303 7.8 22 18 114 492 4.3 4
2008-2009 TEXAS 434 332 76.5 3859 8.9 34 8 135 579 4.3 11
2009-2010 TEXAS 470 332 70.6 3521 7.5 27 12 129 342 2.7 3
From completion percentages to touchdown passes - I saw the same special kid doing it to Ohio State's high rated defense when the game was on the line. 34 TDs, 3859 yards and a comp percentage of 76.5 in 2008 is the reason why I brought up what he could do with better blocking up front than he had in 2009. He even rushed for 11 TDs in 08 vrs just 3 in 09.
- Tom F.
I think we can find plenty of video of Pittsburgh's goofy QB throwing off the back foot too and getting away with less than text book mechanics.
Generally speaking, I'll take a QB with good footwork & mechanics over a guy with bad ones. But the comparison to Roethlisberger doesn't work, I don't think; Ben can get away with it because he's got a much stronger arm.
McCoy, by contrast, ends up looking like this when he throws off his back foot.
The better comparison may be to how Eli Manning looked awful early in his career because he often threw off his back foot. But Manning's also got a stronger arm than McCoy.
-
I think we can find plenty of video of Pittsburgh's goofy QB throwing off the back foot too and getting away with less than text book mechanics.
Generally speaking, I'll take a QB with good footwork & mechanics over a guy with bad ones. But the comparison to Roethlisberger doesn't work, I don't think; Ben can get away with it because he's got a much stronger arm.
McCoy, by contrast, ends up looking like this when he throws off his back foot.
The better comparison may be to how Eli Manning looked awful early in his career because he often threw off his back foot. But Manning's also got a stronger arm than McCoy.
Generally speaking, I'll take a QB with good footwork & mechanics over a guy with bad ones. But the comparison to Roethlisberger doesn't work, I don't think; Ben can get away with it because he's got a much stronger arm.
McCoy, by contrast, ends up looking like this when he throws off his back foot.
The better comparison may be to how Eli Manning looked awful early in his career because he often threw off his back foot. But Manning's also got a stronger arm than McCoy.
So would I but I think we're arguing taste buds here. Maybe I'm not fully understanding your message. That's 1 throw Alo. It's hard to say everytime his mechanics were challenged that his arm showed up weak. Worth noting - here's how the rest of that game with Ohio State played out for McCoy:
41 of 59 = 414 pass yds 2 TDs 1 INT (he also scored on a 14 yard TD run)
You get this kid in some NFL strength and conditioning program for 2 years and his arm will get stronger much the way Drew Brees' did. Drew Brees wasn't exactly an instant success. But I think this kid sports some impressive intangibles like vision and accuracy because the numbers below floor me:
Year Team Att Comp Comp% Yds YAtt TD Int Att Yds Avg TD
2006-2007 TEXAS 318 217 68.2 2570 8.1 29 7 68 170 2.5 2
2007-2008 TEXAS 425 276 64.9 3303 7.8 22 18 114 492 4.3 4
2008-2009 TEXAS 434 332 76.5 3859 8.9 34 8 135 579 4.3 11
2009-2010 TEXAS 470 332 70.6 3521 7.5 27 12 129 342 2.7 3
Here's Texas' record in that span:
2006 10-3-0
2007 10-3-0
2008 12-1-0
2009 13-1-0
He's 25-2 in the last 2 years - and 1 of those losses his team was ahead when he left the game right?
Brian Sipe was one of my favorite Qbs of all time. The reason he was told he couldn't make it in the NFL was he had this weak arm that wasn't supposed work in the NFL. He proved alot of people wrong. Kosar had flawed mechanics that weren't supposed to work at the NFL level either. Those 2 guys are the best examples I can think of why the NFL has never been an exact science while Mike Phipps was allegedly the prototype.
So in the end, if we land McCoy in round 2 - I think we got alot to be happy about. I like LeFevour too. I'll even fess up to some fondness over Keenum in a mid-round inspite of the atrocious Bowl performance. I think Bradford is very talented; but the guys we're talking about won't require us to burn our 1st pick on them.
- Tom F.
-
Alo, McCoy doesn't routinely throw off of his back foot. For every one of those, there's at least one of these....
and that's from the same game.
Alo, McCoy doesn't routinely throw off of his back foot. For every one of those, there's at least one of these....
and that's from the same game.
I didn't mean to suggest that McCoy "routinely" throws off his back foot. Rather, my point is that McCoy has a lot less room for error on his footwork & mechanics because his arm strength is average.
My larger point, which I didn't do a particularly good job explaining, is that the film from his junior year wasn't overwhelming positive, at least not in a way that would excuse away the rough edges losing Quan Cosby & Chris Ogbonnaya supposedly imposed on his game. Flugel specifically cited the OSU game, so I pointed out a play that was one example of what moderate McCoy skeptics like myself saw. You may recall that he made almost the exactly same throw in the '08 Kansas game, only to have a defensive penalty negate the pick. And we've seen a lot of throws like that this year, as well as a lot of issue with his deep ball accuracy.
All this is a roundabout way of challenging the dichotomy of the '08 McCoy vs. the '09 McCoy. To many, the issues that showed up big time in '09 were already extant in '08.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login