Colts lack of integrity
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We should have taken care of business in Cinci but we choked and have no one to blame but ourselves.
Sure,
But, by that context, perhaps Cinci should have rolled over for us the way the Colts rolled over for the Titans.
I mean, in essence we should say to the Colts or others: if you want to forfeit the game, just say so. Don't even show up at the stadium.
If team A has to play against a team that gives no effort, why should Team B have to play against a team that gives max effort? It should be an even playing field. It wasn't.
Sure,
But, by that context, perhaps Cinci should have rolled over for us the way the Colts rolled over for the Titans.
I mean, in essence we should say to the Colts or others: if you want to forfeit the game, just say so. Don't even show up at the stadium.
If team A has to play against a team that gives no effort, why should Team B have to play against a team that gives max effort? It should be an even playing field. It wasn't
.I understand what we're saying Gipper but I look at it as you take care of business, don't rely on others to get you what you want.
When teams rest starters they are doing what is best for them and their ultimate goal of winning the Super Bowl. They aren't trying to screw their fans out of a competitive game or other teams on the verge of getting in. Take this year for example, Colts could have and probably would have gone 16 - 0 if they hadn't rested their starters. But what if they go 16 - 0 then lose in the Super Bowl like New England? The same fans who are bitching because they didn't go for the undefeated season would be bitching about losing the Super Bowl, so it's a no win situation.
Yes, it would have been great to see us in the playoffs that year but bottom line is we had a "win and you're in" scenario and we didn't take hold of that. Then the next week when we all knew the Colts were going to rest their starters we as fans act insulted by this?
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Yea, but, look guys, figure this out:
The Jets made the playoffs by going 9-7. I the course of that they played 2 teams that laid down: The Colts and the Bengals.
And note this: The Steelers went 9-7, the Texans 9-7, The Titans 8-8, the Broncos 8-8, the Jags 7-9.
If the Jags had played 2 games against teams that quit, they may have ended up 9-7 instead of 7-9 and have been in the playoffs.
Did any of these other teams have the benefit of playing against 2 teams that quit? The Steelers are sitting at home because the Browns didn't quit.
Perhaps next year the Browns can play a whole schedule of 16 games against teams that say "this game doesn't count much for us, we'll just play our scrubeenies". I guess I would like that, but would it be fair?
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hey gipper, I basically agree with you. I been complaining for years. About team letting off the gas peddle.
I just feel bad that the colts dont give a dam about cheating there fans out a of money and time.
Its one thing to have a bad team lose and still charge full price, it another for a good team to charge full price and not try at all.
This people are paid way too much to use such lousely excuses.
For this simple reason I hope the colts lose.
I, as a browns fan I would rather see the steelers win it all again, than see the colts win.
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If PManning is still taking the field in late january and and early feb after taking a half or so off during december, i would not feeel cheated...that's what happens when you get out of the gate rolling to a 13-2 record....why risk your franchise player in totally meaningless games...i agree there is an air of impropriety in what goes on in late december in the league....don't see it being addressed anytime soon by owners....as long as it doesn't affect gate receipts (indy sold out all dec) i don't think they care.....
Uh, the point is, those games are NOT meaningless. They are very important to the opposition, and to the teams that opposition is vying with for a playoff spot.
Uh, the point is, those games are NOT meaningless. They are very important to the opposition, and to the teams that opposition is vying with for a playoff spot.
the colts DON'T effin' care about teams crying about the perceived injustice of them resting their 1st stringers...Why can they rest their starters??..because they played balls to the walls for 15 effin weeks in going 13-2...because they busted their ass in camp.....because when they come to practice they don't dick around...because they have been to the promised land they know what must be done....they have lived the process and hold no quarter for those who question their integrity....win the games you are supposed to win and let the losers come up with excuses....i sense a little envy Gipper
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i agree with the gip all the way. and kosar _for _prez. not only is it a lack of integrity it's also the colts saying that they can turn it on and off like a light switch. the lakers used to lay down at the end of the season too thinking that come to the playoffs they could flip the switch and burn @ 100% again. i hope the colts lay a big fat egg that drips down the face of manning and the rookie coach. even though he's probably going down in history as one of the best, there's something unwatchable about manning. i can't stand his audible bs EVERY PLAY. why even have a coach? i know we used to call ewing horse face but wow "peyton, why the long face?"
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The Colts lack of integrity at the end of the season could (and hopefully will) come back to bite them in the ass.
Recall that the Colts and Jets played in like the next to last game of the season and the Colts were winning I believe in the second half when they "called off the dogs" and put in their scrub players to finish up against the Jets in that game. Recall that the Jets, whose playoff lives were on the line, came back to win that game by a slim margin.
The Colts, by choking it back, in essence manipulated the playoff scenario by allowing the Jets to win that game. If the Jets lose that game, their playoff dreams would have been over. If the Colts play that game with integrity, the Jets are likely sitting home. As it is, because they surrendered their integrity, the Jets, who would have been out had the the Colts won, are now one of the hottest teams in the playoffs and are vying against the Colts for the AFC title.
The move by the Colts could come back and bit them in the A$$. And I, for one, hope it does. I recall how the Colts did this a few years ago when the Browns playoff chances were on the line. If they beat the Titans, the Browns make the playoffs. But no, the Colts played their scrubs that whole game. It was still a close game, but the Tits won. If the Colts played THAT game with integrity, the Browns, not the Tits would have been in the playoffs.
So, here is hoping the Jets beat the Colts, and it would only be a fate which they deserve, because they manipulated the playoff by putting the Jets in there.
And also, personally, I don't see how that is any different than the Black Sox throwing games for money.
Fair to say?
So, here is hoping the Jets beat the Colts, and it would only be a fate which they deserve, because they manipulated the playoff by putting the Jets in there.
And also, personally, I don't see how that is any different than the Black Sox throwing games for money.
Fair to say?
not in a million years....you've crossed the line this time Gipper
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hey gipper, I basically agree with you. I been complaining for years. About team letting off the gas peddle.
I just feel bad that the colts dont give a dam about cheating there fans out a of money and time.
Its one thing to have a bad team lose and still charge full price, it another for a good team to charge full price and not try at all.
This people are paid way too much to use such lousely excuses.
For this simple reason I hope the colts lose.
I, as a browns fan I would rather see the steelers win it all again, than see the colts win.
I, as a browns fan I would rather see the steelers win it all again, than see the colts win.
Huh?? I must be drunk and seeing things!
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Yea, but, look guys, figure this out:
The Jets made the playoffs by going 9-7. I the course of that they played 2 teams that laid down: The Colts and the Bengals.
And note this: The Steelers went 9-7, the Texans 9-7, The Titans 8-8, the Broncos 8-8, the Jags 7-9.
If the Jags had played 2 games against teams that quit, they may have ended up 9-7 instead of 7-9 and have been in the playoffs.
Did any of these other teams have the benefit of playing against 2 teams that quit? The Steelers are sitting at home because the Browns didn't quit.
Perhaps next year the Browns can play a whole schedule of 16 games against teams that say "this game doesn't count much for us, we'll just play our scrubeenies". I guess I would like that, but would it be fair?
And note this: The Steelers went 9-7, the Texans 9-7, The Titans 8-8, the Broncos 8-8, the Jags 7-9.
If the Jags had played 2 games against teams that quit, they may have ended up 9-7 instead of 7-9 and have been in the playoffs.
Did any of these other teams have the benefit of playing against 2 teams that quit? The Steelers are sitting at home because the Browns didn't quit.
Perhaps next year the Browns can play a whole schedule of 16 games against teams that say "this game doesn't count much for us, we'll just play our scrubeenies". I guess I would like that, but would it be fair?
That's just how the games go. I mean that's like saying the Cardinals got into the playoffs unfairly because they got to play st. louis and detroit in 2 of the last 3 weeks of the season. Teams that are hungry enough should be able to beat whoever they need to to guarantee a playoff spot. Jax had their chances, as did every other team in the playoff hunt. But only the teams that took advantage of those opportunities made it. Besides just because you are playing 2nd and 3rd string players doesn't guarantee a win for the other team. On any given sunday, my friend.
I, as a browns fan I would rather see the steelers win it all again, than see the colts win.
You know man, you really shouldn't smoke crack. Makes you say silly things like this
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I really hope the NFL doesn't expand the schedule to 17 or 18 games, or these kind of scenarios will occur even more often.
This is a pro sport, with pro ticket prices, parking fees, concession stand items, etc. The Colts' fans deserved better when Indy gave the game to the Jets, no ifs, ands or buts.
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And note this: The Steelers went 9-7, the Texans 9-7, The Titans 8-8, the Broncos 8-8, the Jags 7-9.
If the Jags had played 2 games against teams that quit, they may have ended up 9-7 instead of 7-9 and have been in the playoffs.
Did any of these other teams have the benefit of playing against 2 teams that quit? The Steelers are sitting at home because the Browns didn't quit.
Perhaps next year the Browns can play a whole schedule of 16 games against teams that say "this game doesn't count much for us, we'll just play our scrubeenies". I guess I would like that, but would it be fair?
That's just how the games go. I mean that's like saying the Cardinals got into the playoffs unfairly because they got to play st. louis and detroit in 2 of the last 3 weeks of the season. Teams that are hungry enough should be able to beat whoever they need to to guarantee a playoff spot. Jax had their chances, as did every other team in the playoff hunt. But only the teams that took advantage of those opportunities made it. Besides just because you are playing 2nd and 3rd string players doesn't guarantee a win for the other team. On any given sunday, my friend.
I, as a browns fan I would rather see the steelers win it all again, than see the colts win.
You know man, you really shouldn't smoke crack. Makes you say silly things like this
That's just how the games go. I mean that's like saying the Cardinals got into the playoffs unfairly because they got to play st. louis and detroit in 2 of the last 3 weeks of the season. Teams that are hungry enough should be able to beat whoever they need to to guarantee a playoff spot. Jax had their chances, as did every other team in the playoff hunt. But only the teams that took advantage of those opportunities made it. Besides just because you are playing 2nd and 3rd string players doesn't guarantee a win for the other team. On any given sunday, my friend.
Playing your second and third stringers against another team sure as hell does give the opponent a competitive advantage- Pretty extreme example- Let's say the Colts were playing the Cardinals this year (who needed a win to get in) instead of the Jets. Manning- Warner even match. Warner - Curtis Painter? Big joke. This isn't the preseason (which is fully deserving of another rant- why do season ticket holders have to pay full freight to watch the 4th preseason joke where the starters play one series and sit?)
You can spin it anyway you want to, but the Jets were gifted a spot in the playoffs and were given an unfair advantage when the Colts & Bengals rolled over and played dead.
This doesn't change the playoff landscape? Say the Steelers and Houston had their divisions wrapped up and rested their starters instead- Miami makes the playoffs. Ditto that with the Patriots and Browns resting their starters- the Jaguars get in.
I thought the object of the game was to win, not to see if you could avoid getting people hurt. FWIW, if the Colts are up two scores with 5 minutes left in the game, by all means pull Manning, not at the end of the second quarter. And this is for the guy who holds the record for least sacks per pass attempt in the history of the NFL. Pu**ies- if I didn't hate Brayoln in particular and NY frontrunner Yankee fans in general, I'd be rooting like mad for the Colts to get it handed to them by a team they let sneak into the playoffs.
Let's turn this 180 while were at it. did the Saints and Vikings pull Brees or Farve while they were kicking the ever loving s**t out of the Cowboys and Cardinals? Don't think so. Gee, they might have gotten HURT.
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I don't think anyone should act so shocked that Indy basically gave the game away. It's a chess match. They were in a position to do whatever they felt like. I personally can't stand the Jets, so I'll be rooting for the Colts.
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So, here is hoping the Jets beat the Colts, and it would only be a fate which they deserve, because they manipulated the playoff by putting the Jets in there.
And also, personally, I don't see how that is any different than the Black Sox throwing games for money.
Fair to say?
not in a million years....you've crossed the line this time Gipper
not in a million years....you've crossed the line this time Gipper
I don't think so. I see myself as more the "line setter". 🥷
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not in a million years....you've crossed the line this time Gipper
I don't think so. I see myself as more the "line setter". 🥷
I don't think so. I see myself as more the "line setter". 🥷
what do you realistically propose to fix this from happening?
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I don't think so. I see myself as more the "line setter". 🥷
what do you realistically propose to fix this from happening?
what do you realistically propose to fix this from happening?
It is a vexed question. The proposal that the last 3 games of the season all be scheduled as division games could make a little sense. I doubt that anything would be foolproof.
Someone suggested giving a team that has wrapped up a playoff spot extra draft picks for playing their starters. That is totally bogus to me.
I mean, I would hope that most teams who have wrapped up a playoff spot would do the right thing and say "we want to beat these guys here and send them home for the playoffs".
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I couldn't disagree more. You want to make the playoffs? Win your games and don't cry about another team's strategy. When you clinch the first seed halfway through the season, then you've absolutely earned the right to not only rest your starters, but also pick your spots when you'll rest your starters depending on what teams you'd like to see in your playoff brackets. I wonder how many other teams' fans are still obsessing about this, or if it's mostly Browns fans who are still upset about their team chok...I mean, those mean Colts being solely responsible for the team not making the playoffs.
Dennis
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I don't think so. I see myself as more the "line setter". 🥷
what do you realistically propose to fix this from happening?
what do you realistically propose to fix this from happening?
Nothing will ever fix this from happening. Coaches will always rest their starters if they have the postseason locked up. It's a way of life. The only thing that could help is scheduling the last 6 games of the season as divisional games, but even that will only do so much. Today, in class, I was giving the matter some thought, and I came up with a quirk to the scheduling that might help.
Say they do schedule the last 6 games of the season as divisional games. Within the divisional schedule, if they were to cycle the schedule based on standings instead of randomization, it could help. Almost like creating a bracket, to some extent. Look at it this way.
Say, in 2009, the AFC North looked like this:
1. Cleveland
2. Cincinatti
3. Baltimore
4. Pittsburgh
In 2010, then, the divisional schedule for us would be as follows (based solely on the previous year's rankings):
Week 12: Cincinatti
Week 13: Baltimore
Week 14: Pittsburgh
Week 15: Pittsburgh
Week 16: Baltimore
Week 17: Cincinatti
Say we were beaten by Cincinatti in Week 12, but finished out the rest of our divisional schedule strong. Then the last game would actually mean something, I would assume. I'm not sure how tiebreakers and stuff actually work in divisional play, there's too many differences between high school, college and the NFL for me to keep track.
The only problem with this is that we would play a team in back-to-back weeks, which 90% of all fans would disagree with. Especially if the aforementioned team is your rival. Also, this would probably have a tremendous impact on primetime scheduling. Furthermore, the power rankings of the previous year really have no merit in the following season.
Another thing that could possibly work is reserving the last game of the season for rivalry games. It would be a great end to the regular season for teams that normally finish in the cellar, and nobody wants to lose to their rival. Plus, it would make the last weekend of regular season football something that fans could really get into, whether their team has secured a playoff spot or not.
Looking back on it, my first idea was pretty terrible.
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what do you realistically propose to fix this from happening?
It is a vexed question. The proposal that the last 3 games of the season all be scheduled as division games could make a little sense. I doubt that anything would be foolproof.
Someone suggested giving a team that has wrapped up a playoff spot extra draft picks for playing their starters. That is totally bogus to me.
I mean, I would hope that most teams who have wrapped up a playoff spot would do the right thing and say "we want to beat these guys here and send them home for the playoffs".
It is a vexed question. The proposal that the last 3 games of the season all be scheduled as division games could make a little sense. I doubt that anything would be foolproof.
Someone suggested giving a team that has wrapped up a playoff spot extra draft picks for playing their starters. That is totally bogus to me.
I mean, I would hope that most teams who have wrapped up a playoff spot would do the right thing and say "we want to beat these guys here and send them home for the playoffs".
don't forget the crying babies
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I couldn't disagree more. You want to make the playoffs? Win your games and don't cry about another team's strategy. When you clinch the first seed halfway through the season, then you've absolutely earned the right to not only rest your starters, but also pick your spots when you'll rest your starters depending on what teams you'd like to see in your playoff brackets. I wonder how many other teams' fans are still obsessing about this, or if it's mostly Browns fans who are still upset about their team chok...I mean, those mean Colts being solely responsible for the team not making the playoffs.
Dennis
I couldn't disagree more. You want to make the playoffs? Win your games and don't cry about another team's strategy. When you clinch the first seed halfway through the season, then you've absolutely earned the right to not only rest your starters, but also pick your spots when you'll rest your starters depending on what teams you'd like to see in your playoff brackets. I wonder how many other teams' fans are still obsessing about this, or if it's mostly Browns fans who are still upset about their team chok...I mean, those mean Colts being solely responsible for the team not making the playoffs.
Dennis
This argument has merit but it doesn't address the question of fans who have paid for tickets to enjoy watching their team play.
Woof Woof, Kathy http://cognitivemanifesto.com/ http://www.skadden.com/index.cfm?contentID=49&officeID=9 Bendix ESP -
The Colts lack of integrity at the end of the season could (and hopefully will) come back to bite them in the ass.
Recall that the Colts and Jets played in like the next to last game of the season and the Colts were winning I believe in the second half when they "called off the dogs" and put in their scrub players to finish up against the Jets in that game. Recall that the Jets, whose playoff lives were on the line, came back to win that game by a slim margin.
The Colts, by choking it back, in essence manipulated the playoff scenario by allowing the Jets to win that game. If the Jets lose that game, their playoff dreams would have been over. If the Colts play that game with integrity, the Jets are likely sitting home. As it is, because they surrendered their integrity, the Jets, who would have been out had the the Colts won, are now one of the hottest teams in the playoffs and are vying against the Colts for the AFC title.
The move by the Colts could come back and bit them in the A$$. And I, for one, hope it does. I recall how the Colts did this a few years ago when the Browns playoff chances were on the line. If they beat the Titans, the Browns make the playoffs. But no, the Colts played their scrubs that whole game. It was still a close game, but the Tits won. If the Colts played THAT game with integrity, the Browns, not the Tits would have been in the playoffs.
So, here is hoping the Jets beat the Colts, and it would only be a fate which they deserve, because they manipulated the playoff by putting the Jets in there.
And also, personally, I don't see how that is any different than the Black Sox throwing games for money.
Fair to say?
The Colts lack of integrity at the end of the season could (and hopefully will) come back to bite them in the ass.
Recall that the Colts and Jets played in like the next to last game of the season and the Colts were winning I believe in the second half when they "called off the dogs" and put in their scrub players to finish up against the Jets in that game. Recall that the Jets, whose playoff lives were on the line, came back to win that game by a slim margin.
The Colts, by choking it back, in essence manipulated the playoff scenario by allowing the Jets to win that game. If the Jets lose that game, their playoff dreams would have been over. If the Colts play that game with integrity, the Jets are likely sitting home. As it is, because they surrendered their integrity, the Jets, who would have been out had the the Colts won, are now one of the hottest teams in the playoffs and are vying against the Colts for the AFC title.
The move by the Colts could come back and bit them in the A$$. And I, for one, hope it does. I recall how the Colts did this a few years ago when the Browns playoff chances were on the line. If they beat the Titans, the Browns make the playoffs. But no, the Colts played their scrubs that whole game. It was still a close game, but the Tits won. If the Colts played THAT game with integrity, the Browns, not the Tits would have been in the playoffs.
So, here is hoping the Jets beat the Colts, and it would only be a fate which they deserve, because they manipulated the playoff by putting the Jets in there.
And also, personally, I don't see how that is any different than the Black Sox throwing games for money.
Fair to say?
Peyton girl will find a way to blow it. He'll probably throw 3 picks in a 17-14 loss to the Jets.
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I couldn't disagree more. You want to make the playoffs? Win your games and don't cry about another team's strategy. When you clinch the first seed halfway through the season, then you've absolutely earned the right to not only rest your starters, but also pick your spots when you'll rest your starters depending on what teams you'd like to see in your playoff brackets. I wonder how many other teams' fans are still obsessing about this, or if it's mostly Browns fans who are still upset about their team chok...I mean, those mean Colts being solely responsible for the team not making the playoffs.
Dennis
This argument has merit but it doesn't address the question of fans who have paid for tickets to enjoy watching their team play.
This argument has merit but it doesn't address the question of fans who have paid for tickets to enjoy watching their team play.
That's a fair point. I suppose I would argue--and I know that this is an unpopular argument, but it's one that I believe in--that buying a ticket doesn't entitle you to see your team's starters, or the people that fans think should be playing. To put it another way: let's say the Browns are having a terrible season and Eric Mangini keeps throwing Derek Anderson out there as a starter despite a lousy QB rating (granted, that's a bit unrealistic, but it could happen). Most fans think that putting Brady Quinn out there either gives the Browns a better chance to win now or at the very least would allow him to develop as a starter so that the team can do better in the future. Are the Browns cheating their fans? Are they being unethical? One could argue that they're making a tactical error, but that doesn't rise to the level of cheating anyone out of anything.
I've always said that when I buy a ticket, the only thing I'm entitled to is the use of the chair that I sit on during the game. The team doesn't owe me--or their competitors--anythign else, nor do I owe them anything.
Dennis
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