Is Phil Savage the Main problem
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I don't think Savage is the problem. Does anyone remember how bad the players we had streaming in here for years under coach/GM Butch Davis? Would anyone go back to the days of Tim Couch and Dennis Northcut? At least Phil has gotten us some playmakers. Thomas, Cribbs and Jamal Lewis are players. Quinn has the chance to be great. Even DA had some good games and Braylon Edwards, Kellen Winslow have the physical abilities to be great. Romeo Crennel is an awful coach and he has brought out the diva in these players. This team needs a real ball buster of a coach to come in and get these players in line.
Romeo is not head coach material. He's meant to be a coordinator or teacher. He's the player's "friend". Players need a coach that has 100% control of every situation and doesn't take any crap from his employees.
I don't think Savage is the problem. Does anyone remember how bad the players we had streaming in here for years under coach/GM Butch Davis? Would anyone go back to the days of Tim Couch and Dennis Northcut?
Butch Davis did NOT draft Tim Couch or Courtney Brown he just inherited a 5-27 football team that was in the playoffs 2 years later. You're saying Phil Savage has been better? What's our record since he came here anyway? This is the 4th year of his plan and you approve? God bless ya!
FYI, Savage KEPT Northcutt and gave him a salary increase to stay quoting "his dual function is not replaceable in our return game or passing game." In other words, he had NO idea Cribbs was an upgrade but crediting anyone on the staff for what we're seeing from his is inconvenient to the rant that the ONLY problem with this team is coaching. Coaching is just 1 of MANY symptoms I see.
Savage gave Andra Davis a raise. The SAME Andra Davis that Jamal Lewis ran through for 500 yards in 2 outings. The SAD truth is Lewis didn't play in either 4th quarter or he might have dialed up 700 yards in the 2 outings.
2 guys combining for 5 offsides penalties vrs Cincy isn't coaching - it's CHARACTER via lack of focus. Teenagers GET this so blaming a coach because a PROFESSIONAL doesn't is silly.
Edwards scored 16 TDs in 2007 so TALENT isn't the issue - CHARACTER is. How does one respond to adversity? That's CHARACTER and all I'm seeing is Michigan from Mr Edwards in the face of adversity. I thought he was turnign the corner vres Buffalo but we can't erase the Michigan in the kid. CHARACTER!
It took 4 FREAKIN years to land a REAL Nose Tackle because Hoffman, Oshinowo, Fisk, Washington, Parker and Kelly all SUCKED. Which one of those guys is still employed in this league? There's the APEX of our 3-4 and as much as I love Rogers - he's not built for endurance so he's only able to work on oxygen debt for 50% of the reps.
Now if you can point out 1 LBer on this team that could start anywhere else in our division TODAY - run it!
Like I said, Miami was 1-15 last year and all of a sudden EXCUSES aren't an option this year. That's called CHARACTER and you BETTER GMs include that in their personnel decisions. All we do here is EXCUSE Phil Savage from accountability and make stupid accusations that we're way more talented than we were when we made the playoffs. That being the case, why were we in the playoffs if the talent sucked and the coaching sucked????? I'm all ears for that one. Butch's problem was getting too much power and working around the porcelain pillars Policy propped the franchise up on. Did any utter 1 complaint about Policy? Course not!
Winslow is NOT the talent he was pre-draft. Pay attention to the flags for pushing off because 3 knee surgeries and staff infections later - all he has left are his hands. When the QB has accuracy problems like DA - he's rendered worthless. He also doesn't have the lower torso power to block/seal the edge like Heiden. Now, he's becoming a DIVA like Edwards. When your number of DIVAS increase - the play coach and nice guy stuff isn't what this team needs to straighten out character.
I keep hearing Savage is spoiling us with talent but the ONLY 2 fulltime guys on our team that could start for other teams are Thomas & Rogers. We have 3 STs guys that could do so as well: Cribbs, Dawson and Pontbriand. Otherwise, I'm looking at a bad cast of coaches with a defense scared to hit people and an offense that looks like a Polish Fire drill.
I've seen this franchise when it had talent AND character. Sipe, Byner, Matthews, Mike Johnson, Cody Reisen, Doug Dieken, Kevin Mack, Webster Slaughter, Frank Minnifield, Thane Gash, Hanford Dixon, Reggie Rucker, Bernie Kosar, Ozzie Newsome, Dan Fike. THAT is character WITH talent. This ain't even close!
- Tom F.
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This is more of a hypothetical devils advocate sort of argument.
Successful coaches tend to have a LOT more control than RAC does. They dont tend to give up personnel decisions of drafts completely over to the GM.
Savage had that power struggle fight with I cant remember his name initially and won.
Savage NOT RAC fired Carthon and probably chose Chud and Carthon with Rac giving his assent. (this is obviously conjecture)
RAC in order to get his first coaching job probably agreed to a lot less control than most head coaches and specifically successful ones.
Somone other than RAC made the decision for playing Quinn which that probably means savage in the manner they did.
Lerner is a hands off owner and gave Savage the keys to the kingdom maybe he needs to be the personnel operations president and not the GM.
I am not defending Carthon or RAC/Tucker fromt he Top down we are flawed and that starts with Savage. Looking at patterns of successful coaches and management shows a strong trend that coaches have a whole lot more say over player personnel and firing and hiring assistants.
This is not a BQ vs DA debate. This is a hypothetical possibility. I am not defending RAC and some of his choices in clock managment and other things I am just pointing out that maybe we really dont know what RAC would or would not do as a true head coach because Savage is to controlling as a GM.
This is more of a hypothetical devils advocate sort of argument.
Successful coaches tend to have a LOT more control than RAC does. They dont tend to give up personnel decisions of drafts completely over to the GM.
Savage had that power struggle fight with I cant remember his name initially and won.
Savage NOT RAC fired Carthon and probably chose Chud and Carthon with Rac giving his assent. (this is obviously conjecture)
RAC in order to get his first coaching job probably agreed to a lot less control than most head coaches and specifically successful ones.
Somone other than RAC made the decision for playing Quinn which that probably means savage in the manner they did.
Lerner is a hands off owner and gave Savage the keys to the kingdom maybe he needs to be the personnel operations president and not the GM.
I am not defending Carthon or RAC/Tucker fromt he Top down we are flawed and that starts with Savage. Looking at patterns of successful coaches and management shows a strong trend that coaches have a whole lot more say over player personnel and firing and hiring assistants.
This is not a BQ vs DA debate. This is a hypothetical possibility. I am not defending RAC and some of his choices in clock managment and other things I am just pointing out that maybe we really dont know what RAC would or would not do as a true head coach because Savage is to controlling as a GM.
Indeed Phil SEWAGE is the main problem and Collins made that clear............and so it is............here in the main problem a total fawiking loser as G M
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I don't think Savage is the problem. Does anyone remember how bad the players we had streaming in here for years under coach/GM Butch Davis? Would anyone go back to the days of Tim Couch and Dennis Northcut?
Butch Davis did NOT draft Tim Couch or Courtney Brown he just inherited a 5-27 football team that was in the playoffs 2 years later. You're saying Phil Savage has been better? What's our record since he came here anyway? This is the 4th year of his plan and you approve? God bless ya!
FYI, Savage KEPT Northcutt and gave him a salary increase to stay quoting "his dual function is not replaceable in our return game or passing game." In other words, he had NO idea Cribbs was an upgrade but crediting anyone on the staff for what we're seeing from his is inconvenient to the rant that the ONLY problem with this team is coaching. Coaching is just 1 of MANY symptoms I see.
Savage gave Andra Davis a raise. The SAME Andra Davis that Jamal Lewis ran through for 500 yards in 2 outings. The SAD truth is Lewis didn't play in either 4th quarter or he might have dialed up 700 yards in the 2 outings.
2 guys combining for 5 offsides penalties vrs Cincy isn't coaching - it's CHARACTER via lack of focus. Teenagers GET this so blaming a coach because a PROFESSIONAL doesn't is silly.
Edwards scored 16 TDs in 2007 so TALENT isn't the issue - CHARACTER is. How does one respond to adversity? That's CHARACTER and all I'm seeing is Michigan from Mr Edwards in the face of adversity. I thought he was turnign the corner vres Buffalo but we can't erase the Michigan in the kid. CHARACTER!
It took 4 FREAKIN years to land a REAL Nose Tackle because Hoffman, Oshinowo, Fisk, Washington, Parker and Kelly all SUCKED. Which one of those guys is still employed in this league? There's the APEX of our 3-4 and as much as I love Rogers - he's not built for endurance so he's only able to work on oxygen debt for 50% of the reps.
Now if you can point out 1 LBer on this team that could start anywhere else in our division TODAY - run it!
Like I said, Miami was 1-15 last year and all of a sudden EXCUSES aren't an option this year. That's called CHARACTER and you BETTER GMs include that in their personnel decisions. All we do here is EXCUSE Phil Savage from accountability and make stupid accusations that we're way more talented than we were when we made the playoffs. That being the case, why were we in the playoffs if the talent sucked and the coaching sucked????? I'm all ears for that one. Butch's problem was getting too much power and working around the porcelain pillars Policy propped the franchise up on. Did any utter 1 complaint about Policy? Course not!
Winslow is NOT the talent he was pre-draft. Pay attention to the flags for pushing off because 3 knee surgeries and staff infections later - all he has left are his hands. When the QB has accuracy problems like DA - he's rendered worthless. He also doesn't have the lower torso power to block/seal the edge like Heiden. Now, he's becoming a DIVA like Edwards. When your number of DIVAS increase - the play coach and nice guy stuff isn't what this team needs to straighten out character.
I keep hearing Savage is spoiling us with talent but the ONLY 2 fulltime guys on our team that could start for other teams are Thomas & Rogers. We have 3 STs guys that could do so as well: Cribbs, Dawson and Pontbriand. Otherwise, I'm looking at a bad cast of coaches with a defense scared to hit people and an offense that looks like a Polish Fire drill.
I've seen this franchise when it had talent AND character. Sipe, Byner, Matthews, Mike Johnson, Cody Reisen, Doug Dieken, Kevin Mack, Webster Slaughter, Frank Minnifield, Thane Gash, Hanford Dixon, Reggie Rucker, Bernie Kosar, Ozzie Newsome, Dan Fike. THAT is character WITH talent. This ain't even close!
- Tom F.
Savage gave Andra Davis a raise. The SAME Andra Davis that Jamal Lewis ran through for 500 yards in 2 outings. The SAD truth is Lewis didn't play in either 4th quarter or he might have dialed up 700 yards in the 2 outings.
He also gave him a pay cut and voided the remaining years on that same contract this offseason.
I keep hearing Savage is spoiling us with talent but the ONLY 2 fulltime guys on our team that could start for other teams are Thomas & Rogers. We have 3 STs guys that could do so as well: Cribbs, Dawson and Pontbriand. Otherwise, I'm looking at a bad cast of coaches with a defense scared to hit people and an offense that looks like a Polish Fire drill.
That is a stretch. Steinbach would be starting, Wright, Jones, Winslow, Edwards, Fraley, Lewis, and Vickers all would be starting for sure on any other NFL team.
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This is more of a hypothetical devils advocate sort of argument.
Successful coaches tend to have a LOT more control than RAC does. They dont tend to give up personnel decisions of drafts completely over to the GM.
Savage had that power struggle fight with I cant remember his name initially and won.
Savage NOT RAC fired Carthon and probably chose Chud and Carthon with Rac giving his assent. (this is obviously conjecture)
RAC in order to get his first coaching job probably agreed to a lot less control than most head coaches and specifically successful ones.
Somone other than RAC made the decision for playing Quinn which that probably means savage in the manner they did.
Lerner is a hands off owner and gave Savage the keys to the kingdom maybe he needs to be the personnel operations president and not the GM.
I am not defending Carthon or RAC/Tucker fromt he Top down we are flawed and that starts with Savage. Looking at patterns of successful coaches and management shows a strong trend that coaches have a whole lot more say over player personnel and firing and hiring assistants.
This is not a BQ vs DA debate. This is a hypothetical possibility. I am not defending RAC and some of his choices in clock managment and other things I am just pointing out that maybe we really dont know what RAC would or would not do as a true head coach because Savage is to controlling as a GM.
Indeed Phil SEWAGE is the main problem and Collins made that clear............and so it is............here in the main problem a total fawiking loser as G M
Indeed Phil SEWAGE is the main problem and Collins made that clear............and so it is............here in the main problem a total fawiking loser as G M
I wish you could have heard Bill Polian on the NFL network on the talent of the Cleveland Browns.....flies in the face of everything you say Rich...I respect BP's opinion.
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Lummy is dead on.
Shit rolls down hill. Lerner's Father was shit, and Randy is Shit. Is anyone surprised that we have Sewage and Crennel and GREAT players like Jam-old-man Lewis and McGimpest? Cripples like Gimpslow and Hall OF Shit players like Edwards?
I think it is amazing that this team has 4 wins so far.
For all I care Lerner could move this team. It isn't the Browns any way. You know it, and I know it.
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Indeed Phil SEWAGE is the main problem and Collins made that clear............and so it is............here in the main problem a total fawiking loser as G M
I wish you could have heard Bill Polian on the NFL network on the talent of the Cleveland Browns.....flies in the face of everything you say Rich...I respect BP's opinion.
I wish you could have heard Bill Polian on the NFL network on the talent of the Cleveland Browns.....flies in the face of everything you say Rich...I respect BP's opinion.
Polian is a coffee fetcher and knows nothing....lol. Wish I still had satellite for NFL network. I'll have to see if it is online.
You are right, BP knows his stuff. Talent is not the issue in CLE. Coaching is.
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Indeed Phil SEWAGE is the main problem and Collins made that clear............and so it is............here in the main problem a total fawiking loser as G M
I wish you could have heard Bill Polian on the NFL network on the talent of the Cleveland Browns.....flies in the face of everything you say Rich...I respect BP's opinion.
I wish you could have heard Bill Polian on the NFL network on the talent of the Cleveland Browns.....flies in the face of everything you say Rich...I respect BP's opinion.
Solon you are a good football guy and likely would be much better GM than Sewage. If we had drafted some of the guys you wanted the Browns would be a better team than they are now. If they had drafted the guys I wanted they would be the best team in the AFC. What do you expect Bill Polian a great GM to say about Sewage. That he is is odorific? Heck no .......he is going to say he has done a good job. It helps Indy get an easy win every two years against the Browns. Professional courtesy it is called! Better licking your chops and loving the ability to wockersnock the team whenever they play.
Hopefully, you will come around to my view on Sewage after the Browns have seven losing seasons in nine years under his Stearage!
I give up on Masters...he will never be objective......... he is still defending Sewages keeping Willie Green and Cutch getting Andruzzi and FAT Ted and Baxter. The worst the dumping Henry and Crocker and Boden and Stewart and Lehan to build that awesome secondary we have!.........not to mention giving one and two pick for Quinn and NOT drafting Peterson!...........even now the Edwards pick does not look so good..but we got one dimensional Wimbley which I so kindly pointed out two years ago when you both said he was the next coming of Lawrence Taylor
Offense Wins.......Franchise QB's are the key.............Defense keeps you in the game.........Go Buckeyes -
I wish you could have heard Bill Polian on the NFL network on the talent of the Cleveland Browns.....flies in the face of everything you say Rich...I respect BP's opinion.
Solon you are a good football guy and likely would be much better GM than Sewage. If we had drafted some of the guys you wanted the Browns would be a better team than they are now. If they had drafted the guys I wanted they would be the best team in the AFC. What do you expect Bill Polian a great GM to say about Sewage. That he is is odorific? Heck no .......he is going to say he has done a good job. It helps Indy get an easy win every two years against the Browns. Professional courtesy it is called! Better licking your chops and loving the ability to wockersnock the team whenever they play.
Hopefully, you will come around to my view on Sewage after the Browns have seven losing seasons in nine years under his Stearage!
I give up on Masters...he will never be objective......... he is still defending Sewages keeping Willie Green and Cutch getting Andruzzi and FAT Ted and Baxter. The worst the dumping Henry and Crocker and Boden and Stewart and Lehan to build that awesome secondary we have!.........not to mention giving one and two pick for Quinn and NOT drafting Peterson!...........even now the Edwards pick does not look so good..but we got one dimensional Wimbley which I so kindly pointed out two years ago when you both said he was the next coming of Lawrence Taylor
Solon you are a good football guy and likely would be much better GM than Sewage. If we had drafted some of the guys you wanted the Browns would be a better team than they are now. If they had drafted the guys I wanted they would be the best team in the AFC. What do you expect Bill Polian a great GM to say about Sewage. That he is is odorific? Heck no .......he is going to say he has done a good job. It helps Indy get an easy win every two years against the Browns. Professional courtesy it is called! Better licking your chops and loving the ability to wockersnock the team whenever they play.
Hopefully, you will come around to my view on Sewage after the Browns have seven losing seasons in nine years under his Stearage!
I give up on Masters...he will never be objective......... he is still defending Sewages keeping Willie Green and Cutch getting Andruzzi and FAT Ted and Baxter. The worst the dumping Henry and Crocker and Boden and Stewart and Lehan to build that awesome secondary we have!.........not to mention giving one and two pick for Quinn and NOT drafting Peterson!...........even now the Edwards pick does not look so good..but we got one dimensional Wimbley which I so kindly pointed out two years ago when you both said he was the next coming of Lawrence Taylor
Rich that was said so eloquently, we need to accept that Lerner is the owner and then start removing and replacing the peices right after that. Who are the current GM's worth looking at? Is there a real football guy out there to assist Lerner in making football decisions? It is obvious that Lerner would benefit from this.
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I wish you could have heard Bill Polian on the NFL network on the talent of the Cleveland Browns.....flies in the face of everything you say Rich...I respect BP's opinion.
Solon you are a good football guy and likely would be much better GM than Sewage. If we had drafted some of the guys you wanted the Browns would be a better team than they are now. If they had drafted the guys I wanted they would be the best team in the AFC. What do you expect Bill Polian a great GM to say about Sewage. That he is is odorific? Heck no .......he is going to say he has done a good job. It helps Indy get an easy win every two years against the Browns. Professional courtesy it is called! Better licking your chops and loving the ability to wockersnock the team whenever they play.
Hopefully, you will come around to my view on Sewage after the Browns have seven losing seasons in nine years under his Stearage!
I give up on Masters...he will never be objective......... he is still defending Sewages keeping Willie Green and Cutch getting Andruzzi and FAT Ted and Baxter. The worst the dumping Henry and Crocker and Boden and Stewart and Lehan to build that awesome secondary we have!.........not to mention giving one and two pick for Quinn and NOT drafting Peterson!...........even now the Edwards pick does not look so good..but we got one dimensional Wimbley which I so kindly pointed out two years ago when you both said he was the next coming of Lawrence Taylor
I give up on Masters...he will never be objective......... he is still defending Sewages keeping Willie Green and Cutch getting Andruzzi and FAT Ted and Baxter. The worst the dumping Henry and Crocker and Boden and Stewart and Lehan to build that awesome secondary we have!.........not to mention giving one and two pick for Quinn and NOT drafting Peterson!...........even now the Edwards pick does not look so good..but we got one dimensional Wimbley which I so kindly pointed out two years ago when you both said he was the next coming of Lawrence Taylor
You mean like you are still upset Savage didn't get P. Bowlware, trade away his draft for Troy Smith, and draft Mo Clarrett? Green, kept for one year and of course you gave him a shot under a new coach.
I never defended or complained about Cutch. He was a body and needed.
Andruzzi played well for one year. He was a stop gap (and likely someone RAC asked for)
Ted was a risk and another probably asked for by RAC. Who else was floating out there as a proven NT at the time?
Henry?
You mean the guy who said he walked because of how Davis treated him and Savage did first try to sign? Yeah, how you like to leave that out. This is th same Henry who gets burned each week at least once and DAL went out and got Pacman to replace.I'll take Shaun Rogers over Boden any day of the week.
Nothing wrong with that move to jump up and get Quinn. Hell, he followed your belief Rich.
I will take Thomas any day too over Peterson. Because 5 years from now, Thomas is far more likely to be playing at the same high level, while AD is reduced to what LT and other great backs turn into after 6 years in the NFL.
And PA-LEASE, no one said Wimbley was the next coming of Taylor. Lack of other moves is a lack of coaching. Maybe they should have taken the guy you prefered for that roll, Lawson. How is he doing again?
Talk about lack of abjectivity........Tell me again how Saban and Nolan will turn around MIA and SF faster than Savage in CLE, will ya?
As to Polian, he didn't comment on Savage, he commented on the talent level on CLE. So he could have easily said CLE was behind on or lacking talent.
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I wish you could have heard Bill Polian on the NFL network on the talent of the Cleveland Browns.....flies in the face of everything you say Rich...I respect BP's opinion.
Polian is a coffee fetcher and knows nothing....lol. Wish I still had satellite for NFL network. I'll have to see if it is online.
You are right, BP knows his stuff. Talent is not the issue in CLE. Coaching is.
Masters said:
Polian is a coffee fetcher and knows nothing....lol. Wish I still had satellite for NFL network. I'll have to see if it is online.You are right, BP knows his stuff. Talent is not the issue in CLE. Coaching is.
I couldn't agree more................Polian may be the best in the business and coaching is the issue.
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I give up on Masters...he will never be objective......... he is still defending Sewages keeping Willie Green and Cutch getting Andruzzi and FAT Ted and Baxter. The worst the dumping Henry and Crocker and Boden and Stewart and Lehan to build that awesome secondary we have!.........not to mention giving one and two pick for Quinn and NOT drafting Peterson!...........even now the Edwards pick does not look so good..but we got one dimensional Wimbley which I so kindly pointed out two years ago when you both said he was the next coming of Lawrence Taylor
You mean like you are still upset Savage didn't get P. Bowlware, trade away his draft for Troy Smith, and draft Mo Clarrett? Green, kept for one year and of course you gave him a shot under a new coach.
I never defended or complained about Cutch. He was a body and needed.
Andruzzi played well for one year. He was a stop gap (and likely someone RAC asked for)
Ted was a risk and another probably asked for by RAC. Who else was floating out there as a proven NT at the time?
Henry?
You mean the guy who said he walked because of how Davis treated him and Savage did first try to sign? Yeah, how you like to leave that out. This is th same Henry who gets burned each week at least once and DAL went out and got Pacman to replace.I'll take Shaun Rogers over Boden any day of the week.
Nothing wrong with that move to jump up and get Quinn. Hell, he followed your belief Rich.
I will take Thomas any day too over Peterson. Because 5 years from now, Thomas is far more likely to be playing at the same high level, while AD is reduced to what LT and other great backs turn into after 6 years in the NFL.
And PA-LEASE, no one said Wimbley was the next coming of Taylor. Lack of other moves is a lack of coaching. Maybe they should have taken the guy you prefered for that roll, Lawson. How is he doing again?
Talk about lack of abjectivity........Tell me again how Saban and Nolan will turn around MIA and SF faster than Savage in CLE, will ya?
As to Polian, he didn't comment on Savage, he commented on the talent level on CLE. So he could have easily said CLE was behind on or lacking talent.
Masters said:
You mean like you are still upset Savage didn't get P. Bowlware, trade away his draft for Troy Smith, and draft Mo Clarrett?
Green, kept for one year and of course you gave him a shot under a new coach.
I never defended or complained about Cutch. He was a body and needed.
Andruzzi played well for one year. He was a stop gap (and likely someone RAC asked for)
Ted was a risk and another probably asked for by RAC. Who else was floating out there as a proven NT at the time?
Henry?
You mean the guy who said he walked because of how Davis treated him and Savage did first try to sign? Yeah, how you like to leave that out. This is th same Henry who gets burned each week at least once and DAL went out and got Pacman to replace.I'll take Shaun Rogers over Boden any day of the week.
Nothing wrong with that move to jump up and get Quinn. Hell, he followed your belief Rich.
I will take Thomas any day too over Peterson. Because 5 years from now, Thomas is far more likely to be playing at the same high level, while AD is reduced to what LT and other great backs turn into after 6 years in the NFL.
And PA-LEASE, no one said Wimbley was the next coming of Taylor. Lack of other moves is a lack of coaching. Maybe they should have taken the guy you prefered for that roll, Lawson. How is he doing again?
Talk about lack of abjectivity........Tell me again how Saban and Nolan will turn around MIA and SF faster than Savage in CLE, will ya?
As to Polian, he didn't comment on Savage, he commented on the talent level on CLE. So he could have easily said CLE was behind on or lacking talent.
Maybe rich is still mad at Savage for not trading up and picking Alex Smith.
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