CBO Score for the health care bill
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When does responsibility for oneself come back into play instead of wanting the government to cover everything.
Liberal whine babies think there should be a law for every aspect of life, they loave government programs and social engineering.
I dont expect HC to go down within the next decade unless there is some type of tort reform or open state borders to allow competition. It worked well with Auto Ins.
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Once again, and for the third time, the problem wasn't adding a prescription drug benefit program, the problem was not paying the prescription drug program. No one wants to "take away Granny's meds." So you can dismantle that straw man.
Government programs are funded by tax dollars, or they're funded by borrowing - in other words, future tax dollars. If you want to add an entitlement program, you should create a way to pay for the program. This is the fiscally conservative viewpoint, and one that you apparently don't share.
And the swoon stuff ...come on. I don't have to swoon to support a bill. And I can't remember the last time I swooned. Perhaps my wedding.
Once again, and for the third time, the problem wasn't adding a prescription drug benefit program, the problem was not paying the prescription drug program. No one wants to "take away Granny's meds." So you can dismantle that straw man.
Phrase it anyway you like.
You're the guy that keeps bringing it up.
So ask Pelosi to stop it until it can be done the right way.
Government programs are funded by tax dollars, or they're funded by borrowing - in other words, future tax dollars. If you want to add an entitlement program, you should create a way to pay for the program. This is the fiscally conservative viewpoint, and one that you apparently don't share.
Like I say Heck, get involved. Shut it down.
Anyway if the fiscally conservative thing to do is give away everything and tax the shit out of somebody else to pay for it, I guess I don't.
Heck, can we agree that cheap loans made housing prices skyrocket?
Guess what happens when student loans are a dime a dozen?
Yes.
The price of a usually unnecessary education skyrockets.
And the swoon stuff ...come on. I don't have to swoon to support a bill. And I can't remember the last time I swooned. Perhaps my wedding.
Hopefully from strong drink.....
WSS
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T, please read something about this before you spout your ignorant mouth off.
Nobody is getting free insurance. Everyone will pay something into their plans. Everyone will have deductibles and co-pays and premiums. The Americans who meet certain income criteria will receive subsidies to buy insurance. And giving lower-income Americans subsidies to buy health insurance is not even something that most Republicans disagree with. Because you can't mandate expensive insurance coverage on people who can't afford it. Hence, the subsidies.
Again, here you are in your last few posts worried about what happens when you can't afford to pay, and then in this post you're worried about how the government will help people who can't afford to pay afford to pay. Well, which is it?
It doesn't seem to bother you that you're bitching about the same problem that is addressed in the legislation. Instead, we get more ignorant, factless grumbling.
Why don't you just shut up until you learn even the most basic things about the legislation? Why have an opinion if you don't know any of the facts?
Doesn't it bother you that I have to correct every single one of your posts for factual errors? Or explain to you that you can spend and save money at the same time?
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Steve, that was pretty weak tea.
You: Go ahead, off Granny's meds.
Me: Nobody is talking about cutting off Granny's meds. We're talking about paying for it.
You: Go ahead, shut it down until you pay for it.
We're not drunks in a bar.
I suspect you agree that paying for entitlement programs is better than not paying for them, then letting people in the future pay for them, with interest, and that you're just being obstinate. So I'll just assume you agree.
As for taxing the shit out of people, do you know where the additional taxes are coming from to pay for this plan? It doesn't sound like you do. Nobody is getting the shit taxed out of them. And you don't seem to know that much of the revenue is being found in savings and reforms, not additional taxes.
Where would you prefer the revenue sources came from if not from the proposed taxes? It seems as though you believe that if certain people can't afford health insurance in the private market, or have a job that gives them insurance, that they shouldn't be allowed to have it. Is that your position?
If so, let me know, and we can stop talking about this.
And yes, I was plowed at my wedding. Everyone was.
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T, please read something about this before you spout your ignorant mouth off.
Nobody is getting free insurance. Everyone will pay something into their plans. Everyone will have deductibles and co-pays and premiums. The Americans who meet certain income criteria will receive subsidies to buy insurance. And giving lower-income Americans subsidies to buy health insurance is not even something that most Republicans disagree with. Because you can't mandate expensive insurance coverage on people who can't afford it. Hence, the subsidies.
Again, here you are in your last few posts worried about what happens when you can't afford to pay, and then in this post you're worried about how the government will help people who can't afford to pay afford to pay. Well, which is it?
It doesn't seem to bother you that you're bitching about the same problem that is addressed in the legislation. Instead, we get more ignorant, factless grumbling.
Why don't you just shut up until you learn even the most basic things about the legislation? Why have an opinion if you don't know any of the facts?
Doesn't it bother you that I have to correct every single one of your posts for factual errors? Or explain to you that you can spend and save money at the same time?
T, please read something about this before you spout your ignorant mouth off.
Heck, I see you are intoxicated with yourself again and dont like others opinions.
Nobody is getting free insurance. Everyone will pay something into their plans. Everyone will have deductibles and co-pays and premiums. The Americans who meet certain income criteria will receive subsidies to buy insurance. And giving lower-income Americans subsidies to buy health insurance is not even something that most Republicans disagree with. Because you can't mandate expensive insurance coverage on people who can't afford it. Hence, the subsidies.
You are Wrong Again, ALL Employers will be made to provide HC regardless of how big there company is or they will be Fined$
Again, here you are in your last few posts worried about what happens when you can't afford to pay, and then in this post you're worried about how the government will help people who can't afford to pay afford to pay. Well, which is it?
You tell me, Since you have all of the talking points emailed to you.
It doesn't seem to bother you that you're bitching about the same problem that is addressed in the legislation. Instead, we get more ignorant, factless grumbling.
You seem to be the only one trying to manipulate others from thinking and addressing their concerns on this.
Why don't you just shut up until you learn even the most basic things about the legislation? Why have an opinion if you don't know any of the facts?
You yourself are a very opinionated nag with telling many falsehoods. Maybe its because you are spreading lies. I have read the facts and you do not tell the whole story heck.
Doesn't it bother you that I have to correct every single one of your posts for factual errors? Or explain to you that you can spend and save money at the same time?
Your corrections are of your own rhetoric, and you have not yet made one point to refute anything. such as your inability to show how the deficit will be rduce by 130 billion over a decade while we are spending $940 Billion, Unless your answer is that we are cutting medicare by at least 500 BILLION
Sorry heckles your argument is weak. And you are presuming way to much with the questions that I am asking and the points that i present
But here is a question that I know you will not answer; What happens to all of the small businesses who are barely staying a float and now they will be strapped with another Tax/Fine from the governm,ent if they do not provide health care insurance?
C'mon, Give me your talking points. maybe you need to email someone for an answer. will small businesses who happen to provide more than half of the employment sink or swim with this NEW Health Care TAX/FINED
It looks like we will hit a speed bump on the way to recovery, When in another post you were all for lowering taxes on businesses here in America so they wont leave and go to another country. which way should we have it Heck
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Mandatory insurance for AUTO drivers has been effective for quite some time in stabilizing car insurance premiums..............
You have to create funding both from taxes AND new insurance users to expand coverage (the intent is to reduce misuse of hospitals) driving costs down while increasing efficiency.......
UNLIKE the republican Bush medicare expansion which just added costs without PAYGO rules they are creating income mechanisms to offset costs......
Medicare has crazy inflated fraud related expenses not to mention Medicaid (gateway/unison/caremark) type companies making BILLIONS from "managing" costing the taxpayers tons of money that is not going toward actual medical services but their pockets and infrastructure.......
I mean seriously the CBO just handed the Dems a major PR piece victory.......
There are offsetting tax credits for small businesses...... we will be fine.....
Not much anyone can really dispute with the CBO.
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Steve, that was pretty weak tea.
You: Go ahead, off Granny's meds.
Me: Nobody is talking about cutting off Granny's meds. We're talking about paying for it.
You: Go ahead, shut it down until you pay for it.
We're not drunks in a bar.
I suspect you agree that paying for entitlement programs is better than not paying for them, then letting people in the future pay for them, with interest, and that you're just being obstinate. So I'll just assume you agree.
As for taxing the shit out of people, do you know where the additional taxes are coming from to pay for this plan? It doesn't sound like you do. Nobody is getting the shit taxed out of them. And you don't seem to know that much of the revenue is being found in savings and reforms, not additional taxes.
Where would you prefer the revenue sources came from if not from the proposed taxes? It seems as though you believe that if certain people can't afford health insurance in the private market, or have a job that gives them insurance, that they shouldn't be allowed to have it. Is that your position?
If so, let me know, and we can stop talking about this.
And yes, I was plowed at my wedding. Everyone was.
Steve, that was pretty weak tea.
You: Go ahead, off Granny's meds.
Me: Nobody is talking about cutting off Granny's meds. We're talking about paying for it.
You: Go ahead, shut it down until you pay for it.
We're not drunks in a bar.
Nope.
But you can't keep attacking the drug benefit program without admitting you wouldn't touch it.
You did the same to me with the UI extension.
No it isn't paid for and no I don't weant to take away dads unemployment.
I suspect you agree that paying for entitlement programs is better than not paying for them, then letting people in the future pay for them, with interest, and that you're just being obstinate. So I'll just assume you agree.
What I think about entitlements is that they start out as either good intentions or political bribery (or both) and turn into inefficient beasts.
As for taxing the shit out of people, do you know where the additional taxes are coming from to pay for this plan? It doesn't sound like you do. Nobody is getting the shit taxed out of them. And you don't seem to know that much of the revenue is being found in savings and reforms, not additional taxes.
Correct. And I don't believe it for a second. If Medicare was fraught with waste and graft you guys could have cleaned it out the first week of your reign and cut the deficit by 500 billion.
Where would you prefer the revenue sources came from if not from the proposed taxes?
See below.
It seems as though you believe that if certain people can't afford health insurance in the private market, or have a job that gives them insurance, that they shouldn't be allowed to have it.
Can't afford it? Give me some numbers.
Is that your position?
What have I said a dozen times? Every healthy 25 year old (and other ages) should be forced to buy a policy. Period. Not just taxed a fraction of what that policy would cost. That's this entitlement. The others would need another thread.
BTW hoow much is a fait price for insurance?
If so, let me know, and we can stop talking about this.
And yes, I was plowed at my wedding. Everyone was.
Good.
My first one we drove around with cases of Rolling Rock after seeing THE DEER HUNTER.
WSS
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Mandatory insurance for AUTO drivers has been effective for quite some time in stabilizing car insurance premiums..............
You have to create funding both from taxes AND new insurance users to expand coverage (the intent is to reduce misuse of hospitals) driving costs down while increasing efficiency.......
UNLIKE the republican Bush medicare expansion which just added costs without PAYGO rules they are creating income mechanisms to offset costs......
Medicare has crazy inflated fraud related expenses not to mention Medicaid (gateway/unison/caremark) type companies making BILLIONS from "managing" costing the taxpayers tons of money that is not going toward actual medical services but their pockets and infrastructure.......
I mean seriously the CBO just handed the Dems a major PR piece victory.......
There are offsetting tax credits for small businesses...... we will be fine.....
Not much anyone can really dispute with the CBO.
I mean seriously the CBO just handed the Dems a major PR piece victory.......
There are offsetting tax credits for small businesses...... we will be fine.....
Not much anyone can really dispute with the CBO.
Well not now, since they have allowed 72 hoursto read the bill they are finding out that they have double counted the 500 BILLION Medicare cutealong with several other numbers
Its gotta Suck for the Dems now everyone knows they are a bunch of liars.
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But Steve, I am for paying for the prescription drug plan. Because I'm for entitlement reform and balanced budgets. Just not right now, because we're in a severe recession.
And your argument for going after Medicare fraud is ...that they should have done it from day one? That's not a very good argument. I'm not even sure it is an argument. After all, they have been working on health care from day one. Jesus, let's finish this thing.
And Rolling Rock is my least favorite beer. I don't know what it is, but it might be the only one I don't enjoy. I preferred all the other shit beers to that one - Milwaukee's Best, Keystone, Busch Light, Golden Anniversary. Anything but Rolling Rock.
But the wedding? Nah. Whiskey, and lots of it. The bartenders promised to bring more than we could drink, then charge us for what we used, and keep what we didn't.
The whiskey was gone by 9:00.
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But Steve, I am for paying for the prescription drug plan. Because I'm for entitlement reform and balanced budgets. Just not right now, because we're in a severe recession.
And your argument for going after Medicare fraud is ...that they should have done it from day one? That's not a very good argument. I'm not even sure it is an argument. After all, they have been working on health care from day one. Jesus, let's finish this thing.
And Rolling Rock is my least favorite beer. I don't know what it is, but it might be the only one I don't enjoy. I preferred all the other shit beers to that one - Milwaukee's Best, Keystone, Busch Light, Golden Anniversary. Anything but Rolling Rock.
But the wedding? Nah. Whiskey, and lots of it. The bartenders promised to bring more than we could drink, then charge us for what we used, and keep what we didn't.
The whiskey was gone by 9:00.
The whiskey was gone by 9:00.
AM or PM??
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But Steve, I am for paying for the prescription drug plan. Because I'm for entitlement reform and balanced budgets. Just not right now, because we're in a severe recession.
And your argument for going after Medicare fraud is ...that they should have done it from day one? That's not a very good argument. I'm not even sure it is an argument. After all, they have been working on health care from day one. Jesus, let's finish this thing.
And Rolling Rock is my least favorite beer. I don't know what it is, but it might be the only one I don't enjoy. I preferred all the other shit beers to that one - Milwaukee's Best, Keystone, Busch Light, Golden Anniversary. Anything but Rolling Rock.
But the wedding? Nah. Whiskey, and lots of it. The bartenders promised to bring more than we could drink, then charge us for what we used, and keep what we didn't.
The whiskey was gone by 9:00.
But Steve, I am for paying for the prescription drug plan. Because I'm for entitlement reform and balanced budgets. Just not right now, because we're in a severe recession.
And your argument for going after Medicare fraud is ...that they should have done it from day one? That's not a very good argument. I'm not even sure it is an argument. After all, they have been working on health care from day one. Jesus, let's finish this thing.
And Rolling Rock is my least favorite beer. I don't know what it is, but it might be the only one I don't enjoy. I preferred all the other shit beers to that one - Milwaukee's Best, Keystone, Busch Light, Golden Anniversary. Anything but Rolling Rock.
But the wedding? Nah. Whiskey, and lots of it. The bartenders promised to bring more than we could drink, then charge us for what we used, and keep what we didn't.
The whiskey was gone by 9:00.
Yes, Rolling Rock blows.
We were channeling the DEER HUNTER wedding scene.
Before the ceremony.....
What kinda whiskey?
I'll get to the rest tomorrow.
WSS
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They drink Rolling Rock in that? Maybe it's because I always skip the long Eastern European wedding and go right to the tiger cage.
Whiskeys depend. I've got a bottle of Bushmills in my desk drawer at work. (Will be open in a couple hours.) Lagavullin or Highland Park if it's Scotch. Maker's if it's Kentucky.
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<H1 class=test1>Medicare fix would push health care into the red</H1>
Rollback of Medicare cuts to doctors, if added to health care bill, push it into the red On Friday March 19, 2010, 6:33 pm EDT
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Congressional budget scorekeepers say a Medicare fix that Democrats included in earlier versions of their health care bill would push it into the red.
The Congressional Budget Office said Friday that rolling back a programmed cut in Medicare fees to doctors would cost $208 billion over 10 years. If added back to the health care overhaul bill, it would wipe out all the deficit reduction, leaving the legislation $59 billion in the red.
The so-called doc fix was part of the original House bill. Because of its high cost, Democrats decided to pursue it separately. Republicans say the cost should not be ignored. Congress has usually waived the cuts to doctors year by year.
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How we got here within 90 seconds.
Page 22 of the HC Bill: Mandates that the Govt will audit books of all employers that self-insure!!
Page 30 Sec 123 of HC bill: THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.
Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill: YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!!
Page 42 of HC Bill: The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC benefits for you. You have no choice!
Page 50 Section 152 in HC bill: HC will be provided to ALL non-US citizens, illegal or otherwise.
Page 58 HC Bill: Govt will have real-time access to individualsâ finances & a âNational ID Health cardâ will be issued!
Page 59 HC Bill lines 21-24: Govt will have direct access to your bank accounts for elective funds transfer.
Page 65 Sec 164: Is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in unions & community organizations: (ACORN).
Page 84 Sec 203 HC bill: Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the âExchange.â
Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans â The Govt will ration your health care!
Page 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill: Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services. (Translation: illegal aliens.)
Page 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18: The Govt will use groups (i.e. ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan.
Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans. (AARP members â your health care WILL be rationed!)
Page 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill: Medicaid eligible individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. (No choice.)
Page 124 lines 24-25 HC: No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No âjudicial reviewâ against Govt monopoly.
Page 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill: Doctors/ American Medical Association â The Govt will tell YOU what salary you can make.
Page 145 Line 15-17: An Employer MUST auto-enroll employees into public option plan. (NO choice!)
Page 126 Lines 22-25: Employers MUST pay for HC for part-time employees ANDtheir families. (Employees shouldnât get excited about this as employers will be forced to reduce its work force, benefits, and wages/salaries to cover such a huge expense.)
Page 149 Lines 16-24: ANY Employer with payroll 401k & above who does not provide public option will pay 8% tax on all payroll! (See the last comment in parenthesis.)
Page 150 Lines 9-13: A business with payroll between $251K & $401K who doesnât provide public option will pay 2-6% tax on all payroll.
Page 167 Lines 18-23: ANY individual who doesnât have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income.
Page 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill: Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay.)
Page 195 HC Bill: Officers & employees of the GOVT HC Admin.. will have access to ALL Americansâ finances and personal records.
Page 203 Line 14-15 HC: âThe tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax.â (Yes, it really says that!)
Page 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill: Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid Seniors. (Low-income and the poor are affected)
Page 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill: Doctors: It doesnât matter what specialty you have trained yourself in â you will all be paid the same! (Just TRY to tell me thatâs not Socialism!)
Page 253 Line 10-18: The Govt sets the value of a doctorâs time, profession, judgment, etc. (Literallyâ the value of humans.)
Page 265 Sec 1131: The Govt mandates and controls productivity for âprivateâ HC industries.
Page 268 Sec 1141: The federal Govt regulates the rental and purchase of power driven wheelchairs.
Page 272 SEC. 1145: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS â Cancer patients â welcome to rationing!
Page 280 Sec 1151: The Govt will penalize hospitals for whatever the Govt deems preventable (i.eâŚre-admissions).
Page 298 Lines 9-11: Doctors: If you treat a patient during initial admission that results in a re-admission â the Govt will penalize you.
Page 317 L 13-20: PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. (The Govt tells doctors what and how much they can own!)
Page 317-318 lines 21-25, 1-3: PROHIBITION on expansion. (The Govt is mandating that hospitals cannot expand.)
Page 321 2-13: Hospitals have the opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input is required. (Can you say ACORN?)
Page 335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339: The Govt mandates establishment of=2 outcome-based measures. (HC the way they want â rationing.)
Page 341 Lines 3-9: The Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Advance Plans, HMOs, etc. (Forcing people into the Govt plan)
Page 354 Sec 1177: The Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of âspecial needs people!â Unbelievable!
Page 379 Sec 1191: The Govt creates more bureaucracy via a âTele-Health Advisory Committee.â (Can you say HC by phone?)
Page 425 Lines 4-12: The Govt mandates âAdvance-Care Planning Consult.â (Think senior citizens end-of-life patients.)
Page 425 Lines 17-19: The Govt will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. (And itâs mandatory!)
Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3: The Govt provides an âapprovedâ list of end-of-life resources; guiding you in death. (Also called âassisted suicide.â)
Page 427 Lines 15-24: The Govt mandates a program for orders on âend-of-life.â (The Govt has a say in how your life ends!)
Page 429 Lines 1-9: An âadvanced-care planning consultantâ will be used frequently as a patientâs health deteriorates.
Page 429 Lines 10-12: An âadvanced care consultationâ may include an ORDER for end-of-life plans.. (AN ORDER TO DIE FROM THE GOVERNMENT?!?)
Page 429 Lines 13-25: The GOVT will specify which doctors can write an end-of-life order.. (I wouldnât want to stand before God after getting paid for THAT job!)
Page 430 Lines 11-15: The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end â of-life! (Again â no choice!)
Page 469: Community-Based Home Medical Services = Non-Profit Organizations. (Hello? ACORN Medical Services here!?!)
Page 489 Sec 1308: The Govt will cover marriage and family therapy. (Which means Govt will insert itself into your marriage even.)
Page 494-498: Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, and rationing those services.
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Now, we should feel bad.
Heck is out there frantically consulting with his political cronies at work,
trying to come up with a retort to avoid the issue, via groupthink.
We are SO bad.
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