What's Wrong with Claussen?
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It is probably the whole "Notre Dame" QB thing for most people. But for me, it isn't necessarily an "anti-Clausen" bias, it is the fact that I don't think we should use our first round pick to take a QB. We have so many holes, so many needs that I think we need to build up the rest of the jigsaw puzzle, and only insert a QB as a last piece at the end.
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well, I just personally think his numbers were highly inflated due to the level of competition he played this year. I'd have to drag out my old post (which i may cause work is extremely slow today) but I believe 5 of the teams Notre Dame played this year had total team defenses in the 90's. That includes Washington State who was dead last in total defense. Even the decent teams they played were so-so. I'll admit, he's accurate and does have a better arm than Quinn, but he floats his deep ball which really concerns me.
I'll admit it too, I just don't want to see another ND QB for a while.
Edit: here's those ranks I was talking about
Nevada:96
Michigan: 82
Michigan st: 73
Purdue:69
Washington:79
USC:40
Boston College: 26
Washington St: 120 (dead last)
Navy: 34
Pittsburgh:23
Uconn: 62
Stanford:90
so it was 3 that were 90th or worse, 8 below the 60 mark
well, I just personally think his numbers were highly inflated due to the level of competition he played this year. I'd have to drag out my old post (which i may cause work is extremely slow today) but I believe 5 of the teams Notre Dame played this year had total team defenses in the 90's. That includes Washington State who was dead last in total defense. Even the decent teams they played were so-so. I'll admit, he's accurate and does have a better arm than Quinn, but he floats his deep ball which really concerns me.
I'll admit it too, I just don't want to see another ND QB for a while.
Edit: here's those ranks I was talking about
Nevada:96
Michigan: 82
Michigan st: 73
Purdue:69
Washington:79
USC:40
Boston College: 26
Washington St: 120 (dead last)
Navy: 34
Pittsburgh:23
Uconn: 62
Stanford:90
so it was 3 that were 90th or worse, 8 below the 60 mark
Those rankings tell the story on why he is not qualified.
Head or Gut? -
the clausen - ND thing does have a real point, which is that he is product of the same system that failed quinn. its not an indictment of clausen per-say, its weiss' failure for not getting these guys ready. quinn was far....FAR....from the product he was touted for. for me, its not a ND thing as much as a weiss thing.
otherwise, i dont like his attitude. period. thats my opinion.
that said, if we take him.....i'll bite. it looks like we might have the structure to keep guys like him in check and teach them the right way. i'd just rather take other positions high this year, as i prefer to build the team first with a vet teaching them from the helm. then, you can have a vet team teach the young guy at the helm.
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well, I just personally think his numbers were highly inflated due to the level of competition he played this year. I'd have to drag out my old post (which i may cause work is extremely slow today) but I believe 5 of the teams Notre Dame played this year had total team defenses in the 90's. That includes Washington State who was dead last in total defense. Even the decent teams they played were so-so. I'll admit, he's accurate and does have a better arm than Quinn, but he floats his deep ball which really concerns me.
I'll admit it too, I just don't want to see another ND QB for a while.
Edit: here's those ranks I was talking about
Nevada:96
Michigan: 82
Michigan st: 73
Purdue:69
Washington:79
USC:40
Boston College: 26
Washington St: 120 (dead last)
Navy: 34
Pittsburgh:23
Uconn: 62
Stanford:90
so it was 3 that were 90th or worse, 8 below the 60 mark
Those rankings tell the story on why he is not qualified.
Those rankings tell the story on why he is not qualified.
Oops, I accidentally hit thanks. Those stats hav. Absolutely no bearing on whether or not he is qualified. It just means that he plays against bad teams. How do those stats mean that he is horrible? Exactly. It's not his fault he plays an easier schedule. Jrb made a good point that his stats are inflated by these teams. That is a valid point. However, it doesn't mean he's not qualified. Mr T., you're argument isn't even an argument: it's the bias opinion I am trying to avoid here. Please come back with a better argument- or even an argument period.
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Claussen reportedly is hugely stuck on himself, like a Joe Namath who thinks he's Napoleon, in my own words... @@
here's just one clip of stuff from Hogheaven.com:
*********************************************
Pros:
First of all, he didn't bitch unless he noticed someone not hustling (something that he really didn't like), he was a team guy. People don't think he is out there for stats, he apparently loves football and has a huge desire to win.
He is very passionate about the sport, he is dedicated to being the best he can be, he is a competitor and will do anything to win, he hangs out with the football players, he is maturing very well.
Cons:
Just about everyone pointed to the fact that he is not a natural leader. They refused to give particular examples but just about everyone respects him. One player said, "If the Redskins are looking for a great leader, someone to bring the locker room together, and ignite a new desire to win, look elsewhere. But his football ability is unquestionable."
Clausen has this larger than life mentality. Word is that he showed up to campus his freshman year wearing a crown, but that might be a little irrelevant because then he was just a 19 year old kid. He has a very pompous attitude and is no fun to talk to, but then again I am not on the football team. He was punched in the face outside a bar following the UCONN game which we lost. Some people there said that he instigated it, but I don't know for sure. People around campus don't like him. Girls think he is ugly, guys think he is a cocky prick.
He tries to be the team leader but lacks natural skills. He apparently puts forth the effort. The team appreciates this and trusts his abilities on the field. [One teammate] said going in [when he first joined the team], he thought Clausen was going to be a prick. It turns out that he does not fit the profile others believe him to have. He is a little immature and likes to have fun but never takes it too far. And again it was noted that he is maturing.
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Zombo said:
He's ugly. If the cute Notre Dame QB didn't work out, why draft the ugly one?Zombo
LOL,
I'm sold on that no more convincing needed here.
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I don't have anything against taking Clausen (although his deep ball bothers me) but I don't want to see us use #7 on him. It's true that we don't play Navy every week but at the same time Joe Flacco wasn't exactly playing against top competition at Delaware. CFFL, you are a huge ND fan and you don't want people bashing Jimmy Clausen. That's fine but when the guy shows up in a limo and does immature stuff people don't care that he was 18. If you do it, it stays in people's memories. Is that fair? Probably not, but you don't see lots of guys trying to draw attention to themselves. If you hate because of facts, that's one thing. If you hate due to perception, that's altogether different. The thing is though that QB's perhaps more than any other position evoke a real visceral response from people. People have gut feelings about QBs more than any other position and they aren't afraid to share their opinions. Why do people hate McCoy or Tebow? Why do they hate guys who've had success on the college level but never thrown an NFL pass? If you want to say that it's because they "played in such and such a system" or point out specific observations those are fair concerns but people may disagree.
If you want to "hate" someone coming out in the draft, hate somebody who really deserves it. Hate on stupid guys who pull the Michael Crabtree or the Dez Bryant.
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I don't have anything against taking Clausen (although his deep ball bothers me) but I don't want to see us use #7 on him. It's true that we don't play Navy every week but at the same time Joe Flacco wasn't exactly playing against top competition at Delaware. CFFL, you are a huge ND fan and you don't want people bashing Jimmy Clausen. That's fine but when the guy shows up in a limo and does immature stuff people don't care that he was 18. If you do it, it stays in people's memories. Is that fair? Probably not, but you don't see lots of guys trying to draw attention to themselves. If you hate because of facts, that's one thing. If you hate due to perception, that's altogether different. The thing is though that QB's perhaps more than any other position evoke a real visceral response from people. People have gut feelings about QBs more than any other position and they aren't afraid to share their opinions. Why do people hate McCoy or Tebow? Why do they hate guys who've had success on the college level but never thrown an NFL pass? If you want to say that it's because they "played in such and such a system" or point out specific observations those are fair concerns but people may disagree.
If you want to "hate" someone coming out in the draft, hate somebody who really deserves it. Hate on stupid guys who pull the Michael Crabtree or the Dez Bryant.
I don't have anything against taking Clausen (although his deep ball bothers me) but I don't want to see us use #7 on him. It's true that we don't play Navy every week but at the same time Joe Flacco wasn't exactly playing against top competition at Delaware. CFFL, you are a huge ND fan and you don't want people bashing Jimmy Clausen. That's fine but when the guy shows up in a limo and does immature stuff people don't care that he was 18. If you do it, it stays in people's memories. Is that fair? Probably not, but you don't see lots of guys trying to draw attention to themselves. If you hate because of facts, that's one thing. If you hate due to perception, that's altogether different. The thing is though that QB's perhaps more than any other position evoke a real visceral response from people. People have gut feelings about QBs more than any other position and they aren't afraid to share their opinions. Why do people hate McCoy or Tebow? Why do they hate guys who've had success on the college level but never thrown an NFL pass? If you want to say that it's because they "played in such and such a system" or point out specific observations those are fair concerns but people may disagree.
If you want to "hate" someone coming out in the draft, hate somebody who really deserves it. Hate on stupid guys who pull the Michael Crabtree or the Dez Bryant.
good point. i did hate it when he acted like he was an all american in that limo. he needed to be brought back down to earth.
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I'd have to say it's his Jay Culter-esque personality. It a personality trait that doesn't fit into our locker room and especially one I don't want with the person who would be the face of the franchise to have. Skills-wise, I'm a little worried about his long range passes. I feel like he floated them a bit much and relied on his strong receiving core to bring them down. Other than that, I'm fine with his physical traits
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the fact that he comes from the same system as Brady Quinn, and a huge portion of his yards thrown were YAC by his receivers such as Golden Tate.
I want nothing to do with him.
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I remember him almost getting chased out of South Bend for being and interception machine a few years ago and then all of the sudden he is the best QB in the draft because he had a great year? I don't think so. Plus, I am ready to take a break from the whole Notre Dame QB game. It's easy to have falsely inflated talent when you play a cupcake schedule. Joe Montana was the exception, not the rule.
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I remember him almost getting chased out of South Bend for being and interception machine a few years ago and then all of the sudden he is the best QB in the draft because he had a great year? I don't think so. Plus, I am ready to take a break from the whole Notre Dame QB game. It's easy to have falsely inflated talent when you play a cupcake schedule. Joe Montana was the exception, not the rule.
I remember him almost getting chased out of South Bend for being and interception machine a few years ago and then all of the sudden he is the best QB in the draft because he had a great year? I don't think so. Plus, I am ready to take a break from the whole Notre Dame QB game. It's easy to have falsely inflated talent when you play a cupcake schedule. Joe Montana was the exception, not the rule.
I have to say it looks like you are right. Here is a list of Notre Dame QBs who have played in the NFL since 1960:
Paul Hornung
George Izo
George Wilson
Joe Theisman
Brady Quinn
Joe Montana
Rick Mirer
Rusty Lisch
Darryl LaMonica
Greg Knafelc
Blair Kiel
Ken Karcher
Jarious Jackson
John Huarte
Terry Hanratty
Tom Clement
Steve Beuerlein
Hornung didn't play QB in the pros, so, as I see it, that gives you only 3 real good ones on this list: Montana obviously, Theisman, and Lamonica. Steve Beuerlein was also serviceable. Izo is an unknown name, but was decent at best. So, where is the production?
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So, check this out. Many here are Ohio State fans, in addition to being Browns fans. So, in "griping" about the Pro quality of the Notre Dame QBs, I think we have to look at our Buckeye program and see how it has fared in terms of providing quality QBs to the pros. The answer is: not too good. Here is a list of all the Buckeye starting QBs since 1960. Evaluate if you will how these guys have performed in the pros, (if they ever even made it):
Tom Matte
John Mummey
Bill Mrukowski
Don Unverferth
Bill Long
Rex Kern
Don Lamka
Greg Hare
Cornelius Greene
Rod Gerald
Art Schlichter
Mike Tomczak
Jim Karsatos
Tom Tupa
Greg Frey
Kent Graham
Kirk Herbstreit
Bobby Hoying
Stanley Jackson
Joe Germaine
Steve Bellisari (sorry)
Craig Krenzel
Justin Zwick
Troy Smith
Todd Boeckman
Terrelle Pryor.
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So, check this out. Many here are Ohio State fans, in addition to being Browns fans. So, in "griping" about the Pro quality of the Notre Dame QBs, I think we have to look at our Buckeye program and see how it has fared in terms of providing quality QBs to the pros. The answer is: not too good. Here is a list of all the Buckeye starting QBs since 1960. Evaluate if you will how these guys have performed in the pros, (if they ever even made it):
Tom Matte
John Mummey
Bill Mrukowski
Don Unverferth
Bill Long
Rex Kern
Don Lamka
Greg Hare
Cornelius Greene
Rod Gerald
Art Schlichter
Mike Tomczak
Jim Karsatos
Tom Tupa
Greg Frey
Kent Graham
Kirk Herbstreit
Bobby Hoying
Stanley Jackson
Joe Germaine
Steve Bellisari (sorry)
Craig Krenzel
Justin Zwick
Troy Smith
Todd Boeckman
Terrelle Pryor.
So, check this out. Many here are Ohio State fans, in addition to being Browns fans. So, in "griping" about the Pro quality of the Notre Dame QBs, I think we have to look at our Buckeye program and see how it has fared in terms of providing quality QBs to the pros. The answer is: not too good. Here is a list of all the Buckeye starting QBs since 1960. Evaluate if you will how these guys have performed in the pros, (if they ever even made it):
OK, having put this info out, I will complete it by giving you the stats on these guys in their pro careers. This info all comes from Pro Football Reference:
Tom Matte... played 12 years for the Colts at halfback. Had 4646 career rush yards. He did pass for 246 yards and 2 TDs, and was famous for the playoff game against the Packers where he filled in for Unitas and Morrall when both went down injured.
John Mummey
Bill Mrukowski
Don Unverferth
Bill Long
Rex Kern
Don Lamka
Greg Hare
Cornelius Greene
Rod Gerald
none of the above ever played in the NFL
Art Schlichter...3 years, 1006 passing yards, 3 TD passes (and at least as many felony convictions)
Mike Tomczak...15 years, 16,000 passing yards, 88 TD passes. The best stats of any OSU QB to date.
Jim Karsatos...never played in NFL
Tom Tupa...16 years, mostly as a punter. Did have 3430 passing yard and 12 TD passes, but also 873 career punts
Greg Frey...never played in the NFL
Kent Graham...9 years, 7801 yards, 39 TD passes
Kirk Herbstreit..never played in the NFL
Bobby Hoying...5years, 2544 yards, 11 TD passes
Stanley Jackson...never played in the NFL
Joe Germaine...1 year, 16 attempts, 1 TD pass (but became an Arena League star)
Steve Bellisari (sorry)...never played in the NFL
Craig Krenzel...1 year, 718 yards, 3 TDs (could have stayed longer but gave it up to pursue medical career)
Justin Zwick...never played in NFL
Troy Smith...has played 3 years. 558 yards, 3 TD passes. Only former OSU QB still active in NFL.
Todd Boeckman..never played in NFL
Terrelle Pryor... To Be Determined
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He's a douchebag.
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