Evolution of the Cleveland Browns
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Excellent post.
I would agree that Holmgren gives the team the credibility to say "I made this decision and that's that..." whereas Mangini would have been endlessly barraged with the same inane questions regarding the most minor things. The buck stops with The Big Show.
I think that Mangini's vision must be one hell of an organized and logical one because Holmgren bought into it when we were all led to believe that Mangini was a goner.
When you look at this roster you think of how many cancers were excised. You look at what's there and you see guys who are pros and who fit their roles. You see guys who reflect the blue collar town of Cleveland and you're proud that they represent you.
You look at this front office and you say to yourself that they are starting to resemble the Green Bays or the Philadelphias (obviously) and that's a GOOD thing. No longer are we going to be held hostage by the malcontents. No longer are we going to blow a draft-gasm to move up and select a choice that makes zero sense. Looking back on this draft, we see players that perhaps confused us at first but on the whole, it makes a lot of sense. We got tougher. We got more aggressive. We got faster. We got smarter.
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additionally, we'd be screwed this year if Mangini didn't stockpile the picks and dump the cap hazard cancers. he laid the foundation to make MH's job easier, hence turn this train wreck around.
kudos.....despite the haters. makes them look all the more foolish.
kudos.....despite the haters. makes them look all the more foolish.
Which includes everyone at WKNR.
Apart from empty platitudes, I haven't heard anything reasonable on that station regarding the Browns in so long. I couldn't believe how every last one of them was set against Mangini, and their arguments were terrible! Grossi is a genuis by comparison. -
Great thread!
Mangini has been extremely courageous to stand by his principles in the face of some very personal attacks. He committed to his plan & stuck to it. That's the kind of man we need as Coach of the Browns & it's the kind of man we HAVE as our Coach. I am very glad that Holmgren stood by him.
We will all benefit from this TEAM of leaders.
Mike
IN DORSEY I TRUST -
i think its funny that 95% of this board wanted Mangini fired last year, and now you all thin hes the greatest thing since Jim Brown......I glad to see he has changed your mind....
BTW...Great post mopaji
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Great post, mopaji!
My favorite quote of this past week:
Holmgren says, "I made the decision to keep Eric [Mangini] and every day I know I did the right thing."
As much as I love Cribbs, I have to say that, as a fan, Mangini is my favorite Brown.
As much as I love Cribbs, I have to say that, as a fan, Mangini is my favorite Brown.
WOW!
can't decide if that says a lot for EM or not much for our team.
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Great thread!
Mangini has been extremely courageous to stand by his principles in the face of some very personal attacks. He committed to his plan & stuck to it. That's the kind of man we need as Coach of the Browns & it's the kind of man we HAVE as our Coach. I am very glad that Holmgren stood by him.
We will all benefit from this TEAM of leaders.
Mike
Great thread!
Mangini has been extremely courageous to stand by his principles in the face of some very personal attacks. He committed to his plan & stuck to it. That's the kind of man we need as Coach of the Browns & it's the kind of man we HAVE as our Coach. I am very glad that Holmgren stood by him.
We will all benefit from this TEAM of leaders.
Mike
I have to admit, I was one of the guys who wanted Mangini gone @ the bye, but (unlike some posters) I'm not afraid to admit I was wrong.
If Holmgren pulled rank and drafted MCoy, that's a good thing. MH has coached 3 HOFers and several other Pro-Bowl QBs, so if he thinks McCoy may be the answer- it's certainly worth taking a shot on him, especially in the third round. I wanted Andersuck out of town yesterday, and if McDaniels is convinced Quinn is all that hot a qb, why did he go out and draft Tebow?
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Great thread!
Mangini has been extremely courageous to stand by his principles in the face of some very personal attacks. He committed to his plan & stuck to it. That's the kind of man we need as Coach of the Browns & it's the kind of man we HAVE as our Coach. I am very glad that Holmgren stood by him.
We will all benefit from this TEAM of leaders.
Mike
I have to admit, I was one of the guys who wanted Mangini gone @ the bye, but (unlike some posters) I'm not afraid to admit I was wrong.
If Holmgren pulled rank and drafted MCoy, that's a good thing. MH has coached 3 HOFers and several other Pro-Bowl QBs, so if he thinks McCoy may be the answer- it's certainly worth taking a shot on him, especially in the third round. I wanted Andersuck out of town yesterday, and if McDaniels is convinced Quinn is all that hot a qb, why did he go out and draft Tebow?
I have to admit, I was one of the guys who wanted Mangini gone @ the bye, but (unlike some posters) I'm not afraid to admit I was wrong.
If Holmgren pulled rank and drafted MCoy, that's a good thing. MH has coached 3 HOFers and several other Pro-Bowl QBs, so if he thinks McCoy may be the answer- it's certainly worth taking a shot on him, especially in the third round. I wanted Andersuck out of town yesterday, and if McDaniels is convinced Quinn is all that hot a qb, why did he go out and draft Tebow?
I was always a Mangini supporter, but I WAS (and posted to that effect) angry when he pulled Brady as quickly as he did. I still think that was a mistake, but also part of his (Mangini's) learning process. I also believe that with Holmgren working with him, we won't see the snap judgments we saw at times last year.
I'm also mystified with the QB thing in Denver???
Mike
IN DORSEY I TRUST -
He had to keep looking at Mangini and then say what are you thinking.
i'm curious about the tone here, assuming it to be more "So Eric, what are you thinking here at this pick?" as opposed to "WHAT THE EFF ARE YOU THINKING?!?!? TAKE HIM NOW!!!"
i suspect no conspiracy, no "hahaha! if he makes bad picks i am free from responsibility, let's see if he falls on his face!!!"
i believe Holmgren is genuinely happy to have EM and has full confidence in him, and he's fortunate to have him as well imo...Holmgren just gets all the credit.
also after adding Jake and Seneca i feel the QB position was serviceable and not a huge need on their board, more of a situation where if a guy they valued really fell they'd consider taking him. this seems to be the exact situation they were faced with.
--in Mangini i trust--
i'm curious about the tone here, assuming it to be more "So Eric, what are you thinking here at this pick?" as opposed to "WHAT THE EFF ARE YOU THINKING?!?!? TAKE HIM NOW!!!"
i suspect no conspiracy, no "hahaha! if he makes bad picks i am free from responsibility, let's see if he falls on his face!!!"
i believe Holmgren is genuinely happy to have EM and has full confidence in him, and he's fortunate to have him as well imo...Holmgren just gets all the credit.
also after adding Jake and Seneca i feel the QB position was serviceable and not a huge need on their board, more of a situation where if a guy they valued really fell they'd consider taking him. this seems to be the exact situation they were faced with.
--in Mangini i trust--
I agree. I don't think the browns had to take a qb just to take one. It doesn't make any sense to select one to season if you don't think seasoning is going to help. You can season a tough piece of meat to make it taste ok, but you can't get it to taste like a prime steak, and you sure as heck don't want to eat it every night.
I think by the 3rd round the potential of McCoy and the pick started to match...the risk/reward started to balance.
I don't think McCoy is ever going to be the best QB in the league, but he has a chance of being pretty solid to very good...or, not so good...as a 3rd rounder....not the first one taken, it won't kill us if he flops.
We hope he doesn't, but it won't cripple us if he goes the route of most of the other qbs we have drafted.
Stick him on the bench with open ears and open mind for a year or two, then see if he is the guy or not, but i don't look at him as the heir apparent....he is a player on the team who has to show what he has.
Let's put it this way, I don't know who all the top QB prospects are next year, but if the top one or two fell in to our laps, i don't think McCoy would be the reason we might pass on them. I don't think Colt is that type of prospect in the minds of the team. Nice prospect?? You bet. The guy you have inked in as your QB the next 12 years??? No.
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i think its funny that 95% of this board wanted Mangini fired last year, and now you all thin hes the greatest thing since Jim Brown......I glad to see he has changed your mind....
BTW...Great post mopaji
i think its funny that 95% of this board wanted Mangini fired last year, and now you all thin hes the greatest thing since Jim Brown......I glad to see he has changed your mind....
BTW...Great post mopaji
I think you are wrong. Only about 60% wanted him gone.
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i think its funny that 95% of this board wanted Mangini fired last year, and now you all thin hes the greatest thing since Jim Brown......I glad to see he has changed your mind....
BTW...Great post mopaji
I think you are wrong. Only about 60% wanted him gone.
I think you are wrong. Only about 60% wanted him gone.
I'll go somewhere between you guys and say 76%.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
I have to admit, I was one of the guys who wanted Mangini gone @ the bye, but (unlike some posters) I'm not afraid to admit I was wrong.
If Holmgren pulled rank and drafted MCoy, that's a good thing. MH has coached 3 HOFers and several other Pro-Bowl QBs, so if he thinks McCoy may be the answer- it's certainly worth taking a shot on him, especially in the third round. I wanted Andersuck out of town yesterday, and if McDaniels is convinced Quinn is all that hot a qb, why did he go out and draft Tebow?
I was always a Mangini supporter, but I WAS (and posted to that effect) angry when he pulled Brady as quickly as he did. I still think that was a mistake, but also part of his (Mangini's) learning process. I also believe that with Holmgren working with him, we won't see the snap judgments we saw at times last year.
I'm also mystified with the QB thing in Denver???
Mike
I was always a Mangini supporter, but I WAS (and posted to that effect) angry when he pulled Brady as quickly as he did. I still think that was a mistake, but also part of his (Mangini's) learning process. I also believe that with Holmgren working with him, we won't see the snap judgments we saw at times last year.
I'm also mystified with the QB thing in Denver???
Mike
I know it's all speculation but I am really convinced that Lerner wanted Brady in there to stir up support from the fans. I think the short leash was a result of Mangini saying "see Randy, the kid can't do it". This hunch of mine grew stronger after I saw just how resalute and decisive EM has been with everything else. There was some tugging going on in the background early last year and Kokinis was a casualty of that. EM knew how to fix it and Lerner wasn't comfortable with all of the quick change. Coach knew what he was doing all along and it took Holmgren singing Mangini's praises for everyone else to get in line and let the guy work. It's a shame it took some people so long but at least it happened.
"Chances are, if you think Jay Leno is funny, I don't care for you as a person" - Peter Griffin -
I think you could be right, Mo.
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I was always a Mangini supporter, but I WAS (and posted to that effect) angry when he pulled Brady as quickly as he did. I still think that was a mistake, but also part of his (Mangini's) learning process. I also believe that with Holmgren working with him, we won't see the snap judgments we saw at times last year.
I'm also mystified with the QB thing in Denver???
Mike
I know it's all speculation but I am really convinced that Lerner wanted Brady in there to stir up support from the fans. I think the short leash was a result of Mangini saying "see Randy, the kid can't do it". This hunch of mine grew stronger after I saw just how resalute and decisive EM has been with everything else. There was some tugging going on in the background early last year and Kokinis was a casualty of that. EM knew how to fix it and Lerner wasn't comfortable with all of the quick change. Coach knew what he was doing all along and it took Holmgren singing Mangini's praises for everyone else to get in line and let the guy work. It's a shame it took some people so long but at least it happened.
I know it's all speculation but I am really convinced that Lerner wanted Brady in there to stir up support from the fans. I think the short leash was a result of Mangini saying "see Randy, the kid can't do it". This hunch of mine grew stronger after I saw just how resalute and decisive EM has been with everything else. There was some tugging going on in the background early last year and Kokinis was a casualty of that. EM knew how to fix it and Lerner wasn't comfortable with all of the quick change. Coach knew what he was doing all along and it took Holmgren singing Mangini's praises for everyone else to get in line and let the guy work. It's a shame it took some people so long but at least it happened.
I tend to think you hit the nail right on the head with this one. Of course, Mangini cannot come out and say this BUT with how he acted about everything and how things went down, you certainly got the feeling Quinn was jammed down his throat. Mangini, i think with last years experience, learned a lot about himself as a coach in terms of going through the ringer like he did. His positive attributes rose to the top and Holmgren saw that. I tell you what won me over, there was an interview he gave in the middle of the year last year which was some of the best journalism i've seen in sometime. Basically, the guy interviewing Mangini wanted to see if he was as big of an idiot/villain as he was being portrayed as. (the article was posted on here) It showed you a man who you could tell KNOWS football and a man who cares about doing things the right way and the Browns way.
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As much as I love Cribbs, I have to say that, as a fan, Mangini is my favorite Brown.
WOW!
can't decide if that says a lot for EM or not much for our team.
QUOTE (professor_g @ Apr 26 2010, 04:29 PM)
As much as I love Cribbs, I have to say that, as a fan, Mangini is my favorite Brown.
WOW!
can't decide if that says a lot for EM or not much for our team.
Ha, I know it sounds pretty sad. RB is my favorite position, and usually my favorite Brown is just the current RB. But I have to give the nod to Mangini because I found myself thinking just the other day: I NEED a Browns poster for my office wall, and Mangini's got to be in the poster somewhere because nearly everything I like about the current team makes me think of Mangini.
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Mangini inherited a team filled with terribly over-paid CFL talent, drama from underacheiving primadonnas an incredibly ill-equipped yet vocal fan-base, and a 4-12 team with zero cap space. Not to mention a bull's eye on his back from the NFL for his role as a whistle-blower in spygate. How did he respond?
He got as many stand-up, classy, smart, team oriented players on this team in year one as he could. Despite being met with much resistance from the above mentioned primadonnas as well as the fan-base and media, he stuck to his vision all the while assuring us all that it works. And wouldn't you know it, he finished the season with 4 straight wins and a Gatorade bath from players that we were told hated him. At the end of last season players gave off the impression that they did not want the season to end despite only winning 5 games. And now, with the blue-collar core of this team in place and a philosophy and culture completely turned-around he has the support of his players and a roster full of guys who know how to do their jobs.
Enter 2010 draft weekend. With a solid foundation, he has now inserted at least half a dozen bruising, physical, smart young players in very important positions on the team. He is continuing the face-lift of this team and turning us into the type of team we loved in the 80's. Smart, classy, blue-collared, and above all, physical players. And because of the foundation of players laid last year, these young players are now in a much better position to succeed on this team. And do not kid yourselves, this was a Mangini draft. He told Heckert what he was looking for and Heckert delivered.
His vision is becoming clear to everyone even the Grossis of the world. Because of last year, this year was possible. He endured infinte criticism throughout last year and stuck to his guns. Admitting and demonstrating that he didn't care what was said about him, he was going to build a team. And he did. Of course we have yet to see how all of this will translate onto the field but for the first time in a long time, we can see an identity and a culture being put in place in Berea. And it is almost completely credited to what Mangini has done since coming to Cleveland. And it provides plenty of reason to be excited about our team again. Nomore backing into the playoffs like in 2003. Nomore paper tigers like what we saw in 2007. This is becoming a franchise again and we should all be very, very excited about that.
These are my Browns.
*drops the mic*
We have disagreed many times, vociferously, on many topics. This is certainly not one of those times. Good post.
We have disagreed many times, vociferously, on many topics. This is certainly not one of those times. Good post.
and you and I as well, and indeed this was an excellent post...........good times are coming
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and you and I as well, and indeed this was an excellent post...........good times are coming
Stop it! The world is going to end!
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Awesome post, mopaji. One of the best I have read in a long time.
And Gips, I'm glad to see you're willing to adjust your take on Coach Mangini as well. Good times all around.
I know we're all still in the post-draft euphoria, but there is no doubt when you look at the roster from January '09 when Mangini was hired to today there's three common themes: Increased talent, toughness, and intelligence.
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