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ATENEARS

Just to weigh-in a little bit more for Heckert, check this out:

This is Heckerts Draft picks of his first season with Philly, vs his First season with the Browns?

2002 - Philadelphia Eagles Rd Sel # Player Position School

1 26 Lito Sheppard CB Florida

2 58 Michael M. Lewis SS Colorado

2 59 Sheldon Brown CB South Carolina

3 91 Brian Westbrook RB Villanova

4 124 Scott Peters C Arizona State

5 162 Freddie Milons WR Alabama

6 198 Tyreo Harrison LB Notre Dame

7 238 Raheem Brock DE Temple

VS

2010

1st Rd 7th pick Joe Haden CB 5'11" 193 Florida

2nd Rd 6th pick T.J. Ward FS 5'10" 211 Oregon

2st Rd 27th pick Montario Hardesty RB 6'0" 225 Tennessee

3rd Rd 21st pick Colt McCoy QB 6'1" 216 Texas

3rd Rd 28th pick Shawn Lauvao OG 6'2" 315 Arizona State

5th Rd 29th pick Larry Asante SS 6" 212 Nebraska

6th Rd 8th pick Carlton Mitchell WR 6'3" 215 USF

6th Rd 17th pick Clifton Geathers DE 6'8" 285 South Carolina

Pretty much the same template, no? Assuming Holmgren pushed to pick Colt McCoy, the drafts are almost identical.

Riffer X

KNR are completely biased against Mangie, and I mean all of them. It really is sorta disgraceful for a media entity to be that obtuse.

mopaji

@atenears said:
Just to weigh-in a little bit more for Heckert, check this out:
This is Heckerts Draft picks of his first season with Philly, vs his First season with the Browns?

2002 - Philadelphia Eagles Rd Sel # Player Position School

1 26 Lito Sheppard CB Florida

2 58 Michael M. Lewis SS Colorado

2 59 Sheldon Brown CB South Carolina

3 91 Brian Westbrook RB Villanova

4 124 Scott Peters C Arizona State

5 162 Freddie Milons WR Alabama

6 198 Tyreo Harrison LB Notre Dame

7 238 Raheem Brock DE Temple

VS

2010

1st Rd 7th pick Joe Haden CB 5'11" 193 Florida

2nd Rd 6th pick T.J. Ward FS 5'10" 211 Oregon

2st Rd 27th pick Montario Hardesty RB 6'0" 225 Tennessee

3rd Rd 21st pick Colt McCoy QB 6'1" 216 Texas

3rd Rd 28th pick Shawn Lauvao OG 6'2" 315 Arizona State

5th Rd 29th pick Larry Asante SS 6" 212 Nebraska

6th Rd 8th pick Carlton Mitchell WR 6'3" 215 USF

6th Rd 17th pick Clifton Geathers DE 6'8" 285 South Carolina

Pretty much the same template, no? Assuming Holmgren pushed to pick Colt McCoy, the drafts are almost identical.

I'm glad you brought this up Stan. One of the reasons I was so excited about Heckert being here is because he and Mangini have always had similiar drafts. Mangini said it himself when Heckert was hired. Philly took a lot of guys that the Jets had their eye on. And they had players graded very similiar to how Mangini had guys graded.

And Gips, another good point. GMs are more likely to hurt your franchise rather than help. Coaches go after who they want and when you have a GM who sees the team the same way the coach does (like Heckert and Mangini) you have successful drafts. When you have a GM who thinks he is as important as some of our fans do then you have a Savage/Crennel situation where the GM isn't giving the coach the guys he wants and needs torun his team.

All in all, this was a Mangini draft and he will have to live and die with the results and that is how it should be. I just wish he would get more credit. Although, I don't think he cares about that.

mopaji

@riffer-x said:
KNR are completely biased against Mangie, and I mean all of them. It really is sorta disgraceful for a media entity to be that obtuse.

You're right, their coverage and commentary is borderline disgusting. They really have zero journalistic integrity on that station. Lucky for them, they are the only 24 hour local sports station in town so they will always have listeners. Including disgruntled ones like myself.

The Gipper

Here is the deal now on Holmgren:

He is now the face of the Browns, responsible for everything associated with the team, whether he was involved or had input or not.

He is like our "Front Office Quarterback". I things go right, he will get all the glory. If things go wrong, he will get all the blame.

Fair to say?

ATENEARS

@mopaji said:
I'm glad you brought this up Stan. One of the reasons I was so excited about Heckert being here is because he and Mangini have always had similiar drafts. Mangini said it himself when Heckert was hired. Philly took a lot of guys that the Jets had their eye on. And they had players graded very similiar to how Mangini had guys graded.
And Gips, another good point. GMs are more likely to hurt your franchise rather than help. Coaches go after who they want and when you have a GM who sees the team the same way the coach does (like Heckert and Mangini) you have successful drafts. When you have a GM who thinks he is as important as some of our fans do then you have a Savage/Crennel situation where the GM isn't giving the coach the guys he wants and needs torun his team.

All in all, this was a Mangini draft and he will have to live and die with the results and that is how it should be. I just wish he would get more credit. Although, I don't think he cares about that.

Good points, and I tend to agree.

choco

@the-gipper said:
Here is the deal now on Holmgren:
He is now the face of the Browns, responsible for everything associated with the team, whether he was involved or had input or not.

He is like our "Front Office Quarterback". I things go right, he will get all the glory. If things go wrong, he will get all the blame.

Fair to say
?

Not at all...there's gotta be tons of journalists waiting to praise holmgren for the success, and hang mangini for any failures. The whole scapegoat plan, and the articles are already written and just waiting to be published.

Yet, d say most of those guys live in boston.

The Gipper

@choco said:
Not at all...there's gotta be tons of journalists waiting to praise holmgren for the success, and hang mangini for any failures. The whole scapegoat plan, and the articles are already written and just waiting to be published.
Yet, d say most of those guys live in boston.

OK, good point. Though I would say that more of the critics reside in NYC.

nobuo

@the-gipper said:
OK, good point. Though I would say that more of the critics reside in NYC.

The head coach is almost always the fall guy. It takes a long time for FO to get the blame (Matt Millen).

mopaji

@nobuo said:
The head coach is almost always the fall guy. It takes a long time for FO to get the blame (Matt Millen).

True. I brought this up about 2 days before Holmgren was hired. Because what Mangini was doing last year didn't manifest itself until the last 5 games of the season, Holmgren will get all the credit for turning this thing around because like I said then, it was getting turned around. Mangini won't get any media love but I myself have been gushing over the chubby fella since training camp last year. And despite what the media says and nomatter what emails they pick and choose to read on the air, a lot of fans were feeling the same way I was, and am now. Mangini has been doing this thing the right way. Heckert and Holmgren were the icing on the cake and now it's time to eat!!

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@mopaji said:
I have been blocked by WKNR on 3 seperate email accounts. Can somebody please email them on our behalf and remind them that Heckert and Holmgren didn't run the draft. It was Mangini and Heckert, in that order. They fail to realize that Mangini is even on the staff. The only time they mention him is when they ask "Are these players for mangini or the next coach?"
Thanks in advance.

Unfortunately I will be listening on my way home, I have a tape deck in my car and all of my cassetes are melted.

Yours Truley,

Browns Board's first official Mangini Fag, mopaji.

Woah woah woah. I've been a Mangini fag since day one, mopaji. You're not alone.

mopaji

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:
Woah woah woah. I've been a Mangini fag since day one, mopaji. You're not alone.

Just because you have had an enormous photo of a smiley happy Mangini after a 6-3 blowout of Buffalo as your signature since the 6-3 blowout of Buffalo you think that makes you a #1 Mangini fag?!?!

Well I guess it does actually. Okay, you can be a Mangini fag too.

Like I said about two posts up, I wasn't alone in this by any means and you have been in his corner all along as well. I just really wish the media would cover the Browns with a little less bias and some integrity. Much like we do on here. For the most part.

Bag O'Browns

The media these days is all about getting a story for the sake of a story versus getting the right story. There's a LOT of yellow journalism being written these days in and out of the sports world. I don't mind people trying to sell some papers but at least write or talk the truth.

The truth is perhaps Mangini isn't the most open guy about things but he does know the hell out of football. The national and local media couldn't handle that, so instead of trying to, they just chose to attack the man instead. It felt very highschool antic-like to me.

sisky fringo

@the-gipper said:
Here is the deal now on Holmgren:
He is now the face of the Browns, responsible for everything associated with the team, whether he was involved or had input or not.

He is like our "Front Office Quarterback". I things go right, he will get all the glory. If things go wrong, he will get all the blame.

Fair to say
?

disagree in part. he's like a homer QB where he gets credit for all--even running plays--but is free of any blame.

Mangini is the patsy, MH would come out like a rose, at least in any situation i can dream up.

OT: i'm convinced the press controls at least 50% of American minds--it's impressive. WKNR can effectively shape opinion and they know it.

Mr. T

I used to listen to WKNR AND Trivasausage on WTAM over the internet. They get old fast with the negative vibs, so I barley even tune them in anymore.

Speedyd900rr

@sisky-fringo said:
disagree in part. he's like a homer QB where he gets credit for all--even running plays--but is free of any blame.
Mangini is the patsy, MH would come out like a rose, at least in any situation i can dream up.

OT: i'm convinced the press controls at least 50% of American minds--it's impressive. WKNR can effectively shape opinion and they know it.

Look into who owns the press and the media then you will find the answer to mind control lol.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@mopaji said:
Just because you have had an enormous photo of a smiley happy Mangini after a 6-3 blowout of Buffalo as your signature since the 6-3 blowout of Buffalo you think that makes you a #1 Mangini fag?!?!
Well I guess it does actually. Okay, you can be a Mangini fag too.

Like I said about two posts up, I wasn't alone in this by any means and you have been in his corner all along as well. I just really wish the media would cover the Browns with a little less bias and some integrity. Much like we do on here. For the most part.

Haha. Funny thing is, I picked that picture as my sig only because somebody commented they had never seen Mangini with any sort of emotion on his face other than his sourpuss default expression. And because it kind of looks like him and Eric Barton are both yelling at B-Mac.

To tell you the truth, I kind of dig the fact that the media constantly hates on Mangini. It gives him more credibility, in my book. I've learned to take what the media reports with a grain of salt, and if the media is berating Mangini, well... he must be doing something right.

I'm a fan of the underdog, and Mangini has essentially been that since leaving NY. Nobody wished for him to succeed after the Spygate ordeal, and the entire country has been watching us epically fail since we came back.

When Mangini came to Cleveland, it seemed like a match made in ass-backwards heaven. The shunned coach leaving the biggest media market in America and taking a job as commander-in-chief of the perennial losers? Hollywood couldn't write better a better plot. We were set up for failure yet again, according to Steeler Nation, Jet Nation, Patriot Nation, the American Nation. "Mangini is a sourpuss", "Mangini inherited Herm's team", "Mangenius is a Mangina" - we heard it all. And we sat there quietly and waited.

We waited while he implemented a system in Cleveland. We watied as he traded away our key players and brought in his own guys. We wondered, we questioned, but we still waited. And he did something for us no coach has done successfully since PB himself. He instilled discipline. Sure, he brought in what some may call "lower-quality" players, but they were "higher-quality" men. He forsook talent for character.

Granted, the level of talent we had previously fielded wasn't necessarily that high to begin with. But what little talent we did have was holding us back. Mangini recognized that, and he excised the tumors. And, just like that, our team was formed. A team that, on paper, looked like it would be evenly-matched against a CFL team. But what they didn't have on paper, they had in their hearts. There's a lot that can be said for a man that never gives up, and we had 53 of such men on our roster.

Starting out, the season was rough. We all felt the nagging pull of doubt. But as the season neared an end, something happened that we haven't seen for years. Our team came together. They fought...and won. As one.

And now, looking into the future with Holmgren and Heckert in the mix, I see only good things for our Cleveland Browns. I hope the media keeps ganging up on Mangini. I want them to keep bad mouthing us. I hope they keep us in their "dog pound". Because that's what we are - Dawgs. And like any good canine, we do our best fighting when our backs are up against the wall.

There's my rant for the day.