Grading the Drafts
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As I mentioned elsewhere, a draft cannot really be properly be rated until 3-5 years later. Here are the Browns drafts from 3-5 years ago. Let's grade these drafts in terms of their efficaciousness in the 2010 Browns season. For this purpose I am ignoring what we may have gotten in a trade for those who may have been traded. I am only interested in who we picked up. (Round drafted, player, position):
2004:
1. Kellen Winslow Jr. TE
2. Sean Jones S
4. Luke McCown QB
5. Amon Gordon DL
6. Kirk Chambers OL
7. Adim. Echemandu RB
Grade re 2010 help: F Not a one of these guys is still on the team. Past performance grade: D+ except for K2 and Jones none ever helped this team that I recall, and Jones was gone after 1 or two years.
2005:
1. Braylon Edwards WR
2. Brodney Pool DB
3. Charlie Frye QB
5. David McMillen DE
6. Nick Speegle LB
6. Andrew Hoffman
7. Jonathan Dunn
Grade re 2010 help: F Again, not a one of these guys is even on the team to my knowledge. Past performanne grade: C-.
Edwards/Frye: major disappointments. Pool: serviceable. No other contributors to speak of.
2006:
1. Kameron Wimbley DE/LB
2. D'Qwell Jackson LB
3. Travis Wilson WR
4. Leon Williams LB
4. Isaac Sowells OL
5. Jerome Harrison RB
5. Demarius Minter DB
6. Lawrence Vickers FB
6. Babatunde Owshinowo DT
7. Justin Hamilton
Grade re 2010 help: C- Left on this team is an average at best MLB (Jackson), a truly unknown commodity at RB who has flashes of brilliance but not enough playing time (Harrison), and a better than average Fullback (Vickers)
Grade on past performance: C- Wimbley and a couple of the others just took up roster space for a while. That's about it.
2007:
1. Joe Thomas OT
1. Brady Quinn QB
2. Eric Wright CB
5. Brandon McDonald DB
6. Mellia Purcell DL
7. Chase Pittman DL
7. Syndric Steptoe WR
Grade for 2010 help: B- Thomas of course is the gem (perhaps of all Browns drafts since 1999?). Wright is a serviceable, even reliable starter. McDonald is eminently replaceable, but will likely play. Steptoe is still here. But perhaps NFL (not for long) Grade for past performance: C Quinn's "failure" could have drug this grade down even more.
2008:
4. Beau Bell LB
4. Martin Rucker TE
6. Ahtyba Rubin DT
6. Paul Hubbard WR
7. Alex Hall LB
Grade for 2010 help: D Only Rubin is even still on the roster, and he may be starting for a few games. Past performance grade: D- It is pathetic that only one player from a draft two years ago is still on this team.
(I know that these grades could perhaps be tempered with the qualification that "we got so and so from a draft pick we traded, or we got so and so from a player that we traded....but I was just looking at the straight talent on the team we got from these drafts).
Give your own grades if you like, or if you somehow disagree.
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Gip, are we grading management, coaching, or drafting, cuz if the criteria for a good draft is to have career players they failed miserably? but if it was to scout talent it tells a little different story. it could be argued that with different management/coaching we could have gotten more out of some and many fell casualty to the politics of regime changes but are having some success elsewhere. the amount of FO/coach turnover makes it really difficult to grade the draft fairly in these terms.
for example in 2005 alone the first two picks have both had pro bowl rumblings and have been on the cusp of great things for years. imagine what a simple motorcycle clause in K2's contract could have accomplished by now. although basically a bust in C-town the potential is still there for him to be a reliable weapon for the Bucs and a solid starter in the league. anyone who can start in the NFL for 5 years is a decent pick imo and he's on his way to exceeding that.
Sean Jones was with the team until he was allowed to shop the FA market in '09, as Mangini favored Elam and claimed he could see little difference between the two on film. at SS Jones looked nothing like the version of Abe Elam we saw in 2009 and has been sorely missed imo. although he was good for blowing a couple of assignments a year for big gains, he was as effective at goal line stands and stops for no gain as Ray Lewis is in Baltimore. he also made the occasional big play and could lay the wood and separate a player from the ball if given the opportunity. he was still on the Eagles roster the last time i checked but have not really followed him since he left the Browns.
if Luke McCown had Mike Holmgren around the building this kid might still be with us too. it's just really hard to judge the Browns on anything past one year without the consistency from the top.
the rest of those 2005 guys are embarrassing busts.
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As I mentioned elsewhere, a draft cannot really be properly be rated until 3-5 years later. Here are the Browns drafts from 3-5 years ago. Let's grade these drafts in terms of their efficaciousness in the 2010 Browns season. For this purpose I am ignoring what we may have gotten in a trade for those who may have been traded. I am only interested in who we picked up. (Round drafted, player, position):
2004:
1. Kellen Winslow Jr. TE
2. Sean Jones S
4. Luke McCown QB
5. Amon Gordon DL
6. Kirk Chambers OL
7. Adim. Echemandu RB
Grade re 2010 help: F Not a one of these guys is still on the team. Past performance grade: D+ except for K2 and Jones none ever helped this team that I recall, and Jones was gone after 1 or two years.
2005:
1. Braylon Edwards WR
2. Brodney Pool DB
3. Charlie Frye QB
5. David McMillen DE
6. Nick Speegle LB
6. Andrew Hoffman
7. Jonathan Dunn
Grade re 2010 help: F Again, not a one of these guys is even on the team to my knowledge. Past performanne grade: C-.
Edwards/Frye: major disappointments. Pool: serviceable. No other contributors to speak of.
2006:
1. Kameron Wimbley DE/LB
2. D'Qwell Jackson LB
3. Travis Wilson WR
4. Leon Williams LB
4. Isaac Sowells OL
5. Jerome Harrison RB
5. Demarius Minter DB
6. Lawrence Vickers FB
6. Babatunde Owshinowo DT
7. Justin Hamilton
Grade re 2010 help: C- Left on this team is an average at best MLB (Jackson), a truly unknown commodity at RB who has flashes of brilliance but not enough playing time (Harrison), and a better than average Fullback (Vickers)
Grade on past performance: C- Wimbley and a couple of the others just took up roster space for a while. That's about it.
2007:
1. Joe Thomas OT
1. Brady Quinn QB
2. Eric Wright CB
5. Brandon McDonald DB
6. Mellia Purcell DL
7. Chase Pittman DL
7. Syndric Steptoe WR
Grade for 2010 help: B- Thomas of course is the gem (perhaps of all Browns drafts since 1999?). Wright is a serviceable, even reliable starter. McDonald is eminently replaceable, but will likely play. Steptoe is still here. But perhaps NFL (not for long) Grade for past performance: C Quinn's "failure" could have drug this grade down even more.
2008:
4. Beau Bell LB
4. Martin Rucker TE
6. Ahtyba Rubin DT
6. Paul Hubbard WR
7. Alex Hall LB
Grade for 2010 help: D Only Rubin is even still on the roster, and he may be starting for a few games. Past performance grade: D- It is pathetic that only one player from a draft two years ago is still on this team.
(I know that these grades could perhaps be tempered with the qualification that "we got so and so from a draft pick we traded, or we got so and so from a player that we traded....but I was just looking at the straight talent on the team we got from these drafts).
Give your own grades if you like, or if you somehow disagree.
As I mentioned elsewhere, a draft cannot really be properly be rated until 3-5 years later. Here are the Browns drafts from 3-5 years ago. Let's grade these drafts in terms of their efficaciousness in the 2010 Browns season. For this purpose I am ignoring what we may have gotten in a trade for those who may have been traded. I am only interested in who we picked up. (Round drafted, player, position):
2004:
1. Kellen Winslow Jr. TE
2. Sean Jones S
4. Luke McCown QB
5. Amon Gordon DL
6. Kirk Chambers OL
7. Adim. Echemandu RB
Grade re 2010 help: F Not a one of these guys is still on the team. Past performance grade: D+ except for K2 and Jones none ever helped this team that I recall, and Jones was gone after 1 or two years.
A D+ for past performance seems a little low when you consider we got a pro bowl TE and pretty good saftey out of the draft. And a safety who was on the team for 5 years despite you thinking he was on the team for 1 or 2. I would probably go with a c or c+ for past performance and being this draft was about 7 years ago it doesn't shock me no one is on the team anymore because we have a ton of turnover and 2 new regimes since this draft.
2005:
1. Braylon Edwards WR
2. Brodney Pool DB
3. Charlie Frye QB
5. David McMillen DE
6. Nick Speegle LB
6. Andrew Hoffman
7. Jonathan Dunn
Grade re 2010 help: F Again, not a one of these guys is even on the team to my knowledge. Past performanne grade: C-.
Edwards/Frye: major disappointments. Pool: serviceable. No other contributors to speak of.
no argument here. pretty similar to 2004 except it was a pro bowl WR and a slightly worse safety
2006:
1. Kameron Wimbley DE/LB
2. D'Qwell Jackson LB
3. Travis Wilson WR
4. Leon Williams LB
4. Isaac Sowells OL
5. Jerome Harrison RB
5. Demarius Minter DB
6. Lawrence Vickers FB
6. Babatunde Owshinowo DT
7. Justin Hamilton
Grade re 2010 help: C- Left on this team is an average at best MLB (Jackson), a truly unknown commodity at RB who has flashes of brilliance but not enough playing time (Harrison), and a better than average Fullback (Vickers)
Grade on past performance: C- Wimbley and a couple of the others just took up roster space for a while. That's about it.
I think Vickers is a better then slightly above average fullback as I think he is one of the better blockers in the league at this position. And Harrison still has a ton of "potential" but we will wait and see. Right now I think you are right on with a c- but HArrison could definitly get this grade up
2007:
1. Joe Thomas OT
1. Brady Quinn QB
2. Eric Wright CB
5. Brandon McDonald DB
6. Mellia Purcell DL
7. Chase Pittman DL
7. Syndric Steptoe WR
Grade for 2010 help: B- Thomas of course is the gem (perhaps of all Browns drafts since 1999?). Wright is a serviceable, even reliable starter. McDonald is eminently replaceable, but will likely play. Steptoe is still here. But perhaps NFL (not for long) Grade for past performance: C Quinn's "failure" could have drug this grade down even more.
2008:
4. Beau Bell LB
4. Martin Rucker TE
6. Ahtyba Rubin DT
6. Paul Hubbard WR
7. Alex Hall LB
Grade for 2010 help: D Only Rubin is even still on the roster, and he may be starting for a few games. Past performance grade: D- It is pathetic that only one player from a draft two years ago is still on this team.
(I know that these grades could perhaps be tempered with the qualification that "we got so and so from a draft pick we traded, or we got so and so from a player that we traded....but I was just looking at the straight talent on the team we got from these drafts).
Give your own grades if you like, or if you somehow disagree.
I don't really know what you were expecting with fourth round and beyond picks. The fact we got 2 solid players that actually made the team and played a bit is a miracle. Plus Rubin definitly has some good upside.And its not so pathetic we only have one player from a draft 2 years agoo when you consider that they were all ham and egger 4th, 6th and 7th round picks. There are prob a bunch of teams who only have one of there 4th, 6th and 7th round picks on there team from draft
Sad thing is this draft doesn't look much different from these old drafts. And we all got excited about all these drafts when they happened. I guess we will have to wait and see how this one grades out.
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I disagree with one or two points here:
1) That you don't consider what trades may have gotten us:
2) That you don't consider a pro-bowler simply because they are not currently on the team:
Now obviously, you are gauging the value of the pick based on whether they will help us in 2010. But that doesn't really even tell a third of the story, let alone half of it.
K2 was a pro-bowl tight end, and we got good picks for him, of which we should see decent payout from 2009 and 2010 drafts.
While he was here, Sean Jones was a good pick.
So I know you are trying to show that our past drafts have really sucked, but lacing the truth with vinegar doesn't make it any worse or better. The fact is, we haven't drafted very well, for quite some time.
Ignoring the good picks because they aren't on the team in 2010 doesn't really change that fact for better or worse in my opinion.
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Zombo said:
Damn, Gipper, I have a degree in Journalism and I had to look that up ...Please try and talk down to us.
Zombo
Speak for yourself...................geez!!!!!!!!!!
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Zombo said:
Damn, Gipper, I have a degree in Journalism and I had to look that up ...Please try and talk down to us.
Zombo
How about this: How good dey waz.
(I had a kid that was City Spelling Bee champion. I guess it just comes natural)
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I disagree with one or two points here:
1) That you don't consider what trades may have gotten us:
2) That you don't consider a pro-bowler simply because they are not currently on the team:
Now obviously, you are gauging the value of the pick based on whether they will help us in 2010. But that doesn't really even tell a third of the story, let alone half of it.
K2 was a pro-bowl tight end, and we got good picks for him, of which we should see decent payout from 2009 and 2010 drafts.
While he was here, Sean Jones was a good pick.
So I know you are trying to show that our past drafts have really sucked, but lacing the truth with vinegar doesn't make it any worse or better. The fact is, we haven't drafted very well, for quite some time.
Ignoring the good picks because they aren't on the team in 2010 doesn't really change that fact for better or worse in my opinion.
I disagree with one or two points here:
1) That you don't consider what trades may have gotten us:
I thought I explained that: I didn't do it because I didn't/couldn't track what we may have gotten in trade for them. I was only grading the players, not who we got for the players. You are free to do that if you can.
2) That you don't consider a pro-bowler simply because they are not currently on the team:
Now obviously, you are gauging the value of the pick based on whether they will help us in 2010. But that doesn't really even tell a third of the story, let alone half of it.
Perhaps that is only part of the story, but I thought I was clear that that was the part of the story that I was grading: the help gotten in that draft by those players for the 2010 season. A former ProBowler who now works for someone else does the Browns no damn good this coming season!
K2 was a pro-bowl tight end, and we got good picks for him, of which we should see decent payout from 2009 and 2010 drafts.
While he was here, Sean Jones was a good pick.
Jones is the one guy I may have undervalued, agreed. I don't know why, but he was so quiet while here that I hardly noticed him, and when he left it seemed like he was only here a couple of years. It sure didn't seem to me like he was here for 5 years.
So I know you are trying to show that our past drafts have really sucked, but lacing the truth with vinegar doesn't make it any worse or better. The fact is, we haven't drafted very well, for quite some time.
Ignoring the good picks because they aren't on the team in 2010 doesn't really change that fact for better or worse in my opinion.
Well, for a final thought on this, you have to figure, given the Browns overall record the past 10 years, that no draft really deserves more than an overall C. I mean, you are graded by your ultimate record, and ultimatley, you gotta give this team failing grades.
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