Where do you get a Superstar?

The Gipper

On another thread it was stated that some of the Browns hierarchy may be believing that Colt McCoy is just going to be a career backup. While that may be the thinking, many a Superstar QB has been had in lower than the first round of the draft. Yea, more probably are taken higher up, but by no means all. Here is a listing of the Draft Round that each Hall of Fame Quarterback who has played his career since the end of WWII was taken in:

First Round: Len Dawson, Bob Griese, Y.A. Tittle, Troy Aikman, John Elway, Otto Graham, Bobby Layne, Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, Terry Bradshaw, Joe Namath, Sammy Baugh, and Sid Luckman. Steve Young was taken in the first round of a Supplemental Draft.

Second Round: Ace Parker

Third Round: Dan Fouts, Joe Montana, Fran Tarkenton

Fourth Round: Sonny Jurgenson, Norm Van Brocklin

Fifth Round: Bob Waterfield

Ninth Round: John Unitas

Tenth Round: Roger Staubach

Twelfth Round: George Blanda

17th Round: Bart Starr

Undrafted: Warren Moon

Plus look at the potential HOFers who may be looked at in the next 10 years or so:

Peyton Manning and Steve McNair, first round. Brett Favre, second round. Tom Brady 6th round, Kurt Warner...undrafted.

So, as I see it, to get a Superstar QB is about 50/50 that such an individual would be a First Rounder or somewhere lower than that.

So, the fact that Colt McCoy was taken in the third round should be no impediment to superstardom, right?

Canton Mike

Exactly right. As I replied in that other post, NO ONE knows what the future holds for these draftees, & it always bugs me when a "too short", "too slow", "weak arm" tag is put on them.

The intangibles are what really determine what happens...those & playing in a system that suits their skill set.

Mike

ballpeen

You do have to consider a lot of those guys were taken when there were 12 teams in the league v 32, so simply stating the round taken isn't a good measure.

Pick number might be more appropriate.

First rounders today might have been 3rd rounders then.

Gips

I like to look at it like QBs are not born they are nurtured and developed...MH knows this dirty little secret of the champions..

Its more about understanding a players strengths, playstyle and potential and then having enough balls to risk building a team and playbook around him..

Unfortunately for many QBs most coaches and GMs dont understand this or wont/cant take the time or chance and fail to build or plan around a talented guy...

With mangini i believe we have no ability to develop a young QB or the patience to build around one and the history of the browns past 10 years will repeat itself again unless MH intervenes..

Mangini and daboll are painfully inexperienced in QB development a look at project ratliff gives a good insight about mangini and his lack of QB development skills and its obvious that he is a true lover of the pre-developed instant garbage pail QB and we all know what you usually get with sloppy seconds and thirds unless the team is already pre-built in a suitable way for the released veteran..

We really need to start developing and building an inhouse product from the draft to have a solid team, its always a time consuming and risky venture but it beats the alternative..and i think we have a president that understands this facet of football all to well so patience shouldnt be a problem if he trusts the current staff to get it done..

calfoxwc

Jerry Rice was "too slow" out of college, dropped a few balls in college.

But he had HEART, and CHARACTER and tremendous WORK ETHIC.

I'll go with those qualities as #1, #2 and #3 in any order over any other qualities.

Well, #4 is talent. @@

Then you are far more likely to nab a real winner on and off the field.

The Gipper

Zombo said:
McNair is not a Hall of Famer.
So if you look at the most current greats, the four most successful QBs were:

#1 overall, second rounder, sixth rounder, undrafted.

3 out of four made it past the first round. That's significant.

Of course, I'm sure 95%+ of third rounders aren't HOFers (other than Fouts, Montana, Tark), so odds are against Colt.

But we don't necessarily need a HOFer. If we can get get a guy like Sipe or Kosar that can give us 5+ years of good quarterbacking ... that gives us a nice window to contend. Providing our defense actually starts stopping people someday.

Zombo

I probably agree that McNair is not a Hall of Famer, but I think he will get some consideration. Other than Brady and Manning, who else besides McNair and Warner who has played in the last 10 years will get HOF consideration? Not BR at this point. He was almost no factor in the Steelers first SB win with him at QB, and though he was a major factor in the second, his antics with the young ladies is gonna put his name well low on any voter's list of who should get a check for the HOF. Other than that: McNabb, maybe. A first rounder.

The Gipper

@ballpeen said:
You do have to consider a lot of those guys were taken when there were 12 teams in the league v 32, so simply stating the round taken isn't a good measure.
Pick number might be more appropriate.

First rounders today might have been 3rd rounders then.

I don't know if that info is available, but the only ones that may have been affected by that were Parker, Van Brocklin, Waterfield. Maybe Unitas would have been at best a 6th rounder with today's number of teams.

nobuo

Everything you need to be a successful QB in the league can be taught except for 3 things:

Work Ethic

Attitude

Commitment

You've got to have some physical talent and intelligence, but if you have those three things above, you can learn just about anything else and be a successful QB. I will say, you can have all the talent and intelligence in the world, but if you're missing any one of those three things, you're not gonna be a QB for very long in the NFL. It helps to have a good team around you and a good system in place as well.

lambdo

Rightly or wrongly I think Mcnair makes a Canton sighting..

sisky fringo

@nobuo said:
Everything you need to be a successful QB in the league can be taught except for 3 things:
Work Ethic

Attitude

Commitment

You've got to have some physical talent and intelligence, but if you have those three things above, you can learn just about anything else and be a successful QB. I will say, you can have all the talent and intelligence in the world, but if you're missing any one of those three things, you're not gonna be a QB for very long in the NFL. It helps to have a good team around you and a good system in place as well.

while i agree somewhat it could be argued Quinn had those qualities and it sure didn't work for him.

my four innate qualities a qb must possess would be: intelligence, accuracy w/ the capability to make all the throws, leadership ability, and heart. gotta have those four in spades. if you have height, mobility, charisma, gritty toughness...that stuff is nice to have in your toolbox to work with but it seems you don't have to have it to go all the way.

preparation, perspiration, and perseverance are traits the greats had too so i'd say they are vital also and nearly anyone is capable of them so there are no excuses on these ones.

jnuh

@lambdo said:
Rightly or wrongly I think Mcnair makes a Canton sighting..

McNair is very borderline and the fact that he has no ring is what eventually will keep him out

ballpeen

Tarkenton was the 29th player taken in the 61 draft.

Jurgenson was the 43rd player taken in the 57 draft.

Unitas pick 102 in 1955

Starr was pick 200 in 1956....making him a Tom Brady 6th rounder

Staubach really doesn't apply since he had 4 years of military duty facing him. he would have been a 1st rounder had he been able to play right away.

I have found this site useful when it come to the NFL draft.

http://drafthistory.com/years/1955.html