May 4th, 1970
-
Furthermore, the anti war movement on campus contributed to the CONTINUING of the stupidly run war,
by ALIENATING the MIDDLE CLASS from the idea that the war should end.
That, and the anti-war movement contributed to encouraging the enemy to continue to kill American soldiers
by any means necessary, since Jane "traitor" Fonda, George "traitor" McGovern and the anti war movement so
avidly embraced their propaganda.
Which, was the subject of a debate I won in some speech class a whole year later, around May 4th. I had only 3 folks in class
agreeing with me on that subject before we debated, and I went against a smelly longhair angry hippie who had spoken er... yelled at
one of the rallies. After the debate was over, I had most of the entire class on my side. His buddies were making fun of him.
"Dude, he just kicked you ass about the movement, man....." and they'd laugh.
Well, after we walked out of class, he grabbed me and asked where I lived, because I was a pig and part of the problem,
and they were going to find me and &*^&^%$, and his friends pulled him away from me and told him he was crazy.....
so, I was sitting in the old student union, and a lady close friend came to my booth, and sat down and asked me how
things were going. I told her "great" and told her what happened. She said for me to stay there, and she'd be back.
?So, I sat there doing my homework, etc, having lunch, and she came back. She said I'd be fine, but to be careful for
going home that same day.
well, the next day, I was walking in the hallway of the student union, and this same guy who threatened me walked through a door,
and saw me... stopped right quick, kinda waved, quietly said "hi, man" and turned around and quickly walked the other direction.
So, I'm sitting in the student union later (stupid two hour break between classes) and my friend came in, and happily sat next
to me, and asked how I was doin. I told her what happened, and squinted at her and asked what she did, what that was all about.
She said I was fine, he'd be no problem and she couldn't tell me. I tried to tease her into telling me, but she just grinned,
said she never could tell anybody, kissed me on the cheek and left.
And she never did tell me, dammit. So, don't defend all those "peace loving students:" who were "oppressed by the Guard" on May 4th.
Some of them made the tragedy of May 4th happen, they just didn't think the Guard had real bullets in their guns, which I wish
they hadn't of had.
Furthermore, the anti war movement on campus contributed to the CONTINUING of the stupidly run war,
by ALIENATING the MIDDLE CLASS from the idea that the war should end.
That, and the anti-war movement contributed to encouraging the enemy to continue to kill American soldiers
by any means necessary, since Jane "traitor" Fonda, George "traitor" McGovern and the anti war movement so
avidly embraced their propaganda.
Which, was the subject of a debate I won in some speech class a whole year later, around May 4th. I had only 3 folks in class
agreeing with me on that subject before we debated, and I went against a smelly longhair angry hippie who had spoken er... yelled at
one of the rallies. After the debate was over, I had most of the entire class on my side. His buddies were making fun of him.
"Dude, he just kicked you ass about the movement, man....." and they'd laugh.
Well, after we walked out of class, he grabbed me and asked where I lived, because I was a pig and part of the problem,
and they were going to find me and &*^&^%$, and his friends pulled him away from me and told him he was crazy.....
so, I was sitting in the old student union, and a lady close friend came to my booth, and sat down and asked me how
things were going. I told her "great" and told her what happened. She said for me to stay there, and she'd be back.
?So, I sat there doing my homework, etc, having lunch, and she came back. She said I'd be fine, but to be careful for
going home that same day.
well, the next day, I was walking in the hallway of the student union, and this same guy who threatened me walked through a door,
and saw me... stopped right quick, kinda waved, quietly said "hi, man" and turned around and quickly walked the other direction.
So, I'm sitting in the student union later (stupid two hour break between classes) and my friend came in, and happily sat next
to me, and asked how I was doin. I told her what happened, and squinted at her and asked what she did, what that was all about.
She said I was fine, he'd be no problem and she couldn't tell me. I tried to tease her into telling me, but she just grinned,
said she never could tell anybody, kissed me on the cheek and left.
And she never did tell me, dammit. So, don't defend all those "peace loving students:" who were "oppressed by the Guard" on May 4th.
Some of them made the tragedy of May 4th happen, they just didn't think the Guard had real bullets in their guns, which I wish
they hadn't of had.
. All I know is that anyone that goes around calling everyone they have a political difference with a "traitor" Is a person I instantly dismiss in terms of having any credibility.
-
Jane "traitor" Fonda and George "traitor" McGovern?
I didn't JUST have a political difference with them.
I have no respect for them as human beings because of their ACTIONS and their anti-American effort rhetoric that
demoralized our troops, and uplifted THEIR troops.
If you don't get that, then there isn't much you are going to learn, if you won't listen.
You have been to the site, I was THERE that DAY.
And anybody who uses the silly "Who are "we"? Did you have a mouse in your pocket?"
apparently doesn't have the credibility to respect difference of opinions. I have already stated
before that, that "we" were there, my best friend, and his brother, and other friends.
WE WERE GLAD THE NATIONAL GUARD WAS THERE.
Anybody who is sincere, can read that I clearly said the shootings were tragic, and I would have preferred the
Guardsmen to have plastic bullets.
The leftist hippies were throwing rocks. Those that WERE throwing rocks were NOT UNARMED.
Face it, Gip - the hippies and their asinine rallies not only hurt the protesters who were SINCERE because
they had friends/family loved ones in the war... they also alienated the middle class from acting to stop the war,
they alienated a lot of regular students who thought their approach was extremely unAmerican and dirty and uncalled for.
I believe this from my personal experiences that DAY, and the couple of years that followed.
I hope you enjoyed your educational visit to the campus and had a nice tour. @@
-
Well, as I mentioned before, you are by NO means the only person who I know who was there. I have had perspective from both sides...and from neutral people. My next door neighbor was also "there on the day"...and was just a student going from one class to another and who was curious about what was going on. I worked for 5 years with....and am still friends with one of the guardsmen who was "there on the day" (he was not in the shooting group). One of the guys that was shot lives 2 blocks from where I sit right now. (so, actually I am perhaps the one with the more reasoned view on the matter...taking my perspective as a more neutral party)
And yes, anyone who would claim that George McGovern, who was a WWII veteran, a U.S. Senator for many years, a candidate for President of the United States does INDEED deserve instant dismissal of any credibility. Again, because I saw both sides of that issue. My ass was on the line probably more than yours was in terms of having to go fight in that war....and FYI, I was willing to go if I had to. Thank goodness that was the one lottery I have won in my life.
-
Gip,
There are all sorts of perceptions about it. Of course, there are folks who see it differently.
But our view was right there, and I am just telling you, that my perceptions are based on continued experiences
for a couple of years after that day.
Mcgovern had a solid service record, that's good.
But if he commited murder, rape, etc, later on in life, it never happened because he was a veteran?
Mcgovern and Fonda are two of the people that NONE of us respected FOR THEIR ANTI-AMERICAN
politics during the Vietnam war. Mcgovern was a bigmouth punk about it, and losing the election as he did, was
justice served.
McGovern was a snide, hateful, and self-defeating politician that used the Vietnam War as his hopeful ride to the WH.
Most of America didn't buy it.
Odd, some people defend Mcgovern, etc, but to criticize Obamao now, well, THAT is "sedition".
I'm glad you won the lottery, Gip, and came back, cranky and all.
-
Gip,
There are all sorts of perceptions about it. Of course, there are folks who see it differently.
But our view was right there, and I am just telling you, that my perceptions are based on continued experiences
for a couple of years after that day.
Mcgovern had a solid service record, that's good.
But if he commited murder, rape, etc, later on in life, it never happened because he was a veteran?
Mcgovern and Fonda are two of the people that NONE of us respected FOR THEIR ANTI-AMERICAN
politics during the Vietnam war. Mcgovern was a bigmouth punk about it, and losing the election as he did, was
justice served.
McGovern was a snide, hateful, and self-defeating politician that used the Vietnam War as his hopeful ride to the WH.
Most of America didn't buy it.
Odd, some people defend Mcgovern, etc, but to criticize Obamao now, well, THAT is "sedition".
I'm glad you won the lottery, Gip, and came back, cranky and all.
Gip,
There are all sorts of perceptions about it. Of course, there are folks who see it differently.
But our view was right there, and I am just telling you, that my perceptions are based on continued experiences
for a couple of years after that day.
Mcgovern had a solid service record, that's good.
But if he commited murder, rape, etc, later on in life, it never happened because he was a veteran?
Mcgovern and Fonda are two of the people that NONE of us respected FOR THEIR ANTI-AMERICAN
politics during the Vietnam war. Mcgovern was a bigmouth punk about it, and losing the election as he did, was
justice served.
McGovern was a snide, hateful, and self-defeating politician that used the Vietnam War as his hopeful ride to the WH.
Most of America didn't buy it.
Odd, some people defend Mcgovern, etc, but to criticize Obamao now, well, THAT is "sedition".
I'm glad you won the lottery, Gip, and came back, cranky and all.
Actually, my view of McGovern is that what he did was totally PRO-American. He propounded positions that were in the best interest of the United States of America, and history has shown him to be correct.
And history has shown that the snide, hateful, self-defeating politician was in fact his opponent, needless to say.
As for criticizing Obama....I have no clue what you are talking about with this "sedition" business. I have no problem if you wish to legitimately criticize his policies. Even his supporters have criticisms of his policies.
I mean who is calling who seditious....it is the ilk of the Ann Coulter types that go around with the tripe that anyone that disagrees with conservative Republican policies is a "traitor". Apparently, you drank the KoolAid.
-
So, Mcgovern, who openly encouraged the enemy to kill more of our soldiers, was PRO American?
history never showed any such thing to be PRO American. It is to the detriment of all those soldiers who never came home,
your hero Mcgovern.
It's what he did, how he did it. All he did, was the wrong things. And it was all for leftwing politics,
his hatefulness alienated most of America. Not pro- nothin.
You should, if you read much, realize that the whole sedition biz came up with Obamao regime members.
Even his SC nominee doesn't think much of the 1st Amendment.
Nobody called "sedition" with all the hateful snipes at Bush for eight years.
But you criticize this marxist, radical wacko Obamao Mafiao regime? "Sedition", literally, and sometimes cloaked
in hints and innuendo.
I don't know of any "Ann Colter type" outside of Ann Coulter. She talks too much and too fast for me, along
with constant overtalking.
Apparently, you may have a Jane Fonda poster on your wall.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't a longhair in reality, but you come across like William Kuntsler, sp?
-
So, Mcgovern, who openly encouraged the enemy to kill more of our soldiers, was PRO American?
history never showed any such thing to be PRO American. It is to the detriment of all those soldiers who never came home,
your hero Mcgovern.
It's what he did, how he did it. All he did, was the wrong things. And it was all for leftwing politics,
his hatefulness alienated most of America. Not pro- nothin.
You should, if you read much, realize that the whole sedition biz came up with Obamao regime members.
Even his SC nominee doesn't think much of the 1st Amendment.
Nobody called "sedition" with all the hateful snipes at Bush for eight years.
But you criticize this marxist, radical wacko Obamao Mafiao regime? "Sedition", literally, and sometimes cloaked
in hints and innuendo.
I don't know of any "Ann Colter type" outside of Ann Coulter. She talks too much and too fast for me, along
with constant overtalking.
Apparently, you may have a Jane Fonda poster on your wall.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't a longhair in reality, but you come across like William Kuntsler, sp?
So, Mcgovern, who openly encouraged the enemy to kill more of our soldiers, was PRO American?
history never showed any such thing to be PRO American. It is to the detriment of all those soldiers who never came home,
your hero Mcgovern.
It's what he did, how he did it. All he did, was the wrong things. And it was all for leftwing politics,
his hatefulness alienated most of America. Not pro- nothin.
You should, if you read much, realize that the whole sedition biz came up with Obamao regime members.
Even his SC nominee doesn't think much of the 1st Amendment.
Nobody called "sedition" with all the hateful snipes at Bush for eight years.
But you criticize this marxist, radical wacko Obamao Mafiao regime? "Sedition", literally, and sometimes cloaked
in hints and innuendo.
I don't know of any "Ann Colter type" outside of Ann Coulter. She talks too much and too fast for me, along
with constant overtalking.
Apparently, you may have a Jane Fonda poster on your wall.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't a longhair in reality, but you come across like William Kuntsler, sp?
You come off like Joseph Goebbels: Tell the biggest lie you can think of enough times and people begin to believe it.
McGovern promoting the killing of American troops: a big fat f***ing lie. McGovern's hatefullness alienating America? Are you sure you are not living in a parallel universe? That describes pretty much to a T the actions and personality of Nixon.
Sedition accusations by Obama? Why is it that no one has ever heard of these accusations except perhaps on Fox News? Because it was created, lock,stock, barrel by the wacko right wing.
Look, here is the bottom line: You asshole Republicans Fu*ked things up so much in this country that it led to your worst nightmare happening: you elected a Democrat, a black person to boot. Your "Divine right" to hold the Presidency was proven to be a fallacy. That is a truth you can't apparently handle, so oh so many of you are going off the deep end and have seemed to coalesce into a frenzied cabal. Sorry dude, but that cabal does not control the world, though you would like it to. And it does not control history, though you would like it to.
As for Jane Fonda posters? No, not that I recall. But I did have Lennon/Marx posters: John and Groucho.
Am I a longhair? No, I do not know how to conduct an orchestra.
But I do like Willie Nelson's braided long hair. If you like Willie Nelson are you a longhair?
Kuntlser? No, I was more of a F. Lee Bailey fan.
See, the thing here is, and anyone who knows me can tell you: I am pretty much a Centrist. I have my criticisms of both Ds and Rs, I have my criticisms of both left and right.
Where my son goes to school, they have a slogan: Take the Middlepath. That is a philosophy I pretty much concur with. In fact, I have even thought of instituting a "Middlepath Policy Center" (considering that I do have a political science and a law degree and have been involved in government in one shape or form for 25 years). I haven't followed through because, first, it is just an idea right now that would take a lot of work to accomplish and I may need permission from that school to implement it...though the name should be in the public domain.
Your ilk though can apparently no more tolerate a centrist than they can someone who really is far out on the left. To you, it is all the same apparently.
-
All you had to do was say:
"I'm sorry to diss your viewpoint on May 4th, Calfox..."
and sing the "I'm So Sorry" song.
Ya didn't have to get all flysies into ragsies.
gosh. Some people must sleep on a bed of nails during nappie time.
-
All you had to do was say:
"I'm sorry to diss your viewpoint on May 4th, Calfox..."
and sing the "I'm So Sorry" song.
Ya didn't have to get all flysies into ragsies.
gosh. Some people must sleep on a bed of nails during nappie time.
-
I never said anything about you being a centrist, dipstick.
You keep your middle of the road ideology,
I'll just stick to my AMERICAN VALUES AND PRINCIPLES.
That way, I don't have to tippy-toe liberal-wacko-wise,
around believing stuff.
I know what I believe in, and I vote accordingly, and I see things through that filter.
I don't believe in crap because some lunkhead spouts off, or some org gets riled if I don't.
You keep your peer pressure, I'm good with my AMERICAN VALUES and PRINCIPLES.
And there are a LOT of DEMOCRATS, INDEPENDENTS, along with a whole lot more REPUBLICANS
who know that this dirty, corrupt Obamao admin is not what we are.
And, neither were the phoney slugs from May 4th.
Before you say "nyah nyah nyah, Cal, you are saying that all people who went to May 4th are slugs,
so you're stupid.".......... there were phoney slugs there on May 4th, and a year thereafter, etc.
They caused many, many of our soldiers to never make it back home.
Here's a clue: That was NOT Mcgovern "Pro American". I need a spitttoon for effect.
-
I never said anything about you being a centrist, dipstick.
You keep your middle of the road ideology,
I'll just stick to my AMERICAN VALUES AND PRINCIPLES.
That way, I don't have to tippy-toe liberal-wacko-wise,
around believing stuff.
I know what I believe in, and I vote accordingly, and I see things through that filter.
I don't believe in crap because some lunkhead spouts off, or some org gets riled if I don't.
You keep your peer pressure, I'm good with my AMERICAN VALUES and PRINCIPLES.
And there are a LOT of DEMOCRATS, INDEPENDENTS, along with a whole lot more REPUBLICANS
who know that this dirty, corrupt Obamao admin is not what we are.
And, neither were the phoney slugs from May 4th.
Before you say "nyah nyah nyah, Cal, you are saying that all people who went to May 4th are slugs,
so you're stupid.".......... there were phoney slugs there on May 4th, and a year thereafter, etc.
They caused many, many of our soldiers to never make it back home.
Here's a clue: That was NOT Mcgovern "Pro American". I need a spitttoon for effect.
I never said anything about you being a centrist, dipstick.
You keep your middle of the road ideology,
I'll just stick to my AMERICAN VALUES AND PRINCIPLES.
That way, I don't have to tippy-toe liberal-wacko-wise,
around believing stuff.
I know what I believe in, and I vote accordingly, and I see things through that filter.
I don't believe in crap because some lunkhead spouts off, or some org gets riled if I don't.
You keep your peer pressure, I'm good with my AMERICAN VALUES and PRINCIPLES.
And there are a LOT of DEMOCRATS, INDEPENDENTS, along with a whole lot more REPUBLICANS
who know that this dirty, corrupt Obamao admin is not what we are.
And, neither were the phoney slugs from May 4th.
Before you say "nyah nyah nyah, Cal, you are saying that all people who went to May 4th are slugs,
so you're stupid.".......... there were phoney slugs there on May 4th, and a year thereafter, etc.
They caused many, many of our soldiers to never make it back home.
Here's a clue: That was NOT Mcgovern "Pro American". I need a spitttoon for effect.
Cal, do you like your KoolAid Orange, Grape or Lemon-Lime?
-
I drink root beer, and sometimes Coke,
and I make iced sun tea a lot, and lemonade,
and lots of water.
but I am going to start making the lemonade with real
lemons instead of from the Real-lemon concentrate stuff.
How do you like your kool-aid, banana, black cherry, or tuti-fruity patootie?
Our conversation is going downhill fast, and it's 80 percent your fault.
-
I drink root beer, and sometimes Coke,
and I make iced sun tea a lot, and lemonade,
and lots of water.
but I am going to start making the lemonade with real
lemons instead of from the Real-lemon concentrate stuff.
How do you like your kool-aid, banana, black cherry, or tuti-fruity patootie?
Our conversation is going downhill fast, and it's 80 percent your fault.
I drink root beer, and sometimes Coke,
and I make iced sun tea a lot, and lemonade,
and lots of water.
but I am going to start making the lemonade with real
lemons instead of from the Real-lemon concentrate stuff.
How do you like your kool-aid, banana, black cherry, or tuti-fruity patootie?
Our conversation is going downhill fast, and it's 80 percent your fault.
No, I don't think so. The bottom line on the whole conversation can be summed up simply by saying that you believe that anyone that doesn't fall in line with your goose step is your enemy.
-
Think again, and go back and READ the several posts starting this thread.
we were having a fine time with our differing? opinions,
then you started chiming in saying one of my "anecdotes" was not true, because
rightwing/leftwing...
Stop, and think. I call them "rightwing" and "leftwing" now. Then you started in on me,
because you're a "centrist".
I say, a "centrist" all too often refers to somebody that doesn't have the courage to
have PRINCIPLES and AMERICAN VALUES they will defend forever and ever.
My opinion of "Centrists": "DUDE, like, you know, I think abortion and illegal immigration and gay marriage,
you know, like everything, is good and bad and sometimes it just depends on who the peer pressure
people are and how I rationalize staying in the middle, man, so we can all share our smokie-smokie"
Bah. All you had to do, Gipper, was to simply post your opinions, instead of getting your tutu all
wrinklie because I posted what I posted, and you didn't like it.
It's on you;I think I am being gracious when I say "80 percent your fault".
BTW, was I right? Tuti-fruity patootie is your favorite?
-
Think again, and go back and READ the several posts starting this thread.
we were having a fine time with our differing? opinions,
then you started chiming in saying one of my "anecdotes" was not true, because
rightwing/leftwing...
Stop, and think. I call them "rightwing" and "leftwing" now. Then you started in on me,
because you're a "centrist".
I say, a "centrist" all too often refers to somebody that doesn't have the courage to
have PRINCIPLES and AMERICAN VALUES they will defend forever and ever.
My opinion of "Centrists": "DUDE, like, you know, I think abortion and illegal immigration and gay marriage,
you know, like everything, is good and bad and sometimes it just depends on who the peer pressure
people are and how I rationalize staying in the middle, man, so we can all share our smokie-smokie"
Bah. All you had to do, Gipper, was to simply post your opinions, instead of getting your tutu all
wrinklie because I posted what I posted, and you didn't like it.
It's on you;I think I am being gracious when I say "80 percent your fault".
BTW, was I right? Tuti-fruity patootie is your favorite?
Think again, and go back and READ the several posts starting this thread.
we were having a fine time with our differing? opinions,
then you started chiming in saying one of my "anecdotes" was not true, because
rightwing/leftwing...
Stop, and think. I call them "rightwing" and "leftwing" now. Then you started in on me,
because you're a "centrist".
I say, a "centrist" all too often refers to somebody that doesn't have the courage to
have PRINCIPLES and AMERICAN VALUES they will defend forever and ever.
My opinion of "Centrists": "DUDE, like, you know, I think abortion and illegal immigration and gay marriage,
you know, like everything, is good and bad and sometimes it just depends on who the peer pressure
people are and how I rationalize staying in the middle, man, so we can all share our smokie-smokie"
Bah. All you had to do, Gipper, was to simply post your opinions, instead of getting your tutu all
wrinklie because I posted what I posted, and you didn't like it.
It's on you;I think I am being gracious when I say "80 percent your fault".
BTW, was I right? Tuti-fruity patootie is your favorite?
What I said was that there was NO justification for the shooting of the Students at Kent State. There was not justification for that. The guardsmen were not by any means in any life threatening situation. Even though there certainly may have been justification for them to be there and to prevent any further riotous activity, there was no justification for the manslaughter that occurred there. And yes, trust me as a jurist, in any other situation that was not otherwise so politicized, the individuals doing and ordering the shooting would have been charged with manslaughter.
And I don't care what your particular experience was with a few people you may have had a disagreement with during that time. Maybe you were being a turd with them just like you have been somewhat of a turd here, thinking that your opinion is the only opinion that counts and that their opinion about the conduct of the Vietnam War should not count for anything and that anyone that disagreed with you on your opinion is somehow traitorous or lacks principles or American values.
And that, my friend is a purely feculent thought process. I have as many principles and hold my American values very near. and dear and I suspect I have done far more in my career to bring the American values of Freedom, liberty, and justice to bear in our society than just about anyone you know. And your opinion of centrists is a fool's opinion. It is the 80% of us that are centrists that actually accomplish things in this society, and the 10% of you on the extreme right and the 10% on the extreme left that get all the attention merely because you blow so much smoke up each others asses that that is all the media pays attention to.
The thing is, it is my kind who defend your right to be as extreme as you want. We are the ones that make this country safe for you from your extremist opponents, and we are the ones that make this country safe from you as well.
-
I call BS on you again, Gipper.
I couldn't care less that you disagree, or have different opinions.
and, surely, God Bless ya even though you are a "jurist?" that
already decided guilt on the National Guards' part.
Nice justice, to you, maybe. Your leftwing bias and kangaroo court
"guilty before charged" bs is purely because what? You lived next door
to Jerry Rubin or something?
Here's a clue - you look like a dimwitted jerk for putting words in my mouth, er..
fingers, and then telling me what you mistakenly infer is MY feculent thought process.
I think the way you think, and express your arrogant libbie self... as FLATULENT.
So, you think, that if you throw rocks into the face of your local police officer,
kick him in the groin, and run, that he can't shoot you because his "life isn't in danger?"
See? I can do that same thing. Only I'm honest enough to admit it's dumb.
You, not so much. It's a cowardly way to argue points.
The more you jaw-flappy, the more you come off as a long-haired hippie who needs to take
a shower. Your "logic" stinks.
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