Hello, Niner fan here.
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No problem at all. As long as they are the Cleveland Browns and still in the Cleveland Media Market, I'm ok with whereever they want to put their stadium.
OK, fine. Who am I to argue with you?
Baltimore has everything to do with this conversation. Because the move to Baltimore is moving to an entirely different market. The two situations are not even close to being the same.
So what you're saying is that 'market and 'distance' are factors more important than 'history' and 'legacy' only because someone with power says so?
I didn't acknowledge distance is irrelevant. I said it was entirely relevant as regards the difference between Santa Clara/San Francisco and Cleveland/Baltimore.
It IS irrelevant because Ohio is not California and especially not NorCal! Can you get to another state if you travel some 40 miles?
Fair enough, but just because the Bay Area is a unique situation, does not mean that you guys get to lump this situation in with the Browns in 1995. Not close to the same situation.
I'm not lumping it together. I'm asking for some help and advice. That's why I came here, to share my views. I can see a lot of similarities that can and should be exploited. No offense!
Because the situation is not the same. It isn't a town rich in football history losing its team to another completely different media market for no other reason than Modell was a weenie. Why would Goodell stand in your corner, when he is actually advocating a new stadium in Santa Clara as a way for the 49'ers to get a new stadium. He actually is advocating the 49'ers and Raiders share a stadium. You won't have his support.
San Francisco is rich in pioneering. The 49ers were the first Pro sports team in California. Tony Morabito, when shot down by the NFL at time, didn't give up. Besides, just because Goodell gives his support to the Yorks and Santa Clara doesn't mean he can't stand in San Francisco's corner and say "Yes, you do have a point".
Further, if whatever entity (Stadium Commission) owns/operates the stadium and owns the stadium contract with the 49'ers is working in tandem with the team and the "Bay Area" to build a new stadium, then there won't be any legal issues. They will write a new contract between them that voids the old one. And the public really has no say in it.
Modell broke his contract with the City and the Stadium, and the City and Stadium had a new plan for Modell. Modell just decided to up and leave.
All cities have a say in it if another city/state wants to you their name. Some don't matter like New Jersey doesn't matter the Giants and the Jets call themselves New York. But that's their choice and not a rule. The city of San Francisco should easily be able to say that if they want the team they have to change their name.
I get the feeling that you are a high school or college student without your own vehicle or without a ton of money for gasoline, and you use public transportation, which is convenient for you to see the 49'ers in San Francisco when you want to. But driving to Santa Clara presents difficulty for you, and so you want to raise a stink.
Not so. I'm 33 years old. I'm a business owner living 6 months a year outside of the USA.
I get that the "Bay Area" has a unique situation in that Oakland also has a team. So local perception makes it feel like moving to Santa Clara is losing your team to another city.
The Oakland Raiders have nothing to do with it. This about the history and legacy of the Niners.
But the fact is, you are not losing your team to another city. When the difference is 38 miles, its not a loss. If they call themselves the San Francisco 49ers, and it takes you about 90 minutes or less (traffic may delay further) to get to the stadium, and the stadium is still in the San Francisco media market, you didn't lose your team.
Yes we are. We are losing the team down to greed. It's a different city anyway you slice it.
I didn't want this kind of discussion.
It IS irrelevant because Ohio is not California and especially not NorCal! Can you get to another state if you travel some 40 miles?
I live in Minnesota (grew up in NE Ohio.) And yes, the Twin Cities (Minneapolis/St. Paul) is less than 40 miles from Wisconsin. Hudson, WI is considered part of the Twin Cities metropolitan footprint.
All cities have a say in it if another city/state wants to you their name. Some don't matter like New Jersey doesn't matter the Giants and the Jets call themselves New York. But that's their choice and not a rule. The city of San Francisco should easily be able to say that if they want the team they have to change their name.
Do you actually think the city proper San Francisco would do this (even if they could) on the threat that the team could move to LA or San Antonio? I doubt it. My bet is, that San Francisco would be glad to lend their name to the 49'ers should they choose to have a stadium in Santa Clara.
The Oakland Raiders have nothing to do with it. This about the history and legacy of the Niners.
Yes we are. We are losing the team down to greed. It's a different city anyway you slice it.
I didn't want this kind of discussion.
Sorry, not buying your rhetoric or the drama of the situation.
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I would like to thank you for the info I've got so far (escpecially from The Gipper).
So I'll look up...
* The Cleveland Plain Dealer
* The Akron Beacon Journal
* Books published
* ESPN special on Art Modell
And also...
* An unbreakable lease (I think that's actually a fact with Al Davis having some interesting papers from back when he dealt with the Morabito widows when finding new owners for the Niners).
Afterall we are both founder members of the AAFC and we share a lot of history and as it seems a fight to keep our teams where they belong.
You can check out the debate over at SF49ers.com and add your opinions on what it's like almost losing your team.
http://forums.49ers.com/messageboard/forumdisplay.php?f=26
How were the lawsuits filed by the way?
I would like to thank you for the info I've got so far (escpecially from The Gipper).
So I'll look up...
* The Cleveland Plain Dealer
* The Akron Beacon Journal
* Books published
* ESPN special on Art Modell
And also...
* An unbreakable lease (I think that's actually a fact with Al Davis having some interesting papers from back when he dealt with the Morabito widows when finding new owners for the Niners).
Afterall we are both founder members of the AAFC and we share a lot of history and as it seems a fight to keep our teams where they belong.
You can check out the debate over at SF49ers.com and add your opinions on what it's like almost losing your team.
http://forums.49ers.com/messageboard/forumdisplay.php?f=26
How were the lawsuits filed by the way?
The book "False Start" by Terry Pluto is the best source on the move...and depressing.
I grew up less than 4 miles from Municipal Stadium, I know what you are thinking. The Niners should play temporarily in Berkley or Oakland after blowing up Candlestick & rebuilding.
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They don't, and why the NFL won't do anything about the move if it happens.
You get in to wine country north of the city...so a move south probably helps more fans if there is any impact to fans.
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The Gipper
My luck! I've stumbled across a lawman. YES!!!
So all that has to be done, in reality, is to file a lawsuit within the city limits of San Francisco against the Yorks (should measure J pass on june 8th) at any given county under the jurisdiction of the city of San Francisco, right? And all you need to do is pay a filing fee to get the lawsuit into the legal system.
A couple of follow up question...
1. Would a lawsuit like that carry more weight if more people would sign it or would multiple lawsuits filed under only one name be a better strategy?
2. Can lawsuits, in this case, be filed outside of the USA? If yes, will they carry the same weight?
3. Did the intervention of the NFL, at this stage (during the filing of the lawsuits), help bringing this up in priority in the courts around Cleveland (or was it just the Cuyahoga County Common Pleas Court)?
You have got to be kidding me. Asking for legal advice like that on an open forum? I should charge you! Nevertheless, I will give you a nickel's worth of free advice:
1. The first thing you have to have is standing to file a lawsuit. It doesn't matter how many people are involved. The City of Cleveland had a written lease agreement signed by the Cleveland Browns and Art Modell with the City as the other signatory to the contract. Do YOU or anyone you know have a written contract signed between yourself and the Yorks which obligates them to play their games inside the city limits of San Francisco.
If you don't have that your lawsuit papers can be put to better use lining a birdcage.
2. WTF are you talking about filing it outside the US? It would carry NO weight being filed outside the US. It has to be filed in the jurisdiction that is the situs of the action. On what planet did you come up with that question.
3. The NFL's intervention in the Browns case was to serve as a facilitor to come up with a negotiated settlement. The final settlement to keep the Browns franchise in Cleveland together with its history etc. to be reactivated in a few years, to grant a new franchise to Baltimore and Modell, and to let him then take his jock straps and toilet seat with him was massaged through back and forth talks designed to keep the case OUT of the court and a trial. It had nothing to do with setting any kind of priority on the court's docket.
Sorry kid, you are grasping at straws. Stay the F*** out of the court's. If anyone is going to file a suit, leave it to the City of San Francisco. Unless YOU are the Mayor of San Francisco, stay out of it. Your best bet: Have the city of San Francisco build a new Stadium for the Niners. And put a lot of cash in the York's pocket. That is how you will keep them inside San Fran proper.
Otherwise, you can go get signatures protesting the Niners move. Then go get that birdcage and put your petition there.
You have got to be kidding me. Asking for legal advice like that on an open forum? I should charge you!
Nevertheless, I will give you a nickel's worth of free advice:
1. The first thing you have to have is standing to file a lawsuit. It doesn't matter how many people are involved. The City of Cleveland had a written lease agreement signed by the Cleveland Browns and Art Modell with the City as the other signatory to the contract. Do YOU or anyone you know have a written contract signed between yourself and the Yorks which obligates them to play their games inside the city limits of San Francisco.
If you don't have that your lawsuit papers can be put to better use lining a birdcage.
That's where the shoe doesn't fit. No one really knows, not officially at least, how long the lease actually, goes. Some say 2013, some say 2014, some say 2016 and some say only Al Davis knows the truth since the time he helped the widows of Tony and Vic Morabito to find new owners of the Niners (late 70s) and found the DeBartolo's from Youngstown, Ohio. Some of Al's partners wanted tp buy the Niners at the time but the Morabito widows suggested a six-figure finders fee to Al if he could find them some new owners.
2. WTF are you talking about filing it outside the US? It would carry NO weight being filed outside the US. It has to be filed in the jurisdiction that is the situs of the action. On what planet did you come up with that question.
I meant filing at the appropriate place from outside the US. Not filing it outside of the US.
3. The NFL's intervention in the Browns case was to serve as a facilitor to come up with a negotiated settlement. The final settlement to keep the Browns franchise in Cleveland together with its history etc. to be reactivated in a few years, to grant a new franchise to Baltimore and Modell, and to let him then take his jock straps and toilet seat with him was massaged through back and forth talks designed to keep the case OUT of the court and a trial. It had nothing to do with setting any kind of priority on the court's docket.
I understand what you're saying but the lawsuits had to be a leverage to keep this case outside of the court, right? The hassel to go through all the lawsuits would be too costly and would just stall Modell's final get go to found the Baltimore Ravens. So theoretically speaking, the more you involve the courts, the more the NFL and the Yorks will be pissed? It will stall their plans, right?
Sorry kid, you are grasping at straws. Stay the F*** out of the court's. If anyone is going to file a suit, leave it to the City of San Francisco. Unless YOU are the Mayor of San Francisco, stay out of it. Your best bet: Have the city of San Francisco build a new Stadium for the Niners. And put a lot of cash in the York's pocket. That is how you will keep them inside San Fran proper.
Otherwise, you can go get signatures protesting the Niners move. Then go get that birdcage and put your petition there.
But the Yorks don't want to listen. The city of San Francisco passed a vote twice to build a new stadium. In 1997 and in 2006 when Lennar was given the go ahead to remodel Hunter's Point. They Yorks have pushed on with their agenda. Why should the city line the pockets of a family that lucked into the ownership of the Niners when Eddie DeBartolo Jr. was stripped of it? Why?
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You have got to be kidding me. Asking for legal advice like that on an open forum? I should charge you!
Nevertheless, I will give you a nickel's worth of free advice:
1. The first thing you have to have is standing to file a lawsuit. It doesn't matter how many people are involved. The City of Cleveland had a written lease agreement signed by the Cleveland Browns and Art Modell with the City as the other signatory to the contract. Do YOU or anyone you know have a written contract signed between yourself and the Yorks which obligates them to play their games inside the city limits of San Francisco.
If you don't have that your lawsuit papers can be put to better use lining a birdcage.
That's where the shoe doesn't fit. No one really knows, not officially at least, how long the lease actually, goes. Some say 2013, some say 2014, some say 2016 and some say only Al Davis knows the truth since the time he helped the widows of Tony and Vic Morabito to find new owners of the Niners (late 70s) and found the DeBartolo's from Youngstown, Ohio. Some of Al's partners wanted tp buy the Niners at the time but the Morabito widows suggested a six-figure finders fee to Al if he could find them some new owners.
2. WTF are you talking about filing it outside the US? It would carry NO weight being filed outside the US. It has to be filed in the jurisdiction that is the situs of the action. On what planet did you come up with that question.
I meant filing at the appropriate place from outside the US. Not filing it outside of the US.
3. The NFL's intervention in the Browns case was to serve as a facilitor to come up with a negotiated settlement. The final settlement to keep the Browns franchise in Cleveland together with its history etc. to be reactivated in a few years, to grant a new franchise to Baltimore and Modell, and to let him then take his jock straps and toilet seat with him was massaged through back and forth talks designed to keep the case OUT of the court and a trial. It had nothing to do with setting any kind of priority on the court's docket.
I understand what you're saying but the lawsuits had to be a leverage to keep this case outside of the court, right? The hassel to go through all the lawsuits would be too costly and would just stall Modell's final get go to found the Baltimore Ravens. So theoretically speaking, the more you involve the courts, the more the NFL and the Yorks will be pissed? It will stall their plans, right?
Sorry kid, you are grasping at straws. Stay the F*** out of the court's. If anyone is going to file a suit, leave it to the City of San Francisco. Unless YOU are the Mayor of San Francisco, stay out of it. Your best bet: Have the city of San Francisco build a new Stadium for the Niners. And put a lot of cash in the York's pocket. That is how you will keep them inside San Fran proper.
Otherwise, you can go get signatures protesting the Niners move. Then go get that birdcage and put your petition there.
But the Yorks don't want to listen. The city of San Francisco passed a vote twice to build a new stadium. In 1997 and in 2006 when Lennar was given the go ahead to remodel Hunter's Point. They Yorks have pushed on with their agenda. Why should the city line the pockets of a family that lucked into the ownership of the Niners when Eddie DeBartolo Jr. was stripped of it? Why?
Why should the city line the pockets of a family that lucked into the ownership of the Niners when Eddie DeBartolo Jr. was stripped of it? Why?
Because those "lined pockets" also pay the salaries of all your coaches and players.
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I would like to thank you for the info I've got so far (escpecially from The Gipper).
So I'll look up...
* The Cleveland Plain Dealer
* The Akron Beacon Journal
* Books published
* ESPN special on Art Modell
And also...
* An unbreakable lease (I think that's actually a fact with Al Davis having some interesting papers from back when he dealt with the Morabito widows when finding new owners for the Niners).
Afterall we are both founder members of the AAFC and we share a lot of history and as it seems a fight to keep our teams where they belong.
You can check out the debate over at SF49ers.com and add your opinions on what it's like almost losing your team.
http://forums.49ers.com/messageboard/forumdisplay.php?f=26
How were the lawsuits filed by the way?
The book "False Start" by Terry Pluto is the best source on the move...and depressing.
I grew up less than 4 miles from Municipal Stadium, I know what you are thinking. The Niners should play temporarily in Berkley or Oakland after blowing up Candlestick & rebuilding.
The book "False Start" by Terry Pluto is the best source on the move...and depressing.
I grew up less than 4 miles from Municipal Stadium, I know what you are thinking. The Niners should play temporarily in Berkley or Oakland after blowing up Candlestick & rebuilding.
Thanks man! I appreciate it.
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Why should the city line the pockets of a family that lucked into the ownership of the Niners when Eddie DeBartolo Jr. was stripped of it? Why?
Because those "lined pockets" also pay the salaries of all your coaches and players.
Because those "lined pockets" also pay the salaries of all your coaches and players.
But screw the coaches and players. They are no good. It's been downhill for the Niners since Mariucci was fired by John York. This current organization might win the NFC West, TOPS! And that's only because Kurt Warner will retire. Imagine how pathetic...being held up by Kurt Warner, a 39 year old. Few actually care.
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Because those "lined pockets" also pay the salaries of all your coaches and players.
But screw the coaches and players. They are no good. It's been downhill for the Niners since Mariucci was fired by John York. This current organization might win the NFC West, TOPS! And that's only because Kurt Warner will retire. Imagine how pathetic...being held up by Kurt Warner, a 39 year old. Few actually care.
But screw the coaches and players. They are no good. It's been downhill for the Niners since Mariucci was fired by John York. This current organization might win the NFC West, TOPS! And that's only because Kurt Warner will retire. Imagine how pathetic...being held up by Kurt Warner, a 39 year old. Few actually care.
I think Singletary is a great coach. He is slowly turning your organization around.
Marriucci is a terrible coach. He's proved it elsewhere.
I think Smith will surprise you and your new OL will get great in a year or two.
But regardless your complaints about your owner, he can't be as bad as Davis or Snyder.
And regardless of how effective you think the organization is... the fact is, the owner pays the salaries of all who play/coach/run the team for them. As such, they have the right every American business man has, to make money.
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You have got to be kidding me. Asking for legal advice like that on an open forum? I should charge you!
Nevertheless, I will give you a nickel's worth of free advice:
1. The first thing you have to have is standing to file a lawsuit. It doesn't matter how many people are involved. The City of Cleveland had a written lease agreement signed by the Cleveland Browns and Art Modell with the City as the other signatory to the contract. Do YOU or anyone you know have a written contract signed between yourself and the Yorks which obligates them to play their games inside the city limits of San Francisco.
If you don't have that your lawsuit papers can be put to better use lining a birdcage.
That's where the shoe doesn't fit. No one really knows, not officially at least, how long the lease actually, goes. Some say 2013, some say 2014, some say 2016 and some say only Al Davis knows the truth since the time he helped the widows of Tony and Vic Morabito to find new owners of the Niners (late 70s) and found the DeBartolo's from Youngstown, Ohio. Some of Al's partners wanted tp buy the Niners at the time but the Morabito widows suggested a six-figure finders fee to Al if he could find them some new owners.
2. WTF are you talking about filing it outside the US? It would carry NO weight being filed outside the US. It has to be filed in the jurisdiction that is the situs of the action. On what planet did you come up with that question.
I meant filing at the appropriate place from outside the US. Not filing it outside of the US.
3. The NFL's intervention in the Browns case was to serve as a facilitor to come up with a negotiated settlement. The final settlement to keep the Browns franchise in Cleveland together with its history etc. to be reactivated in a few years, to grant a new franchise to Baltimore and Modell, and to let him then take his jock straps and toilet seat with him was massaged through back and forth talks designed to keep the case OUT of the court and a trial. It had nothing to do with setting any kind of priority on the court's docket.
I understand what you're saying but the lawsuits had to be a leverage to keep this case outside of the court, right? The hassel to go through all the lawsuits would be too costly and would just stall Modell's final get go to found the Baltimore Ravens. So theoretically speaking, the more you involve the courts, the more the NFL and the Yorks will be pissed? It will stall their plans, right?
Sorry kid, you are grasping at straws. Stay the F*** out of the court's. If anyone is going to file a suit, leave it to the City of San Francisco. Unless YOU are the Mayor of San Francisco, stay out of it. Your best bet: Have the city of San Francisco build a new Stadium for the Niners. And put a lot of cash in the York's pocket. That is how you will keep them inside San Fran proper.
Otherwise, you can go get signatures protesting the Niners move. Then go get that birdcage and put your petition there.
But the Yorks don't want to listen. The city of San Francisco passed a vote twice to build a new stadium. In 1997 and in 2006 when Lennar was given the go ahead to remodel Hunter's Point. They Yorks have pushed on with their agenda. Why should the city line the pockets of a family that lucked into the ownership of the Niners when Eddie DeBartolo Jr. was stripped of it? Why?
That's where the shoe doesn't fit. No one really knows, not officially at least, how long the lease actually, goes. Some say 2013, some say 2014, some say 2016 and some say only Al Davis knows the truth since the time he helped the widows of Tony and Vic Morabito to find new owners of the Niners (late 70s) and found the DeBartolo's from Youngstown, Ohio. Some of Al's partners wanted tp buy the Niners at the time but the Morabito widows suggested a six-figure finders fee to Al if he could find them some new owners.
Trust me. Someone knows. The NFL office knows. Team leases are required to be filed with the League.
I meant filing at the appropriate place from outside the US. Not filing it outside of the US.
I guess you could mail it in from whereever you are. My advice is: don't bother.
I understand what you're saying but the lawsuits had to be a leverage to keep this case outside of the court, right? The hassel to go through all the lawsuits would be too costly and would just stall Modell's final get go to found the Baltimore Ravens. So theoretically speaking, the more you involve the courts, the more the NFL and the Yorks will be pissed? It will stall their plans, right?
No, you just don't understand. Your so called case is frivolous, and it could be YOU paying THEM for bringing a frivolous case. And it wouldn't hold them up one second.
But the Yorks don't want to listen. The city of San Francisco passed a vote twice to build a new stadium. In 1997 and in 2006 when Lennar was given the go ahead to remodel Hunter's Point. They Yorks have pushed on with their agenda. Why should the city line the pockets of a family that lucked into the ownership of the Niners when Eddie DeBartolo Jr. was stripped of it? Why?
Well, there must be some serious trouble with the SF proposal if York doesn't accept it. I have no clue what it is. As far as the Yorks "lucking" into the team, the fact is, they are the same family. Denise is a DeBartolo. She always had some ownership of the team, she didn't have control until Eddie screwed the pooch and had to give it up to her. The thing is, what difference does that make? They own the team.
Why they would insist on going to Santa Clara if there was a good and viable offer from San Fran, I have no clue. It would require more info for me to figure that out.
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Fumble! by Michael Poplar is an excellent book on the Browns and the events leading up to Modell's move of the team. Poplar worked for Modell as vice president/treasurer of the Stadium Corp from 1975 to 1996. The book provides an insider's view of the blunders of Modell and city officials/politicians that resulted in the move to Baltimore.
It does not cover the specific topic of how the NFL was petitioned to get our team back, but it is a great read for those interested in Browns history.
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I basicly have nothing to add. Most of you guys seem knowledable enough in this discussion about the club that is your twin in football history. 1946 is OUR year. It's the year we were born. If you care you could help by stating what it is to almost lose your team. You can voice your opinion. You can state it here. Guess you have to register...
http://forums.49ers.com/messageboard/forumdisplay.php?f=26
I thank you all for the advices and discussions here today and I hope you all keep at least some space in your hearts for the San Francisco 49ers and the future of this ball clube. We are tied at the waste by history and by Ohio. Please understand our struggle as we understood yours.
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Zombo said:
Dude ... it's just Santa Clara.
They'll still be the San Francisco 49ers, you just have to drive your hybrid a half hour to get there.
Zombo
Maybe the batteries wont last that long or something.
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Fumble! by Michael Poplar is an excellent book on the Browns and the events leading up to Modell's move of the team. Poplar worked for Modell as vice president/treasurer of the Stadium Corp from 1975 to 1996. The book provides an insider's view of the blunders of Modell and city officials/politicians that resulted in the move to Baltimore.
It does not cover the specific topic of how the NFL was petitioned to get our team back, but it is a great read for those interested in Browns history.
Fumble! by Michael Poplar is an excellent book on the Browns and the events leading up to Modell's move of the team. Poplar worked for Modell as vice president/treasurer of the Stadium Corp from 1975 to 1996. The book provides an insider's view of the blunders of Modell and city officials/politicians that resulted in the move to Baltimore.
It does not cover the specific topic of how the NFL was petitioned to get our team back, but it is a great read for those interested in Browns history.
Thank you too! Most of you guys really came up big today. I'm going to digest all good advices over the next few weeks. Keep your fingers crossed for the Niners because we're in deep trouble.
THANK YOU!
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I basicly have nothing to add. Most of you guys seem knowledable enough in this discussion about the club that is your twin in football history. 1946 is OUR year. It's the year we were born. If you care you could help by stating what it is to almost lose your team. You can voice your opinion. You can state it here. Guess you have to register...
http://forums.49ers.com/messageboard/forumdisplay.php?f=26
I thank you all for the advices and discussions here today and I hope you all keep at least some space in your hearts for the San Francisco 49ers and the future of this ball clube. We are tied at the waste by history and by Ohio. Please understand our struggle as we understood yours.
I basicly have nothing to add. Most of you guys seem knowledable enough in this discussion about the club that is your twin in football history. 1946 is OUR year. It's the year we were born. If you care you could help by stating what it is to almost lose your team. You can voice your opinion. You can state it here. Guess you have to register...
http://forums.49ers.com/messageboard/forumdisplay.php?f=26
I thank you all for the advices and discussions here today and I hope you all keep at least some space in your hearts for the San Francisco 49ers and the future of this ball clube. We are tied at the waste by history and by Ohio. Please understand our struggle as we understood yours.
I support his agenda. As a cleveland fan, I feel your pain. I feel that it should not be moving out of San Fran.
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I basicly have nothing to add. Most of you guys seem knowledable enough in this discussion about the club that is your twin in football history. 1946 is OUR year. It's the year we were born. If you care you could help by stating what it is to almost lose your team. You can voice your opinion. You can state it here. Guess you have to register...
http://forums.49ers.com/messageboard/forumdisplay.php?f=26
I thank you all for the advices and discussions here today and I hope you all keep at least some space in your hearts for the San Francisco 49ers and the future of this ball clube. We are tied at the waste by history and by Ohio. Please understand our struggle as we understood yours.
I support his agenda. As a cleveland fan, I feel your pain. I feel that it should not be moving out of San Fran.
I support his agenda. As a cleveland fan, I feel your pain. I feel that it should not be moving out of San Fran.
Yea, but how about this:
When the Browns had threatened to leave and take their history etc. with them, there was a bit of a discussion about the possibility of bringing a new franchise here. It was even suggested/speculated that the new franchise could have ended up occupying a renovated Fawcett Stadium in Canton and be known as The Canton Bulldogs.
Now, that wouldn't be the same as keeping The Browns, but....could all you Northeast Ohio football fans have seen it in your hearts to support an NFL franchise located in Canton with the Cleveland/Akron area still its primary basis of support?
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The Akron Beacon Journal was a no go as they only have a searchable online archive back to 2001.
Although this looks like something interesting from The Cleveland Plan Dealer...
BROWNS OR NOTHING: DON'T STEAL A TEAM
'Author: JOE DIRCK
Date: December 10, 1995
Publication: Plain Dealer, The (Cleveland, OH)
Page: 1B
The hot rumor du jour last week had the Tampa Bay Buccaneers moving to Cleveland and becoming the Browns, with the ex-Browns moving to Baltimore and becoming the Buccaneers. Or something like that.
It's getting hard to keep all this straight. Let's see - first it was the Bengals moving here and calling themselves the Browns; then it was the Seahawks who supposedly were on their way.
And now Tampa Bay. Little more than a month has passed since the...'
And then you have to pay for the rest.
Anybody remember this one?
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This one, also from the Plain Dealer, looks interesting...
'LAWYERS'LAST RESORT NOT LEAST, BUT LEASE
Author: MARK ROLLENHAGEN PLAIN DEALER REPORTER
Date: February 4, 1996
Publication: Plain Dealer, The (Cleveland, OH)
Page: 10A
It was a last resort when lawyers hired by the city decided to read the lease that had allowed the Browns to play in the Stadium for the past 22 years.
Asked by Mayor Michael R. White to come up with a viable lawsuit to keep the Browns from moving to Baltimore, a team of lawyers from Squire, Sanders and Dempsey had spent the weekend of Nov. 4 reading cases in which other cities used various legal claims to try to block a team move.
"It was not fun reading,".'
Or this one...
'CITY, NFL NEAR DEAL THAT LETS BROWNS GO NAME, COLORS WOULD STAY; A NEW TEAM PROMISED
Author: STEPHEN KOFF, TONY GROSSI and TIMOTHY HEIDER PLAIN DEALER REPORTERS
Date: February 8, 1996
Publication: Plain Dealer, The (Cleveland, OH)
Page: 1A
Mayor Michael R. White is to arrive in Chicago today possibly to help finalize a deal that could allow the Browns to move to Baltimore, if Cleveland would be guaranteed a football team upon completion of a new stadium.
Intensive negotiations to keep NFL football in Cleveland continued on the eve of a league owners'meeting, but the framework of a deal appeared to be developing late last night and early this morning.
A source close to the negotiations said the framework...'
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This one, also from the Plain Dealer, looks interesting...
'LAWYERS'LAST RESORT NOT LEAST, BUT LEASE
Author: MARK ROLLENHAGEN PLAIN DEALER REPORTER
Date: February 4, 1996
Publication: Plain Dealer, The (Cleveland, OH)
Page: 10A
It was a last resort when lawyers hired by the city decided to read the lease that had allowed the Browns to play in the Stadium for the past 22 years.
Asked by Mayor Michael R. White to come up with a viable lawsuit to keep the Browns from moving to Baltimore, a team of lawyers from Squire, Sanders and Dempsey had spent the weekend of Nov. 4 reading cases in which other cities used various legal claims to try to block a team move.
"It was not fun reading,".'
Or this one...
'CITY, NFL NEAR DEAL THAT LETS BROWNS GO NAME, COLORS WOULD STAY; A NEW TEAM PROMISED
Author: STEPHEN KOFF, TONY GROSSI and TIMOTHY HEIDER PLAIN DEALER REPORTERS
Date: February 8, 1996
Publication: Plain Dealer, The (Cleveland, OH)
Page: 1A
Mayor Michael R. White is to arrive in Chicago today possibly to help finalize a deal that could allow the Browns to move to Baltimore, if Cleveland would be guaranteed a football team upon completion of a new stadium.
Intensive negotiations to keep NFL football in Cleveland continued on the eve of a league owners'meeting, but the framework of a deal appeared to be developing late last night and early this morning.
A source close to the negotiations said the framework...'
This one, also from the Plain Dealer, looks interesting...
'LAWYERS'LAST RESORT NOT LEAST, BUT LEASE
Author: MARK ROLLENHAGEN PLAIN DEALER REPORTER
Date: February 4, 1996
Publication: Plain Dealer, The (Cleveland, OH)
Page: 10A
It was a last resort when lawyers hired by the city decided to read the lease that had allowed the Browns to play in the Stadium for the past 22 years.
Asked by Mayor Michael R. White to come up with a viable lawsuit to keep the Browns from moving to Baltimore, a team of lawyers from Squire, Sanders and Dempsey had spent the weekend of Nov. 4 reading cases in which other cities used various legal claims to try to block a team move.
"It was not fun reading,".'
Or this one...
'CITY, NFL NEAR DEAL THAT LETS BROWNS GO NAME, COLORS WOULD STAY; A NEW TEAM PROMISED
Author: STEPHEN KOFF, TONY GROSSI and TIMOTHY HEIDER PLAIN DEALER REPORTERS
Date: February 8, 1996
Publication: Plain Dealer, The (Cleveland, OH)
Page: 1A
Mayor Michael R. White is to arrive in Chicago today possibly to help finalize a deal that could allow the Browns to move to Baltimore, if Cleveland would be guaranteed a football team upon completion of a new stadium.
Intensive negotiations to keep NFL football in Cleveland continued on the eve of a league owners'meeting, but the framework of a deal appeared to be developing late last night and early this morning.
A source close to the negotiations said the framework...'
This is like one big nightmare happening all over again lol.
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I admire your passion York, but if a move actually hits the plate as reality, the NFL or a court of law isn't going to stop it.
The only thing that will stop it is if SF puts together a stadium package/tax package that is comparable to what is being offered 30 miles south.
How old is the stadium the Niners play in....I really don't know, but if it is older than maybe 15 years, stadium designs have really changed and owners need to be able to get as many private boxes as possible.
The template you see in new stadiums is the template that will be used for the next 40 years....so you need to get moving with that.
The city needs to find a location large enough to fund a new stadium....or use the existing site and for 3-4 years work a deal with Stanford to use their stadium while your new facility is being razed and rebuilt.
I don't know the footprint of a stadium....maybe 40 acres??? How many sites in SF that are level enough to undertake such a project without moving mountains of dirt???
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
I support his agenda. As a cleveland fan, I feel your pain. I feel that it should not be moving out of San Fran.
Yea, but how about this:
When the Browns had threatened to leave and take their history etc. with them, there was a bit of a discussion about the possibility of bringing a new franchise here. It was even suggested/speculated that the new franchise could have ended up occupying a renovated Fawcett Stadium in Canton and be known as The Canton Bulldogs.
Now, that wouldn't be the same as keeping The Browns, but....could all you Northeast Ohio football fans have seen it in your hearts to support an NFL franchise located in Canton with the Cleveland/Akron area still its primary basis of support?
Yea, but how about this:
When the Browns had threatened to leave and take their history etc. with them, there was a bit of a discussion about the possibility of bringing a new franchise here. It was even suggested/speculated that the new franchise could have ended up occupying a renovated Fawcett Stadium in Canton and be known as The Canton Bulldogs.
Now, that wouldn't be the same as keeping The Browns, but....could all you Northeast Ohio football fans have seen it in your hearts to support an NFL franchise located in Canton with the Cleveland/Akron area still its primary basis of support?
I guess any team is better then no team right?
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