Hello, Niner fan here.
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This one, also from the Plain Dealer, looks interesting...
'LAWYERS'LAST RESORT NOT LEAST, BUT LEASE
Author: MARK ROLLENHAGEN PLAIN DEALER REPORTER
Date: February 4, 1996
Publication: Plain Dealer, The (Cleveland, OH)
Page: 10A
It was a last resort when lawyers hired by the city decided to read the lease that had allowed the Browns to play in the Stadium for the past 22 years.
Asked by Mayor Michael R. White to come up with a viable lawsuit to keep the Browns from moving to Baltimore, a team of lawyers from Squire, Sanders and Dempsey had spent the weekend of Nov. 4 reading cases in which other cities used various legal claims to try to block a team move.
"It was not fun reading,".'
Or this one...
'CITY, NFL NEAR DEAL THAT LETS BROWNS GO NAME, COLORS WOULD STAY; A NEW TEAM PROMISED
Author: STEPHEN KOFF, TONY GROSSI and TIMOTHY HEIDER PLAIN DEALER REPORTERS
Date: February 8, 1996
Publication: Plain Dealer, The (Cleveland, OH)
Page: 1A
Mayor Michael R. White is to arrive in Chicago today possibly to help finalize a deal that could allow the Browns to move to Baltimore, if Cleveland would be guaranteed a football team upon completion of a new stadium.
Intensive negotiations to keep NFL football in Cleveland continued on the eve of a league owners'meeting, but the framework of a deal appeared to be developing late last night and early this morning.
A source close to the negotiations said the framework...'
This one, also from the Plain Dealer, looks interesting...
'LAWYERS'LAST RESORT NOT LEAST, BUT LEASE
Author: MARK ROLLENHAGEN PLAIN DEALER REPORTER
Date: February 4, 1996
Publication: Plain Dealer, The (Cleveland, OH)
Page: 10A
It was a last resort when lawyers hired by the city decided to read the lease that had allowed the Browns to play in the Stadium for the past 22 years.
Asked by Mayor Michael R. White to come up with a viable lawsuit to keep the Browns from moving to Baltimore, a team of lawyers from Squire, Sanders and Dempsey had spent the weekend of Nov. 4 reading cases in which other cities used various legal claims to try to block a team move.
"It was not fun reading,".'
Or this one...
'CITY, NFL NEAR DEAL THAT LETS BROWNS GO NAME, COLORS WOULD STAY; A NEW TEAM PROMISED
Author: STEPHEN KOFF, TONY GROSSI and TIMOTHY HEIDER PLAIN DEALER REPORTERS
Date: February 8, 1996
Publication: Plain Dealer, The (Cleveland, OH)
Page: 1A
Mayor Michael R. White is to arrive in Chicago today possibly to help finalize a deal that could allow the Browns to move to Baltimore, if Cleveland would be guaranteed a football team upon completion of a new stadium.
Intensive negotiations to keep NFL football in Cleveland continued on the eve of a league owners'meeting, but the framework of a deal appeared to be developing late last night and early this morning.
A source close to the negotiations said the framework...'
This is like one big nightmare happening all over again lol.
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I admire your passion York, but if a move actually hits the plate as reality, the NFL or a court of law isn't going to stop it.
The only thing that will stop it is if SF puts together a stadium package/tax package that is comparable to what is being offered 30 miles south.
How old is the stadium the Niners play in....I really don't know, but if it is older than maybe 15 years, stadium designs have really changed and owners need to be able to get as many private boxes as possible.
The template you see in new stadiums is the template that will be used for the next 40 years....so you need to get moving with that.
The city needs to find a location large enough to fund a new stadium....or use the existing site and for 3-4 years work a deal with Stanford to use their stadium while your new facility is being razed and rebuilt.
I don't know the footprint of a stadium....maybe 40 acres??? How many sites in SF that are level enough to undertake such a project without moving mountains of dirt???
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
I support his agenda. As a cleveland fan, I feel your pain. I feel that it should not be moving out of San Fran.
Yea, but how about this:
When the Browns had threatened to leave and take their history etc. with them, there was a bit of a discussion about the possibility of bringing a new franchise here. It was even suggested/speculated that the new franchise could have ended up occupying a renovated Fawcett Stadium in Canton and be known as The Canton Bulldogs.
Now, that wouldn't be the same as keeping The Browns, but....could all you Northeast Ohio football fans have seen it in your hearts to support an NFL franchise located in Canton with the Cleveland/Akron area still its primary basis of support?
Yea, but how about this:
When the Browns had threatened to leave and take their history etc. with them, there was a bit of a discussion about the possibility of bringing a new franchise here. It was even suggested/speculated that the new franchise could have ended up occupying a renovated Fawcett Stadium in Canton and be known as The Canton Bulldogs.
Now, that wouldn't be the same as keeping The Browns, but....could all you Northeast Ohio football fans have seen it in your hearts to support an NFL franchise located in Canton with the Cleveland/Akron area still its primary basis of support?
I guess any team is better then no team right?
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Yea, but how about this:
When the Browns had threatened to leave and take their history etc. with them, there was a bit of a discussion about the possibility of bringing a new franchise here. It was even suggested/speculated that the new franchise could have ended up occupying a renovated Fawcett Stadium in Canton and be known as The Canton Bulldogs.
Now, that wouldn't be the same as keeping The Browns, but....could all you Northeast Ohio football fans have seen it in your hearts to support an NFL franchise located in Canton with the Cleveland/Akron area still its primary basis of support?
I guess any team is better then no team right?
I guess any team is better then no team right?
I suppose so, but having lived out of Cleveland for decades, it wouldn't be the same for me. I probably would have become a full fledged Titans or Falcons fan.....at least semi-full fledged
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I was so crushed by the Browns leaving i quit watching the NFL
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I was so crushed by the Browns leaving i quit watching the NFL
I was so crushed by the Browns leaving i quit watching the NFL
to be honest, i did too.
I don't think I watched any NFl game, Super Bowls included in entirety.
It's when I reconnected with the Gators and college football.
I have held Gator tickets for 33 years now, but before the move only went to maybe a game or two a year....my buddy who sits next to me buys up any I don't use for business purposes.
After the move....I started going to 2-3-4 and realized I really like college football.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
I admire your passion York, but if a move actually hits the plate as reality, the NFL or a court of law isn't going to stop it.
The only thing that will stop it is if SF puts together a stadium package/tax package that is comparable to what is being offered 30 miles south.
How old is the stadium the Niners play in....I really don't know, but if it is older than maybe 15 years, stadium designs have really changed and owners need to be able to get as many private boxes as possible.
The template you see in new stadiums is the template that will be used for the next 40 years....so you need to get moving with that.
The city needs to find a location large enough to fund a new stadium....or use the existing site and for 3-4 years work a deal with Stanford to use their stadium while your new facility is being razed and rebuilt.
I don't know the footprint of a stadium....maybe 40 acres??? How many sites in SF that are level enough to undertake such a project without moving mountains of dirt???
I admire your passion York, but if a move actually hits the plate as reality, the NFL or a court of law isn't going to stop it.
The only thing that will stop it is if SF puts together a stadium package/tax package that is comparable to what is being offered 30 miles south.
How old is the stadium the Niners play in....I really don't know, but if it is older than maybe 15 years, stadium designs have really changed and owners need to be able to get as many private boxes as possible.
The template you see in new stadiums is the template that will be used for the next 40 years....so you need to get moving with that.
The city needs to find a location large enough to fund a new stadium....or use the existing site and for 3-4 years work a deal with Stanford to use their stadium while your new facility is being razed and rebuilt.
I don't know the footprint of a stadium....maybe 40 acres??? How many sites in SF that are level enough to undertake such a project without moving mountains of dirt???
Well, according to this guy, the team moving to Stanford/Palo Alto would be unacceptable....and "abandonment" of the City. He wouldn't apparently even accept a move to Daly City, or Half Moon Bay or Burlingame, or even South San Francisco (yes, there is a town by that name). His position apparently is that the Cleveland Cavaliers when they played in Richfield, weren't the Cleveland Cavaliers and that the city of Cleveland should have been awarded a separate franchise.
Yes, I am sensative to the plight of teams abandoning their cities. But there is an issue of dimension. When Art Modell bought land in Strongsville to build a stadium there, no Browns fan would have really complained about that (Downtown merchants and the Cleveland Treasurer may have, but not the fans). How far away would that have been from the team's current location? At least about 25-30 miles.
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I was so crushed by the Browns leaving i quit watching the NFL
to be honest, i did too.
I don't think I watched any NFl game, Super Bowls included in entirety.
It's when I reconnected with the Gators and college football.
I have held Gator tickets for 33 years now, but before the move only went to maybe a game or two a year....my buddy who sits next to me buys up any I don't use for business purposes.
After the move....I started going to 2-3-4 and realized I really like college football.
to be honest, i did too.
I don't think I watched any NFl game, Super Bowls included in entirety.
It's when I reconnected with the Gators and college football.
I have held Gator tickets for 33 years now, but before the move only went to maybe a game or two a year....my buddy who sits next to me buys up any I don't use for business purposes.
After the move....I started going to 2-3-4 and realized I really like college football.
Gators suck swamp water.
No, really, they do. How do you think those reptilians get hydrated?
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I admire your passion York, but if a move actually hits the plate as reality, the NFL or a court of law isn't going to stop it.
The only thing that will stop it is if SF puts together a stadium package/tax package that is comparable to what is being offered 30 miles south.
How old is the stadium the Niners play in....I really don't know, but if it is older than maybe 15 years, stadium designs have really changed and owners need to be able to get as many private boxes as possible.
The template you see in new stadiums is the template that will be used for the next 40 years....so you need to get moving with that.
The city needs to find a location large enough to fund a new stadium....or use the existing site and for 3-4 years work a deal with Stanford to use their stadium while your new facility is being razed and rebuilt.
I don't know the footprint of a stadium....maybe 40 acres??? How many sites in SF that are level enough to undertake such a project without moving mountains of dirt???
Sorry, I missed your post yesterday.
I admire your passion York, but if a move actually hits the plate as reality, the NFL or a court of law isn't going to stop it.
Why not? Even the mayor (Gavin Newsom) has said they could file a lawsuit and take away the San Francisco part and they would win. But that would only be a hollow win. The debate is who has the right to the history and legacy.
The only thing that will stop it is if SF puts together a stadium package/tax package that is comparable to what is being offered 30 miles south.
There is a stadium package. It's even bigger than that. It's a total remodeling of the Hunter's Point naval base with housing, malls, green industries and of course a waterfront stadium. All that is in place and passed by voters in th city twice. In 1997 and 2006.
How old is the stadium the Niners play in....I really don't know, but if it is older than maybe 15 years, stadium designs have really changed and owners need to be able to get as many private boxes as possible.
It's the old SF Giants home from 1960 and the Niners moved there from Kezar Stadium in 1971. That shouldn't really be a factor in the debate since the Packers play at Lambeau Field opened in 1957.
The template you see in new stadiums is the template that will be used for the next 40 years....so you need to get moving with that.
If you would look at the proposed designs of the Santa Clara stadium you would see how cheap it looks. It looks even cheaper than the Jaguars stadium...
The city needs to find a location large enough to fund a new stadium....or use the existing site and for 3-4 years work a deal with Stanford to use their stadium while your new facility is being razed and rebuilt.
See my answer above. The Niners will play at Candlestick Park until 2013-2014. And they could probably extend that by 1-2 years while Hunter's Point is being cleaned up.
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to be honest, i did too.
I don't think I watched any NFl game, Super Bowls included in entirety.
It's when I reconnected with the Gators and college football.
I have held Gator tickets for 33 years now, but before the move only went to maybe a game or two a year....my buddy who sits next to me buys up any I don't use for business purposes.
After the move....I started going to 2-3-4 and realized I really like college football.
Gators suck swamp water.
No, really, they do. How do you think those reptilians get hydrated?
Gators suck swamp water.
No, really, they do. How do you think those reptilians get hydrated?
I know they do.....I get it....you are jealous to a degree.
You wouldn't dislike the gators if they weren't pretty good.
I like having a team many people don't like. It means you are beating up on people.
Yes Gip, I know, we lost to Alabama.
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Gators suck swamp water.
No, really, they do. How do you think those reptilians get hydrated?
I know they do.....I get it....you are jealous to a degree.
You wouldn't dislike the gators if they weren't pretty good.
I like having a team many people don't like. It means you are beating up on people.
Yes Gip, I know, we lost to Alabama.
I know they do.....I get it....you are jealous to a degree.
You wouldn't dislike the gators if they weren't pretty good.
I like having a team many people don't like. It means you are beating up on people.
Yes Gip, I know, we lost to Alabama.
WE? What? Are you on their paid staff? I don't really dislike the Gators. I just think that some of their fans started getting stupidly arrogant after a win or two. (present company excepted) (sound a little familiar...do the initials PS come to mind.)
As for having a team people don't like....face it, no team is more disliked because of their success than Ohio State. That whole school has had to take on the entire SEC, the entire PAC-10, and good chunk of the ESPN media haters. So OSU supporters have had to have some pretty broad shoulders.
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Just to settle the "NFL moving" claim, the following is the list of the Nielsen DMAs. These are the single markets that the NFL and any sports franchise uses for its primary home viewing area:
Local Television Market Universe Estimates
Comparisons of 2008-09 and 2009-10 Market Ranks
2008-09 2009-10 2009 2010
Rank Rank Difference DMA Name TV Homes TV Homes
1 1 New York 7,433,820 7,493,530
2 2 Los Angeles 5,654,260 5,659,170
3 3 Chicago 3,492,850 3,501,010
4 4 Philadelphia 2,950,220 2,955,190
5 5 Dallas-Ft. Worth 2,489,970 2,544,410
6 6 San Francisco-Oak-San Jose 2,476,450 2,503,400
7 7 Boston (Manchester) 2,409,080 2,410,180
8 8 Atlanta 2,369,780 2,387,520
9 9 Washington, DC (Hagrstwn) 2,321,610 2,335,040
10 10 Houston 2,106,210 2,123,460
11 11 Detroit 1,926,970 1,890,220
12 12 Phoenix (Prescott) 1,855,930 1,873,930
14 13 +1 Seattle-Tacoma 1,819,970 1,833,990
13 14 -1 Tampa-St. Pete (Sarasota) 1,822,160 1,805,810
15 15 Minneapolis-St. Paul 1,730,530 1,732,050
18 16 +2 Denver 1,524,210 1,539,380
16 17 -1 Miami-Ft. Lauderdale 1,546,920 1,538,090
17 18 -1 Cleveland-Akron (Canton) 1,524,930 1,520,750
19 19 Orlando-Daytona Bch-Melbrn 1,466,420 1,455,620
20 20 Sacramnto-Stkton-Modesto 1,399,520 1,404,580
21 21 St. Louis 1,249,820 1,249,450
22 22 Portland, OR 1,175,100 1,188,770
23 23 Pittsburgh 1,156,460 1,154,950
24 24 Charlotte 1,122,860 1,147,910
25 25 Indianapolis 1,114,970 1,119,760
27 26 +1 Raleigh-Durham (Fayetvlle) 1,080,680 1,107,820
26 27 -1 Baltimore 1,102,080 1,093,170
28 28 San Diego 1,066,680 1,073,390
29 29 Nashville 1,016,290 1,019,010
30 30 Hartford & New Haven 1,014,990 1,010,630
33 31 +2 Salt Lake City 919,390 944,060
31 32 -1 Kansas City 937,970 941,360
34 33 +1 Cincinnati 915,570 918,670
32 34 -2 Columbus, OH 925,840 904,030
35 35 Milwaukee 905,350 901,790
36 36 Greenvll-Spart-Ashevll-And 858,050 865,810
37 37 San Antonio 818,560 830,000
38 38 West Palm Beach-Ft. Pierce 779,430 776,080
41 39 +2 Harrisburg-Lncstr-Leb-York 738,880 743,420
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