10 Things That Terrify the Right
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The biggest problem was that it was a dumb raid: you don't drop soldiers right into the middle of a club-wielding mob. Of course they're going to end up using lethal force.
Ironically, if the Israelis had somehow boarded the ship in a more forceful manner, there probably wouldn't have been any or as many casualties. It's the kind of classic f*ckup caused by poor intelligence and ill-advised tactics.
Ironically, if the Israelis had somehow boarded the ship in a more forceful manner, there probably wouldn't have been any or as many casualties. It's the kind of classic f*ckup caused by poor intelligence and the ill-advised tactics.
It's also the kind of failure that happens when you've turned your army into an occupying force focused principally on raiding towns for terrorists/insurgents.
Just look at the series of recent screwups, most notably the War in Lebanon. The army's been so focused on Nablus, Jenin, and Ramallah that they couldn't manage to protect their northern border or subdue Hezbollah.
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Paxton is right.
But, it is also what happens when
a military takes cues from politically correct cya'ers
and those who don't have any stake in Israel's survival.
Yes, it is astounding, perhaps only after the fact, that
they tried to board with a little raft jobbie, or tried to
board via helicopter downlines.
But how else are they going to board?
Is the U.N. going to stop Hamas from getting more missiles?
Nope.
Is the U.N. going to put up a blockade?
Nope.
When Hamas sends more missiles into Israel, and perhaps hits
several hosptials, including a children's hospital...
will the U.N. care?
Nope.
Will liberals care?
Nope.
You don't hear any outrage about attacks on Israel.
But let the militants on that ship make it all go wrong when
all they had to do was let Israel inspect, etc.....
and the libs go stark raving steamed about it.
You have to wonder why.
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Get over yourself.
you're wrong on the issue.
And I'm the one who needs to get over myself with a comment like that? Dream on, friend.
But, it is also what happens when
a military takes cues from politically correct cya'ers
and those who don't have any stake in Israel's survival.
So the reason that this was a tactical failure was because of anti-Zionists? If you truly believe this, you have no concept of how a military functions. Strategically, intercepting vessels bound for Palestine is a good move for Israel. Tactically, this was horrible, their intel apparently sucked for this op, they should've announced that they were going to board, and then done so in broad daylight. I guaran-xxxxing-tee if they had done it that way, no one would have died. Instead, they sneak up on them before the sun comes up, instantly putting a bunch of people that hate Israel on the defensive. They don't know why they're being boarded, just that it's being done forcibly.
Had there been missiles and weaponry on the ship, this whole thing would be a different story, and I'd have supported the Israelis' decision to board. But there were no weapons. They had marbles and f*cking pocket knives.
Is the U.N. going to stop Hamas from getting more missiles?
Nope.
I don't see how that's relevant to the situation considering how many missiles were found on board.
Is the U.N. going to put up a blockade?
Nope.
To starve out the Palestinians? To make them live like prisoners? I'd hope not.
When Hamas sends more missiles into Israel, and perhaps hits
several hosptials, including a children's hospital...
will the U.N. care?
Irrelevant.
You don't hear any outrage about attacks on Israel.
Yes, you do. Just not lately. It's about time that the other side of the story is getting some coverage.
But let the militants on that ship make it all go wrong when
all they had to do was let Israel inspect, etc.....
and the libs go stark raving steamed about it.
You have to wonder why.
And we have to wonder why you still blindly support anything with the star of david on it, while at the same time blindly renouncing anything with a moon.
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I think most Americans support Israel because of the genocide in WW2. I think that most people dislike Muslims because of 9/11 and other terrorist attacks. You can say that not all Muslims support them, but I think they really do. I remember the party in the streets in Palestine after 9/11.
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That's a very honest answer diehard. But you really think ALL muslims supported 9/11?
I think it's insane that the descendants of people that suffered the worst thing humanity has ever accomplished is responsible for such rampant human rights abuses today.
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@junkyard-dawg said:
Part two...How exactly is that trash? Ever read Obamas books? The ideology of the "church" that he's belonged to for two decades? Obama has disparaged his own grandmother with racial statements, wrote books on his blackness and how he refused to associate with whites, belongs to a hate group affiliated with the Nation of Islam, pardoned Black Panthers caught on film intimidating white voters while hurling racial slurs, turned around and gave them jobs, appointed open racist Van Jones into a position of power, appointed an inept, unqualified racist to the Supreme Court, stipulated billions of dollars in stimulus money was offlimits to whites, chided a white police officer for doing his job, hell he had racists making racist comments at his inauguration.
Need I go on? Look around at his close associates, and his wife. The ones that aren't extreme communists, terrorists or socialists are all racist. It isn't exactly a secret where he falls on the spectrum. Glen Beck isn't in the wrong for pointing it out.
The irony is the left denies it, yet if it were reversed? Let's take for example... Sven Braun. Sven here has written two books on his whiteness and how he avoided "coloreds" his entire life. Sven belongs to the Aryan Church of Christ. The A.C.C. teaches that white gentiles are the true Israelites and Gods chosen. Svens wife is a blonde haired blue eyed German woman who has attended David Duke rallies and written dissertations on blacks being societies problem. All of Svens friends are caucasians and belong to the A.C.C. or affiliates. Let's say Sven is elected to run a corporation. His first appointee is in HR, another white person who was taking heat at their prior job for discriminating against minority candidates. His second appointee is let's say a quality control czar, who happens to belong to the KKK. Let's say he also hired a couple skinheads charged recently for a "hate crime." Now as President of the corporation he is in charge of their money and donations. All of his donations are to organizations geared towards "white interests."
The question is, would you call him a racist? Of course you would. Would it be out of line to mention the fact by EVERY appearance he has a deep seated hatred of non-whites? Would it be "trash" to say so? Of course not. Society would be up in arms over it. Yet when it's the opposite are we not supposed to talk about it? Pretend it isn't there? The truth is it is there. It exists. The truth is you don't write racist books, associate with racists, belong to a hate group and you don't demean and discriminate against others if there ISN'T a racial hatred there.
Take it from me, 6 million of my people were slaughtered due to racism and the awareness that exists? At least in my circles is ingrained from birth. The Obama situation is no different then the low level klansmen who gets caught, except people will turn a blind eye to different KINDS of racism.
It creates jobs for the millions of Americans either unemployed or underemployed. It also as politically incorrect as this is reduces crime levels and boosts the economy. This is one of the issues I disagree with Libertarian minds on. Look, it's a feel good story regarding illegals but not much else. They're not paying taxes aside from sales tax on necessities. They're working for cash with no benefits and most of that cash is being sent back to their homelands. They're also a drain on the medical industry. If you're inclined look up the hospitals near the border that have had to close due to illegals flooding across, grabbing some healthcare then never bothering to pay for it.
Thank Liberals for that problem. I am being serious. Once apon a time we used to ship out chaingangs to farms to do work. The inmates loved it because it got them out of their cells and Farmers loved it because it was affordable labor. Then leftists got involved and declared it inhumane.
That said? It will get done. The only difference is greedy farmers will have to pay out livable wages from their federal subsidies to pay U.S. Citizens to do the work and will be unable to cash in anymore.
The problem with that is American citizens need work. It isn't right law abiding American citizens are forced to lose everything they have because millions of jobs are occupied by criminals. The construction deal, heh, Americans regularly did those jobs for centuries. The problem is an American isn't going to destroy their body with physical labor, do dangerous work and undergo years of trade schooling for $4 an hour cash. Criminals with no other options will.
The solution goes back to 1958, under President Eisenhower, with a few modern changes. 1: Round them up and deport them. 2: Build a serious fence that they can neither penetrate nor climb over. 3: Penalize any and every business that hires them. If you knowing employ illegal aliends under the table you should lose your licensing and pay massive fines. Those three things will put a stop to 90% of the problem.
This other "solution" of legalizing them, giving them Gov't handouts and leaving these businesses alone will do the opposite. You're going to see a MASSIVE flood across our border because you're rewarding it. Not to mention it is a slap in the face to any immigrant who has ever obeyed the rules and became a productive American citizen the RIGHT way.
Outstanding post.
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So the reason that this was a tactical failure was because of anti-Zionists? If you truly believe this, you have no concept of how a military functions. Strategically, intercepting vessels bound for Palestine is a good move for Israel. Tactically, this was horrible, their intel apparently sucked for this op, they should've announced that they were going to board, and then done so in broad daylight. I guaran-xxxxing-tee if they had done it that way, no one would have died. Instead, they sneak up on them before the sun comes up, instantly putting a bunch of people that hate Israel on the defensive. They don't know why they're being boarded, just that it's being done forcibly.
Had there been missiles and weaponry on the ship, this whole thing would be a different story, and I'd have supported the Israelis' decision to board. But there were no weapons. They had marbles and f*cking pocket knives. Vapor
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iron bars. The length to be used in palestinian/Hamas car bombings and riots. don't be a goof. You saw the iron bars used as weapons
on the ship. You think they had time to figure out to go find some boxes and maybe find some iron bars?
That was premeditated assualt, Vapor.
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I don't see how that's relevant to the situation considering how many missiles were found on board. Vapor
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You "don't see" ? Or don't WANT to see?
Read this, and you will see. btw, those ships don't travel straight through in daytime a lot. They won't be there
to be boarded in the daytime. It's easier to be spotted in the daytime.
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2009/11/04/90180.htmlShip's cargo included Katyusha rockets, anti-tank missilesIsrael seizes Hezbollah-bound Iranian weapons
Long range firepower
Rocket capable of reaching Tel Aviv
Naval commandos boarded the ship and the vessel was taken to an Israeli port (File) OCCUPIED JERUSALEM (Agencies)Israeli naval commandos have boarded a ship carrying Iranian-supplied rockets destined for Lebanon's Hezbollah group and taken the vessel to an Israeli port, the government said on Wednesday.Deputy Defense Minister Matan Vilnai told Army Radio that Katyusha rockets were found on the Antigua-flagged Francop, which the military said was intercepted overnight in the Mediterranean Sea, 100 miles (160 km) from Israel. It was brought to Ashdod, south of Tel Aviv."Stopping the Iranian weapons ship was an important achievement for the Israel Defence Forces and the state of Israel," President Shimon Peres said in a statement." Stopping the Iranian weapons ship was an important achievement for the Israel Defence Forces and the state of Israel "
President Shimon PeresThe 8,622 deadweight ton ship was due to have arrived on Nov. 1 at the Egyptian port of Damietta and was last seen on Oct. 31 in the Mediterranean sea between Lebanon and Cyprus, according to AISLive ship tracking data on Reuters.The vessel is owned by German shipping company Reederei Gerd Bartels, based near the port of Hamburg. Asked to comment, Mirko Bartels of the private shipping firm told Reuters: "We have nothing to say."An official with Cyprus-based United Feeder Services told Reuters it had acted as the time charterer and carrier for the Francop, tasked with loading and discharging the vessel.
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I said:
Is the U.N. going to put up a blockade?
Nope.
You said:
To starve out the Palestinians? To make them live like prisoners? I'd hope not.
don't be ridiculous. The necessary food is automatically forwarded on to the Palestinians, if Hamas will allow them to have it.
More likely, the food on those ships goes to Hamas' soldiers.
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When Hamas sends more missiles into Israel, and perhaps hits
several hosptials, including a children's hospital...
will the U.N. care?
Irrelevant.
It is NOT irrevelant at all. Israel MUST act to defend itself, because the UN doesn't get anything out of
supporting Israel, and simply doesn't care then.
THAT is why Israel must do the blockade. It is a SEARCH FOR WEAPONS, ETC. BLOCKADE,THEY LET FOOD GO ON THROUGH,STOP PARROTING THE ANTI-ISRAELI PROPAGANDA !
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You don't hear any outrage about attacks on Israel.
Yes, you do. Just not lately. It's about time that the other side of the story is getting some coverage.
Not from the UN you don't. I was talkin about the UN not helping Israel be secure.
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But let the militants on that ship make it all go wrong when
all they had to do was let Israel inspect, etc.....
and the libs go stark raving steamed about it.
You have to wonder why.
And we have to wonder why you still blindly support anything with the star of david on it, while at the same time blindly renouncing anything with a moon.
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That's a dumb cheap shot. Israel MUST stop weapons being shipped into Gaza. That is what they are doing, along with
supplies that could also be used by Hamas to solidify their positions, etc.
It has nothing to do with what is on their flags.
But, since you want to smart off, tell me if you think Israel sends suicide bombers into Gaza.
tell me one time when Israel told anybody that they will wipe another country off the map.
Tell me if Israel send Iranian missiles flying wantonly into Gaza to try to kill Palestinians.
Tell me when Israel ever initiated a war with any other country.
Tell me when Israel commandoes killed Olympians of another country, simply because they were Muslim.
tell me when Israel took over a cruise ship, and killed and dumped a handicapped Muslim in a wheelchair overboard
in front of his wife and tv cameras.
Tell me when Israelis hijacked a Muslim airplane, took Huslims hostage.
You CAN'T. But I can prove that all the above DID take place, via Muslim or Arabic militants.
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iron bars. The length to be used in palestinian/Hamas car bombings and riots. don't be a goof. You saw the iron bars used as weapons
on the ship. You think they had time to figure out to go find some boxes and maybe find some iron bars?
That was premeditated assualt, Vapor.
Okay, that's circumstantial evidence. You do realize that marbles and ball bearings and nails can be used in bombs as well? There is no set length for the crap they put in bombs, they use what they have.
I think you waive the right to not get your ass beat when you jump on someone's ship unannounced with weapons in hand. Was it assault? Maybe. The Israelis should've made their intentions known. If they were gonna do this shit correctly, they'd have flashbanged the shit out of the deck so that everyone would be momentarily incapacitated when they fastroped.
You "don't see" ? Or don't WANT to see?
I'm very aware that missiles get smuggled into Palestine. There were no missiles on this boat, that is the difference.
don't be ridiculous. The necessary food is automatically forwarded on to the Palestinians, if Hamas will allow them to have it.
More likely, the food on those ships goes to Hamas' soldiers.
You're the one being ridiculous. You're telling me with a straight face that Hamas is more responsible for preventing Palestinian civilians from getting food and water than the Israeli government is.
It is NOT irrevelant at all. Israel MUST act to defend itself, because the UN doesn't get anything out of
supporting Israel, and simply doesn't care then.
THAT is why Israel must do the blockade. It is a SEARCH FOR WEAPONS, ETC. BLOCKADE,THEY LET FOOD GO ON THROUGH,STOP PARROTING THE ANTI-ISRAELI PROPAGANDA
It is irrelevant to how this situation was handled. Should the Israelis check ships? For their sake, yes. Should they do it like this? Not at all. I understand that they want to minimize their own troops' endangerment which is why they did it at night, but the tactical aspect of it was completely fubar. You don't do this. If you're going to take on a ship of peace activists, do it during the day. If you're going to board them at night, do it right. Flashbangs, CS (probably not in the cabins, but on the deck, fine). Run through the ship, scare the shit out of everyone on it, and check for weapons. If there are no weapons, get the xxxx out. Instead, they let an entire deck stare at them while wondering why they're being boarded, then drop soldiers onto a bunch of scared, pissed off Palestinians. Shocking that they didn't react to it very well.
Israel MUST stop weapons being shipped into Gaza. That is what they are doing, along with
supplies that could also be used by Hamas to solidify their positions, etc.
Okay, good, you can see the big picture, that's what they're trying to do, but when that boat was boarded, that was NOT what they did. They boarded a vessel with nothing illegal on it in international waters.
But, since you want to smart off, tell me if you think Israel sends suicide bombers into Gaza.tell me one time when Israel told anybody that they will wipe another country off the map.
Tell me if Israel send Iranian missiles flying wantonly into Gaza to try to kill Palestinians.
Tell me when Israel ever initiated a war with any other country.
Tell me when Israel commandoes killed Olympians of another country, simply because they were Muslim.
tell me when Israel took over a cruise ship, and killed and dumped a handicapped Muslim in a wheelchair overboard
in front of his wife and tv cameras.
Tell me when Israelis hijacked a Muslim airplane, took Huslims hostage.
If we weren't paying for their AH-1's and M1A1's, perhaps they would be. While the Israelis don't specifically target civilians, they do use WP in populated areas. That's a big no-no. They do target the morale of the civilian population when they bulldoze homes. They abuse human rights. Israel doesn't deserve our blind support nor our tax dollars.
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@junkyard-dawg said:
It creates jobs for the millions of Americans either unemployed or underemployed. It also as politically incorrect as this is reduces crime levels and boosts the economy. This is one of the issues I disagree with Libertarian minds on. Look, it's a feel good story regarding illegals but not much else. They're not paying taxes aside from sales tax on necessities. They're working for cash with no benefits and most of that cash is being sent back to their homelands. They're also a drain on the medical industry. If you're inclined look up the hospitals near the border that have had to close due to illegals flooding across, grabbing some healthcare then never bothering to pay for it.Thank Liberals for that problem. I am being serious. Once apon a time we used to ship out chaingangs to farms to do work. The inmates loved it because it got them out of their cells and Farmers loved it because it was affordable labor. Then leftists got involved and declared it inhumane.
That said? It will get done. The only difference is greedy farmers will have to pay out livable wages from their federal subsidies to pay U.S. Citizens to do the work and will be unable to cash in anymore.
The problem with that is American citizens need work. It isn't right law abiding American citizens are forced to lose everything they have because millions of jobs are occupied by criminals. The construction deal, heh, Americans regularly did those jobs for centuries. The problem is an American isn't going to destroy their body with physical labor, do dangerous work and undergo years of trade schooling for $4 an hour cash. Criminals with no other options will.
The solution goes back to 1958, under President Eisenhower, with a few modern changes. 1: Round them up and deport them. 2: Build a serious fence that they can neither penetrate nor climb over. 3: Penalize any and every business that hires them. If you knowing employ illegal aliends under the table you should lose your licensing and pay massive fines. Those three things will put a stop to 90% of the problem.
This other "solution" of legalizing them, giving them Gov't handouts and leaving these businesses alone will do the opposite. You're going to see a MASSIVE flood across our border because you're rewarding it. Not to mention it is a slap in the face to any immigrant who has ever obeyed the rules and became a productive American citizen the RIGHT way.
Let me make sure I have this straight:
It is terrible when people immigrate here to work because they are criminals that take jobs from Americans. But you liked it when we were using convicted American inmates to do the same jobs. Is that about right?
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@junkyard-dawg said:
It creates jobs for the millions of Americans either unemployed or underemployed. It also as politically incorrect as this is reduces crime levels and boosts the economy. This is one of the issues I disagree with Libertarian minds on. Look, it's a feel good story regarding illegals but not much else. They're not paying taxes aside from sales tax on necessities. They're working for cash with no benefits and most of that cash is being sent back to their homelands. They're also a drain on the medical industry. If you're inclined look up the hospitals near the border that have had to close due to illegals flooding across, grabbing some healthcare then never bothering to pay for it.Thank Liberals for that problem. I am being serious. Once apon a time we used to ship out chaingangs to farms to do work. The inmates loved it because it got them out of their cells and Farmers loved it because it was affordable labor. Then leftists got involved and declared it inhumane.
That said? It will get done. The only difference is greedy farmers will have to pay out livable wages from their federal subsidies to pay U.S. Citizens to do the work and will be unable to cash in anymore.
The problem with that is American citizens need work. It isn't right law abiding American citizens are forced to lose everything they have because millions of jobs are occupied by criminals. The construction deal, heh, Americans regularly did those jobs for centuries. The problem is an American isn't going to destroy their body with physical labor, do dangerous work and undergo years of trade schooling for $4 an hour cash. Criminals with no other options will.
The solution goes back to 1958, under President Eisenhower, with a few modern changes. 1: Round them up and deport them. 2: Build a serious fence that they can neither penetrate nor climb over. 3: Penalize any and every business that hires them. If you knowing employ illegal aliends under the table you should lose your licensing and pay massive fines. Those three things will put a stop to 90% of the problem.
This other "solution" of legalizing them, giving them Gov't handouts and leaving these businesses alone will do the opposite. You're going to see a MASSIVE flood across our border because you're rewarding it. Not to mention it is a slap in the face to any immigrant who has ever obeyed the rules and became a productive American citizen the RIGHT way.
Let me make sure I have this straight:
It is terrible when people immigrate here to work because they are criminals that take jobs from Americans. But you liked it when we were using convicted American inmates to do the same jobs. Is that about right?
It is terrible when people immigrate here to work because they are criminals that take jobs from Americans. But you liked it when we were using convicted American inmates to do the same jobs. Is that about right?
They are not the same jobs, Tupe. Come on. Your statement or scenario isn't even close to the same thing.
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@junkyard-dawg said:
I disagree, we have open communist meetings in contemporary America and communists such as Van Jones being appointed into positions of influence and authority. A lack of McCarthy style diligence is one of the reasons we're in the mess that we are in. We became complacent of the communist thread and look at us now, it's being taught in schools as a good thing.I'd agree that Communism is bad, but socialism isn't inherently evil. I think that many necessities should be socialized, and lots of young people believe this, too. If people want to compete with the government, let em. Everything else is up to capitalism. And who gives a shit if there are open communist meetings? You're free to believe in whatever economic system you want to.
I don't disagree. Unfortunately there IS an in between that is likely to be ignored. On the one hand you have Churches that are against it period, on the flipside groups who will only accept the Gov't forcing Churches to marry gays. This is one of those instances where states rights should come into play and is a good testament to the effectiveness of states rights v.s. Federal regulation.
I've never heard of people that think churches should be forced to marry gays. Only the arguments that they should have the same legal benefits. I think that forcing churches to marry gays is just as ridiculous as not wanting them to have the legal benefits.
I am unsure of what fist jab you mean. I've honestly never heard of that, what happened? Onto the middle name, it's a matter of perspective. For 8 years the left has insisted on referring to President Bush as "Dubya." The Hussein stuff was much in the same vein. Am I saying that makes it right? Not at all, honestly I don't care about it and it makes little difference in the grand scheme of things.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E.D._Hill
Some Fox News anchorwoman called a fist bump between Obama and Michelle a 'terrorist fist jab.' Fox News shortly thereafter canceled her show after it didn't go along so well. And playing off of someone's stupidity (dubya) is not the same thing as the race card.
@junkyard-dawg said:
Part two...How exactly is that trash? Ever read Obamas books? The ideology of the "church" that he's belonged to for two decades? Obama has disparaged his own grandmother with racial statements, wrote books on his blackness and how he refused to associate with whites, belongs to a hate group affiliated with the Nation of Islam, pardoned Black Panthers caught on film intimidating white voters while hurling racial slurs, turned around and gave them jobs, appointed open racist Van Jones into a position of power, appointed an inept, unqualified racist to the Supreme Court, stipulated billions of dollars in stimulus money was offlimits to whites, chided a white police officer for doing his job, hell he had racists making racist comments at his inauguration.
Need I go on? Look around at his close associates, and his wife. The ones that aren't extreme communists, terrorists or socialists are all racist. It isn't exactly a secret where he falls on the spectrum. Glen Beck isn't in the wrong for pointing it out.
...
I've actually not read any of his books. Would you recommend them? Do you think I'd draw the same conclusions that you did? His statement on the police officer was idiotic.
]It creates jobs for the millions of Americans either unemployed or underemployed. It also as politically incorrect as this is reduces crime levels and boosts the economy. This is one of the issues I disagree with Libertarian minds on. Look, it's a feel good story regarding illegals but not much else. They're not paying taxes aside from sales tax on necessities. They're working for cash with no benefits and most of that cash is being sent back to their homelands. They're also a drain on the medical industry. If you're inclined look up the hospitals near the border that have had to close due to illegals flooding across, grabbing some healthcare then never bothering to pay for it.
Hey, that's capitalism at its best. I think the problem's deeper than just stop the Mexicans from jumping the fence.
Thank Liberals for that problem. I am being serious. Once apon a time we used to ship out chaingangs to farms to do work. The inmates loved it because it got them out of their cells and Farmers loved it because it was affordable labor. Then leftists got involved and declared it inhumane.
That's a really good idea. Our prisons are overcrowded, too. We should bring that shit back. Would replacing Mexicans with inmates, in your opinion, yield the same output?
That said? It will get done. The only difference is greedy farmers will have to pay out livable wages from their federal subsidies to pay U.S. Citizens to do the work and will be unable to cash in anymore.
How? So long as Mexicans are coming in, greedy people (not only farmers, but construction/walmart/etc.) will be paying them to do work for cheap. So long as greedy bastards are offering illegal money, but more than can be made in Mexico, they'll keep coming.
The problem with that is American citizens need work. It isn't right law abiding American citizens are forced to lose everything they have because millions of jobs are occupied by criminals. The construction deal, heh, Americans regularly did those jobs for centuries. The problem is an American isn't going to destroy their body with physical labor, do dangerous work and undergo years of trade schooling for $4 an hour cash. Criminals with no other options will.
Right, but we can't put the blame on only them. Like you said, they have no other options and next to nothing to lose by coming here for work. Both sides of the issue need to be addressed. I think the focus should be more on the people that give them incentive to come here.
The solution goes back to 1958, under President Eisenhower, with a few modern changes. 1: Round them up and deport them. 2: Build a serious fence that they can neither penetrate nor climb over. 3: Penalize any and every business that hires them. If you knowing employ illegal aliends under the table you should lose your licensing and pay massive fines. Those three things will put a stop to 90% of the problem.
I think 1 and 2 are going to be extremely difficult to do. For every one that you deport, 5 more cross. The fence, I just can't see it realistically working. I mean, honestly, short of building a couple of fences and landmining the shit out of the land in between them, can you honestly see it working? To climb a 10 foot fence, you need an 11 foot ladder, same goes for however deep they dig it. And while I see the fence creating jobs for it to be built, do you know how much it would cost to have a fence that actually works? You'd have to have elevated guard posts every couple hundred yards, sonar systems to detect diggers, all sorts of nonlethal technologies to stop would-be jumpers. It just seems like the cost of it would be astronomical. I think that fining the people that pay illegals is the easiest way to go about it. I mean, it's a start anyways. I wouldn't mind a fence nor kicking them out, but that'd be very tough to do.
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@junkyard-dawg said:
If by "about right" you mean positively incorrect, then yes, it is. By all means show me WHERE I stated that. ALL that I stated is a historical fact in response to the "we NEED illegals from 3rd world countries here, someones gotta farm our food." Maybe going by that logic we should just hop back into the slave trade, eh? Afterall, someone has to do it, might as well have it done for free, right? Didn't think so.I'm not supposed to read this as being approving of the use of "chain-gangs"?
Thank Liberals for that problem. I am being serious. Once apon a time we used to ship out chaingangs to farms to do work. The inmates loved it because it got them out of their cells and Farmers loved it because it was affordable labor. Then leftists got involved and declared it inhumane.
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@junkyard-dawg said:
It creates jobs for the millions of Americans either unemployed or underemployed. It also as politically incorrect as this is reduces crime levels and boosts the economy. This is one of the issues I disagree with Libertarian minds on. Look, it's a feel good story regarding illegals but not much else. They're not paying taxes aside from sales tax on necessities. They're working for cash with no benefits and most of that cash is being sent back to their homelands. They're also a drain on the medical industry. If you're inclined look up the hospitals near the border that have had to close due to illegals flooding across, grabbing some healthcare then never bothering to pay for it.Thank Liberals for that problem. I am being serious. Once apon a time we used to ship out chaingangs to farms to do work. The inmates loved it because it got them out of their cells and Farmers loved it because it was affordable labor. Then leftists got involved and declared it inhumane.
That said? It will get done. The only difference is greedy farmers will have to pay out livable wages from their federal subsidies to pay U.S. Citizens to do the work and will be unable to cash in anymore.
The problem with that is American citizens need work. It isn't right law abiding American citizens are forced to lose everything they have because millions of jobs are occupied by criminals. The construction deal, heh, Americans regularly did those jobs for centuries. The problem is an American isn't going to destroy their body with physical labor, do dangerous work and undergo years of trade schooling for $4 an hour cash. Criminals with no other options will.
The solution goes back to 1958, under President Eisenhower, with a few modern changes. 1: Round them up and deport them. 2: Build a serious fence that they can neither penetrate nor climb over. 3: Penalize any and every business that hires them. If you knowing employ illegal aliends under the table you should lose your licensing and pay massive fines. Those three things will put a stop to 90% of the problem.
This other "solution" of legalizing them, giving them Gov't handouts and leaving these businesses alone will do the opposite. You're going to see a MASSIVE flood across our border because you're rewarding it. Not to mention it is a slap in the face to any immigrant who has ever obeyed the rules and became a productive American citizen the RIGHT way.
Let me make sure I have this straight:
It is terrible when people immigrate here to work because they are criminals that take jobs from Americans. But you liked it when we were using convicted American inmates to do the same jobs. Is that about right?
Let me make sure I have this straight:
It is terrible when people immigrate here to work because they are criminals that take jobs from Americans. But you liked it when we were using convicted American inmates to do the same jobs. Is that about right?
In your view Toop, should convicts who have assumedly done harm to society be required to do anything as repayment?
Is working for the state a lot different than paying a large fine that goes to the public coffers?
WSS
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Let me make sure I have this straight:
It is terrible when people immigrate here to work because they are criminals that take jobs from Americans. But you liked it when we were using convicted American inmates to do the same jobs. Is that about right?
In your view Toop, should convicts who have assumedly done harm to society be required to do anything as repayment?
Is working for the state a lot different than paying a large fine that goes to the public coffers?
WSS
In your view Toop, should convicts who have assumedly done harm to society be required to do anything as repayment?
Is working for the state a lot different than paying a large fine that goes to the public coffers?
WSS
Ive got no problem with inmates working. I'm just confused by someone complaining about "criminals" taking American jobs and then complaining that "Leftists" took away the chain gangs.
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In your view Toop, should convicts who have assumedly done harm to society be required to do anything as repayment?
Is working for the state a lot different than paying a large fine that goes to the public coffers?
WSS
Ive got no problem with inmates working. I'm just confused by someone complaining about "criminals" taking American jobs and then complaining that "Leftists" took away the chain gangs.
Ive got no problem with inmates working. I'm just confused by someone complaining about "criminals" taking American jobs and then complaining that "Leftists" took away the chain gangs.
OK. Understood.
WSS
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