Lombardi: Haden struggled in camp

Alo

I knew this guy was going to be a bust.

Pumpkin Eater

@shepwrite said:
Mike Lombardi tossed off a note that he's been told that Joe Haden struggled in camp and didn't show the speed necessary for the position in the NFL. Yikes. Hope it's total bullshit...
But then again, I hated the pick. A corner at #7 better be cleaner than clean with no holes in his game whatsoever. Mangini seemed to be less than psyched about him and warbled like a nervous politician under investigation. "He did some good things, some bad things... about where we'd expect him to be at this point."

Again... yikes.

It almost sounds like you're rooting for the kid to fail.

NW Ohio Brownie

When I saw Lombardi's take on Haden posted yesterday on Waiting For Next Year, I immediately thought to myself, "I wonder how soon Shep will have this posted on the board."

Look, we all know you don't like the pick, Shep. Duly noted and certainly a fair argument at this point.

However, a few things. Lombardi doesn't know squat about the Cleveland Browns. The guy is a well-documented anti-Mangini stooge. If Mike Florio is president of the anti-Mangini club, Lombardi is second banana. Lombardi certainly isn't getting any of this kind of "news" out of someone in Berea. Also, Haden can just flat out play football whether he's doing it with 4.3 or 4.4 speed. He will be fine and will impress with his physical style of play and coverage skills. He's a first-round talent and the Browns needed help in the secondary and couldn't trade back. Bingo, there's your pick. Our most glaring weakness on defense last year (8th in pressuring the passer/29th against the pass) has become at the very least reliable.

blowe

@alo said:
I knew this guy was going to be a bust.

you are calling him a bust before his rookie season starts? nice

CLEVELandMILIDH

@blowe said:
you are calling him a bust before his rookie season starts? nice

(Alo @ Jul 19 2010, 08:43 PM)
I knew this guy was going to be a bust.

does that help

Alo

Thanks for clarifying things, Mr. Mills.

Also, I'd like to add that I agree with Mike Lombardi that Haden won't be a top ten pick.

HowieDawg

I love this board but not at this time of year <sigh>

We don't know anything about the real Joe yet. It's almost like some of you want him to be a bust to prove yourselves correct. I say give the kid his chance rather than use third hand observations and rumour to call a rookie who hasn't stepped on the field yet a bust. I'll take Ballpeen's view for now, at least he's seen the kid in action to make his comments.

Gafreleets

he got drafted by the browns.

of course he's a bust.

CLEVELandMILIDH

TUESDAY, JULY 20, 2010

http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/2010/07/mik...n-whos-too.html

Mike Lombardi vs. Joe Haden: Who's Too Slow for What?

We've said before that we should probably never expect Mike Lombardi to write reasonably about any Browns player, manager, or presumptive draftee as long as Eric Mangini is coaching the team, and hope it will be soon enough that Lombardi can write something about the Browns and everybody can ignore it. But until then, here's Lombardi's latest, this time on Joe Haden:

"According to coaches around the league, Browns first-round pick Joe Haden has not been very impressive in camps and might not have enough speed to play corner. Maybe all that talk about some in the organization wanted to take Kyle Wilson over Haden was true."

We should probably start with the obvious question: What are "coaches around the league" doing at Browns camp? Did Mangini invite them? Did he send out tapes? If so, he's come along way from Spygate.

Wait! Spies! There could be spies in Browns camp who are glad to tell coaches around the league about their own team's specific weaknesses. It might even be a Browns coach who wants the team to do poorly ... so ... he can ... lose his job?

Wait. Really, who could it be? They say Haden is competing with Eric Wright for a starting job. Maybe it's Eric Wright who's talking to coaches around the league?

Wait. It's mini-camp. They're not even rushing the passer yet. They're not even in full pads. How much can we really know about a rookie cornerback after mini-camp?

OK, too many questions here, so let's back up and review what we do know.

We know that Mike Lombardi was calling for Eric Mangini to be fired as Browns head coach only half-way through last season, and in doing so displayed a massive disrespect for facts, logic, and journalistic integrity.

We know that before Lombardi was fired from his position as a Raiders personnel guy and before Mangini took the head coaching job with the Jets, Lombardi once took a trip to interview Mangini for Oakland's defensive coordinator position. Its safe to assume that Mangini rejected an offer by the Raiders. It's also safe to speculate that Lombardi might have thought he could have gotten back into the league if "the right guy" was hired in Cleveland.

We know (well, I know, and you will know after you read this) that Lombardi emailed me last season and said among other things that, "it is my right to not like [Mangini], and not have to justify my sources to you," and that "Mangini will blow the [2010 draft], there is no doubt in my mind."*

We know that some three weeks before the 2010 draft, before the pre-draft smoke got thick and Haden was still the presumptive choice for the Browns, Lombardi "was hearing" that Joe Haden "wasn't a top ten pick."

We know after completion of the 2010 draft's first round, it was immediately floated that there was a split in Browns camp between Haden and eventual Jets' first-round pick Kyle Wilson. Again, who would leak this kind of information if it was true is anyone's guess.

So let's connect the dots. A former NFL personnel exec who can no longer find a job in the league now writes a widely-read column based largely on anonymous sourcing. This columnist has demonstrated and confessed an unmistakable intent to exercise "his right not to like Eric Mangini," and has invested his credibility in the conclusion that Mangini isn't fit to be an NFL head coach. This columnist no doubt knows that if fans are irrationally impatient about anything, it's draft picks, and when Joe Haden looks to be Eric Mangini's presumptive choice as a first round pick, this columnist starts "hearing" that Haden won't be any good. The Browns end up choosing Haden, sparking unfounded rumors that Kyle Wilson was the guy they really wanted. It soon becomes clear that with Sheldon Brown and Eric Wright around, the Browns have the flexibility to bring Haden along relatively slowly, thus giving cover to anyone who wants to inflame fan impatience and bring a head coach down by taking unfounded shots at the rookie cornerback. ("Hey, the first-rounder isn't starting! What's wrong with him? What's wrong with this organization?!")

Now Mike Lombardi is, amazingly, "hearing from coaches around the league" that Haden was "not very impressive in camps and might not have the speed to play corner," and wondering if "maybe all that talk about some in the organization wanted to take Kyle Wilson over Haden was true."

If anybody's "too slow" here, it certainly doesn't seem to be Haden. Do you think this guy would have a job if his last name wasn't Lombardi? No relation, by the way. Thankfully.

Meanwhile, everyone else seems to think that Haden is doing just fine.

That's all for now. Back with more later. Hope everyone's Tuesday gets off to a decent start in the meantime.

----------

*Here's another line from a Lombardi email to me (all in a back-and-forth regarding his aforementioned Mangini hit-job at National Football Post):

"You have no clue, I have spent over 23 years in the NFL. Where did you learn the game? Can you get anyone from the NFL to return your calls?"

I meant to email Lombardi to tell him that I didn't need to spend 23 years in the NFL or be able to get anyone from the NFL to return my calls to go 10-1 against the spread with my playoff picks (while he was flailing away with his picks on Simmons' podcast) but I never got around to it, which is a huge bummer.

ClevelandFanForLife

i'm surprised florio isn't reporting that haden is the biggest bust ever and will never make a single tackle in the pros.

ClevelandFanForLife

also, jerry rice was too slow remember? everyone said that the fast corners would be able to shut him down. i guess they were wrong too.

samoth

Emmit Smith was slow too, if I recall correctly. He turned out ok.

calfoxwc

lombardi is just like savage...

they just want paychecks in the nfl, and they will snivel and bs forever to get them.

meanwhile, this browns fo and coachin staff FREAKIN REALLY KNOW FOOTBALL.

Thaak

@clevelandfanforlife said:
i'm surprised florio isn't reporting that haden is the biggest bust ever and will never make a single tackle in the pros.

I don’t believe that Florio is an unabashed Browns or Mangini basher. He forms strong opinions, makes no bones that he is often wrong (doesn’t know anything about talent or how to make a team win), and often makes fun of people who do things to make fun of. That’s his style.

Florio does a lot of regurgitation of other people’s reports, and then blogs about what others are reporting.

So Florio regurgitating Lombardi does not mean its Florio’s opinion.

He’s also regurgitated and commented on positive reports.

LouieLane

Lombardi must be out his mind. Let's at least get in to training camp, full pads, and some hitting before we give up on Joe Haden. I'll admit that I wanted Earl Thomas with the pick...but on the night of the draft, it took me the drive from Shaker to Walton Hills to accept and get excited about Joe Haden at #7. This kid was considered one of the best, if not the best athlete on an incredibly talented Gator squad. And all the scouts and "experts" readily admit that Joe Haden has only scratched the surface of his potential at the CB position.

At the presser for round 1, Heckert was asked if it was difficult to choose between Kyle Wilson & Joe Haden, to which he immediately replied "NO"!! Will there be some growing pains, will he have to adjust to the speed of the pro game...absolutely. But to already surmise that he doesn't have the speed to play the position is asinine and for Lombardi to make such claims severely impeaches his credibility.

samoth

Lombardi is the only person in the media who is more anti-Mangini than Grossi. At least Tony G has a reason to be upset; after all, Mangini fired all the media leaks from the front office so now Tony has to actually do some work.

Canton Mike

Hey folks, LAY OFF Lombardi!!!...He's one HELL of a gossip columnist. You just don't know talent.

I wanted Haden from the start & am still excited about the young man, but what do any of us really know? Unlike some of these fools who write "facts" after a minicamp, I'll wait to see what happens with my OWN eyes.

Mike

Sez.EJ

Anyone playing on the Florida defense (especially the Secondary) has speed to burn or they would never touch the field. Lombardi is a joke. I guess that 4.4 he ran does not make him fast enough.

shepwrite

@alo said:
Thanks for clarifying things, Mr. Mills.
Also, I'd like to add that I agree with Mike Lombardi that Haden won't be a top ten pick.

I think he meant "shouldn't be." Wink, wink, JK, har-har.

pizzadeliveryguy

@sez.ej said:
Anyone playing on the Florida defense (especially the Secondary) has speed to burn or they would never touch the field. Lombardi is a joke. I guess that 4.4 he ran does not make him fast enough.

While I don't put a lot of stock in 40 times, I can't see Mangini and Holmgren not seeing a lack of speed while watching a ton of tape on Haden. I hope Lombardi is just talking out of his ass because the group of Brown, Wright, and Haden at cb actually has me excited for the secondary prospects.