Lombardi: Haden struggled in camp
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I believe anyone taken in the first ten spots in the draft need to make a difference in the first year to be worth it . Can't judge him either way till we see him play .
Talking heads be damned .
I believe anyone taken in the first ten spots in the draft need to make a difference in the first year to be worth it . Can't judge him either way till we see him play .
Talking heads be damned .
I pretty much agree with that all the way around. The proof will be in the season. If you're looking for a player to develop at corner... you don't need to use a #7 pick on that.
Then again, if he ends up a perennial Pro Bowler, it's all good anyway.
But if we held up on discussing stuff until it was appropriate, we'd never talk about anything!
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"disagreement is good"
Disagreement is good... IF AND ONLY IF your thought process is logical. Simply asserting that you have "a point" does not make it so.
1) Lombardi has ZERO sources. He's simply posting the same gratuitous nonsense that was available before the draft.
Yes, Haden had bad advisors prior to running at the combine.. take that as a clear indication that your posture affects your speed. Shocking! This isn't Faux News -- Haden's speed is just fine, as shown throughout the entire last college season AND his pro day.
2) Lombardi openly has a personal feud with Mangini.. but you take his article as truth OVER the statements from the Browns? On what planet is that a good idea?
Shep, you're quite simply wrong. There is no proof to any of Lombardi's claims. Drop it.
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
I believe anyone taken in the first ten spots in the draft need to make a difference in the first year to be worth it . Can't judge him either way till we see him play .
Talking heads be damned .
I pretty much agree with that all the way around. The proof will be in the season. If you're looking for a player to develop at corner... you don't need to use a #7 pick on that.
Then again, if he ends up a perennial Pro Bowler, it's all good anyway.
But if we held up on discussing stuff until it was appropriate, we'd never talk about anything!
I pretty much agree with that all the way around. The proof will be in the season. If you're looking for a player to develop at corner... you don't need to use a #7 pick on that.
Then again, if he ends up a perennial Pro Bowler, it's all good anyway.
But if we held up on discussing stuff until it was appropriate, we'd never talk about anything!
That’s your canned excuse Shep.
Discussion, at any time, is of course good. I’m no quibbling with that.
Its your modus operandi I have an issue with.
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You know what: Wouldn't it be better to actually see him play in some real games for a couple of years before making knee jerk evaluations like "bad pick". You have no clue any more than I do if he is going to work out. So, Lighten up Francis.
Semantic breakdown.
I didn't say bad player. I said bad pick. That was my opinion heading into the draft, immediately after the draft, and now.
And all that said, he's a Brown now and I want him to do good. I actually would love to be wrong. But right now, today, I don't feel wrong, Francis.
Semantic breakdown.
I didn't say bad player. I said bad pick. That was my opinion heading into the draft, immediately after the draft, and now.
And all that said, he's a Brown now and I want him to do good. I actually would love to be wrong. But right now, today, I don't feel wrong, Francis.
OK then, how about we agree just to wait and see how he does before jumping to conclusions.
Also: you will get a prize if you can identify the "Francis" reference.
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"disagreement is good"
Disagreement is good... IF AND ONLY IF your thought process is logical. Simply asserting that you have "a point" does not make it so.
1) Lombardi has ZERO sources. He's simply posting the same gratuitous nonsense that was available before the draft.
Yes, Haden had bad advisors prior to running at the combine.. take that as a clear indication that your posture affects your speed. Shocking! This isn't Faux News -- Haden's speed is just fine, as shown throughout the entire last college season AND his pro day.
2) Lombardi openly has a personal feud with Mangini.. but you take his article as truth OVER the statements from the Browns? On what planet is that a good idea?
Shep, you're quite simply wrong. There is no proof to any of Lombardi's claims. Drop it.
"disagreement is good"
Disagreement is good... IF AND ONLY IF your thought process is logical. Simply asserting that you have "a point" does not make it so.
1) Lombardi has ZERO sources. He's simply posting the same gratuitous nonsense that was available before the draft.
Yes, Haden had bad advisors prior to running at the combine.. take that as a clear indication that your posture affects your speed. Shocking! This isn't Faux News -- Haden's speed is just fine, as shown throughout the entire last college season AND his pro day.
2) Lombardi openly has a personal feud with Mangini.. but you take his article as truth OVER the statements from the Browns? On what planet is that a good idea?
Shep, you're quite simply wrong. There is no proof to any of Lombardi's claims. Drop it.
Drop it? Uhhh... bite me?
I think it was a bad pick. Signs are that he didn't shine in camp (Kareem Jackson DID). It's absolutely a valid point. You just don't like it.
Now drop it.
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I pretty much agree with that all the way around. The proof will be in the season. If you're looking for a player to develop at corner... you don't need to use a #7 pick on that.
Then again, if he ends up a perennial Pro Bowler, it's all good anyway.
But if we held up on discussing stuff until it was appropriate, we'd never talk about anything!
That’s your canned excuse Shep.
Discussion, at any time, is of course good. I’m no quibbling with that.
Its your modus operandi I have an issue with.
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Shep, you are so biased and one-sided in your opinions it is ridiculous.
I don't care if its the #1 overall draft pick. If you are picking BPA, and you have two good players at that position already, then you expect the rookie to be the #3 or #4 going into camp. You EXPECT IT. If you don't, you're an idiot.
Stop with your biased-ness.
I don't get it. If I have a strong opinion that disagrees with your strong opinion, only one of us is "biased?"
That doesn't make any sense. I think you're saying that HAVING a strong opinion is biased?
If Joe Haden does something positive, like has a great preseason game or gets a great camp review, I won't be trying to spin it. I WANT him to be good. I'm no Lumbergh and never have been. I'd much rather win than be right.
But I don't by rote endorse every single thing the Browns. That sounds dull. And disagreement is good.
I don't get it. If I have a strong opinion that disagrees with your strong opinion, only one of us is "biased?"
That doesn't make any sense. I think you're saying that HAVING a strong opinion is biased?
If Joe Haden does something positive, like has a great preseason game or gets a great camp review, I won't be trying to spin it. I WANT him to be good. I'm no Lumbergh and never have been. I'd much rather win than be right.
But I don't by rote endorse every single thing the Browns. That sounds dull. And disagreement is good.
His opinion was wait and see. Yours is to immediately call it a bad pick because you don't like it.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but if you can't see the flaw of knee jerk decisions then I feel for you. A lot of people hated the Alex Mack pick, but I bet they don't hate it so much now that he's already one of the better centers in the league. Give Haden a chance for God's sake -- he hasn't even played in any contact drills!!!
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Semantic breakdown.
I didn't say bad player. I said bad pick. That was my opinion heading into the draft, immediately after the draft, and now.
And all that said, he's a Brown now and I want him to do good. I actually would love to be wrong. But right now, today, I don't feel wrong, Francis.
OK then, how about we agree just to wait and see how he does before jumping to conclusions.
Also: you will get a prize if you can identify the "Francis" reference.
OK then, how about we agree just to wait and see how he does before jumping to conclusions.
Also: you will get a prize if you can identify the "Francis" reference
.Strangely, I was afraid you were gonna ask that! It sounds really familiar. But I don't know.
I'm not drawing any conclusions. There's no way to shoot straight to conclusions with Haden for years. It's just debate and discussion. I figured him as a good corner and a first rounder. My opinion is and was that he wouldn't mean more to a team in today's NFL with today's rules than another one of the top corners, like Jackson or Wilson.
The fact that he isn't shining (I didn't say he's sucking, just that he isn't shining) makes me further believe that he isn't really a once-every-five-years corner who should go top 10.
But agreed: no conclusions. Doesn't make sense.
(Given Wright and Brown were in place, I would've gone Dez or the Earl Thomas, preferably in a slight trade down that gives us ammunition to trade up from 38 to get Wilson or McCourty.)
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I don't get it. If I have a strong opinion that disagrees with your strong opinion, only one of us is "biased?"
That doesn't make any sense. I think you're saying that HAVING a strong opinion is biased?
If Joe Haden does something positive, like has a great preseason game or gets a great camp review, I won't be trying to spin it. I WANT him to be good. I'm no Lumbergh and never have been. I'd much rather win than be right.
But I don't by rote endorse every single thing the Browns. That sounds dull. And disagreement is good.
His opinion was wait and see. Yours is to immediately call it a bad pick because you don't like it.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but if you can't see the flaw of knee jerk decisions then I feel for you. A lot of people hated the Alex Mack pick, but I bet they don't hate it so much now that he's already one of the better centers in the league. Give Haden a chance for God's sake -- he hasn't even played in any contact drills!!!
His opinion was wait and see. Yours is to immediately call it a bad pick because you don't like it.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but if you can't see the flaw of knee jerk decisions then I feel for you. A lot of people hated the Alex Mack pick, but I bet they don't hate it so much now that he's already one of the better centers in the league. Give Haden a chance for God's sake -- he hasn't even played in any contact drills!!!
I appreciate your concern.
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I don't get it. If I have a strong opinion that disagrees with your strong opinion, only one of us is "biased?"
That doesn't make any sense. I think you're saying that HAVING a strong opinion is biased?
If Joe Haden does something positive, like has a great preseason game or gets a great camp review, I won't be trying to spin it. I WANT him to be good. I'm no Lumbergh and never have been. I'd much rather win than be right.
But I don't by rote endorse every single thing the Browns. That sounds dull. And disagreement is good.
His opinion was wait and see. Yours is to immediately call it a bad pick because you don't like it.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but if you can't see the flaw of knee jerk decisions then I feel for you. A lot of people hated the Alex Mack pick, but I bet they don't hate it so much now that he's already one of the better centers in the league. Give Haden a chance for God's sake -- he hasn't even played in any contact drills!!!
His opinion was wait and see. Yours is to immediately call it a bad pick because you don't like it.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but if you can't see the flaw of knee jerk decisions then I feel for you. A lot of people hated the Alex Mack pick, but I bet they don't hate it so much now that he's already one of the better centers in the league. Give Haden a chance for God's sake -- he hasn't even played in any contact drills!!!
No. You're misstating it.
I don't like it because I think it's a bad pick. It's the opposite of what you said.
He's a good player and I think he'll be a good NFL corner. But I think it was a bad pick, a bad allocation of resources, a bad strategy. In order for it to be right (in my opinion), Haden has to be WAY better than Jackson, McCourty, and Wilson... and a rival to Revis for the top of the CB pile. Not as a rookie, but by year two.
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His opinion was wait and see. Yours is to immediately call it a bad pick because you don't like it.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but if you can't see the flaw of knee jerk decisions then I feel for you. A lot of people hated the Alex Mack pick, but I bet they don't hate it so much now that he's already one of the better centers in the league. Give Haden a chance for God's sake -- he hasn't even played in any contact drills!!!
No. You're misstating it.
I don't like it because I think it's a bad pick. It's the opposite of what you said.
He's a good player and I think he'll be a good NFL corner. But I think it was a bad pick, a bad allocation of resources, a bad strategy. In order for it to be right (in my opinion), Haden has to be WAY better than Jackson, McCourty, and Wilson... and a rival to Revis for the top of the CB pile. Not as a rookie, but by year two.
No. You're misstating it.
I don't like it because I think it's a bad pick. It's the opposite of what you said.
He's a good player and I think he'll be a good NFL corner. But I think it was a bad pick, a bad allocation of resources, a bad strategy. In order for it to be right (in my opinion), Haden has to be WAY better than Jackson, McCourty, and Wilson... and a rival to Revis for the top of the CB pile. Not as a rookie, but by year two.
Ok, and he might. We don't know that. Obviously Heckert, Holmgren and Mangini (smart football people with decades of experience evaluating talent between them) thought more highly of Haden than any of the other CBs. Give the guy a shot. Our cornerbacks have sucked for 10 years. I would have been ok with them drafting DBs with every single pick this year.
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OK then, how about we agree just to wait and see how he does before jumping to conclusions.
Also: you will get a prize if you can identify the "Francis" reference
.Strangely, I was afraid you were gonna ask that! It sounds really familiar. But I don't know.
I'm not drawing any conclusions. There's no way to shoot straight to conclusions with Haden for years. It's just debate and discussion. I figured him as a good corner and a first rounder. My opinion is and was that he wouldn't mean more to a team in today's NFL with today's rules than another one of the top corners, like Jackson or Wilson.
The fact that he isn't shining (I didn't say he's sucking, just that he isn't shining) makes me further believe that he isn't really a once-every-five-years corner who should go top 10.
But agreed: no conclusions. Doesn't make sense.
(Given Wright and Brown were in place, I would've gone Dez or the Earl Thomas, preferably in a slight trade down that gives us ammunition to trade up from 38 to get Wilson or McCourty.)
Strangely, I was afraid you were gonna ask that! It sounds really familiar. But I don't know.
I'm not drawing any conclusions. There's no way to shoot straight to conclusions with Haden for years. It's just debate and discussion. I figured him as a good corner and a first rounder. My opinion is and was that he wouldn't mean more to a team in today's NFL with today's rules than another one of the top corners, like Jackson or Wilson.
The fact that he isn't shining (I didn't say he's sucking, just that he isn't shining) makes me further believe that he isn't really a once-every-five-years corner who should go top 10.
But agreed: no conclusions. Doesn't make sense.
(Given Wright and Brown were in place, I would've gone Dez or the Earl Thomas, preferably in a slight trade down that gives us ammunition to trade up from 38 to get Wilson or McCourty.)
So? How do we know that "Dez or Earl Thomas" are not also "failing to shine". Maybe Dez Bryant will be the next Charles Rogers and Earl Thomas the next...who knows...Brandon McDonald.
As for debate and discussion we could sit around and contemplate our navels. I am sure whether or not you have an inny or an outy would be a hot topic of discussion.
Also: No soup for you, eh? Here's a clue:
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Shep, you are so biased and one-sided in your opinions it is ridiculous.
I don't care if its the #1 overall draft pick. If you are picking BPA, and you have two good players at that position already, then you expect the rookie to be the #3 or #4 going into camp. You EXPECT IT. If you don't, you're an idiot.
Stop with your biased-ness.
I don't get it. If I have a strong opinion that disagrees with your strong opinion, only one of us is "biased?"
That doesn't make any sense. I think you're saying that HAVING a strong opinion is biased?
If Joe Haden does something positive, like has a great preseason game or gets a great camp review, I won't be trying to spin it. I WANT him to be good. I'm no Lumbergh and never have been. I'd much rather win than be right.
But I don't by rote endorse every single thing the Browns. That sounds dull. And disagreement is good.
I don't get it. If I have a strong opinion that disagrees with your strong opinion, only one of us is "biased?"
That doesn't make any sense. I think you're saying that HAVING a strong opinion is biased?
If Joe Haden does something positive, like has a great preseason game or gets a great camp review, I won't be trying to spin it. I WANT him to be good. I'm no Lumbergh and never have been. I'd much rather win than be right.
But I don't by rote endorse every single thing the Browns. That sounds dull. And disagreement is good.
That isn’t what I’m saying, and you know it Shep.
Also, the only strong opinion I have on the matter, is that I disagree on the way you present yours.
Discussion is fine. Strong opposing opinions are fine. Arguing the two disparate points is fine.
But using incredibly non-credible reports/articles and questionable inferences or analysis and using them to enforce your strong opinion is not fine.
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I don't get it. If I have a strong opinion that disagrees with your strong opinion, only one of us is "biased?"
That doesn't make any sense. I think you're saying that HAVING a strong opinion is biased?
If Joe Haden does something positive, like has a great preseason game or gets a great camp review, I won't be trying to spin it. I WANT him to be good. I'm no Lumbergh and never have been. I'd much rather win than be right.
But I don't by rote endorse every single thing the Browns. That sounds dull. And disagreement is good.
That isn’t what I’m saying, and you know it Shep.
Also, the only strong opinion I have on the matter, is that I disagree on the way you present yours.
Discussion is fine. Strong opposing opinions are fine. Arguing the two disparate points is fine.
But using incredibly non-credible reports/articles and questionable inferences or analysis and using them to enforce your strong opinion is not fine.
That isn’t what I’m saying, and you know it Shep.
Also, the only strong opinion I have on the matter, is that I disagree on the way you present yours.
Discussion is fine. Strong opposing opinions are fine. Arguing the two disparate points is fine.
But using incredibly non-credible reports/articles and questionable inferences or analysis and using them to enforce your strong opinion is not fine.
Well, we clearly disagree on the ammunition for my opinion and its validity.
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Strangely, I was afraid you were gonna ask that! It sounds really familiar. But I don't know.
I'm not drawing any conclusions. There's no way to shoot straight to conclusions with Haden for years. It's just debate and discussion. I figured him as a good corner and a first rounder. My opinion is and was that he wouldn't mean more to a team in today's NFL with today's rules than another one of the top corners, like Jackson or Wilson.
The fact that he isn't shining (I didn't say he's sucking, just that he isn't shining) makes me further believe that he isn't really a once-every-five-years corner who should go top 10.
But agreed: no conclusions. Doesn't make sense.
(Given Wright and Brown were in place, I would've gone Dez or the Earl Thomas, preferably in a slight trade down that gives us ammunition to trade up from 38 to get Wilson or McCourty.)
So? How do we know that "Dez or Earl Thomas" are not also "failing to shine". Maybe Dez Bryant will be the next Charles Rogers and Earl Thomas the next...who knows...Brandon McDonald.
As for debate and discussion we could sit around and contemplate our navels. I am sure whether or not you have an inny or an outy would be a hot topic of discussion.
Also: No soup for you, eh? Here's a clue:
So? How do we know that "Dez or Earl Thomas" are not also "failing to shine". Maybe Dez Bryant will be the next Charles Rogers and Earl Thomas the next...who knows...Brandon McDonald.
As for debate and discussion we could sit around and contemplate our navels. I am sure whether or not you have an inny or an outy would be a hot topic of discussion.
Also: No soup for you, eh? Here's a clue:
Is it the sergeant dude from Full Metal Jacket? Or that actor in another role?
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Sgt. Hulka from Stripes.
Anything deemed as definitive at this point regarding Haden is just wrong. We still have ten days until camp, and fourteen more after that until the first preseason game.
Entering anything into the debate right now is pointless, quite frankly.
Shep, you're on record as saying you don't like the Haden pick. That opinion is valid. It is NOT further validated by Mike Lombardi.
For everyone on the other side of the argument, myself included, we have a valid opinion to wait and see. David Bowens's comments don't further validate our opinion either.
Haden's play will tell the tale. Period.
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That isn’t what I’m saying, and you know it Shep.
Also, the only strong opinion I have on the matter, is that I disagree on the way you present yours.
Discussion is fine. Strong opposing opinions are fine. Arguing the two disparate points is fine.
But using incredibly non-credible reports/articles and questionable inferences or analysis and using them to enforce your strong opinion is not fine.
Well, we clearly disagree on the ammunition for my opinion and its validity.
Well, we clearly disagree on the ammunition for my opinion and its validity.
Your ammunition is clearly a recognized crap reporter who has a grudge against the Browns and Mangini and your own inferences from an OBR report that was at best vague.
Further that by the fact that Mangini remains quite vague about all his players. As a matter of fact, you even said he was gushing about Montario. He wasn't. His comments about Montario were more optimistic at about the level that Pumpernickle is tastier than Rye bread.
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Well, we clearly disagree on the ammunition for my opinion and its validity.
Your ammunition is clearly a recognized crap reporter who has a grudge against the Browns and Mangini and your own inferences from an OBR report that was at best vague.
Further that by the fact that Mangini remains quite vague about all his players. As a matter of fact, you even said he was gushing about Montario. He wasn't. His comments about Montario were more optimistic at about the level that Pumpernickle is tastier than Rye bread.
Your ammunition is clearly a recognized crap reporter who has a grudge against the Browns and Mangini and your own inferences from an OBR report that was at best vague.
Further that by the fact that Mangini remains quite vague about all his players. As a matter of fact, you even said he was gushing about Montario. He wasn't. His comments about Montario were more optimistic at about the level that Pumpernickle is tastier than Rye bread.
Dude, now you're spinning like a top. Mangini has loved on Hardesty like a new puppy. He's given mad props to Robiskie. He's bragged on Assante and Lauvao.
He was lukewarm on Haden. Let's be honest. If Haden were ripping it up, we would have read about it SOMEWHERE, as someone on the other board put it weeks ago. He's been way beneath the radar for a 7th overall pick. Hell, we've read more about Brandon McDonald's improvement than we have about Haden!
No, that's not the last word or definitive or final or anything close. It's just where we are right now.
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Your ammunition is clearly a recognized crap reporter who has a grudge against the Browns and Mangini and your own inferences from an OBR report that was at best vague.
Further that by the fact that Mangini remains quite vague about all his players. As a matter of fact, you even said he was gushing about Montario. He wasn't. His comments about Montario were more optimistic at about the level that Pumpernickle is tastier than Rye bread.
Dude, now you're spinning like a top. Mangini has loved on Hardesty like a new puppy. He's given mad props to Robiskie. He's bragged on Assante and Lauvao.
He was lukewarm on Haden. Let's be honest. If Haden were ripping it up, we would have read about it SOMEWHERE, as someone on the other board put it weeks ago. He's been way beneath the radar for a 7th overall pick. Hell, we've read more about Brandon McDonald's improvement than we have about Haden!
No, that's not the last word or definitive or final or anything close. It's just where we are right now.
Dude, now you're spinning like a top. Mangini has loved on Hardesty like a new puppy. He's given mad props to Robiskie. He's bragged on Assante and Lauvao.
He was lukewarm on Haden. Let's be honest. If Haden were ripping it up, we would have read about it SOMEWHERE, as someone on the other board put it weeks ago. He's been way beneath the radar for a 7th overall pick. Hell, we've read more about Brandon McDonald's improvement than we have about Haden!
No, that's not the last word or definitive or final or anything close. It's just where we are right now.
Agreed. I haven't seen any negatives on Hardesty. I think Thaak be tripping on some barfing hard bs.
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
Hell.......he ain't even signed yet . lol
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