AFC North predictions
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Homotron said:
Honestly what is wrong with you? Lebeau could have taken the Talent the Browns have and had more success with that roster than the Steelers roster? It's not close Gipper. It's not even close. You're talking about arguably the best LB corp in the NFL for one. One of the top 5 defensive lines in the NFL. Aaron Smith is arguably the best 3-4 defensive end in the league and Hampton is a top 5 defensive tackle. Keisel is a underrated high motor guy that fits Lebeau's system. (Player one that fit's your argument)You then have Troy Polamalu arguably the best safety in the game and Ike Taylor who would make the pro-bowl routinely if he could catch the damn ball. Please if you'd like take the time to break down the Browns roster and then the Steelers roster and show me an area where a Brown would even crack the starting line up. The only areas where a possibility even exists and even then it's remote is corner opposite Ike and our nickel backs. No sane individual would ever make this argument ridiculous homer or not. Your making something out of nothing argument does not work AT ALL in this instance. You sound like a idiot. I guess maybe you are one.
Offensive line, cornerbacks, defensive tackles, kick returners, running backs.
These are all position where the Browns would compete with the Stoolers.
Offensive line, cornerbacks, defensive tackles, kick returners, running backs.
These are all position where the Browns would compete with the Stoolers.
We were just talking about the defense.
But if you want, sure we could break down the whole team. However, I am not that totally familiar with the entire Steeler lineup to make a full and complete comparison. I can do it at a few positions. Others would have to fill in:
QB BR vs. Delhomme. Yes, overall BR would get the nod.
FB I don't know who the Steeler FB is, but I can't imagine he is better than Vickers
RB I think pretty even. Jerome Harrison showed his obvious capabilities at the end of last year. Mendenhall had better overall numbers...but he also had more opportunities. Note this: last year the Browns had the 8th best running game in the NFL, the Steelers the 19th.
TE Heath Miller is a more proven TE than the corps the Browns have.
WR Hines Ward alone obviously gives the Steelers the edge over the Browns green bunch.
OL Overall I believe the Browns have the far superior, proven unit. Individually, right now the Browns are better at LT, LG, and C. Though Pouncey is the Steelers 1st round choice he still has to prove it. Mack has done so in his short time here.
At RG and RT it might be debatable. Both lines are in flux with question marke at RT. I don't know who the Steelers have at RG, but the Browns I believe have a rookie penciled in as their starter there.
NT Hampton and Rodgers are a pretty even matchup there....if Rodgers gets his butt on the field. Our other guy Ahtya Rubin is no slouch, but is not as proven as Hampton
DEs Aaron Smith, if healthy has proven better than anyone we have. Don't know about the other side. Please fill in
LBs The Steelers obviously have had the more proven performers with the likes of Harrison and Woodley etc. The Browns have made several additions to this corps which will hopefully improve what has been a woefully underachieving bunch in the past.
DBs Polamalu (healthy) of course gives the Steelers the edge. Please assist with the other positions. The Robo/Homo says Ike Taylor is a borderline Pro Bowler. Perhaps....but just about anything the Steelers had back there couldn't have been worse than what the Browns had. Eric Wright is decent, but beyond that it is a crapshoot for the Browns. There is a reason they drafted 3 DBs including 1st and 2d rounders. Thus, at this point the Browns may be relying on the performance of 3 rookies.
Special teamers:
K Dawson is a gamer. Reed is very good. Pretty even here.
P With Zastudil out for the year you have to give the edge to Sepulveda over Hodges
LS (Long Snapper) Browns Pontbriand is one of the best in the game. Not sure what the Steelers have
KR/PR Josh Cribbs. 'Nuff said.
Kick coverages. I believe the Browns have been significantly superior in this realm, at least last year they were.
Coaching. Hard to argue about a guy who has won a SB as a HC, but, as I have stated, I believe the real edge here goes to LeBeau at DC. Perhaps the best assistant coach ever. And Arians vs. Daboll? Pick em.
I will rely on you all to fill in some other details.
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On Mendenhall and Harrison, here are the stats:
Mendenhall 16 games, 242 carries for 1108 yards, 7 TDs, 4.6 y/c, 69.3 y/g
.....................25 catches for 261 yards, 10. y/r
Harrison 14 games, 194 carries for 862 yards, 5 TDs, 4.4 y/c, 61.6 y/g
.................... 34 catches for 220 yards, 6.5 y/r
Remember of course that for most of the year Harrison was not the featured back, he was the "Third down" back. Jamal Lewis was. Lewis had almost as many carries as Harrison. For the Steelers, Willie Parker was second on the team in carries with only 98 totes.
The Browns also gave a lot more carries to their 3rd and 4th backs: Jennings and Cribbs.
Who knows what Harrison may have done as a featured back for an entire year. We may see this year.
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1. Baltimore 10-6
2. Pittsburgh 9-7
3. Cincy 8-8
4. Cleveland 7-9
Very Tight Division ...Rats Rock Solid Offense Better , Defense Good enough ... Pittsburgh Struggles early 1-3 minus BR , then Takes a couple more weeks to get Solid after his return. Bengals Underachieve Shocking... Browns Offense Great Improvement ...but defense Fails to sustain , 2011 will be VERY Interesting.
1. Baltimore 12-4
2. Cincy 10-6
3. Cleveland 9-7
4. Pittsburgh 5-11
Sorry but your franchise has gone to shit.
1. Baltimore 12-4
2. Cincy 10-6
3. Cleveland 9-7
4. Pittsburgh 5-11
Sorry but your franchise has gone to shit.
LOL..You will be SORELY Disappointed. That makes about the 5th time I have heard this rhetoric from you guys since the Yr Y2K. But sleep on sleeper.
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1. Baltimore 10-6
2. Pittsburgh 9-7
3. Cincy 8-8
4. Cleveland 7-9
Very Tight Division ...Rats Rock Solid Offense Better , Defense Good enough ... Pittsburgh Struggles early 1-3 minus BR , then Takes a couple more weeks to get Solid after his return. Bengals Underachieve Shocking... Browns Offense Great Improvement ...but defense Fails to sustain , 2011 will be VERY Interesting.
I think this sounds about right, though I might switch Pitt and Cinci, though that is not a big switch. No Wild Cards out of this division I don't believe.
I think this sounds about right, though I might switch Pitt and Cinci, though that is not a big switch. No Wild Cards out of this division I don't believe.
Pitt and Cinncy could well Switch places. A decent start by Leftwich could result in 10 wins... as Could a decent start by Jake D . and Carson and his prima donna (Thanks) Receivers. I really see the Division as being pretty Wide open.. The RATS are in the best shape to start off however.
Climbing the Stairway...To SEVEN !! -
Homotron said:
Everyone says the offensive line isn't good but we won a Super Bowl behind that offensive line and Ben had solid stats that season. Pouncey is likely going to start at center and that's a immediate upgrade.That line last year was middle of the road in run blocking and only had 9 rushing TDs while giving up the second most sacks in the NFL. Do you think replacing Colon with an over the hill Adams is going to help that. Also, while I think Pouncey will be good, using a rookie at center is not a recipe for success either.
That line last year was middle of the road in run blocking and only had 9 rushing TDs while giving up the second most sacks in the NFL. Do you think replacing Colon with an over the hill Adams is going to help that. Also, while I think Pouncey will be good, using a rookie at center is not a recipe for success either.
Alex mack was Pretty dang good.... And Steelers are a Pass 1st Team so 9 Rushing TDs not out of line.
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QUOTE (dawgpound3 @ Aug 18 2010, 02:27 PM)
Good point, pizzadeliveryguy but did ever notice that once the Steelers' players leave for a another team, they are not as good... Hmm, I wonder why.... Dick Lebeau certainly has something to do with it.
Part of That is The Steelers aint willing to Pay a Guy Market Values IF he is seen as on the Slide by them. Other than Foote who left to Go Home....( and seen his Starting slot was gone) and Randel El who was paid an INSANE amount of money for what he is by the Skins ... seldom do Steelers allow player with a lot to offer go. Its not ALL Coaching. TALENT wins in the NFL... Cowherd say that all the time and the NFL Gurus he has on Agree with him on that point.
Climbing the Stairway...To SEVEN !! -
I think this sounds about right, though I might switch Pitt and Cinci, though that is not a big switch. No Wild Cards out of this division I don't believe.
Pitt and Cinncy could well Switch places. A decent start by Leftwich could result in 10 wins... as Could a decent start by Jake D . and Carson and his prima donna (Thanks) Receivers. I really see the Division as being pretty Wide open.. The RATS are in the best shape to start off however.
Pitt and Cinncy could well Switch places. A decent start by Leftwich could result in 10 wins... as Could a decent start by Jake D . and Carson and his Pre-Madonna Receivers. I really see the Division as being pretty Wide open.. The RATS are in the best shape to start off however.
A "Pre-Madonna"? Would that be like Debbie Harry and Blondie? Or, more like Suzie Quatro?
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Pitt and Cinncy could well Switch places. A decent start by Leftwich could result in 10 wins... as Could a decent start by Jake D . and Carson and his Pre-Madonna Receivers. I really see the Division as being pretty Wide open.. The RATS are in the best shape to start off however.
A "Pre-Madonna"? Would that be like Debbie Harry and Blondie? Or, more like Suzie Quatro?
A "Pre-Madonna"? Would that be like Debbie Harry and Blondie? Or, more like Suzie Quatro?
Not quite sure Professor. ( prima donna ) While I have heard it for yrs...never seen It spelled out. Dang another F ... on my English Test.
Climbing the Stairway...To SEVEN !! -
QUOTE (dawgpound3 @ Aug 18 2010, 02:27 PM)
Good point, pizzadeliveryguy but did ever notice that once the Steelers' players leave for a another team, they are not as good... Hmm, I wonder why.... Dick Lebeau certainly has something to do with it.
Part of That is The Steelers aint willing to Pay a Guy Market Values IF he is seen as on the Slide by them. Other than Foote who left to Go Home....( and seen his Starting slot was gone) and Randel El who was paid an INSANE amount of money for what he is by the Skins ... seldom do Steelers allow player with a lot to offer go. Its not ALL Coaching. TALENT wins in the NFL... Cowherd say that all the time and the NFL Gurus he has on Agree with him on that point.
QUOTE (dawgpound3 @ Aug 18 2010, 02:27 PM)
Good point, pizzadeliveryguy but did ever notice that once the Steelers' players leave for a another team, they are not as good... Hmm, I wonder why.... Dick Lebeau certainly has something to do with it.
Part of That is The Steelers aint willing to Pay a Guy Market Values IF he is seen as on the Slide by them. Other than Foote who left to Go Home....( and seen his Starting slot was gone) and Randel El who was paid an INSANE amount of money for what he is by the Skins ... seldom do Steelers allow player with a lot to offer go. Its not ALL Coaching. TALENT wins in the NFL... Cowherd say that all the time and the NFL Gurus he has on Agree with him on that point.
Yes, but history does not necessarily agree with that. If say, all those guys from the 70s Steelers had been disbursed around to other teams do you think they would have all been Hall of Famers? Or just maybe pretty good players? I contend that if Jerry Sherk had been on the Steelers and coached by Noll and Bud Carson HE may have been the Hall of Famer, and if Joe Greene had been here he would have been considered just a good player.
It is the superior coaching that has defined the NFL for 80 years and beyond from Curly Lambeau to George Halas to Paul Brown to Vince Lombardi to Chuck Noll to Tom Landry to Don Shula to Bill Walsh to Bill Parcells to Bill Belichick. You need good talent yes, but like I say...you put Jerry Sherk and Randy Gradishar and Jack Tatum on the 70s Steelers instead of Greene and Lambert and Shell, and you might have actually had a better more talented team!
But, the former Steelers are in the HOF and the others are not....all because overall they played with better coaching.
The 49ers dynasty was built on 3 great players, Montana/Rice/Lott. The coaching system of Walsh got them a lot further than the talent. Who are the "great" players of the Patriots dynasty? Brady, yes. But anyone else, really? (Moss did not play on any of the 3 SB winning Pat teams). Belichick's coaching definitely was the key.
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A "Pre-Madonna"? Would that be like Debbie Harry and Blondie? Or, more like Suzie Quatro?
Not quite sure Professor. ( prima donna ) While I have heard it for yrs...never seen It spelled out. Dang another F ... on my English Test.
Not quite sure Professor. ( prima donna ) While I have heard it for yrs...never seen It spelled out. Dang another F ... on my English Test.
We'll elevate you to a C- for providing good comic relief. So, here is your reward. A littl Suzi:
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QUOTE (dawgpound3 @ Aug 18 2010, 02:27 PM)
Good point, pizzadeliveryguy but did ever notice that once the Steelers' players leave for a another team, they are not as good... Hmm, I wonder why.... Dick Lebeau certainly has something to do with it.
Part of That is The Steelers aint willing to Pay a Guy Market Values IF he is seen as on the Slide by them. Other than Foote who left to Go Home....( and seen his Starting slot was gone) and Randel El who was paid an INSANE amount of money for what he is by the Skins ... seldom do Steelers allow player with a lot to offer go. Its not ALL Coaching. TALENT wins in the NFL... Cowherd say that all the time and the NFL Gurus he has on Agree with him on that point.
Yes, but history does not necessarily agree with that. If say, all those guys from the 70s Steelers had been disbursed around to other teams do you think they would have all been Hall of Famers? Or just maybe pretty good players? I contend that if Jerry Sherk had been on the Steelers and coached by Noll and Bud Carson HE may have been the Hall of Famer, and if Joe Greene had been here he would have been considered just a good player.
It is the superior coaching that has defined the NFL for 80 years and beyond from Curly Lambeau to George Halas to Paul Brown to Vince Lombardi to Chuck Noll to Tom Landry to Don Shula to Bill Walsh to Bill Parcells to Bill Belichick. You need good talent yes, but like I say...you put Jerry Sherk and Randy Gradishar and Jack Tatum on the 70s Steelers instead of Greene and Lambert and Shell, and you might have actually had a better more talented team!
But, the former Steelers are in the HOF and the others are not....all because overall they played with better coaching.
The 49ers dynasty was built on 3 great players, Montana/Rice/Lott. The coaching system of Walsh got them a lot further than the talent. Who are the "great" players of the Patriots dynasty? Brady, yes. But anyone else, really? (Moss did not play on any of the 3 SB winning Pat teams). Belichick's coaching definitely was the key.
Yes, but history does not necessarily agree with that. If say, all those guys from the 70s Steelers had been disbursed around to other teams do you think they would have all been Hall of Famers? Or just maybe pretty good players? I contend that if Jerry Sherk had been on the Steelers and coached by Noll and Bud Carson HE may have been the Hall of Famer, and if Joe Greene had been here he would have been considered just a good player.
It is the superior coaching that has defined the NFL for 80 years and beyond from Curly Lambeau to George Halas to Paul Brown to Vince Lombardi to Chuck Noll to Tom Landry to Don Shula to Bill Walsh to Bill Parcells to Bill Belichick. You need good talent yes, but like I say...you put Jerry Sherk and Randy Gradishar and Jack Tatum on the 70s Steelers instead of Greene and Lambert and Shell, and you might have actually had a better more talented team!
But, the former Steelers are in the HOF and the others are not....all because overall they played with better coaching.
The 49ers dynasty was built on 3 great players, Montana/Rice/Lott. The coaching system of Walsh got them a lot further than the talent. Who are the "great" players of the Patriots dynasty? Brady, yes. But anyone else, really? (Moss did not play on any of the 3 SB winning Pat teams). Belichick's coaching definitely was the key
.Hmmmm.... I see what your saying. But dont you think Hall of fame players in general ...not ALL.... but many have received the benefit of the Doubt because of being Good on Great teams. And on the Flip side would Jim Brown have been Less of a Player on a Sorry team ? Great Talent is gonna Shine... but you could have a Point on Sherk , though Greene I think was on another level sort of like Brown .
Climbing the Stairway...To SEVEN !! -
Not quite sure Professor. ( prima donna ) While I have heard it for yrs...never seen It spelled out. Dang another F ... on my English Test.
We'll elevate you to a C- for providing good comic relief. So, here is your reward. A littl Suzi:
We'll elevate you to a C- for providing good comic relief. So, here is your reward. A littl Suzi:
LOL Where is the Fonz ???
was it Leather Tuscadero ? or Pinkie ?Climbing the Stairway...To SEVEN !! -
The number of wins on the Steeler balance sheet could depend on how well they do without BR and the number of games he's actually out. A swing of one or two games could make a big difference in how their season turns out.
The number of wins on the Steeler balance sheet could depend on how well they do without BR and the number of games he's actually out. A swing of one or two games could make a big difference in how their season turns out.
I agree and its well known Leftwich is one of the slowest and lead footed QB's to ever play. Behind that awful line its gonna be hell for him to try to pass the ball to a WR corp that isnt very good as well. Shittsburgh better learn how to run the football again or it will be a long season. Their top 5 defense also wont be as productive because they will be on the field most of the game! Im giving them 6 wins this year..
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That line last year was middle of the road in run blocking and only had 9 rushing TDs while giving up the second most sacks in the NFL. Do you think replacing Colon with an over the hill Adams is going to help that. Also, while I think Pouncey will be good, using a rookie at center is not a recipe for success either.
Alex mack was Pretty dang good.... And Steelers are a Pass 1st Team so 9 Rushing TDs not out of line.
Alex mack was Pretty dang good....
Exception, not the rule.
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The number of wins on the Steeler balance sheet could depend on how well they do without BR and the number of games he's actually out. A swing of one or two games could make a big difference in how their season turns out.
I agree and its well known Leftwich is one of the slowest and lead footed QB's to ever play. Behind that awful line its gonna be hell for him to try to pass the ball to a WR corp that isnt very good as well. Shittsburgh better learn how to run the football again or it will be a long season. Their top 5 defense also wont be as productive because they will be on the field most of the game! Im giving them 6 wins this year..
I agree and its well known Leftwich is one of the slowest and lead footed QB's to ever play. Behind that awful line its gonna be hell for him to try to pass the ball to a WR corp that isnt very good as well. Shittsburgh better learn how to run the football again or it will be a long season. Their top 5 defense also wont be as productive because they will be on the field most of the game! Im giving them 6 wins this year..
Since when is Ward, Wallace, Randel El, Miller not very good?
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Yes, but history does not necessarily agree with that. If say, all those guys from the 70s Steelers had been disbursed around to other teams do you think they would have all been Hall of Famers? Or just maybe pretty good players? I contend that if Jerry Sherk had been on the Steelers and coached by Noll and Bud Carson HE may have been the Hall of Famer, and if Joe Greene had been here he would have been considered just a good player.
It is the superior coaching that has defined the NFL for 80 years and beyond from Curly Lambeau to George Halas to Paul Brown to Vince Lombardi to Chuck Noll to Tom Landry to Don Shula to Bill Walsh to Bill Parcells to Bill Belichick. You need good talent yes, but like I say...you put Jerry Sherk and Randy Gradishar and Jack Tatum on the 70s Steelers instead of Greene and Lambert and Shell, and you might have actually had a better more talented team!
But, the former Steelers are in the HOF and the others are not....all because overall they played with better coaching.
The 49ers dynasty was built on 3 great players, Montana/Rice/Lott. The coaching system of Walsh got them a lot further than the talent. Who are the "great" players of the Patriots dynasty? Brady, yes. But anyone else, really? (Moss did not play on any of the 3 SB winning Pat teams). Belichick's coaching definitely was the key
.Hmmmm.... I see what your saying. But dont you think Hall of fame players in general ...not ALL.... but many have received the benefit of the Doubt because of being Good on Great teams. And on the Flip side would Jim Brown have been Less of a Player on a Sorry team ? Great Talent is gonna Shine... but you could have a Point on Sherk , though Greene I think was on another level sort of like Brown .
Hmmmm.... I see what your saying. But dont you think Hall of fame players in general ...not ALL.... but many have received the benefit of the Doubt because of being Good on Great teams. And on the Flip side would Jim Brown have been Less of a Player on a Sorry team ? Great Talent is gonna Shine... but you could have a Point on Sherk , though Greene I think was on another level sort of like Brown .
Oddly, the teams Jim Brown was on were not all that good necessarily. In fact, I think except for his last two years, '64 and '65 the Browns did not see postseason play. Of course that was when only two teams did see postseason play.
On Sherk, perhaps you are right. Maybe a better comparison would be between and say Bob Lilley or Randy White.
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We'll elevate you to a C- for providing good comic relief. So, here is your reward. A littl Suzi:
LOL Where is the Fonz ???
was it Leather Tuscadero ? or Pinkie ?LOL Where is the Fonz ???
was it Leather Tuscadero ? or Pinkie ?That's right. I forgot about that. I think she was Pinkie Tusdadero...in leather. She looked good in leather.
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LOL Where is the Fonz ???
was it Leather Tuscadero ? or Pinkie ?That's right. I forgot about that. I think she was Pinkie Tusdadero...in leather. She looked good in leather.
That's right. I forgot about that. I think she was Pinkie Tusdadero...in leather. She looked good in leather.
yes she did
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Heres a Rock N Roll NFL Story for ya all.
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1. Baltimore 11-5
I think they are the class of the division by far. The defense is a bit overrated these days but is still pretty good. The Offense has possibilities of being very scary. Flacco just keeps getting better, Rice is a stud, and they added two weapons at WR. I look for them to challenge for the SB.
2. Cincy 9-7
I'm not drinking the Bengal Kool-Aid. The defense is certainly good enough and the offense is getting a lot of press but until Palmer shows me a glimmer of what he once was, I'm not buying it. I just don't think he has the arm he used to.
3. Pittsburgh 7-9
4 games w/o Roethlisberger + counting on Flozell Adams is going to hurt. I don't think losing Holmes is going to be a huge drop but certainly hurts a bit. On the plus side, the defense should be rock solid with a healthy Polamalua.
4. Cleveland 6-10
I had a hard time finding more wins than this but I also see this as the floor for the Brown's season. I honestly think the can play with most teams if Delhomme isn't the turnover machine he was last year and the line can continue the road grader like performance that they ended the year with. The defense once again will be a weakness but it should be much improved over last year. I have high hopes but low expectations.
1. Baltimore 11-5
I think they are the class of the division by far. The defense is a bit overrated these days but is still pretty good. The Offense has possibilities of being very scary. Flacco just keeps getting better, Rice is a stud, and they added two weapons at WR. I look for them to challenge for the SB.
2. Cincy 9-7
I'm not drinking the Bengal Kool-Aid. The defense is certainly good enough and the offense is getting a lot of press but until Palmer shows me a glimmer of what he once was, I'm not buying it. I just don't think he has the arm he used to.
3. Pittsburgh 7-9
4 games w/o Roethlisberger + counting on Flozell Adams is going to hurt. I don't think losing Holmes is going to be a huge drop but certainly hurts a bit. On the plus side, the defense should be rock solid with a healthy Polamalua.
4. Cleveland 6-10
I had a hard time finding more wins than this but I also see this as the floor for the Brown's season. I honestly think the can play with most teams if Delhomme isn't the turnover machine he was last year and the line can continue the road grader like performance that they ended the year with. The defense once again will be a weakness but it should be much improved over last year. I have high hopes but low expectations.
Update through two weeks.
Baltimore- The Offense isn't clicking like I thought they would but that should improve. Flacco is much better than what he has showed thus far.
Cincy- I think I have them pretty well pegged. Palmer is nothing more than a game manager at this point.
Pitt- I didn't figure they would be 2-0 at this point. The defense, as I suspected is championship caliber but gaining a net 127 yards definitely gives reasons for concern if you are a Steeler fan. It will be interesting to see how rusty Roethlisberger is when he gets back.
Cleveland- Not good. On the plus side, they were in position to win both games but that doesn't really mean much at this point. I do like the way the defense is playing but the offense is woefully in need of playmakers (thank you captain obvious).
Readjusted records...........
Baltimore 11-5
Pittsburgh 10-6
Cincinnati 8-8
Cleveland 4-12
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