Is This Progress

Gips

While there has been progress it is simply not enough as compared to other clubs, this is the nfl its not highschool ball and the linear offensive coaching plays an enormous role in this teams inability to move forward...

The mangini love will die out over time when more fans actually notice how poorly coached this team is and as the players one by one just quit on the field like braylon, poole, thomas and harrison are doing in hopes of being traded and i cant blame them...

You can see it if you take off the blinders and look at the players and im sure holmgren knows it....

NewEraDawg

Still pushing the "it's all Mangini's fault" card ...........huh Gimp ?

next2nothing

@neweradawg said:
Still pushing the "it's all Mangini's fault" card ...........huh Gimp ?

He's going to push it till Mangini is out of town. Which is sad, because a lot of fans can see a structure being put up right now while Gips focuses on the fact that we're 1 - 4.

Yet he won't acknowledge that we've never quit in any game thus far. All our games have been close and our D is playing better than what they show on paper. We found our new RB in Hillis. Haden and Ward are showing flashes of being the defenders we want them to be and they improve each week. Yes, there are still parts of this team that need fixing, but you can't fix everything in one off-season. This isn't Madden 10.

As far as some of the players quitting. It's not quitting. It's they were never that great in the first place. Jerome Harrison looked like he was going to take over after the last 4 games last year but obviously he is still the same player and I really don't think he stays on this team in the off-season. Edwards is a diva and he hasn't done anything great in New York. Pool wasn't anything great either. Thomas hasn't quit. Is it possible he may have just had a bad game? Jesus...

Give Mangini and this organization a decent amount of leash because a team who has become accustomed to losing doesn't learn to win in one season. How do some of you expect us to become a winning, contending team when every 2 - 3 years we bring in another coach?

This negativity is atrocious and if you're just going to look at all the bad each week then go root for another team please.

CantonLegend

surprisingly the browns have been fun to watch for me

despite them making similar stupid mistakes that they make year in and year out, they look a lot better in all phases

hillis is so fun to watch. fujita, roth and barton make up one of the most underrated LB corps in the league and the secondary is playing surprisngly well

the drafts have turned out well and the front office seems to be doing things to make the team a lot better

all these close losses this year will turn into wins next season

Mark O

I agree....we went through this in the tavern after the game. I'm so sick of the negativity. This team is better than last year and is heading in the right direction. Everyone needs to shut up and let things develop for a bit.

hoorta

Formerly Stone said:
You can't make that claim about Modell. He was the scapegoat victim of the city of Cleveland's infinite stupidity.
Don't f**king even bring your ignorance and stupidity to bear here on that subject. Touch a nerve with some reality you don't want to admit?

Really? Give it up..........Cleveland will NEVER see a top named coach here.....NEVER. Want proof? look back at your history! You are so cute when you get your panties in a bunch! You're a hoot dude [/color]

Those that think NFL history started in 1970 are even a bigger hoot- so if you need a history lesson- here it is. Paul Brown, Blanton Collier, and Marty Shottenhiemer all have better winning percentages than Chuck Noll, so kindly remove that foot you just stuck in your pie-hole. And if Brown hadn't taken on the coaching duties of some crap Bengals teams and the NFL would recognize his AAFC record, he'd top Lombardi for best W-L %.

Yeah, Modell was such a forking genius, he fired TWO of the 20 best coaches in NFL history (make that three counting Belichick) , and managed to go broke while he was milking one of the top 5 cash cows in the NFL in the process. And I'll agree with Gipper- the Modell thing has been beaten to death over the years, and bluntly, a ton of misinformation propaganda got out to the National media that was flat-out spin doctoring by Artie- starting with "I had no choice." [[ addendum- Make that- if I want to pass the team to my cigar chomping kid. ]] Lerner could just as easily have written the $600 million check to Modell as he did to the NFL three years later. Face it- Modell mangled his finances up so badly, a new Browns Stadium (which he never asked for incidentally) he WAS asked to be part of Gateway, and refused- even a $50 million dollar bribe from the State of Maryland AND a new stadium wasn't enough to keep the booger financially solvent.

hoorta

@gips said:
While there has been progress it is simply not enough as compared to other clubs, this is the nfl its not highschool ball and the linear offensive coaching plays an enormous role in this teams inability to move forward...
The mangini love will die out over time when more fans actually notice how poorly coached this team is and as the players one by one just quit on the field like braylon, poole, thomas and harrison are doing in hopes of being traded and i cant blame them...

You can see it if you take off the blinders and look at the players and im sure holmgren knows it....

Yeah, since Tampa and Kansas City are doing OK this year, your solution is to can the coaching staff. By your logic, Jerry Jones should have fired Wade Phillips yesterday, and Childress in Minnesota should be right behind him in the unemployment line this morning. Teams with vastly superior talent that are sucking big time.

Whoo-hoo. Poole got his pants beat off tonight on MNF, if you bothered to watch. He's about due for his career ending concussion. Edwards the Diva of the DUI- Mr Party boy- well, maybe since he's off the sauce now and can actually see straight- is averaging a tad over three catches per game.

So you think Harrison- he of the six carries for six yards was falling down on purpose, after barely being touched in the Atlanta game? IN A CONTRACT YEAR? Don't insult my intelligence. Thomas had a bad game- it happens.

So great Guru of Mangooffy's Gotta Go, care to expound on the quality of the Browns wide receivers, that our Atlanta guest accurately assessed as not up to snuff? So they could play 10 yard defense and stuff Hillis? How about qb? We have a washed up Jake, and career backup in Wallace- who no one is going to compare to an elite qb, yet are still an improvement over what we had last year. Notice Quinn and Anderception are riding pine in Denver and Arizona respectively?

Don't give me the coulda, shoulda got Moss, Boldin. Those guys were going to go to SB contenders, not to Cleveland.

Coaching can only take you so far in the NFL. You need players. Since we play Pittsburgh this week, go ask our Steeler trolls how many of the Browns could start there- seriously. It would still be a damn short list. You might be able to add Hillis and TJ Ward this year. Out of the 22 starters, I'd say maybe 5 others tops.

hoorta

Formerly Stone said:
Nobody, but you, said anything about pre or post 70's. The only two named coaches that have coached in Cleveland in the last 50 years have been upstart no-name coaches who were fired in Cleveland and went on to be great elsewhere so you can't claim them......nice try though!

Goes to show Modell didn't know coaching talent if it walked up to him and bit him in the ass. And as to how moving the team worked out- it got him unceremoniously drummed out of the NFL Ownership fraternity.

Yeah- Marty's two AFC Championship appearances in Cleveland make him a real bum. And you said never- that's a long time- so how the hell do you know? Few years back, I could have won a bunch of coin betting against suckers who were stupid enough to believe the Saints would "never" win a Super Bowl. And BTW you said no coaches- I suppose one that's in the HOF doesn't count either, you didn't give me any time constraints, IIRC.

BrownB499

Formerly Stone said:
Trust me..........you will NEVER see a top name coach come here.......NEVER!

AHEM...... Mike Holmgren...

....Nice try troll

mopaji

@gafreleets said:
making progress?
only in cleveland.

you guys "progress" is like being "a little less dead".

i guess in stainland you gotta take what you can get.

"0-16!!!!!! but we lost every game by only 1 point!!!! that's progress out the wazooo!!!!"

Again, we need to put an "F-You" button next to the "Thank You" button.

mopaji

This is progress. I'm too sleepy to go into specifics but this year's team would blow last year's team out of the stadium. In my opinion, all we are missing is a true #1 WR. This team is well coached and the game plan each week has been solid and effective. The defense has a ton of talent and the offense can be addressed this offseason. In the meantime, you have 55 guys leaning the system and playing there asses off each week. And we are as physical as any team in the league. Look at how much activity goes on after the whistle. Some may say it's a sign of sloppy play but what it really is is a team beating another team up all day and the other team getting frustrated. Everything is in place except for a bonified offensive weapon. Losing sucks like a Vegas call girl but I am pretty happy about what I'm seeing relative to where we are in the rebuilding process.

USFBrown

Yes this is progress. Although we are 1-4, we have hung in every game. Our opponents records thus far are:

Tampa Bay - 3-1

Kansas City - 3-1

Baltimore - 4-1

Atlanta - 4-1

That's some pretty stiff competition besides Tampa (they still need to prove themselves IMO). We've made some stupid mistakes in these games to help us lose, but once we get those turned around, we could be a lot better.

Harry Buffalo

@gips said:
While there has been progress it is simply not enough as compared to other clubs, this is the nfl its not highschool ball and the linear offensive coaching plays an enormous role in this teams inability to move forward...
The mangini love will die out over time when more fans actually notice how poorly coached this team is and as the players one by one just quit on the field like braylon, poole, thomas and harrison are doing in hopes of being traded and i cant blame them...

You can see it if you take off the blinders and look at the players and im sure holmgren knows it....

Thomas has one bad game ONE and he is quiting so he can be traded. Thomas is going to turn into a Dawson, he is going to be a Brown for his entire career or most of his career. They are not going to trade him and he sure isn't going to seek free agency and leave.

The Gipper

Formerly Stone said:
WOW! Are you drunk? Post #15 has my statement which is very clear and your absurd question!
I'm honestly curious, exactly what do you believe happened in these games which should equate to a couple more wins for the Browns?

You obviously didn't bother even noticing what happened in these games. The first two losses to Tampa and KC were the direct result of interceptions being returned for a TD or to the 1 yard line. Those TDs were the margin of victory for the Browns opponents. If those picks are not made and run back, in all likelihood the Browns win. The same could possibly be said for the Atlanta game. There, the Browns were trying to drive for either a game winning TD or a game tieing FG. Instead the Int. occurs to make it a 10 point margin. Its a simple equation: don't make those turnovers and you might very well have won.

Gafreleets

@the-gipper said:
You obviously didn't bother even noticing what happened in these games. The first two losses to Tampa and KC were the direct result of interceptions being returned for a TD or to the 1 yard line. Those TDs were the margin of victory for the Browns opponents. If those picks are not made and run back, in all likelihood the Browns win. The same could possibly be said for the Atlanta game. There, the Browns were trying to drive for either a game winning TD or a game tieing FG. Instead the Int. occurs to make it a 10 point margin. Its a simple equation: don't make those turnovers and you might very well have won.

hate to burst your bubble, but most games are won or lost on a couple of plays. hell, when the lions went 0-16 i think 8 of their games were lost by less than 7 points.

unfortunately you should all know what "almost" is for.

The Gipper

Formerly Stone said:
Nobody, but you, said anything about pre or post 70's. The only two named coaches that have coached in Cleveland in the last 50 years have been upstart no-name coaches who were fired in Cleveland and went on to be great elsewhere so you can't claim them......nice try though!
Trust me..........you will NEVER see a top name coach come here.......NEVER!

And as far as Modell, you can believe what you want, spin it however you want, deny reality when it serves you, but the bottom line is that Modell and the flavor of the year buffoons running the city of Cleveland couldn't reach agreement so he moved the team.........plain and simple! If you believe that it was all Modell, I'll ask a simple question....."how is the city of Cleveland doing otherwise....and how did moving the team work for Modell?" Thought so!

Sure, sure, sure. You know it all, except, that factually you are WRONG on every count. 1. The City of Cleveland and Modell DID reach an agreement. They agreed to put a measure on the ballot that would fund the stadium refinancing. (remodeling, admin.ed) They had a lease agreement on the stadium that went another 3 years at minimum. Modell simply attempted to breach his agreements. Why do you think the Court's ruled in the City's favor?

2. How is the city doing? Very fine. Thank you for asking. A new Browns Stadium, a new Indians stadium, a new arena, a new science center, a new Rock n' Roll HOF. The economy could be better, but that is a problem all over America. Cleveland is better than if we still had the Modell's running the Browns.

3. How did moving the team work for Modell? I would think neutral at best. If he had just sold the team to Lerner in the first place he plausibly may have been able to net about the same money he actually did. And he would not have ended up being a pariah, nor would he have ended up with the ignomious distinction of being one of only 2 owners in history to have been kicked out of the league

The Gipper

@gafreleets said:
hate to burst your bubble, but most games are won or lost on a couple of plays. hell, when the lions went 0-16 i think 8 of their games were lost by less than 7 points.
unfortunately you should all know what "almost" is for.

You are not bursting any bubble. I agree with you that many/most games are decided on one or two plays, that is why I pointed out those one or two plays that DID make the difference in the Browns losses this year, which if they had not gone wrong for them could have ended up in a victory. In the one win the Browns have those one or two plays went in their favor as opposed to against them.

My point of all this is to demonstrate that this year compared to last year it is indeed a fact that the Browns in 2010 are within those one or two plays of having a completely different record. Last year at the beginning of the season there weren't hardly any games that were "won or lost on a couple of plays". They were getting blown out by about an 18 point margin. A ton of different plays would have had to gone differently, not just one or two.

So, I ask again: is it progress for the Browns to be losing these game by those one or two plays as opposed to the 20-25 plays that were the difference last year?

djdawg2010

@the-gipper said:
Sure, sure, sure. You know it all, except, that factually you are WRONG on every count. 1. The City of Cleveland and Modell DID reach an agreement. They agreed to put a measure on the ballot that would fund the stadium refinancing. They had a lease agreement on the stadium that went another 3 years at minimum. Modell simply attempted to breach his agreements. Why do you think the Court's ruled in the City's favor?
2. How is the city doing? Very fine. Thank you for asking. A new Browns Stadium, a new Indians stadium, a new arena, a new science center, a new Rock n' Roll HOF. The economy could be better, but that is a problem all over America. Cleveland is better than if we still had the Modell's running the Browns.

3. How did moving the team work for Modell? I would think neutral at best. If he had just sold the team to Lerner in the first place he plausibly may have been able to net about the same money he actually did. And he would not have ended up being a pariah, nor would he have ended up with the ignomious distinction of being one of only 2 owners in history to have been kicked out of the league

Gipper why waste your time with this f***??? Obviously he has an axe to grind with Clevelanders! I wish that when people would post about Art Modell and the Browns move they would know the real facts, especially those that don't reside in the area! Yes the city deserves some of the blame, but Modell was a poor business man, and made poor decisions. He also allowed some less than desirable people handle his money which put him in the situation that he was in.