REAL Browns fans answer a question please
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OYY. Come on Man! There is no such thing as new or old Browns. There has NEVER been a change in the franchise.
The Ravens were a new franchise established in 1996. Ownership of that was granted to Modell (who did in fact pay a pretty hefty sum to the other NFL owners for the privilege), plus he did take some personell with him there...front office people mostly and some players....but not the coaching staff.
Ive just heard so many testimonies from fans saying "Yeah this is the Browns but it felt so different before they left. It doesn't feel like the same team."
Ive just heard so many testimonies from fans saying "Yeah this is the Browns but it felt so different before they left. It doesn't feel like the same team."
Three years off may have led to some of that feeling, but so has the poor play. If they had been winning it wouldn't have felt any different. Losing always feels different than losing.
Ask our local Steeler trolls. Do you think they feel different because their team has had a couple of decades of winning vs. when they had 4 decades of losing? Ask Saints fans if it feels different winning Super Bowls than it does from the days people wore bags over their heads and the stadium was only half full. And ask Bills fans or Raiders fans if it feels different now that they have been losing a lot vs. when they were appearing in numerous Super Bowls.
Give the Browns a deep playoff run and it will feel the same here as it did before.
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One other thing about the move to Baltimore that you left out.
Art Modell also voted against Baltimore getting one of the last two expansion teams before he moved his team. Looking back why did he not vote to put teams in Baltimore and St. Louis if not for his own desire to move his team to one of those cities? Charlotte North Carolina may have been a good decision in hindsight, but in Jacksonville, aside from recent blackouts for TV audiences in the area, usually covers entire sections of the stadium for Jaguars games and sells out for Gators, when they do play there, games in the same stadium. If the two expansion teams were moved to Baltimore and St. Louis instead of Jacksonville and Carolina there would still be an NFL team in Los Angeles (a popular landing place for the Jaguars in rumors) and Cleveland would have never had a 3 year hiatus.
Yeah, I don't understand the thing with Jacksonville. It's unfortunate too, because I hate to see any team relocate. In the end, it's the fans that get screwed more than anything.
Yeah, I don't understand the thing with Jacksonville. It's unfortunate too, because I hate to see any team relocate. In the end, it's the fans that get screwed more than anything.
I do understand the Jacksonville thing: Jax really is a pretty good football town. It supported the Bulls of the USFL pretty well and college football well. And it had good support early on when Mark Brunell had them in the playoffs.
Also, primarily is that the other NFL owners were highly, highly impressed with Wayne Weaver, proposed owner of the Jags, and they wanted this man to be a part of their exclusive club so they awarded the town a team. Did Jax have a better bid for the expansion than Baltimore and St. Louis? I don't know, I suppose it was close. But those towns didn't have a Wayne Weaver backing up the bid, and all things being otherwise fairly equal, the NFL guys chose Weaver.
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Thank You ATENEARS
Great post
Let's not forget Modell originally proposed that Gateway be a combination football and baseball stadium...with him as landlord of course
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Yeah, I don't understand the thing with Jacksonville. It's unfortunate too, because I hate to see any team relocate. In the end, it's the fans that get screwed more than anything.
I do understand the Jacksonville thing: Jax really is a pretty good football town. It supported the Bulls of the USFL pretty well and college football well. And it had good support early on when Mark Brunell had them in the playoffs.
Also, primarily is that the other NFL owners were highly, highly impressed with Wayne Weaver, proposed owner of the Jags, and they wanted this man to be a part of their exclusive club so they awarded the town a team. Did Jax have a better bid for the expansion than Baltimore and St. Louis? I don't know, I suppose it was close. But those towns didn't have a Wayne Weaver backing up the bid, and all things being otherwise fairly equal, the NFL guys chose Weaver.
I do understand the Jacksonville thing: Jax really is a pretty good football town. It supported the Bulls of the USFL pretty well and college football well. And it had good support early on when Mark Brunell had them in the playoffs.
Also, primarily is that the other NFL owners were highly, highly impressed with Wayne Weaver, proposed owner of the Jags, and they wanted this man to be a part of their exclusive club so they awarded the town a team. Did Jax have a better bid for the expansion than Baltimore and St. Louis? I don't know, I suppose it was close. But those towns didn't have a Wayne Weaver backing up the bid, and all things being otherwise fairly equal, the NFL guys chose Weaver.
The answer to the bolded question, NO.
If Jacksonville would have had a better deal for a new owner than Baltimore or St. Louis I don't believe Art Modell would have voted for them to get a new team. He saw the sweet heart deal that was set up for a new owner in Baltimore (new stadium with lots of skyboxes (skybox money isn't shared with the league), large chunk of the Personal Seat Licenses fees, stadium naming money, etc. etc.) and I believe he wanted that for himself. Luckily, he sold the team to a local guy who is not out for the money (Steve Biscotti is very successful without the Ravens) like I feel Georgia Frontiere (married Mr. Carroll Rosenbloom who originally owned the Colts traded to Irsay for Rams making a long story short), Modell and Irsay was.
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Thank You ATENEARS
Great post
Let's not forget Modell originally proposed that Gateway be a combination football and baseball stadium...with him as landlord of course
Thank You ATENEARS
Great post
Let's not forget Modell originally proposed that Gateway be a combination football and baseball stadium...with him as landlord of course
This is the biggest hypocracy I saw from Art Modell. He was the stadium owner and tried to get a new stadium built from city/state funds. If they weren't getting any of the money from any events held at the stadium, out side of taxes, why should the city/state be responsible for building a new stadium? He should have been talking to the person who owned the building, himself. Jerry Jones built his own stadium. Jack Kemp Cook built his own stadium. Why couldn't he have built his own stadium?
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First of all let me say that I have been a frequent visitor to this site, and I admire the passion of the REAL Browns fans on this board. Also, the knowledge of the game of football exhibited by Browns fans on this site trumps that of some of the fans on my Ravens message board. So with that in mind, I want to ask those fans a question...
As a Baltimore Ravens fan, I'm asking...are the REAL Browns fans over the move to Baltimore by Art Modell?
Keep in mind that Iam an old Baltimore Colts fan who still harbors a grudge with anything named Irsay. The two moves aren't comparable, as far as I'm concerned, but I want to hear the opinions of the REAL Cleveland football fans. Steeler fans, keep your dirty opinions to yourself.
First of all let me say that I have been a frequent visitor to this site, and I admire the passion of the REAL Browns fans on this board. Also, the knowledge of the game of football exhibited by Browns fans on this site trumps that of some of the fans on my Ravens message board. So with that in mind, I want to ask those fans a question...
As a Baltimore Ravens fan, I'm asking...are the REAL Browns fans over the move to Baltimore by Art Modell?
Keep in mind that Iam an old Baltimore Colts fan who still harbors a grudge with anything named Irsay. The two moves aren't comparable, as far as I'm concerned, but I want to hear the opinions of the REAL Cleveland football fans. Steeler fans, keep your dirty opinions to yourself.
I was totally angry and upset for seven or so years. I worked hard to get the Browns back in Cleveland, sending messages and the like to the NFL.
then I started mellowing as more info became available.........and
Now, Art is forgiven. I think he was backed into a corner, a lot of it was his own fault by fiscal irresponsibility and a lot by a sweetheart deal to hard to refuse..............
So, I have forgiven Art.......and I think deep in his heart if he could have done it different he would have................
and under his leadership the Browns would have remained a great franchise
No one can deny when he owned the Browns the passion and dedication was there every Sunday for 52 weeks a year
The Lerner experience has been not quite worse than awful
Stan's message was right on and accurate. The problem with Art was that he was in such a huge financial hole the only way out was the Bmore buyout. And Al Lerner brokered the whole deal, so what makes him any better than Art?
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IMHO, things such as moving a team aren't done by one SINGLE person. That being said, I harbor great resentment for Baltimore because of...
First some history...As a pro football fan & traditionalist since the mid '50s, I was VERY upset that the Colts (even though I never was a Colt's season long fan) were removed from Baltimore, INCLUDING the name & history. I have always been against the "new" Colts, even at playoff time.
For WHATEVER reason, being Modell, political reasons, etc, our Browns DID move to Baltimore & were welcomed with open arms (even AFTER what was done to them). Our keeping the Brown's name was sort of an afterthought to the "move". Baltimore would NOT have nixed the move had obtaining the Brown's name also been a part of it. In other words, the way I see it, Baltimore did to Cleveland what was done to them & I will carry ill will for that team to my grave.
Just my biased, & possibly uneducated opinion, but I'm stickin' to it.
Mike
IMHO, things such as moving a team aren't done by one SINGLE person. That being said, I harbor great resentment for Baltimore because of...
First some history...As a pro football fan & traditionalist since the mid '50s, I was VERY upset that the Colts (even though I never was a Colt's season long fan) were removed from Baltimore, INCLUDING the name & history. I have always been against the "new" Colts, even at playoff time.
For WHATEVER reason, being Modell, political reasons, etc, our Browns DID move to Baltimore & were welcomed with open arms (even AFTER what was done to them). Our keeping the Brown's name was sort of an afterthought to the "move". Baltimore would NOT have nixed the move had obtaining the Brown's name also been a part of it. In other words, the way I see it, Baltimore did to Cleveland what was done to them & I will carry ill will for that team to my grave.
Just my biased, & possibly uneducated opinion, but I'm stickin' to it.
Mike
You see VERY Clearly Mike. Baltimore People are Scum. At Least Pittsburgh Fans morned your teams loss and MANY Protested the Move .
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This dude is NO Steeler Fan .... no.1 NO Steeler Fan would have Bubby as part of his name... not Exactly our Proudest days . And he would choose an ex-Steeler and Have the screen name basically making fun of the player ? Come on man... this is a Casual Browns Fan Stirring the Pot.
Freak, as I've stated before, you're all right. I'm sure he is a Steelers fan, but who knows. Whatever or whoever he/she is, I cannot stand the arrogance and gloating and the down right disrespect. Show at least a little sportsmanship. If you notice, other fans post here and when respectful for the most part they're treated kindly. Sure, not all of the time, but I'm not gonna blow up another fan just because he likes another team. I will however, blow them up if they come at us with bullshit. Make sense? In other words... "don't start no shit, won't be no shit!"
Freak, as I've stated before, you're all right. I'm sure he is a Steelers fan, but who knows. Whatever or whoever he/she is, I cannot stand the arrogance and gloating and the down right disrespect. Show at least a little sportsmanship. If you notice, other fans post here and when respectful for the most part they're treated kindly. Sure, not all of the time, but I'm not gonna blow up another fan just because he likes another team. I will however, blow them up if they come at us with bullshit. Make sense? In other words... "don't start no shit, won't be no shit!"
I dont like all the BS.. and ANY Steeler Fan who has NO Respect for The Sanctity of the Clev - Pgh Rivalry is either Stupid or Young as Hell or a Bandwagoneer.
And I DONT go for antagonizing Browns fans its Classless and Embarassing. I dont do it to Asswipes Like Anteater... he may be a Bitter little Beyotch acting Human being. Who childishly Changed my name even though I am FAR from a Troll Jackass.... But ... I still Respect the Browns History and the History of our Rivalry. Thats why I come here.
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Freak, as I've stated before, you're all right. I'm sure he is a Steelers fan, but who knows. Whatever or whoever he/she is, I cannot stand the arrogance and gloating and the down right disrespect. Show at least a little sportsmanship. If you notice, other fans post here and when respectful for the most part they're treated kindly. Sure, not all of the time, but I'm not gonna blow up another fan just because he likes another team. I will however, blow them up if they come at us with bullshit. Make sense? In other words... "don't start no shit, won't be no shit!"
I dont like all the BS.. and ANY Steeler Fan who has NO Respect for The Sanctity of the Clev - Pgh Rivalry is either Stupid or Young as Hell or a Bandwagoneer.
And I DONT go for antagonizing Browns fans its Classless and Embarassing. I dont do it to Asswipes Like Anteater... he may be a Bitter little Beyotch acting Human being. Who childishly Changed my name even though I am FAR from a Troll Jackass.... But ... I still Respect the Browns History and the History of our Rivalry. Thats why I come here.
I dont like all the BS.. and ANY Steeler Fan who has NO Respect for The Sanctity of the Clev - Pgh Rivalry is either Stupid or Young as Hell or a Bandwagoneer.
And I DONT go for antagonizing Browns fans its Classless and Embarassing. I dont do it to Asswipes Like Anteater... he may be a Bitter little Beyotch acting Human being. But ... I still Respect the Browns History and the History of our Rivalry. Thats why I come here.
If you think about it, a rivalry can NOT be a rivalry unless there is a great degree of mutual respect between the opposing teams/organizations/cities. Some fans may lose sight of that, but what reward would there be by beating a team for which you have no respect. For years with the Browns, since their return, there was little to respect. Traditionally, Cleveland & Pittsburgh teams had always played good old blue collar, smashmouth football (until the Browns came back), which fit these communities to a tee. Now the Browns are reestablishing that style & I expect the rivalry to regain it's old luster.
BTW, thanks for presenting your points very well.
Mike
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I dont like all the BS.. and ANY Steeler Fan who has NO Respect for The Sanctity of the Clev - Pgh Rivalry is either Stupid or Young as Hell or a Bandwagoneer.
And I DONT go for antagonizing Browns fans its Classless and Embarassing. I dont do it to Asswipes Like Anteater... he may be a Bitter little Beyotch acting Human being. But ... I still Respect the Browns History and the History of our Rivalry. Thats why I come here.
If you think about it, a rivalry can NOT be a rivalry unless there is a great degree of mutual respect between the opposing teams/organizations/cities. Some fans may lose sight of that, but what reward would there be by beating a team for which you have no respect. For years with the Browns, since their return, there was little to respect. Traditionally, Cleveland & Pittsburgh teams had always played good old blue collar, smashmouth football (until the Browns came back), which fit these communities to a tee. Now the Browns are reestablishing that style & I expect the rivalry to regain it's old luster.
BTW, thanks for presenting your points very well.
Mike
If you think about it, a rivalry can NOT be a rivalry unless there is a great degree of mutual respect between the opposing teams/organizations/cities. Some fans may lose sight of that, but what reward would there be by beating a team for which you have no respect. For years with the Browns, since their return, there was little to respect. Traditionally, Cleveland & Pittsburgh teams had always played good old blue collar, smashmouth football (until the Browns came back), which fit these communities to a tee. Now the Browns are reestablishing that style & I expect the rivalry to regain it's old luster.
BTW, thanks for presenting your points very well.
Mike
Well I agree with you on this... I grew up with lots of anxiety each time The Steelers Played the Browns , because a Win a Huge and NOT Guaranteed ! After 1999 I still SEE the Brown and Orange and MY Memory is conditioned to think "Oh Damn... Its the Browns" . This is the 1st year since the Return that they REALLY LOOK like a Team on the Edge of becoming relevant again. If McCoy goes out and EVEN Stays IN this game its a Humongous move toward the Browns Goal. I expect a Close one... I really do.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
The old me would swear at you and your Mother. But Your Mother can't speak right now so I won't be unfair to her. Seriously man, we hate your stinking, rat-infested ratbird guts.Of course there is more knowledge over here, We are the epitome of football fans and you guys, really, not being mean, but you are faggots among fans, seriously your team should be called the Blow-two-more polesmokers.
Can you imagine the NFL trying to shove some feces down our throats like The Cleveland Beavers, or the Cleveland Koala's? But you guys? Your team is named after something I just splattered all over my winshield.
You homos were so hard up you would have accepted anything brought to Baltimore. IF they told your team would be called the Baltimore Bowel Movements, you guys would be wearing plastic shit hats at football games and jumping around like village idiots.
Because we are not polesmokers, because the entire NFL feared Cleveland, the organization did an about face and realized the superiority of the Browns fan. You on the other hand got an old fart with a scratched scrotum. He couldn't even deliver you morons a logo that would stick. let alone a name.
I have eaten spoiled food and taken dumps that smell better than the women in that crap hole you call a city.
Does this give you some idea of how we feel? I'll tell you what. I will gladly fistfight any 5 Ravens fans, regardless how long they have been transexuals at next year's Browns-Ravens game in Blow-two-more
This was a long diatribe, wasn't it? How about this.............GTF out of here. That's how I feel, anyway.
So I take it you dont like Baltimore then?
Brilliant, fellow Brownie!!!!!!!!!!!! -
@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Dear UK Browns fan. I apologize to you for being so wishy washy and not making my position on Baltimore more clear. I think in trying to be polite I was a sissy in answering the rat-bird dropping. BUt yes, you are very astute, I don't like Blow-two-more.Not so much because Modell ran there for financial refuge, but instead because they had the money and a plan in place and were too stupid to petition the NFL for a team, WHICH by the way, the NFL had to expand anyway.
The other thing is that she are all bung-hole lovers. Seriously, I want you to remember this if you ever come to the USA for a game. You are a Browns fan and we take care of each other. When you walk around Ratbirn stadium, heir fans will follow you around and spend the entire game trying to stick your nose up your ass.
You see, they have some wierd kinship for us, like we pinched off a loaf and they became our offspring. Now they spend their existence trying to get back into the womb.
Wiat until you hear me go off on the Steeelers.
I feel your pain, I feel the same way about Robert Irsay. But come on, can't we all agree to hate the Steelers? I am a Ratbird (I mean Ravens) fan and I was without NFL football in Baltimore for 13 years. Sure there are some areas where the women are less than sanitary, I'm sure they exist in Cleveland also. The one thing I hated about getting the Ravens was what it did to a fan base that stuck with the team during all of those years, good and bad. You have to admit that you guys were lucky that Paul Tagliabue wanted to bring football back to your area so much. He is a Redskins fan and hated the Colts and Baltimore as much as you guys hate Baltimore and the Ravens now. He went out of his way to make sure that Baltimore wouldn't get another football team through expansion. He even told the Maryland Stadium Authority (the organization that raised money for building new stadiums in Baltimore) they would be better off building a museam for the old Colts. So yes, we wanted NFL football really bad in Baltimore. You don't remember all of the teams that used Baltimore to get better deals where they were located at either, do you? The Cardinals used Baltimore fans to get a better deal from Arizona when they left St. Louis. Malcom Glazer used Baltimore fans to get a better deal from Tampa when he first bought the team, even to the point of hosting a pre-season game in Baltimore saying after he bought the team he was going to move it to Baltimore. Baltimore even had a CFL team that Irsay refused to let use the name Colts, it was a totally different league and wouldn't even give us that. So you can't hate Baltimore just because Modell moved his team for his own greedy desires. Hate Modell if you want, but now the Ravens have new ownership, the Browns records, colors, and history were left in Cleveland and you fans didn't have to wait over a decade for a team to return to your town. Believe me it could have been worse.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Dear UK Browns fan. I apologize to you for being so wishy washy and not making my position on Baltimore more clear. I think in trying to be polite I was a sissy in answering the rat-bird dropping. BUt yes, you are very astute, I don't like Blow-two-more.Not so much because Modell ran there for financial refuge, but instead because they had the money and a plan in place and were too stupid to petition the NFL for a team, WHICH by the way, the NFL had to expand anyway.
The other thing is that she are all bung-hole lovers. Seriously, I want you to remember this if you ever come to the USA for a game. You are a Browns fan and we take care of each other. When you walk around Ratbirn stadium, heir fans will follow you around and spend the entire game trying to stick your nose up your ass.
You see, they have some wierd kinship for us, like we pinched off a loaf and they became our offspring. Now they spend their existence trying to get back into the womb.
Wiat until you hear me go off on the Steeelers.
I feel your pain, I feel the same way about Robert Irsay. But come on, can't we all agree to hate the Steelers? I am a Ratbird (I mean Ravens) fan and I was without NFL football in Baltimore for 13 years. Sure there are some areas where the women are less than sanitary, I'm sure they exist in Cleveland also. The one thing I hated about getting the Ravens was what it did to a fan base that stuck with the team during all of those years, good and bad. You have to admit that you guys were lucky that Paul Tagliabue wanted to bring football back to your area so much. He is a Redskins fan and hated the Colts and Baltimore as much as you guys hate Baltimore and the Ravens now. He went out of his way to make sure that Baltimore wouldn't get another football team through expansion. He even told the Maryland Stadium Authority (the organization that raised money for building new stadiums in Baltimore) they would be better off building a museam for the old Colts. So yes, we wanted NFL football really bad in Baltimore. You don't remember all of the teams that used Baltimore to get better deals where they were located at either, do you? The Cardinals used Baltimore fans to get a better deal from Arizona when they left St. Louis. Malcom Glazer used Baltimore fans to get a better deal from Tampa when he first bought the team, even to the point of hosting a pre-season game in Baltimore saying after he bought the team he was going to move it to Baltimore. Baltimore even had a CFL team that Irsay refused to let use the name Colts, it was a totally different league and wouldn't even give us that. So you can't hate Baltimore just because Modell moved his team for his own greedy desires. Hate Modell if you want, but now the Ravens have new ownership, the Browns records, colors, and history were left in Cleveland and you fans didn't have to wait over a decade for a team to return to your town. Believe me it could have been worse.
I feel your pain, I feel the same way about Robert Irsay. But come on, can't we all agree to hate the Steelers? I am a Ratbird (I mean Ravens) fan and I was without NFL football in Baltimore for 13 years. Sure there are some areas where the women are less than sanitary, I'm sure they exist in Cleveland also. The one thing I hated about getting the Ravens was what it did to a fan base that stuck with the team during all of those years, good and bad. You have to admit that you guys were lucky that Paul Tagliabue wanted to bring football back to your area so much. He is a Redskins fan and hated the Colts and Baltimore as much as you guys hate Baltimore and the Ravens now. He went out of his way to make sure that Baltimore wouldn't get another football team through expansion. He even told the Maryland Stadium Authority (the organization that raised money for building new stadiums in Baltimore) they would be better off building a museam for the old Colts. So yes, we wanted NFL football really bad in Baltimore. You don't remember all of the teams that used Baltimore to get better deals where they were located at either, do you? The Cardinals used Baltimore fans to get a better deal from Arizona when they left St. Louis. Malcom Glazer used Baltimore fans to get a better deal from Tampa when he first bought the team, even to the point of hosting a pre-season game in Baltimore saying after he bought the team he was going to move it to Baltimore. Baltimore even had a CFL team that Irsay refused to let use the name Colts, it was a totally different league and wouldn't even give us that. So you can't hate Baltimore just because Modell moved his team for his own greedy desires. Hate Modell if you want, but now the Ravens have new ownership, the Browns records, colors, and history were left in Cleveland and you fans didn't have to wait over a decade for a team to return to your town. Believe me it could have been worse.
You know, I just realized that I probably wouldn't hate Raven fans or the city of Baltimore as much if they would just call a spade a spade and Modell the Carpet-bagger Asshole he is. What probably gets us riled up is the stupid ass Hall of Fame talk. That SOB should never even be mentioned in the same sentence with the HOF. Thank-God the HOF resides here in football country, or some slimdick suit just might try to sneak that old piece of shit in the back door. It would be one butt-ugly scene if they proped that dead carcass up on a podium in front of the HOF.
Modell is a loser, let him die in his Maryland bed ... but can we hunt down his stupid boy, paint him red-white-and-blue and drop him in an Afghani mountain hotbed?
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Stan, as I stated earlier your long post was right on accurate. My comments about forgiving Art are because the dumbass pissed away the golden goose and needed a bailout which Al Lerner brokered Bmore to do.
As you know, I lived in Arlington, VA for a long time and had season tix to the Baltimore Orioles as part of a consortium.
I was thoroughly disappointed when i would go watch the Indians and Orioles and the fans would make jokes about getting Clevelands football team.
It was like they never remembered their own pain when the Colts left
So, I lost most respect for the Baltimore fans
I usually root against Bmore because I like the Browns, Steelers and Bengals..................
sophisticated fans do such things and also believe Offense Wins Championships
Anyway, thanks for the long post...........and remember Kathy and I manned those fax machines and phone lines bringing the Browns back
Art Modell will never be put in the Hall of Fame.......rightly so..............
but he was a way better owner than the Lerners.........so far
and I am looking forward to our first real QB ever since we brought back the team.........go Colt........
let him play and do not expect too much until he gets his NFL game legs
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That last match of the 1995 season Vs Cincy still hurts me today. Being 3000 miles away and not having internet access at the time
I really thought that was the end of the Browns. It was maybe 12 months later I found out the Browns would keep their name / history / colours
( news about the NFL didnt make the headlines over here) And return to action in 1999 . I was overjoyed!!! , no other fans or city had taken on the
NFL and won, but here we had the people of Cleveland taking on the NFL , and getting THEIR team back.
If Brown & Orange didnt run through my veins before modell's crime, it does now!
So for those dark days between 95-99 and for what they put me ,( YES ME ) through....I hate the Ravens !!!!!!!!!!
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I feel your pain, I feel the same way about Robert Irsay. But come on, can't we all agree to hate the Steelers? I am a Ratbird (I mean Ravens) fan and I was without NFL football in Baltimore for 13 years. Sure there are some areas where the women are less than sanitary, I'm sure they exist in Cleveland also. The one thing I hated about getting the Ravens was what it did to a fan base that stuck with the team during all of those years, good and bad. You have to admit that you guys were lucky that Paul Tagliabue wanted to bring football back to your area so much. He is a Redskins fan and hated the Colts and Baltimore as much as you guys hate Baltimore and the Ravens now. He went out of his way to make sure that Baltimore wouldn't get another football team through expansion. He even told the Maryland Stadium Authority (the organization that raised money for building new stadiums in Baltimore) they would be better off building a museam for the old Colts. So yes, we wanted NFL football really bad in Baltimore. You don't remember all of the teams that used Baltimore to get better deals where they were located at either, do you? The Cardinals used Baltimore fans to get a better deal from Arizona when they left St. Louis. Malcom Glazer used Baltimore fans to get a better deal from Tampa when he first bought the team, even to the point of hosting a pre-season game in Baltimore saying after he bought the team he was going to move it to Baltimore. Baltimore even had a CFL team that Irsay refused to let use the name Colts, it was a totally different league and wouldn't even give us that. So you can't hate Baltimore just because Modell moved his team for his own greedy desires. Hate Modell if you want, but now the Ravens have new ownership, the Browns records, colors, and history were left in Cleveland and you fans didn't have to wait over a decade for a team to return to your town. Believe me it could have been worse.
You know, I just realized that I probably wouldn't hate Raven fans or the city of Baltimore as much if they would just call a spade a spade and Modell the Carpet-bagger Asshole he is. What probably gets us riled up is the stupid ass Hall of Fame talk. That SOB should never even be mentioned in the same sentence with the HOF. Thank-God the HOF resides here in football country, or some slimdick suit just might try to sneak that old piece of shit in the back door. It would be one butt-ugly scene if they proped that dead carcass up on a podium in front of the HOF.
Modell is a loser, let him die in his Maryland bed ... but can we hunt down his stupid boy, paint him red-white-and-blue and drop him in an Afghani mountain hotbed?
You know, I just realized that I probably wouldn't hate Raven fans or the city of Baltimore as much if they would just call a spade a spade and Modell the Carpet-bagger Asshole he is. What probably gets us riled up is the stupid ass Hall of Fame talk. That SOB should never even be mentioned in the same sentence with the HOF. Thank-God the HOF resides here in football country, or some slimdick suit just might try to sneak that old piece of shit in the back door. It would be one butt-ugly scene if they proped that dead carcass up on a podium in front of the HOF.
Modell is a loser, let him die in his Maryland bed ... but can we hunt down his stupid boy, paint him red-white-and-blue and drop him in an Afghani mountain hotbed?
If they ever did put Modell in the HOF it would be most definitly posthumous (after he died). Even if you hate him, he was instrumental in TV revenue sharing, helped start NFL Films, only he and Al Davis voted to keep the Colts from moving to Indianapolis, and if you really don't like Modell then don't watch Monday Night Football since he was the one who pushed for the NFL to play on Monday Nights. Hate him, I understand it, but he did a lot of good things for the NFL.
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I can honestly say that I got the exact response I was expecting. Die hard fans never forget, or forgive for that matter. When the Colts came to town in January of 2007 for the AFC Divisional Playoff, alot of discussion here in town was whether or not, as old Colt fans, we should put the debate to rest once and for all, and "just get over it." I personally can't do it. I hate that horseshoe with as much passion as I had when I used to cheer for them on Sunday afternoons at Memorial Stadium. I have been on the Indy Colts message board, and had the same back and forth conversations with them, in regards to Irsay. With me playing the part of the discarded fan wanting to urinate on his grave. As a football fan, I can see that Modell is to Cleveland, what Irsay is to us, and rightly so. And those sins should never be forgiven.
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I can honestly say that I got the exact response I was expecting. Die hard fans never forget, or forgive for that matter. When the Colts came to town in January of 2007 for the AFC Divisional Playoff, alot of discussion here in town was whether or not, as old Colt fans, we should put the debate to rest once and for all, and "just get over it." I personally can't do it. I hate that horseshoe with as much passion as I had when I used to cheer for them on Sunday afternoons at Memorial Stadium. I have been on the Indy Colts message board, and had the same back and forth conversations with them, in regards to Irsay. With me playing the part of the discarded fan wanting to urinate on his grave. As a football fan, I can see that Modell is to Cleveland, what Irsay is to us, and rightly so. And those sins should never be forgiven.
I can honestly say that I got the exact response I was expecting. Die hard fans never forget, or forgive for that matter. When the Colts came to town in January of 2007 for the AFC Divisional Playoff, alot of discussion here in town was whether or not, as old Colt fans, we should put the debate to rest once and for all, and "just get over it." I personally can't do it. I hate that horseshoe with as much passion as I had when I used to cheer for them on Sunday afternoons at Memorial Stadium. I have been on the Indy Colts message board, and had the same back and forth conversations with them, in regards to Irsay. With me playing the part of the discarded fan wanting to urinate on his grave. As a football fan, I can see that Modell is to Cleveland, what Irsay is to us, and rightly so. And those sins should never be forgiven.
I don't think u hate Irsay as much as we hate Modell, but to each his own.
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IMHO, things such as moving a team aren't done by one SINGLE person. That being said, I harbor great resentment for Baltimore because of...
First some history...As a pro football fan & traditionalist since the mid '50s, I was VERY upset that the Colts (even though I never was a Colt's season long fan) were removed from Baltimore, INCLUDING the name & history. I have always been against the "new" Colts, even at playoff time.
For WHATEVER reason, being Modell, political reasons, etc, our Browns DID move to Baltimore & were welcomed with open arms (even AFTER what was done to them). Our keeping the Brown's name was sort of an afterthought to the "move". Baltimore would NOT have nixed the move had obtaining the Brown's name also been a part of it. In other words, the way I see it, Baltimore did to Cleveland what was done to them & I will carry ill will for that team to my grave.
Just my biased, & possibly uneducated opinion, but I'm stickin' to it.
Mike
IMHO, things such as moving a team aren't done by one SINGLE person. That being said, I harbor great resentment for Baltimore because of...
First some history...As a pro football fan & traditionalist since the mid '50s, I was VERY upset that the Colts (even though I never was a Colt's season long fan) were removed from Baltimore, INCLUDING the name & history. I have always been against the "new" Colts, even at playoff time.
For WHATEVER reason, being Modell, political reasons, etc, our Browns DID move to Baltimore & were welcomed with open arms (even AFTER what was done to them). Our keeping the Brown's name was sort of an afterthought to the "move". Baltimore would NOT have nixed the move had obtaining the Brown's name also been a part of it. In other words, the way I see it, Baltimore did to Cleveland what was done to them & I will carry ill will for that team to my grave.
Just my biased, & possibly uneducated opinion, but I'm stickin' to it.
Mike
A weird fact; Baltimore in a very very broad sense hosed Ohio twice; the NFL Colts started as the Dayton Triangles back in 1913, and after a series of moves and mergers came to Baltimore from Dallas.
I grieved when the original Browns were moved. It just was not right.
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