Head-to-Head Hits & New Rule Discussion
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Formerly Stone said:
I understand that the hard hits is all around the league. The frustration is the non-stop bitching about Harrison's hits which I don't think were illegal, but even if they draw a fine, it's frustrating to try to discuss the issue when someone's only input is Harrison, Harrison, Harrison when in fact TJ Ward made the worst helmet to helmet contact in the entire game.
Really? Where was that?
Are you talking about the Steelers game? I don't recall seeing it on the replays, nor even any announcers pointing it out.
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You support the team who is the poster-child for HGH, so your comments ring hollow.
Now you support the team's star player who is the poster child for rape.
Yet you still come here with the Wholly Art Thy smug attitude. You are paper thin in ethics, please don't try to teach.
Oh really? Wasn't it the CLEVELAND BROWNS who had multiple players connected to HGH doctor Galea? http://www.cleveland-browns-blog.com/cleve...with-dr-an.html
Poster child for rape..... NO CHARGES, let alone convictions. How about Lawrence Taylor, wouldnt he be the rape poster child? Wouldn't Cleveland be the poster child for losing, whining, and staph infections?
Oh really? Wasn't it the CLEVELAND BROWNS who had multiple players connected to HGH doctor Galea? http://www.cleveland-browns-blog.com/cleve...with-dr-an.html
Poster child for rape..... NO CHARGES, let alone convictions. How about Lawrence Taylor, wouldnt he be the rape poster child? Wouldn't Cleveland be the poster child for losing, whining, and staph infections?
Why are you gripping, whining and groaning so bad. Didn't your team win? Can't you handle winning graciously?
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Who cares if he gets fined? I'm shocked to see how many people forget how nasty this rivalry was when it was actually a rivalry. Things like this happened in the first drive in games before the browns moved to Baltimore. I look at all the hits mentioned (harrisons two and Wards) and I say none of them should be flagged. Play football and put up or get beat down.
I look forward to the rivalry getting back to that point someday and it looks like they might actually have a QB worth something. Now just don't get him killed or benched because of staph and you might actually have something to build on.
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Running his mouth probably cost him some more money and possibly a suspension.
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Formerly Stone said:
If I showed you two thousand examples of how Cleveland is a shithole and it's teams suck and it's fans are assholes would you commit suicide? No, of course you wouldn't! Once you open your eyes to the world of football outside Cleveland you will understand that you can find a column or a talk show host to support any angle you may want to bitch about.Look closely at the MoMass hit...........THE xxxxING HELMETS NEVER TOUCHED!
FYI, when Jack Tatum his Daryl Stingley the helmets there didn't touch either. I am not saying that Harrison's hit on MoMass was illegal. I am just saying that if a defender hits a WR with a forearm shiver, that too I believe is illegal.
On TJ Ward's hit against Cincy I do not believe either the helmets touched nor did he hit him with the forearm, only the shoulder, yet that was still called illegal. Thus, helmets hitting is not the only requirement.
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On the Cribbs hit:
"It was definitely a clean hit." - Peyton Hillis
"I thought it was a clean play" - Eric Mangini
On the Cribbs hit:
"It was definitely a clean hit." - Peyton Hillis
"I thought it was a clean play" - Eric Mangini
I guess we'll just need to leave it up to the league to make the determination.
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I'll give you that one...
Now...you admit that Harrison's hit on Massaquoi should've been called a penalty and he's likely to receive a very large fine this week. Which will do nothing to stop him from doing the same thing again unless he and others are suspended (as suggested by Rodney Harrison on the NBC pregame show).
The Cribbs hit to me was 100% legal. That Massaquoi hit was borderline. It could have drawn a penalty and might draw a fine. If I am coaching the team I'd tell players to shy away from hitting a receiver in that position above the chest for fear of drawing a flag. I cant say it was a dirty hit, Massaquoi saw Harrison coming and started to duck, Harrison hit the shoulder first then the head. In that situation you tell your defensive football players to hit the guy as hard as possible to separate him from the ball. Harrison did that. I don't believe he intentionally aimed for the head, you could clearly see Massaquoi starting to duck or slide which brought his head into the strike zone.
Point is, this is football. Hard hits are part of the game. You want to try to avoid hits to the head when possible, but the game is played at a high rate of speed with a lot of aggression and violence, that is what makes it a great game. If you are going to try and smash a player as hard as possible in the chest and he ducks or turns slightly you may end up with a vicious head shot. Should it be fined? I don't think so but I'm sure Goodell will continue to pass out fines for everything.
The Cribbs hit to me was 100% legal. That Massaquoi hit was borderline.
I actually think it is the other way around, primarily because the Cribbs hit was pure helmet on helmet. If that one is not illegal, then apparently there is some confusion about the rule. When is pure helmet to helmet legal and when is it not?
It could have drawn a penalty and might draw a fine. If I am coaching the team I'd tell players to shy away from hitting a receiver in that position above the chest for fear of drawing a flag. I cant say it was a dirty hit, Massaquoi saw Harrison coming and started to duck, Harrison hit the shoulder first then the head. In that situation you tell your defensive football players to hit the guy as hard as possible to separate him from the ball. Harrison did that. I don't believe he intentionally aimed for the head, you could clearly see Massaquoi starting to duck or slide which brought his head into the strike zone.
Point is, this is football. Hard hits are part of the game. You want to try to avoid hits to the head when possible, but the game is played at a high rate of speed with a lot of aggression and violence, that is what makes it a great game. If you are going to try and smash a player as hard as possible in the chest and he ducks or turns slightly you may end up with a vicious head shot. Should it be fined? I don't think so but I'm sure Goodell will continue to pass out fines for everything.
By your statements above then you should probably argue that TJ Ward's hit against Cincy should not have been called or fined. Fair to say?
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I'll give you that one...
Now...you admit that Harrison's hit on Massaquoi should've been called a penalty and he's likely to receive a very large fine this week. Which will do nothing to stop him from doing the same thing again unless he and others are suspended (as suggested by Rodney Harrison on the NBC pregame show).
Our Steeler trolls can defend their boy all they want to. I won't start laughing at them until the fines come out.
BTW, if the Cribbs hit was "clean"- I've watched it several times, and Josh is damn lucky he didn't get his neck broken from the force of that collision.
Speaking of- if Harrison wants to keep leading with his helmet, he'll get little sympathy from elsewhere in the league if on one of those hits he crushes his own spinal column, and winds up in a wheelchair the rest of his life.
Frankly, you trolls are a bunch of hypocrites- if TJ had taken out Hiney and Mendenhall with similar blasts to the head and no penalties called, I guarantee you'd be over here crying like babies about it too.
Our Steeler trolls can defend their boy all they want to. I won't start laughing at them until the fines come out.
BTW, if the Cribbs hit was "clean"- I've watched it several times, and Josh is damn lucky he didn't get his neck broken from the force of that collision.
Speaking of- if Harrison wants to keep leading with his helmet, he'll get little sympathy from elsewhere in the league if on one of those hits he crushes his own spinal column, and winds up in a wheelchair the rest of his life.
That is true. Ultimately it is the defender who is more at risk from spinal damage than the offensive player. The funny thing is the guy went to school only about 3 miles from where I sit. Outside my office is a bar where on the 3rd of each month you see these scooters going in and out with disabled guys who have their little orange and red triangle caution signs on them. They are in the bar spending their social security checks. If that happened to Harrison I might have to start looking for his scooter across the street.:
Frankly, you trolls are a bunch of hypocrites- if TJ had taken out Hiney and Mendenhall with similar blasts to the head and no penalties called, I guarantee you'd be over here crying like babies about it too.
My question is: why didn't he do that? Perhaps he is being cautious?
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Running his mouth probably cost him some more money and possibly a suspension.
Running his mouth probably cost him some more money and possibly a suspension.
ESPN said we should know who gets suspended by the end of the day.
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The NFL needs to throw the "loopholes" out. None of this "defenseless receiver" stuff...the hit on Cribbs was damn near criminal & the ruling should be ANY such hits, regardless what position the victimized player plays. The man didn't even think about involving his arms. Harrison simply made his body a "missile" with his helmet as the warhead.
My hope is that if he's not suspended that Brown's players take care of business next meeting.
In addition, some officials need to have their wallets hit & hit HARD!
Mike
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The NFL needs to throw the "loopholes" out. None of this "defenseless receiver" stuff...the hit on Cribbs was damn near criminal & the ruling should be ANY such hits, regardless what position the victimized player plays. The man didn't even think about involving his arms. Harrison simply made his body a "missile" with his helmet as the warhead.
My hope is that if he's not suspended that Brown's players take care of business next meeting.
In addition, some officials need to have their wallets hit & hit HARD!
Mike
The NFL needs to throw the "loopholes" out. None of this "defenseless receiver" stuff...the hit on Cribbs was damn near criminal & the ruling should be ANY such hits, regardless what position the victimized player plays. The man didn't even think about involving his arms. Harrison simply made his body a "missile" with his helmet as the warhead.
My hope is that if he's not suspended that Brown's players take care of business next meeting.
In addition, some officials need to have their wallets hit & hit HARD!Mike
Agree, but I don't think that anything will happen to the officials. Unfortunately they seem to be untouchable! I mean, if a coach can get fined for calling out officials what would make any of us think that the NFL would do anything about them?
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That hit on Massaquoi was clean......The Cribbs hit was a little more questionable.
If you Steeler fans want to argue "Cribbs was a running back" and exonerate Harrison. OK But to you trolls my DVR fame by frame of the Massaquoi massacre CLEARLY shows Harrison led with his head, it was deliberate, and he's gonna get fined.
If you Steeler fans want to argue "Cribbs was a running back" and exonerate Harrison. OK But to you trolls my DVR fame by frame of the Massaquoi massacre CLEARLY shows Harrison led with his head, it was deliberate, and he's gonna get fined.
Uh, excuse me, but on that play Cribbs was playing Quarterback, not Running back.
Besides, perhaps I am confused by this rule....why does it make a damn bit of difference if you are a RB, QB, WR, TE or a defender returning an interception. Aren't the helmet to helmet hits illegal on everyone?
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In all seriousness, I hope the next time Harrison leads with his helmet and hits someone, that he snaps his own neck and paralyzes his own damn self.
Darn right I said it. And I mean it. I am sick of watching this ape week in and week out do this stuff. It is not just against the Browns. It is a weekly thing for him.
He comes from a thug family, and it be only fitting he acts like this on the field.
It would not make me blink and eye if this happened. Be another shining example to the idiots who want to use their helmet as a missile.
Call me a dick. Call me an ass. I could care less. What goes around comes around. He earned it.
In all seriousness, I hope the next time Harrison leads with his helmet and hits someone, that he snaps his own neck and paralyzes his own damn self.
Darn right I said it. And I mean it. I am sick of watching this ape week in and week out do this stuff. It is not just against the Browns. It is a weekly thing for him.
He comes from a thug family, and it be only fitting he acts like this on the field.
It would not make me blink and eye if this happened. Be another shining example to the idiots who want to use their helmet as a missile.
Call me a dick. Call me an ass. I could care less. What goes around comes around. He earned it.
they can train monkeys to go into outerspace i guess they can train them to get around in a wheelchair.
Looks like it's only the Steelers fans who want to live in denial about the hits by Harrison yesterday
they've been living in denial about Big Ben for years, what's new?
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Formerly Stone said:
Get a good video of the hit, you will see that Harrison didn't use his helmet.Neither did Ward. He didn't even use his forearm. It was all shoulder.
The thing is, these refs seem to be applying these rules in an very arbitrary manner.
Is it a question of which crew is working? Or what?
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Gipper wrote:
I actually think it is the other way around, primarily because the Cribbs hit was pure helmet on helmet. If that one is not illegal, then apparently there is some confusion about the rule. When is pure helmet to helmet legal and when is it not?
By your statements above then you should probably argue that TJ Ward's hit against Cincy should not have been called or fined. Fair to say?
Cribbs was a ballcarrier, not a defenseless receiver. Harrison was coming across the field and earholed him. That was just a hard football play. Hillis and Mangini both said it was a clean hit. So did Lawrence Vickers, who said to Harrison "Hey, man, that’s football, that happens."
As far as TJ Ward, his hit was borderline. (the Shipley hit) By rule Ward's hit on Mendenhall isn't a penalty because like Cribbs he was a ballcarrier. Ward put the crown of his helmet straight into Mendenhall's facemask instead of trying to tackle him. I don't expect a fine or flag for that, but sure it is borderline dirty, borderline hard hit.
Ward's hit on Shipley, he seemed to intentionally rise up to hit him in the head with a shoulder where he could have kept his pad level and blasted him in the chest. That is the only problem I have there. I think a penalty was warranted, not a fine. It wasn't a scenario where both were going full speed and they hit head to head, Ward was stationary and time to level him up, and went upwards to make the hit. Now, if you go back and look at the hit Ryan Clark put on Willis McGahee, Clark just didn't look to see what he was hitting. He ducked his head and lowered his shoulder, McGahee lowered his pads to brace for the hits and both players got rocked, with McGahee taking the worst of the blow.
All I can say is, I like hard hitting football. It is a collision sport played at a high rate of speed and big hits and injuries are bound to happen. As long as a player isn't intentionally going high there should not be a penalty or fine. When you make a big hit you should lead with your shoulders, but the head just so happens to be connected to the shoulders, so naturally heads are going to bang together. I like Hines Ward's solution. If you want to eliminate people hitting with helmets go back to leather helmets with no facemasks.
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You would think the guy's name is Massengil for all the pissing and moaning going on here about a hit in a FOOTBALL GAME!
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Gipper wrote:
I actually think it is the other way around, primarily because the Cribbs hit was pure helmet on helmet. If that one is not illegal, then apparently there is some confusion about the rule. When is pure helmet to helmet legal and when is it not?
By your statements above then you should probably argue that TJ Ward's hit against Cincy should not have been called or fined. Fair to say?
Cribbs was a ballcarrier, not a defenseless receiver. Harrison was coming across the field and earholed him. That was just a hard football play. Hillis and Mangini both said it was a clean hit. So did Lawrence Vickers, who said to Harrison "Hey, man, that’s football, that happens."
As far as TJ Ward, his hit was borderline. (the Shipley hit) By rule Ward's hit on Mendenhall isn't a penalty because like Cribbs he was a ballcarrier. Ward put the crown of his helmet straight into Mendenhall's facemask instead of trying to tackle him. I don't expect a fine or flag for that, but sure it is borderline dirty, borderline hard hit.
Ward's hit on Shipley, he seemed to intentionally rise up to hit him in the head with a shoulder where he could have kept his pad level and blasted him in the chest. That is the only problem I have there. I think a penalty was warranted, not a fine. It wasn't a scenario where both were going full speed and they hit head to head, Ward was stationary and time to level him up, and went upwards to make the hit. Now, if you go back and look at the hit Ryan Clark put on Willis McGahee, Clark just didn't look to see what he was hitting. He ducked his head and lowered his shoulder, McGahee lowered his pads to brace for the hits and both players got rocked, with McGahee taking the worst of the blow.
All I can say is, I like hard hitting football. It is a collision sport played at a high rate of speed and big hits and injuries are bound to happen. As long as a player isn't intentionally going high there should not be a penalty or fine. When you make a big hit you should lead with your shoulders, but the head just so happens to be connected to the shoulders, so naturally heads are going to bang together. I like Hines Ward's solution. If you want to eliminate people hitting with helmets go back to leather helmets with no facemasks.
Cribbs was a ballcarrier, not a defenseless receiver. Harrison was coming across the field and earholed him. That was just a hard football play.
Really, Silverbag?
Check it out, the NFL feels differently:
15 Yards, Automatic First Down for:
# Chop block.
# Clipping below the waist.
# Fair catch interference.
# Illegal crackback block by offense.
# Piling on.
# Roughing the kicker.
# Roughing the passer.
# Twisting, turning, or pulling an opponent by the facemask.
# Unnecessary roughness.
# Unsportsmanlike conduct.
# Delay of game at start of either half.
# Illegal low block.
# A tackler using his helmet to butt, spear, or ram an opponent.
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Harrison deliberately took out Cribbs, who hurt them with the TD's last year, and who would have run a lot of
plays in the WildDawg to take the heat off McCoy.
Then he deliberately took out the Browns leading wr.
and not one flag was thrown in pittstinkburg.
Official(s) have to be on the take or something. The NFL needs to suspend at least one referree now.
Harrison is just another cheap shot artist.
I cannot believe NEITHER flag was thrown.
Harrison needs to be suspended. A fine does nothing.
Harrison deliberately took out Cribbs, who hurt them with the TD's last year, and who would have run a lot of
plays in the WildDawg to take the heat off McCoy.
Then he deliberately took out the Browns leading wr.
and not one flag was thrown in pittstinkburg.
Official(s) have to be on the take or something. The NFL needs to suspend at least one referree now.
Harrison is just another cheap shot artist.
I cannot believe NEITHER flag was thrown.
Harrison needs to be suspended. A fine does nothing.
OK, well then it is time for the Browns to man up and dispense a little of their own street justice.
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Wow ....Really ?? He was Catching a Ball and about to Run down-field with it . Is this not a Contact Sport ?
Whatever. Don't whine when that Bitch "Payback" makes her call. (And I don't even mean that it has to be the Browns that gives her the invitation. It could be any team on your schedule that would ask her in)
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