Head-to-Head Hits & New Rule Discussion
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Gipper wrote:
I actually think it is the other way around, primarily because the Cribbs hit was pure helmet on helmet. If that one is not illegal, then apparently there is some confusion about the rule. When is pure helmet to helmet legal and when is it not?
By your statements above then you should probably argue that TJ Ward's hit against Cincy should not have been called or fined. Fair to say?
Cribbs was a ballcarrier, not a defenseless receiver. Harrison was coming across the field and earholed him. That was just a hard football play. Hillis and Mangini both said it was a clean hit. So did Lawrence Vickers, who said to Harrison "Hey, man, that’s football, that happens."
As far as TJ Ward, his hit was borderline. (the Shipley hit) By rule Ward's hit on Mendenhall isn't a penalty because like Cribbs he was a ballcarrier. Ward put the crown of his helmet straight into Mendenhall's facemask instead of trying to tackle him. I don't expect a fine or flag for that, but sure it is borderline dirty, borderline hard hit.
Ward's hit on Shipley, he seemed to intentionally rise up to hit him in the head with a shoulder where he could have kept his pad level and blasted him in the chest. That is the only problem I have there. I think a penalty was warranted, not a fine. It wasn't a scenario where both were going full speed and they hit head to head, Ward was stationary and time to level him up, and went upwards to make the hit. Now, if you go back and look at the hit Ryan Clark put on Willis McGahee, Clark just didn't look to see what he was hitting. He ducked his head and lowered his shoulder, McGahee lowered his pads to brace for the hits and both players got rocked, with McGahee taking the worst of the blow.
All I can say is, I like hard hitting football. It is a collision sport played at a high rate of speed and big hits and injuries are bound to happen. As long as a player isn't intentionally going high there should not be a penalty or fine. When you make a big hit you should lead with your shoulders, but the head just so happens to be connected to the shoulders, so naturally heads are going to bang together. I like Hines Ward's solution. If you want to eliminate people hitting with helmets go back to leather helmets with no facemasks.
Cribbs was a ballcarrier, not a defenseless receiver. Harrison was coming across the field and earholed him. That was just a hard football play.
Really, Silverbag?
Check it out, the NFL feels differently:
15 Yards, Automatic First Down for:
# Chop block.
# Clipping below the waist.
# Fair catch interference.
# Illegal crackback block by offense.
# Piling on.
# Roughing the kicker.
# Roughing the passer.
# Twisting, turning, or pulling an opponent by the facemask.
# Unnecessary roughness.
# Unsportsmanlike conduct.
# Delay of game at start of either half.
# Illegal low block.
# A tackler using his helmet to butt, spear, or ram an opponent.
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Harrison deliberately took out Cribbs, who hurt them with the TD's last year, and who would have run a lot of
plays in the WildDawg to take the heat off McCoy.
Then he deliberately took out the Browns leading wr.
and not one flag was thrown in pittstinkburg.
Official(s) have to be on the take or something. The NFL needs to suspend at least one referree now.
Harrison is just another cheap shot artist.
I cannot believe NEITHER flag was thrown.
Harrison needs to be suspended. A fine does nothing.
Harrison deliberately took out Cribbs, who hurt them with the TD's last year, and who would have run a lot of
plays in the WildDawg to take the heat off McCoy.
Then he deliberately took out the Browns leading wr.
and not one flag was thrown in pittstinkburg.
Official(s) have to be on the take or something. The NFL needs to suspend at least one referree now.
Harrison is just another cheap shot artist.
I cannot believe NEITHER flag was thrown.
Harrison needs to be suspended. A fine does nothing.
OK, well then it is time for the Browns to man up and dispense a little of their own street justice.
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Wow ....Really ?? He was Catching a Ball and about to Run down-field with it . Is this not a Contact Sport ?
Whatever. Don't whine when that Bitch "Payback" makes her call. (And I don't even mean that it has to be the Browns that gives her the invitation. It could be any team on your schedule that would ask her in)
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You would think the guy's name is Massengil for all the pissing and moaning going on here about a hit in a FOOTBALL GAME!
You would think the guy's name is Massengil for all the pissing and moaning going on here about a hit in a FOOTBALL GAME!
The good thing for you is that you know that when someone goes helmet to helmet on BR and you lose him to concussion it will be no great loss, as you know you can certainly win without him.
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Please stop trying to be stupid. You're stinkin up this forum. Please? @@
Harrison helped anybody up?
Please stop.
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Formerly Stone said:
You just don't get it do you? You guys are the Retards that we are not allowed to kick in real life because that would be wrong. It's fun to kick Retards who keep getting more Retarded with every post, especially when they constantly ask to be left alone to play in their own poop.1. You are the Retard for moaning about others who are angry at the injustice received. Last i heard, fans of teams that win go and celebrate not come.
2. If u could fight us in real life we could bitch slap the shit out of you.
3. So u admit that u only come here to talk trash and not to talk sensible football - ie u admit to being a troll and get offended when people call u one.
4. 'poop' ? really ? and we are the Retard ?
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with the ball carrier rule, as i've said twice now, the bottom line is the rule is that incidental helmet to helmet is fine because he's not defenseless, you're absolutely right. HOWEVER, as was pointed out, if the ref determines the helmet was used to ram spear etc the opponent intentionally, it's a penalty no matter the situation. Harrison's was incidental and shouldn't of been a penalty, i'm right there with you. What i've said all along is that when cribbs stayed down, I'm just surprised in general a late flag didn't come in. Not because of anything other than I've seen that happen several times in the NFL this year.
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Gipper wrote:
I actually think it is the other way around, primarily because the Cribbs hit was pure helmet on helmet. If that one is not illegal, then apparently there is some confusion about the rule. When is pure helmet to helmet legal and when is it not?
By your statements above then you should probably argue that TJ Ward's hit against Cincy should not have been called or fined. Fair to say?
Cribbs was a ballcarrier, not a defenseless receiver. Harrison was coming across the field and earholed him. That was just a hard football play. Hillis and Mangini both said it was a clean hit. So did Lawrence Vickers, who said to Harrison "Hey, man, that’s football, that happens."
As far as TJ Ward, his hit was borderline. (the Shipley hit) By rule Ward's hit on Mendenhall isn't a penalty because like Cribbs he was a ballcarrier. Ward put the crown of his helmet straight into Mendenhall's facemask instead of trying to tackle him. I don't expect a fine or flag for that, but sure it is borderline dirty, borderline hard hit.
Ward's hit on Shipley, he seemed to intentionally rise up to hit him in the head with a shoulder where he could have kept his pad level and blasted him in the chest. That is the only problem I have there. I think a penalty was warranted, not a fine. It wasn't a scenario where both were going full speed and they hit head to head, Ward was stationary and time to level him up, and went upwards to make the hit. Now, if you go back and look at the hit Ryan Clark put on Willis McGahee, Clark just didn't look to see what he was hitting. He ducked his head and lowered his shoulder, McGahee lowered his pads to brace for the hits and both players got rocked, with McGahee taking the worst of the blow.
All I can say is, I like hard hitting football. It is a collision sport played at a high rate of speed and big hits and injuries are bound to happen. As long as a player isn't intentionally going high there should not be a penalty or fine. When you make a big hit you should lead with your shoulders, but the head just so happens to be connected to the shoulders, so naturally heads are going to bang together. I like Hines Ward's solution. If you want to eliminate people hitting with helmets go back to leather helmets with no facemasks.
Gipper wrote:
Cribbs was a ballcarrier, not a defenseless receiver. Harrison was coming across the field and earholed him.
Yes, that is true, though I was not aware that if you are considered a running back that it makes any difference. Are you saying under the rules it does?
Then riddle me this: If a wide receiver has caught a ball, and is running with it down the field and gets 5-10 yard and then is "earholed" by helmet to helmet contact, is that also legal because he was not in the process of catching the ball?
Is the act of catching the ball the significant criteria?
And what if it is a QB scrambling? Josh Cribbs WAS playing QB on that play, though he was running it in the Wilddawg formation. Would it have made a difference if it was Colt McCoy or Ben AngrySheepDog running it on a designed rollout?
Would an "earholing" of them been legitimate under the same circumstances?
That was just a hard football play. Hillis and Mangini both said it was a clean hit. So did Lawrence Vickers, who said to Harrison "Hey, man, that’s football, that happens."
As far as TJ Ward, his hit was borderline. (the Shipley hit) By rule Ward's hit on Mendenhall isn't a penalty because like Cribbs he was a ballcarrier. Ward put the crown of his helmet straight into Mendenhall's facemask instead of trying to tackle him. I don't expect a fine or flag for that, but sure it is borderline dirty, borderline hard hit.
Ward's hit on Shipley, he seemed to intentionally rise up to hit him in the head with a shoulder where he could have kept his pad level and blasted him in the chest. That is the only problem I have there. I think a penalty was warranted, not a fine.
By that then I think Harrison's hit on MoMass was pretty much the same. He had to "Rise Up" to hit MoMass in the head.
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If you Steeler fans want to argue "Cribbs was a running back" and exonerate Harrison. OK But to you trolls my DVR fame by frame of the Massaquoi massacre CLEARLY shows Harrison led with his head, it was deliberate, and he's gonna get fined.
Uh, excuse me, but on that play Cribbs was playing Quarterback, not Running back.
Besides, perhaps I am confused by this rule....why does it make a damn bit of difference if you are a RB, QB, WR, TE or a defender returning an interception. Aren't the helmet to helmet hits illegal on everyone?
Uh, excuse me, but on that play Cribbs was playing Quarterback, not Running back.
Besides, perhaps I am confused by this rule....why does it make a damn bit of difference if you are a RB, QB, WR, TE or a defender returning an interception. Aren't the helmet to helmet hits illegal on everyone
?no he was playing single wing Tail back.............not Quarterback.....single wing Tailback is modern day running back....(er for all those who think football was invented yesterday, the Tailback in the Single Wing is the WildDawg back now renamed)....you are wrong on this one
furthermore, all the ball carriet has to do is lower his helmet to get a personal foul in the case you presented............
just lower and spear the defender and you get an additional fifteen......I hope someone has thought beyond this.......but in the NFL maybe that is too hard category
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That's my point, donger......they dont like each other.
Holy sh*t SuperSteelers, my wife's entire family is from New Lex. I just noticed your hometown in your posts.
More than likely they know you or your family.
What happened to you? That is serious Browns country...
I'm the opposite. My dad worked for Wheeling-Pittsburgh Steel for 30 years. Yep, cases of Iron Shitty in the fridge with Steelers all over it. Our HS football team used to go to Steeler camp for a visit each year.
Didn't work on me though! Go Browns!
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Maybe he took a page out of habitual ball grabber, Shawn Smith's playbook.
PITTSBURGH (AP)—Steelers linebacker James Harrison(notes) states his objective matter-of-factly: He’s out to hurt any opposing player who roams into his vicinity.
If he sees players down on the turf—as he did Sunday when he sidelined Browns wide receivers Joshua Cribbs(notes) and Mohamed Massaquoi(notes) with punishing hits only minutes apart during the second quarter—he feels as if he’s done his job.
Harrison said he doesn’t want to put any player out of a game or jeopardize his career. The former AP Defensive Player of the Year also realizes it can be difficult to draw a line between merely hurting a player and badly injuring him as plays take place at full speed and hits are delivered with little time to consider the consequences.
Luck is Tim Couch. Big, Dumb Goofy, slow thinking QB - Ghoolie, 2-28-12 -
One of the few that plays the game the way it was intended.....Turkey Joness would be ashamed of all this crying
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Maybe he took a page out of habitual ball grabber, Shawn Smith's playbook.
PITTSBURGH (AP)—Steelers linebacker James Harrison(notes) states his objective matter-of-factly: He’s out to hurt any opposing player who roams into his vicinity.
If he sees players down on the turf—as he did Sunday when he sidelined Browns wide receivers Joshua Cribbs(notes) and Mohamed Massaquoi(notes) with punishing hits only minutes apart during the second quarter—he feels as if he’s done his job.
Harrison said he doesn’t want to put any player out of a game or jeopardize his career. The former AP Defensive Player of the Year also realizes it can be difficult to draw a line between merely hurting a player and badly injuring him as plays take place at full speed and hits are delivered with little time to consider the consequences.
Maybe he took a page out of habitual ball grabber, Shawn Smith's playbook.
PITTSBURGH (AP)—Steelers linebacker James Harrison(notes) states his objective matter-of-factly: He's out to hurt any opposing player who roams into his vicinity.
If he sees players down on the turf—as he did Sunday when he sidelined Browns wide receivers Joshua Cribbs(notes) and Mohamed Massaquoi(notes) with punishing hits only minutes apart during the second quarter—he feels as if he's done his job.
Harrison said he doesn't want to put any player out of a game or jeopardize his career. The former AP Defensive Player of the Year also realizes it can be difficult to draw a line between merely hurting a player and badly injuring him as plays take place at full speed and hits are delivered with little time to consider the consequences.
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Whining is so disgusting.........NICE WHINING POST.....if we had Harrison which we could have sans sewage.............you would be praising his intimidation.......meanwhile his hits are were not against upright people rather against head down ball toters..........sumtimes whining is stupid this time it is
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One of the few that plays the game the way it was intended.....Turkey Joness would be ashamed of all this crying
One of the few that plays the game the way it was intended.....Turkey Joness would be ashamed of all this crying
I won't bitch about the Cribbs hit because I figure the league will decide whether it was legal. I can see the debatability of that play. The Massaquoi hit was the definition of illegal. That said, I think many players go all out and make plays. They may fall on the illegal side of things without that necessarily being out of the intent to be outside the bounds of legal play.
James Harrison's comments suggest, however, that he is on the illegal side of that coin and wants to be there. In an age where the league is trying to protect players (including Harrison) it's particularly insensitive to beat your chest in the media with gorilla-like bravado. What's worse is that in his puny mind, he thinks that since Cribbs was unconscious ('asleep' in his words) that the hit was somehow "ok" or less severe.
Helloooo, MCFLY!!! When you lose consciousness after head trauma....it's not a good thing! Dr. Harrison! That's a Grade III concussion per the Colorado Guidelines and the AAN Guidelines (That's the worst kind). Josh Cribbs didn't decide to take a nap on the field and it's not alright.
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Formerly Stone said:
NICE HIT!We really don't care that you do roids and give head
At least you are consistent when speaking about the steelers and browns fans
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They hardly ever call a helmet to helmet penalty against Pissburgh. That ape wont even get fined.
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He really is a nice guy.
That was in retaliation to the Cardinals player diving at Harrison's knees. Keep hating though. Browns fans would kill for a player like Harrison. Right now their defense is as soft as they come.
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on espn's 'Around The Horn' they suggested players commiting these flagrant type of hits (even if not penalized) should be ejected from the game and automatically suspended from 2-4 games. they also called harrison a headhunter and that the league is looking for a way to weed out such miscreants while weighing the violence of the game vs. player safety.
SEE YA HARRISON, YOU BIG FLIPPIN' GOON!!!!
BTW: turkey jones would have suspended a year and fined out the ying yang if he did such a thing in today's nfl. and there would be no argument with that here.
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Maybe he took a page out of habitual ball grabber, Shawn Smith's playbook.
PITTSBURGH (AP)—Steelers linebacker James Harrison(notes) states his objective matter-of-factly: He’s out to hurt any opposing player who roams into his vicinity.
If he sees players down on the turf—as he did Sunday when he sidelined Browns wide receivers Joshua Cribbs(notes) and Mohamed Massaquoi(notes) with punishing hits only minutes apart during the second quarter—he feels as if he’s done his job.
Harrison said he doesn’t want to put any player out of a game or jeopardize his career. The former AP Defensive Player of the Year also realizes it can be difficult to draw a line between merely hurting a player and badly injuring him as plays take place at full speed and hits are delivered with little time to consider the consequences.
Maybe he took a page out of habitual ball grabber, Shawn Smith's playbook.
PITTSBURGH (AP)—Steelers linebacker James Harrison(notes) states his objective matter-of-factly: He's out to hurt any opposing player who roams into his vicinity.
If he sees players down on the turf—as he did Sunday when he sidelined Browns wide receivers Joshua Cribbs(notes) and Mohamed Massaquoi(notes) with punishing hits only minutes apart during the second quarter—he feels as if he's done his job.
Harrison said he doesn't want to put any player out of a game or jeopardize his career. The former AP Defensive Player of the Year also realizes it can be difficult to draw a line between merely hurting a player and badly injuring him as plays take place at full speed and hits are delivered with little time to consider the consequences.
We own the DAWG POUND.......punish on D.....and now we get this pussy posts about others are hitting too hard..........do we want a dawg pound or pussy pound........you cannot have it both ways.........lets take the pick
me I am for Offense wins Championships and silencing dawg pound pussies
IAM PRETTY SICK OF THE DAWG POUNDS OF DEFENSE PISSING THEIR PANTS THAT THE STEELERS HIT US TOO HARD
Offense Wins.......Franchise QB's are the key.............Defense keeps you in the game.........Go Buckeyes
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