Floyd Reese for GM?
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I'll join the Tupa-Shep coalition on this one.
About the draft choices: Eugene Amano wasn't a starter until this year, his 5th season. He only won the starting job because the guy in front of him, Jacob Bell, signed a big contract elsewhere.
And McCareins left, came back as a cheap FA, and is on pace for 25 catches this year. Syndric Steptoe's on pace for 23 with far less playing time - maybe Phil should get some credit for that.
Also, what Tupa said about Reese's more recent Day One picks - yikes.
And if you're going to give him credit for free agents he brought in, you should also consider how he wrecked the Titans' cap, resulting in them having to cut a lot of big-name veterans in '04 and '05. The contract he gave to Pacman Jones also was a mess.
Ultimately, the Titans' ownership decided to bounce Reese because Jeff Fisher wanted him gone. They recognized who deserved the credit for building the team & who deserved most of the blame.
I can understand wanting to replace Savage, but bringing in Reese wouldn't be an improvement.
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How is anyone having an FA discussion without mentioning Shaun "Big Baby" Rogers. The guy is a beast.
Steinbach? Studbach.
Jamal Lewis was a monster last season (and would be this season if we had a coach that utilized an aging monster-truck properly - e.g. you don't expect it to perform on the AutoBahn, but it can pull your neighbor's house off the foundations if necessary).
Hank Fraley? He's getting pushed around a lot more this season, but a damn solid center.
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He is a better choice than sewage as a gm..but who isnt a better choice besides anyone from within the browns organization.
He is a better choice than sewage as a gm..but who isnt a better choice besides anyone from within the browns organization.
that's ridiculous Gips. beginning from Savage's "sign good locker room/good character guy's" mentality the FA's available out there have been thin.....and savage has consistently lured the best available here every year.how easily we forget the '05 6-10 season was a half-a-pussy-hair shy of being 8-8, (some might even say 9-7).....and that was with Frye! (and Dilfer)
sure, the '06 season was god awful but what team isn't with basically a rookie QB at the helm?
so while i can see the 3 losing seasons out of 4 scenario there's a little more to it. last year--easy schedule or not--the Browns were a legitimate winning team, as i've said elsewhere a short field goal, a made yet rekicked field goal that got blocked, and an inbounds foot from a 13-3 record in '07. they weren't even on the bubble last year.
this year's D kept us in every game. add robaire smith and antwaan peek and we are sitting where the Stillers are. if we had half the points from last year.......this topic wouldn't exist. add back in a 100% Joe J, even a 50% Donte S, R. Tucker, and a QB and the Browns can beat anybody in the NFL. tell me they can't. problem is they have zero depth. it's a beautiful thing. the Browns can't survive an injury to ANY position. and that's the difference.
i reaffirm it will be until the future starters replace the current starting line-up before the Browns are consistent winners. when our depth is the current starters the Browns will win and they won't go away.
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Sony, anybody can sign the pacmans, the vicks, the youngs etc. Savage didn't just attempt to draft BPA...it wasn't black and white like that.
and that center you point out.....didn't he cheapshot the hell out of Wimbley just this week?!? that's exactly what i'm talking about. to savage's credit, he's attempting to build something you can look at and be proud of. and i mean really look at. kids especially.
maybe that takes 5 years to really see, not just 4. to do it w/ high character guys maybe it takes 6?
he broke the mold w/ that philosophy, far as i can tell. did he petition us and ask if that's the way we wanted it? certainly not but we're 4 years into this thing and blowing it up will certainly set them back. i consider it like being married. have they exhausted all efforts to right this thing? i doubt they've even been to couples counseling yet. i think you know who i'm talking about.
can you even evaluate a team or it's staff when 9 starters are on IR? with no depth behind them to speak of?
so basically i'm supposed to be pissed we don't have 22 starters to play against the best schedule the Browns have played in a grip.
subtract 9 starters you need to replace, so it's actually not 22 guys but 31 elite players rotating around out there? in year 4? plus special teams, w/ cribbs hurt the 1st qtr of the season and lennie gone?
that's pretty high expectations. that's like expecting syndric "tall ball" steptoe to replace joe jurivicius. yikes!
my intent is not to defend the guy but you only pointed to half the story. it's not really fair to compare a guy in year 4 vs. a guy after year # 13.
there's still hope out there for these 2nd day guys using the "Reese" model:
'06 brought harrison, sowells, vickers, and leon williams--this is now year 3, there's still time to outshine reese here.
'07 brought brandon mcdonald and steptoe. say what you will about b-mac--find a team thin at DB and this guy starts on a lot of them. and for a 5'9" guy step plays as hard as many starters around the league.
'08 brought rucker and hall-- a 7th rounder splitting time at lolb his rookie year? both are probable future starters.
and that 2nd day for year 3, 2, and 1. all good guys. even that dipshit K2. look at his poise-just-today.
is the grass always greener?
through gritted teeth............i give them all another year. Phil, Romeo, all of 'em. even you, Chud. i've been back and forth, back and forth.....
there's just too many intangibles.
i'm ok w/ just one more. but that's it.
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Great posts Fringo, except I can't see giving RAC another year. We know what we've got with him. Not trying to turn this into a you know who vs. you know who thread, but it would be like giving you know who a chance to start again, creating another "competition" in the offseason. We know what we've got with you know who and we've had a season & a half of evidence in our own organization, plus his HS & college scouting reports that all say the same thing. Decision made.
I'm of the camp that thinks Savage has brought in a stable of talent through the draft & FA. I wouldn't mind bringing in a VP of FB Ops. though to handle the dog& pony crap that has been Savage's weak spot. A more energetic coach or a proven winner is a must. A new fiery DC is a must (give Tucker his DB job back - those guys would benefit with him back there I think) if we bring in the proven winner model of coach *cough* MARTY *cough*.
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Great posts Fringo, except I can't see giving RAC another year. We know what we've got with him. Not trying to turn this into a you know who vs. you know who thread, but it would be like giving you know who a chance to start again, creating another "competition" in the offseason. We know what we've got with you know who and we've had a season & a half of evidence in our own organization, plus his HS & college scouting reports that all say the same thing. Decision made.
I'm of the camp that thinks Savage has brought in a stable of talent through the draft & FA. I wouldn't mind bringing in a VP of FB Ops. though to handle the dog& pony crap that has been Savage's weak spot. A more energetic coach or a proven winner is a must. A new fiery DC is a must (give Tucker his DB job back - those guys would benefit with him back there I think) if we bring in the proven winner model of coach *cough* MARTY *cough*.
Great posts Fringo, except I can't see giving RAC another year. We know what we've got with him. Not trying to turn this into a you know who vs. you know who thread, but it would be like giving you know who a chance to start again, creating another "competition" in the offseason. We know what we've got with you know who and we've had a season & a half of evidence in our own organization, plus his HS & college scouting reports that all say the same thing. Decision made.
I'm of the camp that thinks Savage has brought in a stable of talent through the draft & FA. I wouldn't mind bringing in a VP of FB Ops. though to handle the dog& pony crap that has been Savage's weak spot. A more energetic coach or a proven winner is a must. A new fiery DC is a must (give Tucker his DB job back - those guys would benefit with him back there I think) if we bring in the proven winner model of coach *cough* MARTY *cough*.
i hear ya Leg. i been saying the same thing myself but this past week or so i flipped, again, maybe for good this time! once emotion was out of it for me i settled down and began to see some positives again. which i hadn't in a while.
as far as savages picks......yeah. i agree. and he might still have a sleeper or two. we could certainly do a lot worse.
as far as rac, where to begin. all i want to add is that the players are really playing hardfor him--that's a big deal. i know that everyone is supposed to play hard cuz they're paid etc but they don't. a guy they like and respect seems to make a difference for them. maybe some brow-beating micro-manager could get more out of these guys than he does on the surface, but he pulls heart out of that D.
we are not losing this year because of the D though. it's FINALLY coming together. FINALLY! teams put up numbers against them but somehow this D stops them when it counts. holding teams on this schedule to 22 points is damn good imho. even if they are 28th against the run etc.
because they will play for him and if he stays this will be one more chapter they've been through together that makes Romeo's intangible's all the more. and sure he's blown challenges and clock management time and time again BUT he's consistently gotten better at all of it. after enduring this guy learning on the job for 4 years he's finally getting it. and again, the players adore him. well, the defensive players. listen to me? what am i saying?!? there's just something about this guy i can't be mad at.
who knows, maybe it's Chud? aside from what i mentioned in the previous paragraph that RAC has improved upon, what else does the H.C. do?
Cowher will still be hanging out in 2010. i'm sure there will be GM's to interview too if it doesn't pan out.
i've weighed it all for weeks and i just keep thinking we're 4 years in. just one more?
what if the Browns had no history and the very first year ever was 2006? would you still dump them then?
really i should just say Phil since it's the GM thread, but both are the hot topic afterall.
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Fire RAC as a HC and rehire him as a D ... we know that is his forte !
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yeah JADBF his game mgt has been atrocious at times. i totally agree. but the players consistently defend his preparation. i felt they were VERY prepared for the colts, giants, bills, jags, and many others.@jadbf said:
You know Sisky.......As much as I have been argueing that Romeo needs to go. You do make some valid points. Especially when you start to talk about the injuries and things that make it unfair to fully judge the talent Savage has brought to this team. Those same things can be used in defense of Romeo.
But I still go back to his preparation and decision making as being too supsect for me. From the day he FLIPPED A FREAKING COIN to decide whether Frye or Anderson should start, I was pretty much against him. Add to that his recluctance to play younger guys and allow them to develop. and finally his poor clock decision skills. And I still think there needs to be a change there.
and they have later debunked the coin thing i thought--it was just a joke on the media and us. i don't like that he was playing games with us but the players seemed to get the joke and never complained that i could see.
reluctance to play younger guys--i agree. but maybe the problem involved phil or chud? i still have many unanswered questions.
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Fire RAC as a HC and rehire him as a D ... we know that is his forte !
I wouldn't mind that at all. He was a coordinator in New England, and maybe while being a good coordinator, he just isn't head coach material. I think he'd work very well with a coach like Cowher or Marty, especially if we then put Tucker back at DB's coach.
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