Jets fan worried
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The reason why the media is in love with the Jets is because they made it to the AFC Championship game (doesn't matter how they got there), they signed great players, they were on Hard Knocks, and they're 6-2 and in 1st place in the AFC East. They deserve to be getting the attention. Also I don't think Tomlinson is a "talented asshat." He's an aging hall of fame running back that has found the fountain of youth, for the first half of the season at least. Holmes and Jason Taylor...yea they're asshats lol.
I've been there with Mangini. After his 1st year, everyone here adored him...loved him. He was even given a cameo on The Sopranos. But after that, the team just quit on him. He couldn't handle NY. That's why he was fired. Maybe it's different in Cleveland, we'll see after a few years. Hopefully he guys makes you guys into contenders again. It's a good thing for the NFL if the Browns are good again.
The Jets have been seeking media attention and have been getting it ever since Rex was hired. They lobbied hard to get on Hard Knocks, acquired high profile player regardless of character, and Rex is a one man show by himself. Can you blame the Jets for craving attention having played second fiddle to the Giants for all these years and with all those unsold PSLs? They needed to generate excitement (or at the very least intrigue) somehow.
A team that quit on their HC doesn’t start off 8-3. Even during the 4-12 season, the team played hard until the end in my eyes. They quit on Mangini during the actual collapse and I suspect it has something to do with the way Mangini handled Favre. You can’t sell the team concept when Favre, in his own office disconnected from the rest of the players, are sending pictures of his weewee to female Jet employees.
The Jets have been seeking media attention and have been getting it ever since Rex was hired. They lobbied hard to get on Hard Knocks, acquired high profile player regardless of character, and Rex is a one man show by himself. Can you blame the Jets for craving attention having played second fiddle to the Giants for all these years and with all those unsold PSLs? They needed to generate excitement (or at the very least intrigue) somehow.
A team that quit on their HC doesn’t start off 8-3. Even during the 4-12 season, the team played hard until the end in my eyes. They quit on Mangini during the actual collapse and I suspect it has something to do with the way Mangini handled Favre. You can’t sell the team concept when Favre, in his own office disconnected from the rest of the players, are sending pictures of his weewee to female Jet employees.
FYI, I do NOT believe that out here in the real world that the Jets have been second fiddle to the Giants. I understand that the Giants have had their success compared to the Jets, but to us in America beyond the Hudson the Jets and Giants are Tweedledee and Tweedledum. Maybe that is all different inside the NYC metro area, but not out here. We all feel the Jets and Giants have a pretty equal "celebrity" status if you will.
As for the "quitting on the team" factor, if the Jets quit and now if the Vikings seem to be quitting.....what is the common denominator? It ain't Eric Mangini
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why would you outwardly express wanting the Browns to do the Steelers or Ravens a favor? if they win, sure it will but to word it like that is very odd to me. how would that change anything, except to fantasy football fans? those teams will certainly play to win regardless.
I don't really want them to do the Steelers or Ravens a favor. I am simply acknowledging the fact that if the Browns win it WILL be a favor to the Steelers and Ravens.
Let's put it this way: hopefully the Ratbirds will lose to the Dirty Birds tonight and the Steelers will lose to the Pats on Sunday and the Browns beat the Jets. Then we would all be happy, right? Except Raven, Steeler, and Jet fans.....but who cares about them. The big winner in that scenario.....aside from the Browns....would be the Pats. They would then be re-slotted into the #1 AFC seed spot.
I don't really want them to do the Steelers or Ravens a favor. I am simply acknowledging the fact that if the Browns win it WILL be a favor to the Steelers and Ravens.
Let's put it this way: hopefully the Ratbirds will lose to the Dirty Birds tonight and the Steelers will lose to the Pats on Sunday and the Browns beat the Jets. Then we would all be happy, right? Except Raven, Steeler, and Jet fans.....but who cares about them. The big winner in that scenario.....aside from the Browns....would be the Pats. They would then be re-slotted into the #1 AFC seed spot.
Actually if you win adn we win we are #1 slot again as we bet the ravens already this year.(So go Browns!!!!)
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I don't really want them to do the Steelers or Ravens a favor. I am simply acknowledging the fact that if the Browns win it WILL be a favor to the Steelers and Ravens.
Let's put it this way: hopefully the Ratbirds will lose to the Dirty Birds tonight and the Steelers will lose to the Pats on Sunday and the Browns beat the Jets. Then we would all be happy, right? Except Raven, Steeler, and Jet fans.....but who cares about them. The big winner in that scenario.....aside from the Browns....would be the Pats. They would then be re-slotted into the #1 AFC seed spot.
Actually if you win adn we win we are #1 slot again as we bet the ravens already this year.(So go Browns!!!!)
Actually if you win adn we win we are #1 slot again as we bet the ravens already this year.(So go Browns!!!!)
See my thread entitled If the playoffs started today?
Currently the Ravens have the top spot because: 1. They beat the Jets who have the same 6-2 record and 2. they beat the Steelers who have the same 6-2 record. The Ravens have the advantage over the Pats even though the Pats beat them and even though the Pats have the same 6-2 record....because, the Pats are not leading their own division due to their loss to the Jets in their one meeting.
If the Browns beat the Jets and the Pats beat the Steelers ....and if the Ravens win tonight, yes, I believe you are right. That would then put the Pats back on top of the AFC East, and it would then be that only the Pats and Ravens would carry a 7-2 record in the AFC, and by virtue of the Pats win over the Ravens they would claim the #1 seed. Yes.
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The Jets have been seeking media attention and have been getting it ever since Rex was hired. They lobbied hard to get on Hard Knocks, acquired high profile player regardless of character, and Rex is a one man show by himself. Can you blame the Jets for craving attention having played second fiddle to the Giants for all these years and with all those unsold PSLs? They needed to generate excitement (or at the very least intrigue) somehow.
A team that quit on their HC doesn’t start off 8-3. Even during the 4-12 season, the team played hard until the end in my eyes. They quit on Mangini during the actual collapse and I suspect it has something to do with the way Mangini handled Favre. You can’t sell the team concept when Favre, in his own office disconnected from the rest of the players, are sending pictures of his weewee to female Jet employees.
FYI, I do NOT believe that out here in the real world that the Jets have been second fiddle to the Giants. I understand that the Giants have had their success compared to the Jets, but to us in America beyond the Hudson the Jets and Giants are Tweedledee and Tweedledum. Maybe that is all different inside the NYC metro area, but not out here. We all feel the Jets and Giants have a pretty equal "celebrity" status if you will.
As for the "quitting on the team" factor, if the Jets quit and now if the Vikings seem to be quitting.....what is the common denominator? It ain't Eric Mangini
FYI, I do NOT believe that out here in the real world that the Jets have been second fiddle to the Giants. I understand that the Giants have had their success compared to the Jets, but to us in America beyond the Hudson the Jets and Giants are Tweedledee and Tweedledum. Maybe that is all different inside the NYC metro area, but not out here. We all feel the Jets and Giants have a pretty equal "celebrity" status if you will.
As for the "quitting on the team" factor, if the Jets quit and now if the Vikings seem to be quitting.....what is the common denominator? It ain't Eric Mangini
So what you are saying is that people outside of the tri-state area don't differentiate between the Giants or the Jets and that we're just @sshole teams from NY that play in NJ?
I guess that's a bit comforting to know. Things may have shifted abit recently but within NYC, the Jets have always been the bastard child. Besides the ineptitude and numerous heartbreaking moments, the Jets have always been ridiculed for playing their home games at the Giants Stadium.There was a great article in the WSJ right before the start of the season that gives a good idea of how the Jets were perceived. Very sarcastic and funny.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405...0523646204.html
Evidence of incompetence is here:
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Stan, it is taking EVERY ounce of energy for me not to dehumanize this Jet's Guy, So here is a suggestion for all........ think of every expletive you can, add to it the most disgusting things you can think about this guy's mom, dad and sisters, include insults about his schlong, accuse him of being a polesmoker, and finalize it by throwing insults about him masturbating in front of Donut shops................and then realize that's what I really wanted to post to this Jets fan.
Just ignore him on your user settings.
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Formerly Stone said:
This is a tough one!The Jets pose some competition for the Steelers playoff seeding so I want to see the Jets lose every week but if the Browns win three in a row it will be intolerable around here
The Jets are highly over-rated and I can see the Browns handling them!
Why are they highly overated, because they don't crush everyone?
There's not a bad team in the league except Carolina. Almost all games in the NFL can go either way in the 4th quarter. Good teams win them and bad teams lose them. The Jets made the AFC title game and are 6-2. The Browns are excited because they've had two big wins since the playoff loss to the Steelers. I can understand being desperate, but let's see how your team does when all of a sudden the playoffs are on the line and the pressure is on. Can the Browns be like the Jets and win two playoff games on the road? Then you can talk.
The Ravens are always in close games. Steelers too. So are the Jets. They win them and the Browns lose them
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Browns win this weekend. Any road game except Carolina is a hard game.
Act like you've been here before son.
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I don't really want them to do the Steelers or Ravens a favor. I am simply acknowledging the fact that if the Browns win it WILL be a favor to the Steelers and Ravens.
Let's put it this way: hopefully the Ratbirds will lose to the Dirty Birds tonight and the Steelers will lose to the Pats on Sunday and the Browns beat the Jets. Then we would all be happy, right? Except Raven, Steeler, and Jet fans.....but who cares about them. The big winner in that scenario.....aside from the Browns....would be the Pats. They would then be re-slotted into the #1 AFC seed spot.
Actually if you win adn we win we are #1 slot again as we bet the ravens already this year.(So go Browns!!!!)
Actually if you win adn we win we are #1 slot again as we bet the ravens already this year.(So go Browns!!!!)
Only thing is you aren't going to win, and this will be the game that pushes Tiny Canadian Pussy Douche over the edge as he's knocked around once too often. He may retire and realize his dream of opening a gay bar.
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Formerly Stone said:
This is a tough one!The Jets pose some competition for the Steelers playoff seeding so I want to see the Jets lose every week but if the Browns win three in a row it will be intolerable around here
The Jets are highly over-rated and I can see the Browns handling them!
Why are they highly overated, because they don't crush everyone?
There's not a bad team in the league except Carolina. Almost all games in the NFL can go either way in the 4th quarter. Good teams win them and bad teams lose them. The Jets made the AFC title game and are 6-2. The Browns are excited because they've had two big wins since the playoff loss to the Steelers. I can understand being desperate, but let's see how your team does when all of a sudden the playoffs are on the line and the pressure is on. Can the Browns be like the Jets and win two playoff games on the road? Then you can talk.
The Ravens are always in close games. Steelers too. So are the Jets. They win them and the Browns lose them
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Browns win this weekend. Any road game except Carolina is a hard game.
Act like you've been here before son.
Why are they highly overated, because they don't crush everyone?
There's not a bad team in the league except Carolina. Almost all games in the NFL can go either way in the 4th quarter. Good teams win them and bad teams lose them. The Jets made the AFC title game and are 6-2. The Browns are excited because they've had two big wins since the playoff loss to the Steelers. I can understand being desperate, but let's see how your team does when all of a sudden the playoffs are on the line and the pressure is on. Can the Browns be like the Jets and win two playoff games on the road? Then you can talk.
The Ravens are always in close games. Steelers too. So are the Jets. They win them and the Browns lose them
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Browns win this weekend. Any road game except Carolina is a hard game.
Act like you've been here before son.
Just so you know, forlornly stoner is a steeler fan, with browns envy.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Stan, it is taking EVERY ounce of energy for me not to dehumanize this Jet's Guy, So here is a suggestion for all........ think of every expletive you can, add to it the most disgusting things you can think about this guy's mom, dad and sisters, include insults about his schlong, accuse him of being a polesmoker, and finalize it by throwing insults about him masturbating in front of Donut shops................and then realize that's what I really wanted to post to this Jets fan.
Just ignore him on your user settings.
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FYI, I do NOT believe that out here in the real world that the Jets have been second fiddle to the Giants. I understand that the Giants have had their success compared to the Jets, but to us in America beyond the Hudson the Jets and Giants are Tweedledee and Tweedledum. Maybe that is all different inside the NYC metro area, but not out here. We all feel the Jets and Giants have a pretty equal "celebrity" status if you will.
As for the "quitting on the team" factor, if the Jets quit and now if the Vikings seem to be quitting.....what is the common denominator? It ain't Eric Mangini
So what you are saying is that people outside of the tri-state area don't differentiate between the Giants or the Jets and that we're just @sshole teams from NY that play in NJ?
I guess that's a bit comforting to know. Things may have shifted abit recently but within NYC, the Jets have always been the bastard child. Besides the ineptitude and numerous heartbreaking moments, the Jets have always been ridiculed for playing their home games at the Giants Stadium.There was a great article in the WSJ right before the start of the season that gives a good idea of how the Jets were perceived. Very sarcastic and funny.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405...0523646204.html
Evidence of incompetence is here:
So what you are saying is that people outside of the tri-state area don't differentiate between the Giants or the Jets and that we're just @sshole teams from NY that play in NJ?
I guess that's a bit comforting to know. Things may have shifted abit recently but within NYC, the Jets have always been the bastard child. Besides the ineptitude and numerous heartbreaking moments, the Jets have always been ridiculed for playing their home games at the Giants Stadium.
There was a great article in the WSJ right before the start of the season that gives a good idea of how the Jets were perceived. Very sarcastic and funny.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405...0523646204.html
Evidence of incompetence is here:
The bold part above, yes, is absolutely true. In my opinion , out here beyond the Pale, the Jets actually have a more flamboyant image going back of course to Joe Namath. For a while with Lawrence Taylor the Giants may have taken some of that thunder, but for the most part I think people think of the Giants as "the establishment" team from NYC, i.e. the boring, stale, white bread team. The Jets were the more rebellious bunch. Like I said, thank Namath for that.
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Actually if you win adn we win we are #1 slot again as we bet the ravens already this year.(So go Browns!!!!)
Only thing is you aren't going to win, and this will be the game that pushes Tiny Canadian Pussy Douche over the edge as he's knocked around once too often. He may retire and realize his dream of opening a gay bar.
Only thing is you aren't going to win, and this will be the game that pushes Tiny Canadian Pussy Douche over the edge as he's knocked around once too often. He may retire and realize his dream of opening a gay bar.
Just who is "Tiny Canadian Pussy Douche" supposed to be? McCoy perhaps? The only comparison may perhaps be that they both have a baby face. I guess for you, that is enough. Do I smell fear? Fear of a Babyfaced Assassin who may be only playing his 4th game in the NFL?
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So what you are saying is that people outside of the tri-state area don't differentiate between the Giants or the Jets and that we're just @sshole teams from NY that play in NJ?
I guess that's a bit comforting to know. Things may have shifted abit recently but within NYC, the Jets have always been the bastard child. Besides the ineptitude and numerous heartbreaking moments, the Jets have always been ridiculed for playing their home games at the Giants Stadium.
There was a great article in the WSJ right before the start of the season that gives a good idea of how the Jets were perceived. Very sarcastic and funny.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405...0523646204.html
Evidence of incompetence is here:
The bold part above, yes, is absolutely true. In my opinion , out here beyond the Pale, the Jets actually have a more flamboyant image going back of course to Joe Namath. For a while with Lawrence Taylor the Giants may have taken some of that thunder, but for the most part I think people think of the Giants as "the establishment" team from NYC, i.e. the boring, stale, white bread team. The Jets were the more rebellious bunch. Like I said, thank Namath for that.
The bold part above, yes, is absolutely true. In my opinion , out here beyond the Pale, the Jets actually have a more flamboyant image going back of course to Joe Namath. For a while with Lawrence Taylor the Giants may have taken some of that thunder, but for the most part I think people think of the Giants as "the establishment" team from NYC, i.e. the boring, stale, white bread team. The Jets were the more rebellious bunch. Like I said, thank Namath for that.
I see where you're coming from. I wasn't around for the Broadway Joe days. My fandom for the Jets (or should I say curse) started when O'Brien was making sweet music with Al Toon and even though the Jets were decent around that time, it was also when the Giants with LT was "the team" to follow as you alluded to in your previous post. Ever since then, the Jets fluctuated between irrelevant to terrible until Parcells restored some respectability. Masochism is a prerequisite for being a Jets fan. Your assessment of the Giants is spot on. Jets fans rip on Giants fans by saying that most of their fans wear docker pants and pennyloafers to the Giants game while having wine and cheese.
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Formerly Stone said:
This is a tough one!The Jets pose some competition for the Steelers playoff seeding so I want to see the Jets lose every week but if the Browns win three in a row it will be intolerable around here
The Jets are highly over-rated and I can see the Browns handling them!
Why are they highly overated, because they don't crush everyone?
There's not a bad team in the league except Carolina. Almost all games in the NFL can go either way in the 4th quarter. Good teams win them and bad teams lose them. The Jets made the AFC title game and are 6-2. The Browns are excited because they've had two big wins since the playoff loss to the Steelers. I can understand being desperate, but let's see how your team does when all of a sudden the playoffs are on the line and the pressure is on. Can the Browns be like the Jets and win two playoff games on the road? Then you can talk.
The Ravens are always in close games. Steelers too. So are the Jets. They win them and the Browns lose them
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Browns win this weekend. Any road game except Carolina is a hard game.
Act like you've been here before son.
Why are they highly overated, because they don't crush everyone?
There's not a bad team in the league except Carolina. Almost all games in the NFL can go either way in the 4th quarter. Good teams win them and bad teams lose them. The Jets made the AFC title game and are 6-2. The Browns are excited because they've had two big wins since the playoff loss to the Steelers. I can understand being desperate, but let's see how your team does when all of a sudden the playoffs are on the line and the pressure is on. Can the Browns be like the Jets and win two playoff games on the road? Then you can talk.
The Ravens are always in close games. Steelers too. So are the Jets. They win them and the Browns lose them
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Browns win this weekend. Any road game except Carolina is a hard game.
Act like you've been here before son.
Dallas.
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...but even with all the 3rd and longs our defense has given up, and all the penalties, ....
That's poor coaching from the top. That, Jonny, is why you should be worried. Your team is certainly as talented as they come with a foundation laid by Mangini but if this is a tight game and it comes down to Rex vs. Eric...I don't like the Jets' chances. Rex is a great defensive mind but he got to where he is by being aggressive (thinking with his pecker). He still hasn't shown me that he understands there's more to being a head coach than being a "rah-rah" guy. He squanders time outs and still makes stupid in game decisions.
Remember last year when he ended the game with all three timeouts in his pocket and when asked, he said he didn't call any of them because "[He] didn't think they were gonna score on us" in the two-minute drill? THAT is hubris.
That's poor coaching from the top. That, Jonny, is why you should be worried. Your team is certainly as talented as they come with a foundation laid by Mangini but if this is a tight game and it comes down to Rex vs. Eric...I don't like the Jets' chances. Rex is a great defensive mind but he got to where he is by being aggressive (thinking with his pecker). He still hasn't shown me that he understands there's more to being a head coach than being a "rah-rah" guy. He squanders time outs and still makes stupid in game decisions.
Remember last year when he ended the game with all three timeouts in his pocket and when asked, he said he didn't call any of them because "[He] didn't think they were gonna score on us" in the two-minute drill? THAT is hubris.
When you say the foundation was laid by Mangini, what players are you referring to specifically?
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That's poor coaching from the top. That, Jonny, is why you should be worried. Your team is certainly as talented as they come with a foundation laid by Mangini but if this is a tight game and it comes down to Rex vs. Eric...I don't like the Jets' chances. Rex is a great defensive mind but he got to where he is by being aggressive (thinking with his pecker). He still hasn't shown me that he understands there's more to being a head coach than being a "rah-rah" guy. He squanders time outs and still makes stupid in game decisions.
Remember last year when he ended the game with all three timeouts in his pocket and when asked, he said he didn't call any of them because "[He] didn't think they were gonna score on us" in the two-minute drill? THAT is hubris.
When you say the foundation was laid by Mangini, what players are you referring to specifically?
When you say the foundation was laid by Mangini, what players are you referring to specifically?
LT Ferguson
LG Faneca (was there for Rex's first year)
C Mangold
RT Woody
RB Thomas Jones (there for Rex's first year)
RB/KR Leon Washington (there for Rex's first year)
FB Richardson
TE Keller
CB Revis (everyone else wanted Aaron Ross)
LB David Harris
NT Kris Jenkins
LB Calvin Pace
The "foundation" also refers to a level of professionalism that did NOT exist with the Jets under Herm Edwards. They were the least penalized team in the league over Mangini's tenure. They became competitive and were a playoff caliber team when Rex arrived.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Not only that, but I go back to the foundations of this group adn remain, humbly, the most read and beloved poster here.The guy who suggested ignore, doens't realize he his sitting in the corner, picking his nose, all by himself.
I didn't mean YOU....I meant "ignore" the Jets guy...Gee whiz fellas. Put down the booze!
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When you say the foundation was laid by Mangini, what players are you referring to specifically?
LT Ferguson
LG Faneca (was there for Rex's first year)
C Mangold
RT Woody
RB Thomas Jones (there for Rex's first year)
RB/KR Leon Washington (there for Rex's first year)
FB Richardson
TE Keller
CB Revis (everyone else wanted Aaron Ross)
LB David Harris
NT Kris Jenkins
LB Calvin Pace
The "foundation" also refers to a level of professionalism that did NOT exist with the Jets under Herm Edwards. They were the least penalized team in the league over Mangini's tenure. They became competitive and were a playoff caliber team when Rex arrived.
LT Ferguson
LG Faneca (was there for Rex's first year)
C Mangold
RT Woody
RB Thomas Jones (there for Rex's first year)
RB/KR Leon Washington (there for Rex's first year)
FB Richardson
TE Keller
CB Revis (everyone else wanted Aaron Ross)
LB David Harris
NT Kris Jenkins
LB Calvin Pace
The "foundation" also refers to a level of professionalism that did NOT exist with the Jets under Herm Edwards. They were the least penalized team in the league over Mangini's tenure. They became competitive and were a playoff caliber team when Rex arrived.
Not sure why you are referring to players that were there last year but not this year. As everyone stated the Jets won 9 regular season games last year.
What I find funny is that Mangini gets the credit for bringing these players in, when he wasn't the GM. The only move (and it is a big one) that he deserves a lot of credit for was Revis. He endorsed that and obviously it paid off big time. By the same token I see that Vernon Gholston is missing from your list, another pick he highly endorsed.
Also one more thought about your comment on Aaron Ross. That is simply not true, Mangini didn't have the power to talk everyone in the room out of Ross if "everyone" else wanted him.
I think Mangini should get some credit for building the Jets offense though. Without him no way do the Jets get Braylon Edwards and Mark Sanchez,lol.
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LT Ferguson
LG Faneca (was there for Rex's first year)
C Mangold
RT Woody
RB Thomas Jones (there for Rex's first year)
RB/KR Leon Washington (there for Rex's first year)
FB Richardson
TE Keller
CB Revis (everyone else wanted Aaron Ross)
LB David Harris
NT Kris Jenkins
LB Calvin Pace
The "foundation" also refers to a level of professionalism that did NOT exist with the Jets under Herm Edwards. They were the least penalized team in the league over Mangini's tenure. They became competitive and were a playoff caliber team when Rex arrived.
Not sure why you are referring to players that were there last year but not this year. As everyone stated the Jets won 9 regular season games last year.
What I find funny is that Mangini gets the credit for bringing these players in, when he wasn't the GM. The only move (and it is a big one) that he deserves a lot of credit for was Revis. He endorsed that and obviously it paid off big time. By the same token I see that Vernon Gholston is missing from your list, another pick he highly endorsed.
Also one more thought about your comment on Aaron Ross. That is simply not true, Mangini didn't have the power to talk everyone in the room out of Ross if "everyone" else wanted him.
I think Mangini should get some credit for building the Jets offense though. Without him no way do the Jets get Braylon Edwards and Mark Sanchez,lol.
Not sure why you are referring to players that were there last year but not this year. As everyone stated the Jets won 9 regular season games last year.
What I find funny is that Mangini gets the credit for bringing these players in, when he wasn't the GM. The only move (and it is a big one) that he deserves a lot of credit for was Revis. He endorsed that and obviously it paid off big time. By the same token I see that Vernon Gholston is missing from your list, another pick he highly endorsed.
Also one more thought about your comment on Aaron Ross. That is simply not true, Mangini didn't have the power to talk everyone in the room out of Ross if "everyone" else wanted him.
I think Mangini should get some credit for building the Jets offense though. Without him no way do the Jets get Braylon Edwards and Mark Sanchez,lol.
Um, no, Mike T never scouted a college player himself and he was originally a bean counter brought in by Parcells. Mangini had a ton of say in those drafts. Pat Kirwan, Bob Papa, Carl Banks, Jim Miller and even Mike Francesa have stated that.
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