The Browns in '09 should follow the Falcons in '08
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Excellent, excellent read Dam, and I can't find a thing I disagree with.
This is a make or break year for Lerner as far as I'm concerned. If he chooses to sit back and tell us everything is ok, then we have major issues. I am still in utter amazement at the turnarounds of Miami and Atlanta, so it does give us hope that if things are done correctly, this ship can be righted.
However, if Lerner sits back and doesn't make the changes you just mentioned, then I will find it very hard to be optimistic about next year's team.
Re: The running back. I'm quite confident that new blood will get the Harrison thing and how we're treading water with Lewis. What I'm getting at is maybe we can wait another year on that, but it's contingent on Lewis not becoming a distraction not being the primary back. Lewis talks a good game, but he has a lot of Winslow/Edwards in him when it comes to being the man.
You didn't get into personnel much, but much of the dead weight needs gutted like Edwards, Winslow, Shaffer, DA, Davis etc. We need to get young and concentrate on the draft and keeping cap space. I went off in this thread about a lot of things.
You didn't get into personnel much, but much of the dead weight needs gutted like Edwards, Winslow, Shaffer, DA, Davis etc. We need to get young and concentrate on the draft and keeping cap space. I went off in this thread about a lot of things.
Okay, now let's talk personnel.
I'm going to assume a few things here. First, a new, younger, more dynamic coach like shep just mentioned, who is D-minded and wants the strong running game we need in Cleveland.
Second, Quinn is the QB and there's no question. DA is gone, hopefully for at least a 3rd. We do need a vet, a guy like Frerotte to push Quinn and be a legit #2. Any of the guys shep mentioned are fine with me as backups.
Third, JL accepts his new role, mentioned above, and we draft a decent rookie RB whom we immediately begin to groom. Harrison is given a chance to show what he can do with meaningful minutes.
Fourth, K2 is gone and BE stays. K2 seems to be done with Phil but BE is at least saying the right things. Besides, BE has the greater potential payoff if we can get him right. Let's say K2 brings us a 4th, conservatively. Stallworth is gone and we sign one major and one minor WR to address a major need. I don't care about the names right now.
Finally, Fraley stays because he's a good team guy and so does Shaffer because we can't afford to move him (at least right now). We address the OL for depth only. I don't know Tucker's status so I'm assuming he's out for now.
So, I'm seeing this:
QB -- Quinn, vet QB
RB -- Lewis, Harrison, rookie RB
WR -- BE, vet WR, vet WR, Steptoe and hopefully JJ
TE -- Heiden, Rucker, Dinkins or vet TE
OL -- Thomas, Steinbach, Fraley, Hadnot, Shaffer
There's enough talent here to field a competent offense. The question is what direction are we headed?
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Watching Falcons-Bucs and here are some more things that I like that the Falcons do that we could/should do next year:
*Play everybody. Not only did they commit to their #1 overall draft pick early in the season, they did the same at WR (Douglas), LB (Lofton) and some others I'm blanking on. Anyway, they let the players they drafted -- y'know, the guys they liked enough to actually put on team -- actually PLAY, and GROW together into a TEAM. Crazy talk, I know.
*Get creative. Two play calls from today that RAC would never let Chud run in a million years:
Atlanta lined up in an I-formation with Turner at FB and Norwood at tailback. At the snap, Ryan fakes a pitch to Norwood who goes to the flat and then play-actions to Turner who dives up the middle. The D bites on the Turner fake and Ryan puts a perfect ball on Norwood who is now out wide and outruns the LB and gains 10.
A complex play but a relatively easy gain of a first down. It involved both RBs and showed some creativity.
Why couldn't we do something like that with Jamal and JH? Or even with Vickers and JH? (One reason that we can't is that no one buys that we'd actually run the ball with JH in the game but that's another thread.)
Another great play we could run came in the 3rd quarter:
Atlanta lines up in the shotgun but with speedy back-up QB Shockley (I think) as QB and Norwood at RB next to him. Shockley fakes to Norwood and then hands to Douglas on the reverse who gains a big chunk and a first.
How about Cribbs at QB with JH or even JL next to him and run this same play with Stallworth coming on the reverse? That's something we could do RIGHT NOW but no, we'll never see it from RAC. Too risky. Too inventive. Too...who knows what. But we could do it.
*Fiery coach. This one just happened. On an incomplete pass by TB to the ATL sideline, the ATL CB grabbed TB's Antonio Bryant as he went by head coach Mike Smith. Smith grabbed him and started to yell something at him, presumably about not being dumb or whatever when Bryant either said something to Smith or the CB. Smith got in his face and bumped Bryant's facemask and then pointed across the field like "get the f*** off my sideline."
You could see the ATL players goin' nuts over it right away and then the token female sideline reporter said later they were all talkin' about it and were fired up that their coach did that.
Can we see RAC doing anything like that AT ALL? Either yelling at one of our guys doing something stupid but especially yelling at the other team?
I can't even imagine RAC doing ANYTHING to fire his team up, let alone showing some emotion on the sideline. I'm not saying a coach should be a nutjob on the sideline but recognizing when your team needs a lift or showing you give a crap has got to be a positive.
Anyway, Atlanta has become the team I watch now because 1. they're entertaining and 2. they play the type of football I want us to play. Oh, and they give me hope for next year.
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I agree.....but Matt Ryan is a lot better than BQ....a lot better.
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@shepwrite said:
I'm starting to think that the best way to REALLY impact the bottom line next season is to get a 1,400 yard running back... like Beanie Wells. Quinn and a Buckeye stud at RB would light that town up. Bring in McDaniel or Brian Schottenheimer to coach.I know, I know: We're supposed to be more worried about the defense. Problem is, our defense isn't all that bad. We're actually ranked pretty high as far as scoring defense. It's our offense that went to shit.
Bring in Crowder and Canty, then use the 2nd round pick on defense, maybe on a pass rusher. Get Holly back and add a solid veteran. Resign Sean Jones. And most of all, get a DC who wants to attack. Maybe Mike Nolan?
Our Defense "isn't all that bad"? Ranked 27th. Giving up 359.3 yards per game? Not that bad? Better start looking before you speak O' wise one.
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You must be a homosexual.
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I agree.....but Matt Ryan is a lot better than BQ....a lot better.
Oh, good Lord, 'peen, you're a Quinn hater now too? Is that how we're to read this?
What is it about Quinn that brings this out? Is it just fatigue from the incessant DA-BQ argument?
But c'mon, what is this sentiment based on? His performance this year?
Well, hell yes he's a lot better this year! HE GOT TO PLAY.
That's the whole point of my original post! This is what you do as an organization when you draft a highly-touted QB in the first round!
YOU PLAY HIM.
You get behind the guy and you say "lead us" and you let him grow up. You support him, you surround him with as much talent as you can, you accept his mistakes but you TRUST your pick and you BUILD your franchise.
What the Browns did instead is botch their QB situation totally. Savage played it perfectly in '07, got BQ to sit his whole rookie year just like he wanted and then, when it was time to deal DA and begin the Quinn Era, he blinked. He chickened out.
Or, worse, he totally OVER-estimated not just DA, but his entire roster. He thought we were ready to compete with the big boys and he was WRONG. It was a tremendously stupid act of hubris and we're all paying for it now.
And he cost us an entire year of development, both as a team but more importantly as a young team with a young leader.
The whole point of getting Quinn last year was to get ahead of the curve, remember? It was to get him while we could and get that growth year out of the way.
And Savage blew it. And now we're paying the price.
Anyway, Ryan is better? Right now, he ABSOLUTELY is better.
But Quinn is AT LEAST as good a prospect as Ryan. Doesn't watching Ryan make you want to see BQ?
And if not, why the F*** not?!?!?!? WTF is wrong with our fanbase when we have people being called names for wanting OUR FIRST ROUND PICK TO SUCCEED?!?!?!
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I agree.....but Matt Ryan is a lot better than BQ....a lot better.
Oh, good Lord, 'peen, you're a Quinn hater now too? Is that how we're to read this?
What is it about Quinn that brings this out? Is it just fatigue from the incessant DA-BQ argument?
But c'mon, what is this sentiment based on? His performance this year?
Well, hell yes he's a lot better this year! HE GOT TO PLAY.
That's the whole point of my original post! This is what you do as an organization when you draft a highly-touted QB in the first round!
YOU PLAY HIM.
You get behind the guy and you say "lead us" and you let him grow up. You support him, you surround him with as much talent as you can, you accept his mistakes but you TRUST your pick and you BUILD your franchise.
What the Browns did instead is botch their QB situation totally. Savage played it perfectly in '07, got BQ to sit his whole rookie year just like he wanted and then, when it was time to deal DA and begin the Quinn Era, he blinked. He chickened out.
Or, worse, he totally OVER-estimated not just DA, but his entire roster. He thought we were ready to compete with the big boys and he was WRONG. It was a tremendously stupid act of hubris and we're all paying for it now.
And he cost us an entire year of development, both as a team but more importantly as a young team with a young leader.
The whole point of getting Quinn last year was to get ahead of the curve, remember? It was to get him while we could and get that growth year out of the way.
And Savage blew it. And now we're paying the price.
Anyway, Ryan is better? Right now, he ABSOLUTELY is better.
But Quinn is AT LEAST as good a prospect as Ryan. Doesn't watching Ryan make you want to see BQ?
And if not, why the F*** not?!?!?!? WTF is wrong with our fanbase when we have people being called names for wanting OUR FIRST ROUND PICK TO SUCCEED?!?!?!
But c'mon, what is this sentiment based on? His performance this year?
Well, hell yes he's a lot better this year! HE GOT TO PLAY.
That's the whole point of my original post! This is what you do as an organization when you draft a highly-touted QB in the first round!
YOU PLAY HIM.
In BQ Fag Fantasy Land the sexy stud has never played and therefore has never done anything wrong (well, other than get arrested for starting fights at gay bars in Columbus...)
In real life he started 3 games and sucked so bad he already got benched...
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I agree.....but Matt Ryan is a lot better than BQ....a lot better.
Oh, good Lord, 'peen, you're a Quinn hater now too? Is that how we're to read this?
What is it about Quinn that brings this out? Is it just fatigue from the incessant DA-BQ argument?
But c'mon, what is this sentiment based on? His performance this year?
Well, hell yes he's a lot better this year! HE GOT TO PLAY.
That's the whole point of my original post! This is what you do as an organization when you draft a highly-touted QB in the first round!
YOU PLAY HIM.
You get behind the guy and you say "lead us" and you let him grow up. You support him, you surround him with as much talent as you can, you accept his mistakes but you TRUST your pick and you BUILD your franchise.
What the Browns did instead is botch their QB situation totally. Savage played it perfectly in '07, got BQ to sit his whole rookie year just like he wanted and then, when it was time to deal DA and begin the Quinn Era, he blinked. He chickened out.
Or, worse, he totally OVER-estimated not just DA, but his entire roster. He thought we were ready to compete with the big boys and he was WRONG. It was a tremendously stupid act of hubris and we're all paying for it now.
And he cost us an entire year of development, both as a team but more importantly as a young team with a young leader.
The whole point of getting Quinn last year was to get ahead of the curve, remember? It was to get him while we could and get that growth year out of the way.
And Savage blew it. And now we're paying the price.
Anyway, Ryan is better? Right now, he ABSOLUTELY is better.
But Quinn is AT LEAST as good a prospect as Ryan. Doesn't watching Ryan make you want to see BQ?
And if not, why the F*** not?!?!?!? WTF is wrong with our fanbase when we have people being called names for wanting OUR FIRST ROUND PICK TO SUCCEED?!?!?!
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"In BQ Fag Fantasy Land the sexy stud has never played and therefore has never done anything wrong (well, other than get arrested for starting fights at gay bars in Columbus...)
In real life he started 3 games and sucked so bad he already got benched... "
"Doesn't gay porno make you want to see BQ?
What doesn't make you want to see BQ?
Fag. " Lumberg
Lum if that is all you have to add to the Board, then please leave. Your game is very old and very tired. Go stalk DA's future teams boards or something.
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Ha. Should have known you couldn't resist any mention of BQ, Thread Assassin.
Some may see you as a DA fan but you post the letters BQ far more frequently.
What's that term for hating what you most desire? And for disparaging that which you most wish you could have but cannot?
Yeah, whatever that's called, that's you.
Anyway, I'm replying for the benefit of real fans who are reading this, and for us, BQ represents a first-round pick, and not just any first-round pick but a QB, the most important position on the field and for an organization.
In the NFL, first-round QBs are chosen for a reason: they were very, very good in college and teams believe they can be that good in the pros.
And though you hate that fact because your "favorite" player was not even CLOSE to a first-round pick (where was he picked again? Second to LAST round right?) it's simply and purely true.
So, BQ will start next year and the Browns will FINALLY give him a chance to be their leader.
The only question to be answered is: how good will he be?
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It is getting to the point where steelerssuckchuck adds more to the board and is at least a little entertaining to read.
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I agree.....but Matt Ryan is a lot better than BQ....a lot better.
How could you say that? You say Quinn for 3 games and he had a broken finger in two of them. Maybe you can make that statement when you see more of Quinn, but you at least have to give the guy a few games and someplaymakers with him. Ryan has produced, but let's curtail the knee jerk reactions until all the fact are out there.
That's only fair........a lot fairer
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Atlanta makes the playoffs, one year after finishing 4-12. Truly unbelievable.
Just keeping my "hope" thread alive!
Seriously though, these guys had a PLAN in the offseason. Hey Randy, call Arthur Blank for help, would ya?
As impressive as Ryan and Turner have been, how about that defense? Finished 4th WORST in points per game in the NFL last year at 25.9. This year, they are 9th BEST at 19.9. A whole TD difference per game!
We can do this, fellas. We have a LOT more key pieces than the Falcons did at this point last year.
They drafted their new QB and LT (Sam Baker) together in the 1st round, trading one of their 2nd rounders to move back into the first round. Sound familiar?
They also got a starting LB in Curtis Lofton and a CB and WR who both played significant minutes this year. And they signed Turner to be their workhorse.
Think of it like this: we got our LT and QB and CB in the same draft. We need our LB, RB and WR from this draft.
New coach, new attitude and this could be us next year.
Keep the faith!
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My faith is restored, Juki
PFT has an interesting post up about how haphazard the Falcons' GM-selection process was. And according to them, the Matt Ryan pick was largely owner Arthur Blank's doing.
Whatever the truth is, it's clear that their plan has worked. Here's to hoping we can emulate it next season.
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Good, Alo. Glad to help.
Interesting blurb on Atlanta there, especially the piece about Ryan being Blank's choice. I buy it totally.
The really interesting part is that Ryan was inserted by the COACHING staff, however. Unlike our dysfunctional coach (who appears likely to have let his personal feelings/ego supercede his football judgment with Quinn), Mike Smith went with the rookie and it has paid off bigtime.
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