Playing not to lose!!
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I disagree, last week we started off first down with our back to the end zone in a tie ball game with little time on the clock in OT and we threw it deep, I thought that we should have been a bit more conservative and ran the ball, let the clock run and maybe escaped with a tie. The gambled, went for the win and ended up losing. Had they played not to lose, we probably end up in a tie last week.
This week, just before our go-ahead fieldgoal, we elect to pass on 3rd-and-long. and took a sack. I wouldn't have minded us running a draw or something there and picked up positive yardage, again let the clock run and kicked a closer fieldgoal than 41-yards after missing TWO from 51.
How many coverage sacks did we give up today? Colt kept his eyes down field and when you are playing with just 10 guys on offense and Robiskie running around doing whatever it is he does all game long (I have no fucking clue), there isn't much to work with. We have a TE and a RB and we someone stay in games, I gotta give credit to Daboll and Colt for finding a way to not get killed and turn the ball over.
I disagree, last week we started off first down with our back to the end zone in a tie ball game with little time on the clock in OT and we threw it deep, I thought that we should have been a bit more conservative and ran the ball, let the clock run and maybe escaped with a tie. The gambled, went for the win and ended up losing. Had they played not to lose, we probably end up in a tie last week.
This week, just before our go-ahead fieldgoal, we elect to pass on 3rd-and-long. and took a sack. I wouldn't have minded us running a draw or something there and picked up positive yardage, again let the clock run and kicked a closer fieldgoal than 41-yards after missing TWO from 51.
How many coverage sacks did we give up today? Colt kept his eyes down field and when you are playing with just 10 guys on offense and Robiskie running around doing whatever it is he does all game long (I have no xxxxing clue), there isn't much to work with. We have a TE and a RB and we someone stay in games, I gotta give credit to Daboll and Colt for finding a way to not get killed and turn the ball over.
The box was stacked last week when we were on our own one. A run up the middle (because that's the only kind Daboll knows), would have more than likely ended up stuffed at or before the line. In all honesty, opening it up on that first down play to the TE was probably the highest percentage play. We've got athletic, playmaking TE's. The Jets were in their base defense, and their two corners(their best two defensive players) were on our receivers. The TE/linebacker had the highest percentage of positive completion. In all honesty, that was Daboll's best playcall, and it was just a tad overthrown. If we had played for the tie, we would have lost. Our success hinged on that single play.
But this offense will only have marginal success with Brian Daboll as the offensive coordinator. Daboll has been escaping by the skin of his teeth each week with stellar defensive play and Hillis carrying the load. There are only a handful of runs that Daboll runs, and it's only due to Hillis's playmaking ability and sheer refusal to quit that these runs are successful. We've got an amazing offensive line, no matter what anyone may think. I think this game was exactly what Cleveland needed, honestly, in order to get better. Once I get my head out of my ass from this loss, I'm going to go back and analyze our offensive tendencies. I can say with great certainty that, under Daboll, our offense runs in between the tackles on 95% of first downs. And that's not acceptable.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Stan,
I understand what you are saying but...
Last week a tie gets you nothing. I think that call was the correct one.
I agree running a draw would have been nice, BUT how many times did you see them line up with 4 wide and run a draw? I'd say everytime they ran the ball it was a power I. I'd have loved to have seen a 1st down where they lined up in a passing formation and then ran it. If they want to stack the box then make them spread out and cover the 4 WR's.
Why is Colt waiting on a route that takes time to develop when the Browns have WR who have proven that they don't have the moves to shake DB's? Why are they even running those types of routes? Run a slant across the middle, run a hitch pattern. RUN A DAMN BUBBLE SCREEN.... I don't really care what it is, but it should be a quick snap two step drop then throw. If they start to cheat up and drop coverage run it down their throats.
Running the same damn plays that don't work isn't exactly proactive. They were 0 for 7 on thrid down at one point.
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don't put all of this on daboll. eric mangini is the hc and he needs to be partially held accountable for the pathetic offensive playcalling in the 2nd half. think about it, if you were the hc and you had an oc calling conservative plays like daboll did in the 2nd half (when the pass was killing the the jag's defense in the 1st half) wouldn't you step in and do something about it? no excuses!! and for all of the complaining about not having any good wrs, i'll bring something up about that. we all know kokinis was a puppet and mangini ran the show last season. so wasn't it mangini's fault for drafting 2 similiar styled wrs that early in the draft? or are we going to act like mangini can do no wrong and it's always someone elses fault? i stood up for mangini when he was attacked for the bus trip, fining be for not paying for the bottle of water, etc., but the guy needs to step up and do something about this conservatism. it's either mangini isn't making necessary adjustments as a hc on offense or he's the one that's responsible for the conservatism.
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don't put all of this on daboll. eric mangini is the hc and he needs to be partially held accountable for the pathetic offensive playcalling in the 2nd half. think about it, if you were the hc and you had an oc calling conservative plays like daboll did in the 2nd half (when the pass was killing the the jag's defense in the 1st half) wouldn't you step in and do something about it? no excuses!! and for all of the complaining about not having any good wrs, i'll bring something up about that. we all know kokinis was a puppet and mangini ran the show last season. so wasn't it mangini's fault for drafting 2 similiar styled wrs that early in the draft? or are we going to act like mangini can do no wrong and it's always someone elses fault? i stood up for mangini when he was attacked for the bus trip, fining be for not paying for the bottle of water, etc., but the guy needs to step up and do something about this conservatism. it's either mangini isn't making necessary adjustments as a hc on offense or he's the one that's responsible for the conservatism.
don't put all of this on daboll. eric mangini is the hc and he needs to be partially held accountable for the pathetic playcalling in the 2nd half. think about it, if you were the hc and you had an oc calling conservative plays like daboll did in the 2nd half (when the pass was killing the opposing team's defense in the 1st half) wouldn't you step in and do something about it? no excuses!! and for all of the complaining about not having any good wrs, i'll bring something up about that. we all know kokinis was a puppet and mangini ran the show last season. so wasn't it mangini's fault for drafting 2 similiar styled wrs that early in the draft? or are we going to act like mangini can do no wrong and it's always someone elses fault? i stood up for mangini when he was attacked for the bus trip, fining be for not paying for the bottle of water, etc., but the guy needs to step up and do something about this conservatism. it's either mangini isn't making necessary adjustments as a hc on offense or he's the one that's responsible for the conservatism.
Oh, no I agree 100%. I love Mangini, but this is his fault. He brought in an unexperienced coach who's never held a position higher than QB coach anywhere to run an NFL offense. It was a move of comfort at best, and now that Mangini has built a system in Cleveland and developed a comfort zone, Daboll needs to be gone yesterday. Don't forget though, Mangini is a defensive guy, not an offensive one. There's no doubt in my mind he should have taken over the reigns a bit and opened up the playbook. But at the same time, you don't want to have him take over if he's not comfortable knowing the offense.
So, that does alleviate some of the blame. But, ignorance is no excuse. Mangini needs to step it up with the offense. The defense is making great strides, because of Mangini and Ryan. Now it's the offense's time to catch up. Bring in Norv Turner.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
don't put all of this on daboll. eric mangini is the hc and he needs to be partially held accountable for the pathetic playcalling in the 2nd half. think about it, if you were the hc and you had an oc calling conservative plays like daboll did in the 2nd half (when the pass was killing the opposing team's defense in the 1st half) wouldn't you step in and do something about it? no excuses!! and for all of the complaining about not having any good wrs, i'll bring something up about that. we all know kokinis was a puppet and mangini ran the show last season. so wasn't it mangini's fault for drafting 2 similiar styled wrs that early in the draft? or are we going to act like mangini can do no wrong and it's always someone elses fault? i stood up for mangini when he was attacked for the bus trip, fining be for not paying for the bottle of water, etc., but the guy needs to step up and do something about this conservatism. it's either mangini isn't making necessary adjustments as a hc on offense or he's the one that's responsible for the conservatism.
Oh, no I agree 100%. I love Mangini, but this is his fault. He brought in an unexperienced coach who's never held a position higher than QB coach anywhere to run an NFL offense. It was a move of comfort at best, and now that Mangini has built a system in Cleveland and developed a comfort zone, Daboll needs to be gone yesterday. Don't forget though, Mangini is a defensive guy, not an offensive one. There's no doubt in my mind he should have taken over the reigns a bit and opened up the playbook. But at the same time, you don't want to have him take over if he's not comfortable knowing the offense.
So, that does alleviate some of the blame. But, ignorance is no excuse. Mangini needs to step it up with the offense. The defense is making great strides, because of Mangini and Ryan. Now it's the offense's time to catch up. Bring in Norv Turner.
Oh, no I agree 100%. I love Mangini, but this is his fault. He brought in an unexperienced coach who's never held a position higher than QB coach anywhere to run an NFL offense. It was a move of comfort at best, and now that Mangini has built a system in Cleveland and developed a comfort zone, Daboll needs to be gone yesterday. Don't forget though, Mangini is a defensive guy, not an offensive one. There's no doubt in my mind he should have taken over the reigns a bit and opened up the playbook. But at the same time, you don't want to have him take over if he's not comfortable knowing the offense.
So, that does alleviate some of the blame. But, ignorance is no excuse. Mangini needs to step it up with the offense. The defense is making great strides, because of Mangini and Ryan. Now it's the offense's time to catch up. Bring in Norv Turner.
i understand your point about mangini being a defensive coach, but why is it that us fans can see what's wrong with the offense, but a guy like mangini can't?
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don't put all of this on daboll. eric mangini is the hc and he needs to be partially held accountable for the pathetic offensive playcalling in the 2nd half. think about it, if you were the hc and you had an oc calling conservative plays like daboll did in the 2nd half (when the pass was killing the the jag's defense in the 1st half) wouldn't you step in and do something about it? no excuses!! and for all of the complaining about not having any good wrs, i'll bring something up about that. we all know kokinis was a puppet and mangini ran the show last season. so wasn't it mangini's fault for drafting 2 similiar styled wrs that early in the draft? or are we going to act like mangini can do no wrong and it's always someone elses fault? i stood up for mangini when he was attacked for the bus trip, fining be for not paying for the bottle of water, etc., but the guy needs to step up and do something about this conservatism. it's either mangini isn't making necessary adjustments as a hc on offense or he's the one that's responsible for the conservatism.
don't put all of this on daboll. eric mangini is the hc and he needs to be partially held accountable for the pathetic offensive playcalling in the 2nd half. think about it, if you were the hc and you had an oc calling conservative plays like daboll did in the 2nd half (when the pass was killing the the jag's defense in the 1st half) wouldn't you step in and do something about it? no excuses!! and for all of the complaining about not having any good wrs, i'll bring something up about that. we all know kokinis was a puppet and mangini ran the show last season. so wasn't it mangini's fault for drafting 2 similiar styled wrs that early in the draft? or are we going to act like mangini can do no wrong and it's always someone elses fault? i stood up for mangini when he was attacked for the bus trip, fining be for not paying for the bottle of water, etc., but the guy needs to step up and do something about this conservatism. it's either mangini isn't making necessary adjustments as a hc on offense or he's the one that's responsible for the conservatism.
His coaching has nothing to do with his drafting. I hate it when people call for him to be fired because of that draft, when he was already fired from drafting duties.
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don't put all of this on daboll. eric mangini is the hc and he needs to be partially held accountable for the pathetic offensive playcalling in the 2nd half. think about it, if you were the hc and you had an oc calling conservative plays like daboll did in the 2nd half (when the pass was killing the the jag's defense in the 1st half) wouldn't you step in and do something about it? no excuses!! and for all of the complaining about not having any good wrs, i'll bring something up about that. we all know kokinis was a puppet and mangini ran the show last season. so wasn't it mangini's fault for drafting 2 similiar styled wrs that early in the draft? or are we going to act like mangini can do no wrong and it's always someone elses fault? i stood up for mangini when he was attacked for the bus trip, fining be for not paying for the bottle of water, etc., but the guy needs to step up and do something about this conservatism. it's either mangini isn't making necessary adjustments as a hc on offense or he's the one that's responsible for the conservatism.
His coaching has nothing to do with his drafting. I hate it when people call for him to be fired because of that draft, when he was already fired from drafting duties.
Hillis-iz-Boss said:
His coaching has nothing to do with his drafting. I hate it when people call for him to be fired because of that draft, when he was already fired from drafting duties.what are you talking about, man?? did you even comprehend my post lol? who said anything about firing mangini??? i brought up the draft because the 2 wrs he had something to do with drafting are part of the browns problem. i said nothing about firing mangini. i just went back to the root of one of the browns problems on offense.
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Oh, no I agree 100%. I love Mangini, but this is his fault. He brought in an unexperienced coach who's never held a position higher than QB coach anywhere to run an NFL offense. It was a move of comfort at best, and now that Mangini has built a system in Cleveland and developed a comfort zone, Daboll needs to be gone yesterday. Don't forget though, Mangini is a defensive guy, not an offensive one. There's no doubt in my mind he should have taken over the reigns a bit and opened up the playbook. But at the same time, you don't want to have him take over if he's not comfortable knowing the offense.
So, that does alleviate some of the blame. But, ignorance is no excuse. Mangini needs to step it up with the offense. The defense is making great strides, because of Mangini and Ryan. Now it's the offense's time to catch up. Bring in Norv Turner.
i understand your point about mangini being a defensive coach, but why is it that us fans can see what's wrong with the offense, but a guy like mangini can't?
i understand your point about mangini being a defensive coach, but why is it that us fans can see what's wrong with the offense, but a guy like mangini can't?
That is true. And I'm sure he does see what's wrong with the offense. The question is, why isn't he doing anything about it? He either really likes Daboll, or he's setting him up to be a scapegoat. Like what happened with Kokinis.
And, for what it's worth, sometimes it's easier to notice trends from the outside looking in. But I'm not that vain, I know we're not all smarter than Mangini.
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don't put all of this on daboll. eric mangini is the hc and he needs to be partially held accountable for the pathetic playcalling in the 2nd half. think about it, if you were the hc and you had an oc calling conservative plays like daboll did in the 2nd half (when the pass was killing the opposing team's defense in the 1st half) wouldn't you step in and do something about it? no excuses!! and for all of the complaining about not having any good wrs, i'll bring something up about that. we all know kokinis was a puppet and mangini ran the show last season. so wasn't it mangini's fault for drafting 2 similiar styled wrs that early in the draft? or are we going to act like mangini can do no wrong and it's always someone elses fault? i stood up for mangini when he was attacked for the bus trip, fining be for not paying for the bottle of water, etc., but the guy needs to step up and do something about this conservatism. it's either mangini isn't making necessary adjustments as a hc on offense or he's the one that's responsible for the conservatism.
Oh, no I agree 100%. I love Mangini, but this is his fault. He brought in an unexperienced coach who's never held a position higher than QB coach anywhere to run an NFL offense. It was a move of comfort at best, and now that Mangini has built a system in Cleveland and developed a comfort zone, Daboll needs to be gone yesterday. Don't forget though, Mangini is a defensive guy, not an offensive one. There's no doubt in my mind he should have taken over the reigns a bit and opened up the playbook. But at the same time, you don't want to have him take over if he's not comfortable knowing the offense.
So, that does alleviate some of the blame. But, ignorance is no excuse. Mangini needs to step it up with the offense. The defense is making great strides, because of Mangini and Ryan. Now it's the offense's time to catch up. Bring in Norv Turner.
Oh, no I agree 100%. I love Mangini, but this is his fault. He brought in an unexperienced coach who's never held a position higher than QB coach anywhere to run an NFL offense. It was a move of comfort at best, and now that Mangini has built a system in Cleveland and developed a comfort zone, Daboll needs to be gone yesterday. Don't forget though, Mangini is a defensive guy, not an offensive one. There's no doubt in my mind he should have taken over the reigns a bit and opened up the playbook. But at the same time, you don't want to have him take over if he's not comfortable knowing the offense.
So, that does alleviate some of the blame. But, ignorance is no excuse. Mangini needs to step it up with the offense. The defense is making great strides, because of Mangini and Ryan. Now it's the offense's time to catch up. Bring in Norv Turner.
i wasn't attacking you or anyone else with my post. i just don't like how mangini seems to escape blame for what happens with his team. he is the hc, so he does have the ability to make adjustments if he sees something wrong and he should have the intelligence to see that if something is working, stick with it instead of allowing his offense to go conservative in the 2nd half.
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i understand your point about mangini being a defensive coach, but why is it that us fans can see what's wrong with the offense, but a guy like mangini can't?
That is true. And I'm sure he does see what's wrong with the offense. The question is, why isn't he doing anything about it? He either really likes Daboll, or he's setting him up to be a scapegoat. Like what happened with Kokinis.
And, for what it's worth, sometimes it's easier to notice trends from the outside looking in. But I'm not that vain, I know we're not all smarter than Mangini.
That is true. And I'm sure he does see what's wrong with the offense. The question is, why isn't he doing anything about it? He either really likes Daboll, or he's setting him up to be a scapegoat. Like what happened with Kokinis.
And, for what it's worth, sometimes it's easier to notice trends from the outside looking in. But I'm not that vain, I know we're not all smarter than Mangini.
agreed. i know i'm not some football guru, but i just don't understand situations like this. they seem to be so easy to figure out. you're killing them with the passing game and running game in the 1st half. keep doing it and don't settle for run, run pass until you've built up a good enough lead.
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I disagree, last week we started off first down with our back to the end zone in a tie ball game with little time on the clock in OT and we threw it deep, I thought that we should have been a bit more conservative and ran the ball, let the clock run and maybe escaped with a tie. The gambled, went for the win and ended up losing. Had they played not to lose, we probably end up in a tie last week.
This week, just before our go-ahead fieldgoal, we elect to pass on 3rd-and-long. and took a sack. I wouldn't have minded us running a draw or something there and picked up positive yardage, again let the clock run and kicked a closer fieldgoal than 41-yards after missing TWO from 51.
How many coverage sacks did we give up today? Colt kept his eyes down field and when you are playing with just 10 guys on offense and Robiskie running around doing whatever it is he does all game long (I have no xxxxing clue), there isn't much to work with. We have a TE and a RB and we someone stay in games, I gotta give credit to Daboll and Colt for finding a way to not get killed and turn the ball over.
The box was stacked last week when we were on our own one. A run up the middle (because that's the only kind Daboll knows), would have more than likely ended up stuffed at or before the line. In all honesty, opening it up on that first down play to the TE was probably the highest percentage play. We've got athletic, playmaking TE's. The Jets were in their base defense, and their two corners(their best two defensive players) were on our receivers. The TE/linebacker had the highest percentage of positive completion. In all honesty, that was Daboll's best playcall, and it was just a tad overthrown. If we had played for the tie, we would have lost. Our success hinged on that single play.
But this offense will only have marginal success with Brian Daboll as the offensive coordinator. Daboll has been escaping by the skin of his teeth each week with stellar defensive play and Hillis carrying the load. There are only a handful of runs that Daboll runs, and it's only due to Hillis's playmaking ability and sheer refusal to quit that these runs are successful. We've got an amazing offensive line, no matter what anyone may think. I think this game was exactly what Cleveland needed, honestly, in order to get better. Once I get my head out of my ass from this loss, I'm going to go back and analyze our offensive tendencies. I can say with great certainty that, under Daboll, our offense runs in between the tackles on 95% of first downs. And that's not acceptable.
The box was stacked last week when we were on our own one. A run up the middle (because that's the only kind Daboll knows), would have more than likely ended up stuffed at or before the line. In all honesty, opening it up on that first down play to the TE was probably the highest percentage play.
First of all, we don't ONLY run it up the middle, Hillis sweeps or bounces outside a lot. The clincher against the Saints was a run around the rightside for a score.
Secondly, my point about running it on first down in our last series wasn't about moving the chains, but about clock management. Someone (you?) made the point that we always play not to lose and I showed how that isn't true and actually the opposite as of late. Had we ran on first down verse the Jets then they may not have had time to win that game in the end.
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Stan,
I understand what you are saying but...
Last week a tie gets you nothing. I think that call was the correct one.
I agree running a draw would have been nice, BUT how many times did you see them line up with 4 wide and run a draw? I'd say everytime they ran the ball it was a power I. I'd have loved to have seen a 1st down where they lined up in a passing formation and then ran it. If they want to stack the box then make them spread out and cover the 4 WR's.
Why is Colt waiting on a route that takes time to develop when the Browns have WR who have proven that they don't have the moves to shake DB's? Why are they even running those types of routes? Run a slant across the middle, run a hitch pattern. RUN A DAMN BUBBLE SCREEN.... I don't really care what it is, but it should be a quick snap two step drop then throw. If they start to cheat up and drop coverage run it down their throats.
Running the same damn plays that don't work isn't exactly proactive. They were 0 for 7 on thrid down at one point.
Stan,
I understand what you are saying but...
Last week a tie gets you nothing. I think that call was the correct one.
A tie gets you out of the 'L' column.
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A tie gets you out of the 'L' column.
True. But it doesn't do us much good when we don't win any other games. Wins get you into the postseason, not ties.
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We screwed ourselves. That many turnovers and our offense does jack?
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the thing that i find the most mind boggling is why did the browns go conservative against the worst d they've faced in the last few weeks? vs pitt, no, ne, ny and the browns play to win. vs carolina and the browns play not to lose. wth????
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What I don't get is why we have 100% dependable receivers in Hillis and Moore and yet Hillis is almost always hanging around in the backfield blocking instead of doing middle curls for eacy yards. Vickers should be picking up the blitz. Robert Royal once again proves that he can't catch a cold, yet he gets playing time over Moore? It's boggling sometimes. Oh, and how about that stunning change of pace back Mike Bell? 14 carries for 11 yards this season.
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What I don't get is why we have 100% dependable receivers in Hillis and Moore and yet Hillis is almost always hanging around in the backfield blocking instead of doing middle curls for eacy yards. Vickers should be picking up the blitz. Robert Royal once again proves that he can't catch a cold, yet he gets playing time over Moore? It's boggling sometimes. Oh, and how about that stunning change of pace back Mike Bell? 14 carries for 11 yards this season.
What I don't get is why we have 100% dependable receivers in Hillis and Moore and yet Hillis is almost always hanging around in the backfield blocking instead of doing middle curls for eacy yards. Vickers should be picking up the blitz. Robert Royal once again proves that he can't catch a cold, yet he gets playing time over Moore? It's boggling sometimes. Oh, and how about that stunning change of pace back Mike Bell? 14 carries for 11 yards this season.
I asked the same thing about Moore. I wonder if he is a terrible run blocker. That seems to be the only logic that I can think of as to why he isn't on the field all the time.
I also don't understand the lack of production out of Bell. I figured he would be able to step in and at least give Hillis a breather. I wasn't so worried when they dumped Harrison (although I still think he is a great RB) but when they dumped Davis too I was worried the run game would be way to one sided. I still think they need to get that speed back that can turn the corner on a pitch when they are stacking the box.
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What I don't get is why we have 100% dependable receivers in Hillis and Moore and yet Hillis is almost always hanging around in the backfield blocking instead of doing middle curls for eacy yards. Vickers should be picking up the blitz. Robert Royal once again proves that he can't catch a cold, yet he gets playing time over Moore? It's boggling sometimes. Oh, and how about that stunning change of pace back Mike Bell? 14 carries for 11 yards this season.
I asked the same thing about Moore. I wonder if he is a terrible run blocker. That seems to be the only logic that I can think of as to why he isn't on the field all the time.
I also don't understand the lack of production out of Bell. I figured he would be able to step in and at least give Hillis a breather. I wasn't so worried when they dumped Harrison (although I still think he is a great RB) but when they dumped Davis too I was worried the run game would be way to one sided. I still think they need to get that speed back that can turn the corner on a pitch when they are stacking the box.
I asked the same thing about Moore. I wonder if he is a terrible run blocker. That seems to be the only logic that I can think of as to why he isn't on the field all the time.
I also don't understand the lack of production out of Bell. I figured he would be able to step in and at least give Hillis a breather. I wasn't so worried when they dumped Harrison (although I still think he is a great RB) but when they dumped Davis too I was worried the run game would be way to one sided. I still think they need to get that speed back that can turn the corner on a pitch when they are stacking the box.
We had that, it was Jerome Harrison.
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