Time to defend Daboll, at least to SOME degree!

slowburn

Dabolls perfomance can defended statistically by evaluating the offensive numbers from last year. The rise isn't spectacular, but considering the challenges he's faced I feel he has earned to right to continue:

1. The QB merry-go-round due to injuries. He was challenged with designing specific offensive plays and developing an offensive game plans for three QB's. His starter, as determined in camp, was coming off

his worst year in the league. Wallace is a career back up who had yet to prove himself and Colt was a rookie with questionable potential. Not the best talent pool. Becuse of the ankle injuries early in the

season, I don't think he had the chance to develop a scheme that would take would focus on each QB's strengths and weaknesses. Not an excuse, but it explains a sometime unimaginative, watered down

offense.

2. His wide receivers aren't respected. Defenses are able to play single man coverage freeing up players to stack the line and/or blitz. The o line for the most part has done a decent job protecting the QB

and opening up lanes for Hillis, but as seen Sunday in Jacksonville when the running game breaks down the Brown's are dead in the water.

3. The running game needs a better one-two punch to keep the defense off balance.

It is difficult to make adjustments when your offfensive options are limited. For sake of continuity, let's see what Daboll can with a few more offensive weapons. Then we can better judge.

Speedyd900rr

I really wish we would of used Cribbs more in the running game. He has the potential to be a great RB. With him and Hillis in there, they would tire the opposing teams defense pretty quick imo.

WRREBEL

Listen as much as I don't like mangini or daboll, I believe they both probably should get the benefit of the doubt..

I mean how many other teams would have a winning record or a solid offense with the qb injuries we have had.. minus pitt who had guys who were played in there system and has a dominate d.

I think mangini will have to win 2 or 3 more games to save his job.

philbert79

@wrrebel said:
Listen as much as I don't like mangini or daboll, I believe they both probably should get the benefit of the doubt..
I mean how many other teams would have a winning record or a solid offense with the qb injuries we have had.. minus pitt who had guys who were played in there system and has a dominate d.

I think mangini will have to win 2 or 3 more games to save his job.

I'd agree if the QB play hadn't improved with each injury. Colt has played better than Seneca, who played better than Jake.

Slownurn: a poor craftsman blames his tools.

I agree with hx214 for the most part. A good coordinator would be able to win with what he's got. How would you know if you have the next Welker or Miles Austin if you don't try something different. The only part I don't agree with is your assessment of the RB situation. I think the Mike Bell acquisition made a lot of sense. You don't want 2 different types of runners. That will just tip them off as to what you're doing. And while Hillis doesn't have elite speed, he can out run most backers and is a match-up problem for DBs.

Harry Buffalo

@canton-mike said:
Daboll seems to be the target of the "FIRE HIM" group. This man has the most to work with of any of our Coordinators..Right?..
He has:

1) FANTASTIC WRs. HELP!!!...We have NO WRs.

2) A SOLID right side of the O-line..especially when a starter or 2 goes down. Pray for no more injuries!

3) A SOLID RB to spell Hillis without a huge drop off in production. If Hillis goes down, we're DEAD!

RIGHT??...Daboll does not have a whole lot with which to work.

WOW!...He has a real CAKE job!!! How can we lose?

I was not a fan of the Daboll hiring, but is it really fair to run him out of town at this point? Yes, he has made mistakes & WILL make mistakes, but he has also come up with some VERY creative calls. Looking at the season, I'm somewhat impressed with what he has done, especially considering the lack of tools at his disposal. If we address the 3 areas I mentioned above, THEN I believe we can look at the coaching aspect. I'm not saying he's great, but I'm also not willing to give up on him. Who among us can come forward & say this is an offense that is worse than we've seen the last 2 years. It is actually much better.

Here's League ranking for those who PRAISE Rob Ryan, yet FRY Daboll:

Total Yards.. Offense #28 Passing... Offense #30 Rushing... Offense #15

Defense #24 Defense #23 Defense #21

Not exactly a DOMINANT defense either, is it? My point is, WHY can we overlook Rob's mistakes & not Brian's? NEITHER has all the tools they need to excel. Now, our depth is MUCH improved & our top subs, along with some solid starters, have pushed our Special Teams to #1 (I believe I'm right?).

I beg of you, as Brown's Fans, to show more patience after a loss or even POOR performance. Personally, I am elated that we can still be cheering & hoping for a win late in virtually EVERY game this year. Given the staff & FO we have & the continued acquisition of more quality players, we WILL be winners.

The glass is 1/2 full...continuity will fill it.

Mike

Ryan's defense still finds ways to get the job done. We haven't let a team score more than 28 points all season, shutting down some of the best offenses. Hell our games against the saints and patriots weren't won by the offense, they were won by the defense. Our offense has been the reason for us losing all these games. You can't win too many games when your offense only scores on average 1.5 touchdowns a game.

professor_g

I'm a die-hard Daboll fan. We're 7-7 over the last 14 games because we've managed to piece together a legitimate running game with no-name backs and lack of stability on the line. For someone who loves to watch great running and run-blocking, this team can be a ton of fun. Let's just stop these painful, last-minute losses!

Canton Mike

I'm not badmouthing the D, but let's not say the D does ALL the adjusting & put all the negatives on the offense......just a few examples...

Ravens beat us 24-17

Boldin 8 catches for 142 yds & burns Wright for 3 easy TDs (that's 21 points folks!)...HOW did we adjust? Was Wright replaced?

Bengals.. we won 23-20

While possession was literally even (we had it 1 minute longer), Cinci amassed 413 yds, TO had 10 catches for 222 yds....had it NOT been for the offense with sustained drives, the D would have lost it.

Patriots...we won 34-14

We had possession 16 minutes LONGER than the Pats...while this was a well played game on both sides of the ball, it was the OFFENSE who kept Brady & the Pats offense OFF the field.....THAT was the key to that win.

I'm not badmouthing our D, but if you are unable to see the improvement in our offense as you've seen on D, you're not looking at the total picture. We still need a lot of help on BOTH sides of the ball. If the offense flounders, it's Daboll's fault. If the defense flounders, it's Mangini's fault.....That's all hogwash! The greatest Coaches & Coordinators in history can't win without the players. Don't tell me about the experience of COLLEGE WRs either...that means NOTHING once they hit the NFL.

Mike

philbert79

I didn't think you were badmouthing the D. I was just pointing out that the stats and coordinators shouldn't be compared to each other.

BUT, since you have now started to badmouth them, I feel somewhat compelled to defend them...

They didn't adjust in the Baltimore game and it cost us. But they did eventually replace Wright with Haden somewhere around the bye week.

Again, Wright was victimized in the Bengals game, and if I remember correctly, the big play came off Sheldon Brown tripping on TO's shoe, but you are correct... the offensive drives kept the Bengals offense off the field.

And they thoroughly dominated the Pats on both sides of the ball in the trenches. You don't think the defensive scheme in that game helped at all? Not to mention the fumble they forced on the goal line at the end of the first half that kept the Browns comfortably ahead at half time knowing they'd get the ball back to start the 3rd?

All that said, the games you've brought up go more to prove my point than contest it. In each of these games, the opposing defense could not stop Peyton Hillis. There were no adjustments needed on offense to maintain the lead and Hillis could just continue to run all over the other team. It's in this area that I've seen improvement in the play of the offense. When they're able to establish the run, their offense is a threat. If not, they seem lost. I have to put that on the guy with the headset on, calling the plays. If Daboll's not that guy, why is he there? If he is the guy, why is he still there?

My opinions on this subject are not based on a limited amount of games or situations. He's been the OC here for a year and a half now and I just don't think he's the guy that will develop the young talent we do have on this team to legitimate offensive threat.

All said and done, in Holmgren I trust. I'm confident he's going to put the right guy in place. I'd be surprised if Daboll's back next year. And if we don't see a massive improvement in the management of this offense, I don't know that he'll make it through the year. We shall see.

Canton Mike

P79,

Please don't get me wrong. The main point I make is that we really CAN'T judge the Coaches given the talent (or lack of) with which they have to work. It just seems like Daboll has become a "whipping boy" & I DO get tired of that. I don't know how how he will ultimately pan out, but he sure deserves more of a chance than some have given him. IMHO, we will NEVER be a contender if we continue with the "revolving door" for coaches. I have some criticisms for the coaching staff & here are some of mine...

1) WHY have we continued to play an obviously injured QB, RB, etc when we risk further injury to them AND usually sacrifice production? Examples would be DelHomme, Hillis, & Colt.

2) WHY don't we replace starters when they aren't getting it done, or try something different? Examples here are usage (lack of) of Evan Moore, trying Cribbs at RB (when healthy I think it would be his best position & a GREAT teaming with Hillis), sitting Wright completely for a couple games, Mitchell IN the passing game.

My argument for trying "unproven" skill players (other than O & D line) is that, like Colt, all through practice & pre season, these guys labored with 3rd & 4th teamers....Let's try 'em & SEE how they perform when lined up with the starters. This is my main criticism with our Coaching staff as a whole. Would I FIRE them because of it?.....NO! The Browns are playing better & harder than we've seen since they've been back, & I want that to continue. Replacing coaches at this point would kill the continuity & we all know how that can set us back. Let's stay the course & see what tomorrow brings.

BTW, I DID say that both sides of the ball played very well in the Pat's game. I simply mentioned, and rightly so, that keeping their offensive unit OFF the field was the key.

Mike

philbert79

I couldn't agree more with you about stopping the revolving door. Unfortunately I believe it starts by bringing different guys in that understand the front office's goals and guys that the front office trusts. I'm just not sure the staff we have is what Holmgren wants. I hear what you're saying about continuity, but what it will hurt more if we let the current situation carry on and pass on a better option to maintain continuity. I'm really torn between letting Daboll go now and letting him expose his true identity over the last few weeks this year. Wins aren't enough. He has to show that he has what it takes to call a game from behind and win it. This is not something we've been able to do the last 2 years. We just keep losing close games, this year's Bengals game being the exception.

I'm really not trying to make Daboll out to be the whipping boy. He just happens to be the weakest link in a rusty chain, in my opinion. I thought Mangini was gonna be a bust, but he's been ok. Ryan has been the brightest spot on this staff since coming in. The main reason I like Ryan so much is that he has what seems to be a tremendous repoir with everyone on the sideline. When I see Joe Thomas run up and chest bump Ryan after a big stop, that tells me they like having him around. Not that Daboll isn't getting the same treatment, it's just not as prevalent.

Again I totally agree with you about bringing in some other guys that Colt has worked with all year. Mitchell seems like an obvious choice as does Even Moore. I think part of the issue is that those guys don't get nearly as much time running their own offense as they do their upcoming opponent's as the scout team. Especially for the rookies. As for Cribbs qt tailback, I'm just not sure his body can hold up. We've seen him in this role a couple times and he didn't look comfortable with the reads. I like him at WR. He's shown a lot of improvement in his hands and I really think he can be a legitimate Z receiver in the mold of Larry Fitzgerald. This will protect his body a little better and still allow him to return kicks and run the Flash package.

Wright needs to get better now or go. I really miss Brandon McDonald. I understand the business side of things, but feel we sacrificed depth at DB. Ah well. Like you said, not worth firing them over. Besides it's really not their fault.

Great discussion. Thank you.