Mangini and Holmgren question?
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Im thinking mangini will be gone if he cant win at least 6-7 games, yes there has been decent progress with an insanely tough schedule but also unexceptionally bad letdowns and inconsistency brought on by fickle untrusting coaching/playcalling when unprepared subs inevitably have to take to the field or if something goes wrong we turtle up and lose...
Mangini often likes to blame the players but i think holmgren knows where the real issues are...
I can do with or without mangini, i dont like him or his system or his would be mentor belichick but i also dont like many of the other so called available coach options any better like fox for instance...
Its a tough call i wouldnt want to make...mangini is a mediocre skill factor vs the unknown factor of a new hire..
I would hope our next coach doesnt need on the job training and an idiot for an OC...
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Im thinking mangini will be gone if he cant win at least 6-7 games, yes there has been decent progress with an insanely tough schedule but also unexceptionally bad letdowns and inconsistency brought on by fickle untrusting coaching/playcalling when unprepared subs inevitably have to take to the field or if something goes wrong we turtle up and lose...
Mangini often likes to blame the players but i think holmgren knows where the real issues are...
I can do with or without mangini, i dont like him or his system or his would be mentor belichick but i also dont like many of the other so called available coach options any better like fox for instance...
Its a tough call i wouldnt want to make...mangini is a mediocre skill factor vs the unknown factor of a new hire..
I would hope our next coach doesnt need on the job training and an idiot for an OC...
Im thinking mangini will be gone if he cant win at least 6-7 games, yes there has been decent progress with an insanely tough schedule but also unexceptionally bad letdowns and inconsistency brought on by fickle untrusting coaching/playcalling when unprepared subs inevitably have to take to the field...
Mangini often likes to blame the players but i think holmgren knows where the real issues are...
I can do with or without mangini, i dont like him or his system or his would be mentor belichick but i also dont like many of the other so called available coach options any better like fox for instance...
Its a tough call i wouldnt want to make...known skill mediocrity vs the unknown factor..
How exactly is Mangini "often" blaming the players? Aside from this past weekend's comments about intensity in practice, please show me where he "often" does this.
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Its becoming more and more obvious that someone just has a severe bias against Mangini.
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Its becoming more and more obvious that someone just has a severe bias against Mangini.
Its becoming more and more obvious that someone just has a severe bias against Mangini.
Who?
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Its becoming more and more obvious that someone just has a severe bias against Mangini.
Who?
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I think we need to stop with the coaching talk till after the season.
If anything drastic is going to be changed, it won't happen till then.
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Why? Maybe we should wait for our mock draft speculation until after the season also..
I understand some people are drinking the coolaid, that doesn't bother me.. a bunch of real smart people followed david koresh too.
Why? Maybe we should wait for our mock draft speculation until after the season also..
I understand some people are drinking the coolaid, that doesn't bother me.. a bunch of real smart people followed david koresh too.
The point was that we still have 5 weeks left. Why don't we see how the team finishes before we throw him under the bus?
The Browns are light years ahead of what they were last year and they are still lacking in some spots. You really couldn't have expected us to magically transform into a playoff contending team in one year, did you? It happens, but this roster still needs tweaked. Like I said in another thread, I'd much rather have us win consistently then just one season and go back to being in the NFL basement like the Bengals or Cardinals have done.
I'm not drinking any Kool-aid, if I was I'd want Mangini here whether he won or lost. I like what Mangini has done and would like for him to remain our coach but if he gets fired/leaves/whatever I will still be a Cleveland Browns fan. I'm just tired of the constant coaching carousel with this organization. I'd like to see what some stability does here instead of the "well, he didn't take us to the Playoffs/Super Bowl in a year.... who's next in the coaching phonebook?" crap that I've had to read all year.
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I understand what your saying.. The problem is we didnt hire, Chris Palmer, Butch davis and Romeo Crennel(the lerners did). None of those guys were any good and two out of the three wouldnt make the play offs if they had ten years of stability..
You dont keep a coach because you want stability, you keep a coach because you firmly beleive he is the right person going forward..
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I understand what your saying.. The problem is we didnt hire, Chris Palmer, Butch davis and Romeo Crennel(the lerners did). None of those guys were any good and two out of the three wouldnt make the play offs if they had ten years of stability..
You dont keep a coach because you want stability, you keep a coach because you firmly beleive he is the right person going forward..
I understand what your saying.. The problem is we didnt hire, Chris Palmer, Butch davis and Romeo Crennel(the lerners did). None of those guys were any good and two out of the three wouldnt make the play offs if they had ten years of stability..
You dont keep a coach because you want stability, you keep a coach because you firmly beleive he is the right person going forward..
You make good points and I wasn't trying to attack you or anything. I would like to see how we finish out the year and at least one more season.
Heckert and Holmgren did great this past off-season, imo, I'd like to see what they do with one more and how it looks on the field before I say we need a coaching change.
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I think Mangini should be back if he gets to 6 or 7 wins. I know I am not a Mangini supporter but this is just a question.
Do you think Mangini and Holmgren can succeed together?
To me, with Holmgrens itch to coach again always has Mangini looking over his shoulder. I think the face of your franchise should be your coach and not the guy in charge of football operations.
How do people really see this playing out? I don't see holmgren staying in his position that long ( 2-3) years. He will either coach here or leave to coach another team. If mangini coaches next year, if they start off slow you really think he will keep his job the whole season?
I for one would like to see a coach with intensity and not so docile.. Just my opionion but chucky would be great!
"in jon we trust"
I think Mangini should be back if he gets to 6 or 7 wins. I know I am not a Mangini supporter but this is just a question.
Do you think Mangini and Holmgren can succeed together?
Yes
To me, with Holmgrens itch to coach again always has Mangini looking over his shoulder. I think the face of your franchise should be your coach and not the guy in charge of football operations.
Tell that to Jerry Jones.
On a serious note, Polian in Indy or Pioli in KC. I couldn't name their coaches now without looking it up. How do people really see this playing out? I don't see holmgren staying in his position that long ( 2-3) years. He will either coach here or leave to coach another team. If mangini coaches next year, if they start off slow you really think he will keep his job the whole season?
Holmgren may only work a couple more years, but I doubt he'll get back on the sideline. As to Mangini's status, see below.
I for one would like to see a coach with intensity and not so docile.. Just my opionion but chucky would be great!
"in jon we trust"
Is that anything like "in Savage we trust?"
My comment to the "Dump Mangini Now" crowd is the fanbase has finally run out of patience- so take a chill pill already. Take a look at the franchises that have been relatively successful over the long haul- and they have one common denominator- stability either in the front office or the coaching staff. The Steelers have had 3 coaches in the last 42 years- the Browns have had 4 (5 if you want to count Robiski) in the last 10.
Well, IMHO it's time to get off the "fire the coach" carousel and give Mangini a fair shot. The short attention spans around here apparently don't (or don't want to) remember much about Romeo or Butch- and IMHO EM is far better than either. Some of the coaching legends- Noll- Landry- Belichick fared rather poorly their first couple of years.
Secondly- Holmgren has to give Eric a fair amount of slack- mainly because Mike was the guy who brought in Jake (I about single handed lost two games) Delhomme. LOL, you think all those game changing pick sixes were Mangini's fault?
Third- Holmgren's on record that the team was too talent depleted to turn things around in a year- so the only thing he can judge Mangini on is if he did a good ENOUGH job with the talent H&H provided. (and yeah, I think he has- I'm not seeing 5-6 Browns making the Pro Bowl this year & FWIW the Browns still don't have a LBer that could start for the Steelers.)
Now I'll move on to Chucky Gruden. Pluses- He's an Ohio guy, born in Sandusky (his dad is a huge Browns fan) went to the University of Dayton. Won a Super Bowl and is considered a good coach. Minuses- went downhill after the SB year. Seems to be happy announcing.
Now you don't have to be a "fiery" coach to motivate your players- and in fact most of those types "flame out". The only one I can think of off the top of my head that did it for any extended period was Bill Cowher. Yup, Mangini has the "stoic" approach on the sidelines- but then again so does his mentor- Bill Belichick. And Paul Brown and Tom Landry weren't exactly balls of fire as coaches- and they certainly won more than their share of games.
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I don't bring any heavy baggage either way... but I don't think Holmgren ever intended to continue with somebody else's systems and a coach he didn't hire unless the Browns went at least 8-8 on an upward trend (winning a couple at the end). Forced to bet, I'd say Holmgren would LOVE to bring in Gruden and run his WCO with McCoy, Hillis, Vickers, A.J., Massoquoi, Watson, and Moore, all of whom fit it really well.
I think it'll happen sooner than later if it happens, like the week after the season ends.
I don't bring any heavy baggage either way... but I don't think Holmgren ever intended to continue with somebody else's systems and a coach he didn't hire unless the Browns went at least 8-8 on an upward trend (winning a couple at the end). Forced to bet, I'd say Holmgren would LOVE to bring in Gruden and run his WCO with McCoy, Hillis, Vickers, A.J., Massoquoi, Watson, and Moore, all of whom fit it really well.
I think it'll happen sooner than later if it happens, like the week after the season ends.
Personally, I would much rather continue with Mangini than start over again with Gruden. The difference in the intensity and energy of this team is obvious since Mangini took over. I always liked Gruden, and hoped he would be the coach, here. My views have changed, watching this team over the course of the season. We haven't seen a coach this good on this team since the 90's, in my opinion. I don't want Holmgren to coach the team, either. If I had my choice between who stays and who leaves...well, Holmgren can move on. I would prefer they both co exist here, but I don't think it will happen. If Mangini is gone at the end of the season, it will be a huge mistake....no matter who they bring in.
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I think Mangini should be back if he gets to 6 or 7 wins. I know I am not a Mangini supporter but this is just a question.
Do you think Mangini and Holmgren can succeed together?
Yes
To me, with Holmgrens itch to coach again always has Mangini looking over his shoulder. I think the face of your franchise should be your coach and not the guy in charge of football operations.
Tell that to Jerry Jones.
On a serious note, Polian in Indy or Pioli in KC. I couldn't name their coaches now without looking it up. How do people really see this playing out? I don't see holmgren staying in his position that long ( 2-3) years. He will either coach here or leave to coach another team. If mangini coaches next year, if they start off slow you really think he will keep his job the whole season?
Holmgren may only work a couple more years, but I doubt he'll get back on the sideline. As to Mangini's status, see below.
I for one would like to see a coach with intensity and not so docile.. Just my opionion but chucky would be great!
"in jon we trust"
Is that anything like "in Savage we trust?"
My comment to the "Dump Mangini Now" crowd is the fanbase has finally run out of patience- so take a chill pill already. Take a look at the franchises that have been relatively successful over the long haul- and they have one common denominator- stability either in the front office or the coaching staff. The Steelers have had 3 coaches in the last 42 years- the Browns have had 4 (5 if you want to count Robiski) in the last 10.
Well, IMHO it's time to get off the "fire the coach" carousel and give Mangini a fair shot. The short attention spans around here apparently don't (or don't want to) remember much about Romeo or Butch- and IMHO EM is far better than either. Some of the coaching legends- Noll- Landry- Belichick fared rather poorly their first couple of years.
Secondly- Holmgren has to give Eric a fair amount of slack- mainly because Mike was the guy who brought in Jake (I about single handed lost two games) Delhomme. LOL, you think all those game changing pick sixes were Mangini's fault?
Third- Holmgren's on record that the team was too talent depleted to turn things around in a year- so the only thing he can judge Mangini on is if he did a good ENOUGH job with the talent H&H provided. (and yeah, I think he has- I'm not seeing 5-6 Browns making the Pro Bowl this year & FWIW the Browns still don't have a LBer that could start for the Steelers.)
Now I'll move on to Chucky Gruden. Pluses- He's an Ohio guy, born in Sandusky (his dad is a huge Browns fan) went to the University of Dayton. Won a Super Bowl and is considered a good coach. Minuses- went downhill after the SB year. Seems to be happy announcing.
Now you don't have to be a "fiery" coach to motivate your players- and in fact most of those types "flame out". The only one I can think of off the top of my head that did it for any extended period was Bill Cowher. Yup, Mangini has the "stoic" approach on the sidelines- but then again so does his mentor- Bill Belichick. And Paul Brown and Tom Landry weren't exactly balls of fire as coaches- and they certainly won more than their share of games.
My comment to the "Dump Mangini Now" crowd is the fanbase has finally run out of patience- so take a chill pill already. Take a look at the franchises that have been relatively successful over the long haul- and they have one common denominator- stability either in the front office or the coaching staff. The Steelers have had 3 coaches in the last 42 years- the Browns have had 4 (5 if you want to count Robiski) in the last 10.
Well, IMHO it's time to get off the "fire the coach" carousel and give Mangini a fair shot. The short attention spans around here apparently don't (or don't want to) remember much about Romeo or Butch- and IMHO EM is far better than either. Some of the coaching legends- Noll- Landry- Belichick fared rather poorly their first couple of years.
Secondly- Holmgren has to give Eric a fair amount of slack- mainly because Mike was the guy who brought in Jake (I about single handed lost two games) Delhomme. LOL, you think all those game changing pick sixes were Mangini's fault?
Third- Holmgren's on record that the team was too talent depleted to turn things around in a year- so the only thing he can judge Mangini on is if he did a good ENOUGH job with the talent H&H provided. (and yeah, I think he has- I'm not seeing 5-6 Browns making the Pro Bowl this year & FWIW the Browns still don't have a LBer that could start for the Steelers.)
Now I'll move on to Chucky Gruden. Pluses- He's an Ohio guy, born in Sandusky (his dad is a huge Browns fan) went to the University of Dayton. Won a Super Bowl and is considered a good coach. Minuses- went downhill after the SB year. Seems to be happy announcing.
Now you don't have to be a "fiery" coach to motivate your players- and in fact most of those types "flame out". The only one I can think of off the top of my head that did it for any extended period was Bill Cowher. Yup, Mangini has the "stoic" approach on the sidelines- but then again so does his mentor- Bill Belichick. And Paul Brown and Tom Landry weren't exactly balls of fire as coaches- and they certainly won more than their share of games.
Just because Landry, Brown, Belichick and Mangini are/were "stoic" on the sidelines, that doesn't mean they aren't or weren't fiery in the lockerroom. If you're too excitable on the sidelines, you make bad decisions.
Your point about Holmgren's admission that this team lacks talent is important but it also presumes that he hasn't changed his mind. Perhaps after seeing his team "hang with the big boys" for three weeks, he's changed his mind and changed the rules on Mangini mid-stream. It would be pulling the rug out from underneath him and a bush league move in my opinion but he has the position in the organization that allows him to change his mind. It wouldn't sit right with me that he would do it that way but it's not impossible.
I personally HATE talking about the "next" coach while the first one is still employed. It's just rude. It also speaks to the idea that unless your team is top echelon (and sometimes not even then...) the grass always seems to look greener somewhere else. The fans want the sexy choice and they're willing to convince themselves that it won't destroy their progress.
Don't drool over Christie Brinkley when Beverly D'Angelo can get hot enough at home.
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1) people need to get off gruden's dick.
2) holmgren isn't coaching again.
3) most owners/pres aren't going to make coaching changes after the season as there might be a lockout and what.......you're going to bring in a new guy (again) with a new system in august?
gruden is a punk. we used to kick his ass in school back in my hometown every day for his lunch money.
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Gruden is a great coach, probably going to miami u.
So weird how people confuse a 4 and 7 record with being a top team. I'm not saying we have to make the play offs but 8 and 8 or 7 and 9 would be ok.
Mangini will either be fired at the end of the year or next year.. I don't understand, were 4 and 7 and hyped up on a coach.
Mangini record 32 and 43 no superbowls or play off wins
Gruden, 95 and 81, a superbowl ring..
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Gruden is a great coach, probably going to miami u.
So weird how people confuse a 4 and 7 record with being a top team. I'm not saying we have to make the play offs but 8 and 8 or 7 and 9 would be ok.
Mangini will either be fired at the end of the year or next year.. I don't understand, were 4 and 7 and hyped up on a coach.
Mangini record 32 and 43 no superbowls or play off wins
Gruden, 95 and 81, a superbowl ring..
Gruden is a great coach, probably going to miami u.
So weird how people confuse a 4 and 7 record with being a top team. I'm not saying we have to make the play offs but 8 and 8 or 7 and 9 would be ok.
Mangini will either be fired at the end of the year or next year.. I don't understand, were 4 and 7 and hyped up on a coach.
Mangini record 32 and 43 no superbowls or play off wins
Gruden, 95 and 81, a superbowl ring..
it's not that a lot of us are all hyped up on our coach it's that we want to finally give a guy a chance. it's not like crennel and that FO that sucked....it's about showing improvement across the board. tell me we aren't playing better than we have in years? so just scrap everything, wipe the slate clean and start all over because there's a coach out there that you think is better? c'mon now.
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