Let's Go Ravens!

Slurp and Burp

Steelers and Browns have met twice in the playoffs. Guess who won both of them?

BROWNandORANGE

Surf and Turf said:
Steelers and Browns have met twice in the playoffs. Guess who won both of them?

you clearly avoided the question.

The Gipper

Colt12 said:
Ahh, gotta love the Ferris Bueller reference.

Ferris Beuhler combined with The Longest Yard.

The Gipper

Surf and Turf said:
oh my god! you beat the Steelers during a regular season and a down year for Pittsburgh. so what.
If you were any type of team you'd be competing with the Steelers and Ravens for Division championships every year. Have fun with your regular season win last year. Browns football is simply amazing. LOL

It wasn't a down year for the Steelers until the Browns beat them.

And be careful what you ask for. The Browns days will be coming.

The Gipper

Surf and Turf said:
Steelers and Browns have met twice in the playoffs. Guess who won both of them?

Dennis Northcutt's dropped easy pass saw to it that the Steeler's have won them both. So, you got lucky that day.

Vagitron

@the-gipper said:
It wasn't a down year for the Steelers until the Browns beat them.
And be careful what you ask for. The Browns days will be coming
.

Are you being serious? It was the most heinous skid this decade so yes it was a down year WELL before we played the Stains. (Stains = keeping with board theme) We started 6-2 and finished 9-7. Yea I'd say it was a down year.

The Gipper

Homotron said:
Are you being serious? It was the most heinous skid this decade so yes it was a down year WELL before we played the Stains. (Stains = keeping with board theme) We started 6-2 and finished 9-7. Yea I'd say it was a down year.

OK, apparently you are right. The Browns loss came at the end of a 5 game losing streak. I was thinking it came at the beginning of it.

Captain Cheesedick

yes the Ravens are the Browns. Say what you like. The owner of the Browns took them and moved them to Balt. That is fact.

Sorry. But that's the way it happened. If not, what happened to the Browns for those few years. They quit?

Captain Cheesedick

@the-gipper said:
Dennis Northcutt's dropped easy pass saw to it that the Steeler's have won them both. So, you got lucky that day.

It's this kind of thinking that gives fans of the Browns, who really understand football, a bad name.

The Gipper

The Soldier said:
yes the Ravens are the Browns. Say what you like. The owner of the Browns took them and moved them to Balt. That is fact.
Sorry. But that's the way it happened. If not, what happened to the Browns for those few years. They quit?

You don't have a faking goddamn idea what you are talking about. Yes, as a matter of fact the Browns were "inactive".

It is not a matter of saying what I like, it is a matter of stating the facts.

1 more season

The Soldier said:
yes the Ravens are the Browns. Say what you like. The owner of the Browns took them and moved them to Balt. That is fact.
Sorry. But that's the way it happened. If not, what happened to the Browns for those few years. They quit?

And the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.... Idiot.

The Gipper

The Soldier said:
It's this kind of thinking that gives fans of the Browns, who really understand football, a bad name.

WTF are you talking about. It is a pucking fact that if in that playoff game in the 2002 season that the Browns had a 33-28 lead with like less than 2 minutes to go. The Browns had the ball, they had 3rd down, and a pass was thrown to Northcutt that was right in his hands, but he dropped it. It was not stripped, he was not hit, he dropped it. That would have given the Browns a 1st down. They could have then probably just taken a couple or 3 knees and the game would have been over with the Browns victorious. Instead, they had to punt and Pittsburgh was able to go down and score the winning TD with like under a minute to go in the game.

Beyond that, in fact the Browns had a 17 point lead midway through the 3rd quarter.....and Butch Davis decided then and there to begin to go into the "prevent" defense....and of course they lost their aggressiveness in the game and it, naturally "prevented" a Browns victory.

What is it about THIS that YOU don't understand?

The Gipper

I couldn't find a video of the play, but here is a description of the end of that game from ESPN.com:

Maddox gave the Steelers a chance, leading a 77-yard drive that ended with his 5-yard scoring pass to Hines Ward with 3:06 left, cutting the deficit to 33-28.

Even then, the Browns needed only a first down or two to run it out.

"I don't think anybody in the building thought we weren't going to win,'' Holcomb said. "I think everybody thought we were going to go on.''

But Northcutt, who had made big play after big play with two scoring catches and a long punt return, couldn't hold onto a throw from Holcomb on third-and-12 and the Browns punted.

"I just dropped it, plain and simple,'' Northcutt said.

With Pittsburgh in a score-or-go home situation, Maddox found Plaxico Burress for 24 yards, Hines Ward for 10, Burress again for 17 and Ward for 7. Fuamatu-Ma'afala, filling the role Jerome Bettis usually plays when he's not hurting with a sore knee, then powered up the middle from the 3 to score.

The game ended with Holcomb's 16-yard completion to Andre King at the Steelers 29 as the Browns couldn't get into range for a possible tying field goal.

Captain Cheesedick

@the-gipper said:
You don't have a faking goddamn idea what you are talking about. Yes, as a matter of fact the Browns were "inactive".
It is not a matter of saying what I like, it is a matter of stating the facts
.

You can play around with the words all you want. Art Model owned the Browns and moved his team to Balt. The team moved to Baltimore. Simple. We argued and yelled, so the league made some concessions so we could call the new cleveland team the Browns and keep the history. This happened AFTER the Browns moved to Baltimore.

The NFL threw us a bone.

If you want to believe Model took a bunch of random football players, broke leases with the city of Cleveland, took this random group of players and made a contact with the city of Baltimore for this group to play the next season in that city, most of these players just happening to be Browns players, and the city of Cleveland decided to "deactivate" the Browns for a few years. Go right ahead.

OrangeHelmet-UK

The Soldier said:
yes the Ravens are the Browns. Say what you like. The owner of the Browns took them and moved them to Balt. That is fact.
Sorry. But that's the way it happened. If not, what happened to the Browns for those few years. They quit?

.....Otto Graham wasn't the Cleveland Browns.. .Jim Brown wasn't the Cleveland Browns.. Bernie Kosar wasn't the Cleveland Browns. and that group of players modell whisked off to Baltimore definitely wasn't the Cleveland Browns !!!!

Players come & go .. but the franchise remains IN CLEVELAND.......otherwise they would have been the Baltimore Browns wouldn't they...............

The Gipper

The Soldier said:
You can play around with the words all you want. Art Model owned the Browns and moved his team to Balt. The team moved to Baltimore. Simple.
By no means is it that simple, stupid. The Cleveland Browns franchise did NOT move. The Cleveland Browns corporation did not move.

I don't necessarily want to give you a legal lecture about corporate asset transfers, or specific performance, or whatever other legal aspects apply to this matter, but I will if you are willing to pre-pay my retainer.

We argued and yelled, so the league made some concessions so we could call the new cleveland team the Browns and keep the history. This happened AFTER the Browns moved to Baltimore.

The NFL threw us a bone.

The NFL didn't throw us a bone, the NFL was hit across the head with a bone like a 2X4 hits a mule across the head.

If you want to believe Model took a bunch of random football players, broke leases with the city of Cleveland, took this random group of players and made a contact with the city of Baltimore for this group to play the next season in that city, most of these players just happening to be Browns players, and the city of Cleveland decided to "deactivate" the Browns for a few years. Go right ahead.

It is not an issue of what I believe. It is an issue of historical and legal fact. What you describe is exactly what happened. It isn't a matter of my opinion.

My opinion is a matter of subjectivity. What happened with the Browns is not a subjective matter, it is a factual matter.

You can't state an opinion as a fact and claim to be right. Just because you think the earth is flat does not make it flat.

Captain Cheesedick

So, in 1995, it didn't bother you at all when Model moved the, I guess, Ravens, from Cleveland to Baltimore? (using your logic)

You were ok with this. He's not moving the Browns. The Browns are going to take a break for some odd reason, and Model is moving the Ravens to Baltimore.

Why would all of Cleveland be upset with Modell? He didn't do anything?

Never heard of a team "deactivating" themselves.

What happened to the players? They were on the Browns in 1995 and then the Ravens in 1996. Did they get traded? All sign as free agents? Where did the Browns go? Disappear?

Now, I understand, the revisionist legal thing that was done to give the history and colors, etc back to Cleveland. But in reality, come on.

Semantics.

miktoxic

The Soldier said:
So, in 1995, it didn't bother you at all when Model moved the, I guess, Ravens, from Cleveland to Baltimore? (using your logic)
You were ok with this. He's not moving the Browns. The Browns are going to take a break for some odd reason, and Model is moving the Ravens to Baltimore.

Why would all of Cleveland be upset with Modell? He didn't do anything?

Never heard of a team "deactivating" themselves.

What happened to the players? They were on the Browns in 1995 and then the Ravens in 1996. Did they get traded? All sign as free agents? Where did the Browns go? Disappear?

Now, I understand, the revisionist legal thing that was done to give the history and colors, etc back to Cleveland. But in reality, come on.

Semantics.

i smell a steeler's troll. poser.

The Gipper

The Soldier said:
So, in 1995, it didn't bother you at all when Model moved the, I guess, Ravens, from Cleveland to Baltimore? (using your logic)
You were ok with this. He's not moving the Browns. The Browns are going to take a break for some odd reason, and Model is moving the Ravens to Baltimore.

Why would all of Cleveland be upset with Modell? He didn't do anything?

Never heard of a team "deactivating" themselves.

What happened to the players? They were on the Browns in 1995 and then the Ravens in 1996. Did they get traded? All sign as free agents? Where did the Browns go? Disappear?

Now, I understand, the revisionist legal thing that was done to give the history and colors, etc back to Cleveland. But in reality, come on.

Semantics.

It is not semantics. There were substantive legal issues at play here. Clearly, however, you don't have a F**king clue, and you capparently don't give a damn about what the facts are, but you are still going to get them: .

There was no "revisionist" legal thing.

The Ravens never existed as an NFL franchise until the settlement of the legal matters was resolved.

The Ravens never moved. They were created as a new expansion franchise entity in Baltimore, and the ownership was assigned to Art Modell.

The entity known as the Cleveland Browns franchise went into trust with the NFL. They didn't deactivate themselves, they were deactivated by the NFL pursuant to the settlement arrangement. Don't you remember Bill Futterer being the head of the Cleveland Browns Trust? The NFL held the franchise in trust until they decided how to reconstitute it and how to sell it to a new owner.

As for the players being traded.....in a certain sense you could call it that. Their contracts were 'assigned' from the Cleveland Browns franchise to the Baltimore Ravens franchise, essentially exactly like what happens when a trade is made.

Were you even alive when all this happened? You seem so clueless about it I have to believe you weren't.

My God, this is an old, well know story. Why are you just now catching up with it?

OrangeHelmet-UK

The Soldier said:
So, in 1995, it didn't bother you at all when Model moved the, I guess, Ravens, from Cleveland to Baltimore? (using your logic)
You were ok with this. He's not moving the Browns. The Browns are going to take a break for some odd reason, and Model is moving the Ravens to Baltimore.

Why would all of Cleveland be upset with Modell? He didn't do anything?

Never heard of a team "deactivating" themselves.

What happened to the players? They were on the Browns in 1995 and then the Ravens in 1996. Did they get traded? All sign as free agents? Where did the Browns go? Disappear?

Now, I understand, the revisionist legal thing that was done to give the history and colors, etc back to Cleveland. But in reality, come on.

Semantics.

Look its quite simple...........in 1995 Art Modell TRIED to move the Cleveland Browns franchise to Baltimore... that's the reason all of Cleveland was upset with him . The city of Cleveland fought the move . and won . So the Cleveland Browns Franchise Stayed in Cleveland...ideally we would have liked to have kept the players and competed in the 1996 season as the Browns. but at the time just keeping the Browns name and colors and history was good enough. the players left and automatically became employed by the Baltimore Ravens...........so using your logic if the ravens ( players )would have won the SB that first season that would have been a Cleveland Browns winning team only in different colors . in a different City????....?????