You guys listening to Gruden on MNF?
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Give it up man no one here wants to see Gruden were all satisfied with the foundation that magaini is putting together, leave your personal opionons to yourself
Actually, personal opinions are what a board's all about. Disagreeing, debating, etc. We're not drones falling in behind Mangini. We're here to cheer AND bitch. We've sure as hell earned the right.
And also... you don't get that Rebel's overstating for the sake of fun? Some good-natured needling?
Finally... yes, plenty of Browns fans would love to ditch Mangini for Gruden. Don't talk yourself into believing otherwise. Gruden not only is the way more accomplished coach, he's a much more entertaining face of the franchise guy. And I don't hate Mangini at all. I just don't love him, either, and I'm not sure I see him as a future Super Bowl coach.
For one thing, Mangini was happy going into a Jets season with Kellen Clemens as his starter. He seems fond of Jake Delhomme. He clearly doesn't understand that you MUST have a Top 10 type of quarterback (or a guy who COULD be top 10 in any year) to compete in today's NFL. An adequate quarterback isn't. We're competing with teams that field Brees, Big Ben, Brady, Manning, Rivers, Rodgers and guys like that... guys who CAN close games and drag a team behind them when necessary.
Kyle Orton is never gonna be that guy. Jake Delhomme was that guy for one year. Ryan Fitzpatrick isn't gonna be that guy. I sincerely doubt that Matt Cassell is gonna be that guy. Bruce Gradkowski isn't that guy. Same for T-Jack. These are all Washington Generals teams. My fear is that Mangini simply doesn't understand that and believes he can go into a game with a plan to run Hillis 40 times and play defense and win.
It won't work... unless 7-9 every year is working. The Rams had Stephen Jackson and sucked ass. They got Bradford and now they'll be winners for the next decade. That's the league we play in.
Gruden talks about it constantly: Until you have a serious quarterback, you have nothing. You're serving a plate with broccoli and potatoes with a glass of wine to the side. The program is about getting that guy... and then it shifts to making it work with that guy for 10-12 years. I like hearing that.
Actually, personal opinions are what a board's all about. Disagreeing, debating, etc. We're not drones falling in behind Mangini. We're here to cheer AND bitch. We've sure as hell earned the right.
And also... you don't get that Rebel's overstating for the sake of fun? Some good-natured needling?
Finally... yes, plenty of Browns fans would love to ditch Mangini for Gruden. Don't talk yourself into believing otherwise. Gruden not only is the way more accomplished coach, he's a much more entertaining face of the franchise guy. And I don't hate Mangini at all. I just don't love him, either, and I'm not sure I see him as a future Super Bowl coach.
For one thing, Mangini was happy going into a Jets season with Kellen Clemens as his starter. He seems fond of Jake Delhomme. He clearly doesn't understand that you MUST have a Top 10 type of quarterback (or a guy who COULD be top 10 in any year) to compete in today's NFL. An adequate quarterback isn't. We're competing with teams that field Brees, Big Ben, Brady, Manning, Rivers, Rodgers and guys like that... guys who CAN close games and drag a team behind them when necessary.
Kyle Orton is never gonna be that guy. Jake Delhomme was that guy for one year. Ryan Fitzpatrick isn't gonna be that guy. I sincerely doubt that Matt Cassell is gonna be that guy. Bruce Gradkowski isn't that guy. Same for T-Jack. These are all Washington Generals teams. My fear is that Mangini simply doesn't understand that and believes he can go into a game with a plan to run Hillis 40 times and play defense and win.
It won't work... unless 7-9 every year is working. The Rams had Stephen Jackson and sucked ass. They got Bradford and now they'll be winners for the next decade. That's the league we play in.
Gruden talks about it constantly: Until you have a serious quarterback, you have nothing. You're serving a plate with broccoli and potatoes with a glass of wine to the side. The program is about getting that guy... and then it shifts to making it work with that guy for 10-12 years. I like hearing that.
Now, now Shepster. Us old timers happen to know you share Gruden's opinion about quarterbacks- in spades. And I'll disagree with you about Fitzpatrick. BTW, my qb IQ was 100% better than yours in evaluating Joey Harrington.
I do agree we're seeing a very disturbing trend with Mangini regarding quarterbacks- and it wasn't just Clemens. He stuck with a wounded Bret Farve that cost him his job in NY, and if he's not careful, sticking with a totally washed up Jake Delhomme will do the same in Cleveland. Pray hourly that McCoy is healthy enough to start Sunday against the Bengals.
It's not just the qb position either. Hayden should have been starting way earlier. I daresay Joe could have done a better job than Wright in the Ravens game- hell- most high school cornerbacks could have done better in that game.
That said, even with his shortcomings, I want to see Mangini get one more season to prove if he has it or not. And I did see one suggestion I could live with dump Daboll and bring in McDaniels as OC. Agreed, you can't win consistently in today's NFL playing turtle-ball. But then you have to have the horses at WR to stretch the field. Look for that to be addressed early and often next year.
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Here's how Gruden's QBs have ranked in the league in terms of passer rating:
2001: #2 (Rich Gannon)2002: #3 (Brad Johnson)2003: #12 (Brad Johnson)2004: #6 (Brian Griese)2005: #19 (Chris Simms)2006: #31 (Bruce Gradkowski)2007: #7 (Jeff Garcia)2008: #9 (Jeff Garcia)The numbers suggest -- as many people have claimed -- that Gruden's better at working with veteran QBs: Simms and Gradkowski are the two younguns in the group.
Also, it shows that Gruden managed to get top 10 QBRs out of guys some here wouldn't consider "Top Ten" or "Elite" or "Serious" QBs.
Optimally, every team would have a Peyton Manning, but you hire a guy like Gruden because he can the most out of your QB, not because he's going to find you a Tom Brady. I bet he'd do very well with a guy like Matt Cassel...maybe, if he isn't purely a vet QB coach, Colt McCoy.
Here's how Gruden's QBs have ranked in the league in terms of passer rating:
2001: #2 (Rich Gannon)2002: #3 (Brad Johnson)2003: #12 (Brad Johnson)2004: #6 (Brian Griese)2005: #19 (Chris Simms)2006: #31 (Bruce Gradkowski)2007: #7 (Jeff Garcia)2008: #9 (Jeff Garcia)The numbers suggest -- as many people have claimed -- that Gruden's better at working with veteran QBs: Simms and Gradkowski are the two younguns in the group.
Also, it shows that Gruden managed to get top 10 QBRs out of guys some here wouldn't consider "Top Ten" or "Elite" or "Serious" QBs.
Optimally, every team would have a Peyton Manning, but you hire a guy like Gruden because he can the most out of your QB, not because he's going to find you a Tom Brady. I bet he'd do very well with a guy like Matt Cassel...maybe, if he isn't purely a vet QB coach, Colt McCoy.
Another way to look at it: If Gruden can get those rankings out of mostly journeymen... imagine what he could do with a serious talent.
In that recent article, he said he realizes now more than ever that a team is built around a quarterback and that "everything else is easier."
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I can tell by Jaws's tone of voice that he will be a QB in the league in the near future
I can tell by Jaws's tone of voice that he will be a QB in the league in the near future
yeah its 1982 all over again
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I just tweeted to Gruden and he told me not to share anything more about "that guys" plan!
I just tweeted to Gruden and he told me not to share anything more about "that guys" plan!
Twitter is gay. You follow somebody or somebody follows you? That is by far the most ignorant thing I have ever heard of. I couldn't give 2 shits about what some idiot has to tweet about.
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Give it up man no one here wants to see Gruden were all satisfied with the foundation that magaini is putting together, leave your personal opionons to yourself
Give it up man no one here wants to see Gruden were all satisfied with the foundation that magaini is putting together, leave your personal opionons to yourself
Speak for yourself but dont put words in my mouth, mangini sucks and cant be fired soon enough imho, however im not so sure gruden is the answer either but i like him and even homeless dogs better than mangini...
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No disrespect to Gruden but it seems like he loves having way to many QBs on his team trying to find the right one and basically thats all we've gone through here in the Cleveland the past 10 years i dont want another QB carousel and want someone who puts there full Offense scheme around Hillis and McCoy
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So are you 2 sharing underwear now?
If we hire him I guess I'll live with it (maybe), but people like you are gonna make it difficult.yeah because if god forbid mangini gets the axe and we do hire gruden...all the fly by night stupid asses will call for HIS head if he doesn't take the team to a super bowl in the first year.
i really think that there is an age difference on this board. the people that have been around for a while have learned to deal with reality and calm the FFFF down. the guys who are screamin about change CHANGE change have yet to learn that all you're doing by bitching and complaining and not being satisfied will only get you one foot closer to the grave. bet they can't drive a block without screaming out the window.
yeah because if god forbid mangini gets the axe and we do hire gruden...all the fly by night stupid asses will call for HIS head if he doesn't take the team to a super bowl in the first year.
i really think that there is an age difference on this board. the people that have been around for a while have learned to deal with reality and calm the FFFF down. the guys who are screamin about change CHANGE change have yet to learn that all you're doing by bitching and complaining and not being satisfied will only get you one foot closer to the grave. bet they can't drive a block without screaming out the window.
I agree. I still don't miss Romeo and I wont miss Daboll either.
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Give it up man no one here wants to see Gruden were all satisfied with the foundation that magaini is putting together, leave your personal opionons to yourself
Actually, personal opinions are what a board's all about. Disagreeing, debating, etc. We're not drones falling in behind Mangini. We're here to cheer AND bitch. We've sure as hell earned the right.
And also... you don't get that Rebel's overstating for the sake of fun? Some good-natured needling?
Finally... yes, plenty of Browns fans would love to ditch Mangini for Gruden. Don't talk yourself into believing otherwise. Gruden not only is the way more accomplished coach, he's a much more entertaining face of the franchise guy. And I don't hate Mangini at all. I just don't love him, either, and I'm not sure I see him as a future Super Bowl coach.
For one thing, Mangini was happy going into a Jets season with Kellen Clemens as his starter. He seems fond of Jake Delhomme. He clearly doesn't understand that you MUST have a Top 10 type of quarterback (or a guy who COULD be top 10 in any year) to compete in today's NFL. An adequate quarterback isn't. We're competing with teams that field Brees, Big Ben, Brady, Manning, Rivers, Rodgers and guys like that... guys who CAN close games and drag a team behind them when necessary.
Kyle Orton is never gonna be that guy. Jake Delhomme was that guy for one year. Ryan Fitzpatrick isn't gonna be that guy. I sincerely doubt that Matt Cassell is gonna be that guy. Bruce Gradkowski isn't that guy. Same for T-Jack. These are all Washington Generals teams. My fear is that Mangini simply doesn't understand that and believes he can go into a game with a plan to run Hillis 40 times and play defense and win.
It won't work... unless 7-9 every year is working. The Rams had Stephen Jackson and sucked ass. They got Bradford and now they'll be winners for the next decade. That's the league we play in.
Gruden talks about it constantly: Until you have a serious quarterback, you have nothing. You're serving a plate with broccoli and potatoes with a glass of wine to the side. The program is about getting that guy... and then it shifts to making it work with that guy for 10-12 years. I like hearing that.
Finally... yes, plenty of Browns fans would love to ditch Mangini for Gruden.
Did you find that on Wikipedia?
Woof Woof, Kathy http://cognitivemanifesto.com/ http://www.skadden.com/index.cfm?contentID=49&officeID=9 Bendix ESP -
Then why did the bucs collapse under grudens watch? U figure such a great coach should be able to hold it together for more than one year. He did such a fantastic job that he's sitting in a Booth.
To criticize our current coach for his inability to win with a below average roster only to suggest a replacement that allowed a monumental failure of a Superbowl winning team in....a single year.....who never recovered to that level and decimated the roster quite possibly is the stupidest shit I've ever heard.
His own hand picked talent failed him year in year out till he was fired.....fired.....fired for failing to win in a cake division with superior talent.
And Boone mentioned that no coach has ever won the big game with 2 different teams.....not holmgren.......paul brown...not the hoody.....not dungy.....no one.
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Zombo said:
I used to like Gruden ... just in a casual way, not as a "great" coach or anything.But now WREBBEL has ruined him for me the same way that Shep and his merry men ruined Quinn for me.
WREB, you are now officially a "Gruden Fag". Wear it well...
Zombo
Too funny, I'm going to have a t shirt made "gruden fag"
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Let me quote Wikipedia on this one
Despite the Super Bowl win, there were many, including players on the Buccaneers like Warren Sapp, who attributed Gruden's win primarily to the defense that coach Tony Dungy and defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin had created during Dungy's tenure with the Bucs. Gruden publicly and graciously thanked Dungy for his contributions upon accepting the Lombardi Trophy at the Super Bowl XXXVII postgame ceremony
In the two years following Gruden's Super Bowl win, the Bucs went 7β9 and 5β11 respectively, implying to many Dungy supporters that Gruden had simply taken over a strong team and then driven it into the ground.
In 2006, Gruden led the Buccaneers to a 4β12 season. It was his worst record as a head coach and the first time a Tampa Bay team had not won more than four games since 1991
Speaking of taking over a team..... How did the Jets do last year after Mangini built that team up just so Rex could take over?
Let me quote Wikipedia on this one
Despite the Super Bowl win, there were many, including players on the Buccaneers like Warren Sapp, who attributed Gruden's win primarily to the defense that coach Tony Dungy and defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin had created during Dungy's tenure with the Bucs. Gruden publicly and graciously thanked Dungy for his contributions upon accepting the Lombardi Trophy at the Super Bowl XXXVII postgame ceremony
In the two years following Gruden's Super Bowl win, the Bucs went 7β9 and 5β11 respectively, implying to many Dungy supporters that Gruden had simply taken over a strong team and then driven it into the ground.
In 2006, Gruden led the Buccaneers to a 4β12 season. It was his worst record as a head coach and the first time a Tampa Bay team had not won more than four games since 1991
Speaking of taking over a team..... How did the Jets do last year after Mangini built that team up just so Rex could take over?
I don't want Gruden for this exact reason. Tampa sucked after their superbowl. I'm not sure why we would want him. I was pushing for Cowher.. but that won't mix with Holmgren.
I'm on the fence with EM right now. I think he has the smarts and the know how and I believe that he believes in himself. However, I am not sure, that I like the confidence that he appears to be giving Daboll. Our offensive gameplan seem to have reverted back to '09.
I remember at the beginning of the season, first game I believe. We had a fantastic Drive ... Someone mentioned that they saw EM tell Daboll to "Slow it down". That has been in the back of my mind the whole season. Why stop what is working.. if in fact that was true... I didn't catch it myself on TV that day.. but if anyone has a clip of it I would like to confirm it for sure.
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Zombo said:
I used to like Gruden ... just in a casual way, not as a "great" coach or anything.But now WREBBEL has ruined him for me the same way that Shep and his merry men ruined Quinn for me.
WREB, you are now officially a "Gruden Fag". Wear it well...
Zombo
Too funny, I'm going to have a t shirt made "gruden fag"
Too funny, I'm going to have a t shirt made "gruden fag"
Maybe something more pc for your shirt like BRIDE OF CHUCKY!
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Give it up man no one here wants to see Gruden were all satisfied with the foundation that magaini is putting together, leave your personal opionons to yourself
Give it up man no one here wants to see Gruden were all satisfied with the foundation that magaini is putting together, leave your personal opionons to yourself
Yea, because personal opinions on the matter of football surely do not
belong on a message board!
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