Daboll or McDaniels?
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The name I keep rattling around in my head as our next offensive coordinator if Daboll gets fired is Gary Kubiak. He was the offensive coordinator under Shanahan when Denver won the superbowl and I am guessing that he will be available after the season. I would hate for McCoy to have to learn a new system though after one year. I think that Daboll is gone if McCoy doesn't save his job for him over the next three weeks.
How about Haskell? Already knows the system, already "mentored" Daboll, would be a good fit.
How about Haskell? Already knows the system, already "mentored" Daboll, would be a good fit.
I just can't see us hiring a 67 year old man to do this job.
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Holmgren is the top of the food chain, the man in charge, the one who decides everything, ultimately. He was charged with remaking this franchise and finally leading it out of the darkness. He's the one who decides how long anybody is employed, period.
If he decides he wants the Browns to run his offense, they will... with or without Mangini. Much like Parcells in Miami, but he got one of his guys in Sporano.
Everybody assumed the Browns would become a full-on WCO the day Holmgren was hired. I was among them. He decided to give Mangini a year, and many believe it's because Gruden wasn't available yet. If Mangini had won 9 games, obviously, he would end the conversation. Clearly, with the Browns 5-8, the conversation continues.
Having expressed his lack of satisfaction with the offense in a few different semi-subtle ways, and with Daboll on the way out, logic dictates that Holmgren would want his regime to sink or swim with the systems he believes in, right?
That's what seems most logical to me. Word is he drafted McCoy thinking he was ideal for a WCO. The current offense has reportedly been tweaked to include "WCO elements," with Haskell's help. It's not much of a leap to believe the next offense (and OC) would be WCO.
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After reading that article the following words popped into my head. Probably doesn't hurt that I just seen an insurance commerical on TV
gobbledygook
jibber-jabber
mumbo jumbo
flim-flam
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the real problem here with all these discussions is NO ONE knows what's going to happen.....let alone know what holmgren is thinking or reasons for doing this or for doing that.
we all have our opinions and our own hopes for what happens to the browns. ultimately browns fans want to see winners who become champions. some disagree on how that might best happen.
but to say gruden will be our next coach and this guy will be our next OC is pure speculation. people: take off your karnak hats and chill out.
for all we know they'll be no football and we'll be sitting here bitching about the owners or the players etc.
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Mcdaniels is bright no doubt and one of the best minds in the NFL with the Offense, but the guy has major issues and im not sure will be able to conform. I sere Daboll getting fired as well and would welcome Mcdaniels if he understands his place. Otherwise it may be a safer move to hire Zorn as the new OC and steal him from the Ravens where he is the QB coach. We give him a raise and make him the OC. Zorn is probable the logical fit after working with Holmgren for many years in Seattle and knowing the WC offense.
Slow Ur Role Jabroni! -
the real problem here with all these discussions is NO ONE knows what's going to happen.....let alone know what holmgren is thinking or reasons for doing this or for doing that.
we all have our opinions and our own hopes for what happens to the browns. ultimately browns fans want to see winners who become champions. some disagree on how that might best happen.
but to say gruden will be our next coach and this guy will be our next OC is pure speculation. people: take off your karnak hats and chill out.
for all we know they'll be no football and we'll be sitting here bitching about the owners or the players etc.
the real problem here with all these discussions is NO ONE knows what's going to happen.....let alone know what holmgren is thinking or reasons for doing this or for doing that.
we all have our opinions and our own hopes for what happens to the browns. ultimately browns fans want to see winners who become champions. some disagree on how that might best happen.
but to say gruden will be our next coach and this guy will be our next OC is pure speculation. people: take off your karnak hats and chill out.
for all we know they'll be no football and we'll be sitting here bitching about the owners or the players etc.
So when you come across a thread where people are speculating and sharing their thoughts in a respectful manner without being jerks your response is don't speculate and chill out? We are fans and fans speculate at times. Hell I was actually proud that we could actually have a discussion on here for a change without somebody being a complete ass. I thought it was kind of nice.
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the real problem here with all these discussions is NO ONE knows what's going to happen.....let alone know what holmgren is thinking or reasons for doing this or for doing that.
we all have our opinions and our own hopes for what happens to the browns. ultimately browns fans want to see winners who become champions. some disagree on how that might best happen.
but to say gruden will be our next coach and this guy will be our next OC is pure speculation. people: take off your karnak hats and chill out.
for all we know they'll be no football and we'll be sitting here bitching about the owners or the players etc.
So when you come across a thread where people are speculating and sharing their thoughts in a respectful manner without being jerks your response is don't speculate and chill out? We are fans and fans speculate at times. Hell I was actually proud that we could actually have a discussion on here for a change without somebody being a complete ass. I thought it was kind of nice.
So when you come across a thread where people are speculating and sharing their thoughts in a respectful manner without being jerks your response is don't speculate and chill out? We are fans and fans speculate at times. Hell I was actually proud that we could actually have a discussion on here for a change without somebody being a complete ass. I thought it was kind of nice.
no, didn't mean it that way. is there an insider on this board though, that knows why holmgren drafted mccoy exactly? sure maybe it was he does this well or that well but when someone comes across as knowing 'inside information' and tells us that he's going to implement the WCO when he was hired to be prez, or we are going to make this move or that.............the season isn't over yet. what if miraculously we pull off the trifecta and win out? will the naysayers still be shouting for gruden or mcdaniels?
i don't mean any disrespect to anyone on this board (ok there might be a couple of trolls....). i just HATE the fact that some people can't see the same thing others can see and i don't mean in some visionary sense. this team is playing harder than they have in years, seems more disciplined...........hell if not for mccoy getting hurt we might have two or three more wins under our belt.
the thought of blowing up this org again because some people are in love with some SUPER coach sickens me.
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So when you come across a thread where people are speculating and sharing their thoughts in a respectful manner without being jerks your response is don't speculate and chill out? We are fans and fans speculate at times. Hell I was actually proud that we could actually have a discussion on here for a change without somebody being a complete ass. I thought it was kind of nice.
no, didn't mean it that way. is there an insider on this board though, that knows why holmgren drafted mccoy exactly? sure maybe it was he does this well or that well but when someone comes across as knowing 'inside information' and tells us that he's going to implement the WCO when he was hired to be prez, or we are going to make this move or that.............the season isn't over yet. what if miraculously we pull off the trifecta and win out? will the naysayers still be shouting for gruden or mcdaniels?
i don't mean any disrespect to anyone on this board (ok there might be a couple of trolls....). i just HATE the fact that some people can't see the same thing others can see and i don't mean in some visionary sense. this team is playing harder than they have in years, seems more disciplined...........hell if not for mccoy getting hurt we might have two or three more wins under our belt.
the thought of blowing up this org again because some people are in love with some SUPER coach sickens me.
no, didn't mean it that way. is there an insider on this board though, that knows why holmgren drafted mccoy exactly? sure maybe it was he does this well or that well but when someone comes across as knowing 'inside information' and tells us that he's going to implement the WCO when he was hired to be prez, or we are going to make this move or that.............the season isn't over yet. what if miraculously we pull off the trifecta and win out? will the naysayers still be shouting for gruden or mcdaniels?
i don't mean any disrespect to anyone on this board (ok there might be a couple of trolls....). i just HATE the fact that some people can't see the same thing others can see and i don't mean in some visionary sense. this team is playing harder than they have in years, seems more disciplined...........hell if not for mccoy getting hurt we might have two or three more wins under our belt.
the thought of blowing up this org again because some people are in love with some SUPER coach sickens me.
If I could nominate this post, I would.....
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So when you come across a thread where people are speculating and sharing their thoughts in a respectful manner without being jerks your response is don't speculate and chill out? We are fans and fans speculate at times. Hell I was actually proud that we could actually have a discussion on here for a change without somebody being a complete ass. I thought it was kind of nice.
no, didn't mean it that way. is there an insider on this board though, that knows why holmgren drafted mccoy exactly? sure maybe it was he does this well or that well but when someone comes across as knowing 'inside information' and tells us that he's going to implement the WCO when he was hired to be prez, or we are going to make this move or that.............the season isn't over yet. what if miraculously we pull off the trifecta and win out? will the naysayers still be shouting for gruden or mcdaniels?
i don't mean any disrespect to anyone on this board (ok there might be a couple of trolls....). i just HATE the fact that some people can't see the same thing others can see and i don't mean in some visionary sense. this team is playing harder than they have in years, seems more disciplined...........hell if not for mccoy getting hurt we might have two or three more wins under our belt.
the thought of blowing up this org again because some people are in love with some SUPER coach sickens me.
no, didn't mean it that way. is there an insider on this board though, that knows why holmgren drafted mccoy exactly? sure maybe it was he does this well or that well but when someone comes across as knowing 'inside information' and tells us that he's going to implement the WCO when he was hired to be prez, or we are going to make this move or that.............the season isn't over yet. what if miraculously we pull off the trifecta and win out? will the naysayers still be shouting for gruden or mcdaniels?
i don't mean any disrespect to anyone on this board (ok there might be a couple of trolls....). i just HATE the fact that some people can't see the same thing others can see and i don't mean in some visionary sense. this team is playing harder than they have in years, seems more disciplined...........hell if not for mccoy getting hurt we might have two or three more wins under our belt.
the thought of blowing up this org again because some people are in love with some SUPER coach sickens me.
I wouldnt call firing our OC whos very inexperienced and has had two seasons to show his worth, blowing up this team! Its worked very well in KC, Chi, and many other teams, why not here? Why not hire someone thats had success running an NFL offense rather than rolling along with someone who is inconsistent at best. I love what Mangini has done along with Rob Ryan, but unless the offense does a real 360 the next 3 games i'd like to see a different direction taken on that side of the ball and Dabolls Arse FIRED!
IMHO he needs to really make this offense shine for the last three games to keep his job and that won't be easy going against two of the best defenses in the NFL..
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no, didn't mean it that way. is there an insider on this board though, that knows why holmgren drafted mccoy exactly? sure maybe it was he does this well or that well but when someone comes across as knowing 'inside information' and tells us that he's going to implement the WCO when he was hired to be prez, or we are going to make this move or that.............the season isn't over yet. what if miraculously we pull off the trifecta and win out? will the naysayers still be shouting for gruden or mcdaniels?
i don't mean any disrespect to anyone on this board (ok there might be a couple of trolls....). i just HATE the fact that some people can't see the same thing others can see and i don't mean in some visionary sense. this team is playing harder than they have in years, seems more disciplined...........hell if not for mccoy getting hurt we might have two or three more wins under our belt.
the thought of blowing up this org again because some people are in love with some SUPER coach sickens me.
I wouldnt call firing our OC whos very inexperienced and has had two seasons to show his worth, blowing up this team! Its worked very well in KC, Chi, and many other teams, why not here? Why not hire someone thats had success running an NFL offense rather than rolling along with someone who is inconsistent at best. I love what Mangini has done along with Rob Ryan, but unless the offense does a real 360 the next 3 games i'd like to see a different direction taken on that side of the ball and Dabolls Arse FIRED!
IMHO he needs to really make this offense shine for the last three games to keep his job and that won't be easy going against two of the best defenses in the NFL..
I wouldnt call firing our OC whos very inexperienced and has had two seasons to show his worth, blowing up this team! Its worked very well in KC, Chi, and many other teams, why not here? Why not hire someone thats had success running an NFL offense rather than rolling along with someone who is inconsistent at best. I love what Mangini has done along with Rob Ryan, but unless the offense does a real 360 the next 3 games i'd like to see a different direction taken on that side of the ball and Dabolls Arse FIRED!
IMHO he needs to really make this offense shine for the last three games to keep his job and that won't be easy going against two of the best defenses in the NFL..
I dont think thats what he is talking about. Its the HC and everyone else under him that some are yelling about, not just the OC. I think thats a given that he needs replaced at this point unless he proves that its the QB, not the plays, that actually sucked. Next 3 games with Colt will say a lot.
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As of last week, the Browns are 29th in the league on total offense. The o-line is struggling, we have a less-than-stellar receiving corp and, with the exception of McCoy, QB play has been awful. Player talent is a legitimate issue when considering what to do with Daboll. Daboll also isn't the QB development guru that others are. My guess is he will be gone next year. McDaniels has too many issues going on right now so he won't be in Cleveland. The Bleacher Report has rumored Jim Zorn coming as Cleveland OC. We'll have to wait and se what happens but my money would be on Daboll hitting the streets after our season is done.
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All I know is that Daboll's offensive scheme is very poor.
The first drive against the Bills is a perfect example. Hillis was tearning it up, got us down to the goal line 1 and Goal. I understand 1 or 2 plays up the middle, but lord god almighty, 3 plays trying to shove it up the middle when we haven't spread the defense and the bills loaded up the box. HELLO.. Daboll.... Anyone home...
Coaching staff gave us expectations at the beginning of the year of the WildDawg, and other offensive schemes. However, Daboll seems like he is an amateur kid playing Madden. He has found a few plays that work a few times and he sticks with them, even though the defense has caught on and has adjusted.
The Pats and the Saints were anomalies when it comes to games. I thought we really turned the corner, but I digress as we have now reverted back to 2009.
Daboll IMO should go bye bye. McDaniels might be a good fit, but I don't know how he and Hillis will get along. He benched Hillis for putting the ball on the ground in Denver and Hillis, despite being my fav at this time, is still prone to do so.
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i've got no love for daboll and no problem bringing in a zorn or a mcdaniels..........it's just the talk of starting something all over again (new HC, new systems, new schemes etc. and the NEW time it would take to implement these) when we just did the same thing 2 years ago. owners and gms used to give new regimes a 5 year plan. now everyone wants everything overnite. you can't compare other teams new found success with what's going on with our team. how many years of number one picks have they had, what's their talent level compared to ours? what was their schedule compared to ours? how many injuries to key players do they have? we could go on and on.
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New coaching staffs have NOT been some kind of hindrance, guys. They've been positives in Atlanta, Baltimore, Kansas City, Tampa Bay, and so on. Remember Sean Payton and New Orleans?
Keeping a bad system resulting in bad records is not a great example of "continuity." It means the Browns "continue" to be happy with close losses and stinkers like we laid last Sunday.
Nobody thought Mangini was a big "get." It was a bit of a surprise, frankly. And the same can be said for Delhomme. Marrying those decisions doesn't make sense unless Holmgren/Heckert have determined that somehow, in spite of amazing coaching, the Browns finished 5-11 and 6-10 when other teams have turned around much faster. In their second year, the Chiefs new brass is 8-5 while the Browns are 5-8. That's just the reality of it. The Rams are 6-7 after winning ONE game last year. Also the second year.
That's what you judge against. And the undeniable fact of the matter is that Holmgren is running a team that isn't using HIS people or HIS systems, most notably the WCO. I doubt he's going to want to fail before he truly makes the Browns HIS team. I wouldn't.
My gut says Gruden is in with a WCO OC. It'll be interesting to see if they ask Ryan to stay and keep the defense moving forward with the same 3-4. It isn't really much of an evolution to complete the transition to a WCO, given that Haskell has already been part of the program.
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New coaching staffs have NOT been some kind of hindrance, guys. They've been positives in Atlanta, Baltimore, Kansas City, Tampa Bay, and so on. Remember Sean Payton and New Orleans?
Keeping a bad system resulting in bad records is not a great example of "continuity." It means the Browns "continue" to be happy with close losses and stinkers like we laid last Sunday.
Nobody thought Mangini was a big "get." It was a bit of a surprise, frankly. And the same can be said for Delhomme. Marrying those decisions doesn't make sense unless Holmgren/Heckert have determined that somehow, in spite of amazing coaching, the Browns finished 5-11 and 6-10 when other teams have turned around much faster. In their second year, the Chiefs new brass is 8-5 while the Browns are 5-8. That's just the reality of it. The Rams are 6-7 after winning ONE game last year. Also the second year.
That's what you judge against. And the undeniable fact of the matter is that Holmgren is running a team that isn't using HIS people or HIS systems, most notably the WCO. I doubt he's going to want to fail before he truly makes the Browns HIS team. I wouldn't.
My gut says Gruden is in with a WCO OC. It'll be interesting to see if they ask Ryan to stay and keep the defense moving forward with the same 3-4. It isn't really much of an evolution to complete the transition to a WCO, given that Haskell has already been part of the program.
New coaching staffs have NOT been some kind of hindrance, guys. They've been positives in Atlanta, Baltimore, Kansas City, Tampa Bay, and so on. Remember Sean Payton and New Orleans?
Keeping a bad system resulting in bad records is not a great example of "continuity." It means the Browns "continue" to be happy with close losses and stinkers like we laid last Sunday.
Nobody thought Mangini was a big "get." It was a bit of a surprise, frankly. And the same can be said for Delhomme. Marrying those decisions doesn't make sense unless Holmgren/Heckert have determined that somehow, in spite of amazing coaching, the Browns finished 5-11 and 6-10 when other teams have turned around much faster. In their second year, the Chiefs new brass is 8-5 while the Browns are 5-8. That's just the reality of it. The Rams are 6-7 after winning ONE game last year. Also the second year.
That's what you judge against. And the undeniable fact of the matter is that Holmgren is running a team that isn't using HIS people or HIS systems, most notably the WCO. I doubt he's going to want to fail before he truly makes the Browns HIS team. I wouldn't.
My gut says Gruden is in with a WCO OC. It'll be interesting to see if they ask Ryan to stay and keep the defense moving forward with the same 3-4. It isn't really much of an evolution to complete the transition to a WCO, given that Haskell has already been part of the program.
QB is key, St Louis got their QB, our was hurt after beating REALLY good teams and taking other ones down to the wire. Jax is underrated IMO. Either way, injuries are the biggest factor why we are not still in the playoff hunt.
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You turn a couple of those close losses early in the season into wins and then McCoy leads the Browns to a win in Buffalo, we're 8-5, pure and simple. It's on Delhomme in my book. Weirdest signing since I started watching football.
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You turn a couple of those close losses early in the season into wins and then McCoy leads the Browns to a win in Buffalo, we're 8-5, pure and simple. It's on Delhomme in my book. Weirdest signing since I started watching football.
You turn a couple of those close losses early in the season into wins and then McCoy leads the Browns to a win in Buffalo, we're 8-5, pure and simple. It's on Delhomme in my book. Weirdest signing since I started watching football.
is it on delhomme or mangini? one minute it's about the coach, the next it's about the qb. i know delhomme sucks. i think everyone is in agreement with that.
the other teams with new coaches......... let's see how they do with our schedule and our talent.
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You turn a couple of those close losses early in the season into wins and then McCoy leads the Browns to a win in Buffalo, we're 8-5, pure and simple. It's on Delhomme in my book. Weirdest signing since I started watching football.
is it on delhomme or mangini? one minute it's about the coach, the next it's about the qb. i know delhomme sucks. i think everyone is in agreement with that.
the other teams with new coaches......... let's see how they do with our schedule and our talent.
is it on delhomme or mangini? one minute it's about the coach, the next it's about the qb. i know delhomme sucks. i think everyone is in agreement with that.
the other teams with new coaches......... let's see how they do with our schedule and our talent.
I don't think Mangini is a bad coach. He's one of those guys who should stay away from the offense, though. When I talk about whether he'll be back, it isn't a hate or love thing. I wouldn't cry either way, assuming we're getting rid of Daboll.
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Mcdaniels is bright no doubt and one of the best minds in the NFL with the Offense, but the guy has major issues and im not sure will be able to conform. I sere Daboll getting fired as well and would welcome Mcdaniels if he understands his place. Otherwise it may be a safer move to hire Zorn as the new OC and steal him from the Ravens where he is the QB coach. We give him a raise and make him the OC. Zorn is probable the logical fit after working with Holmgren for many years in Seattle and knowing the WC offense.
Mcdaniels is bright no doubt and one of the best minds in the NFL with the Offense, but the guy has major issues and im not sure will be able to conform. I sere Daboll getting fired as well and would welcome Mcdaniels if he understands his place. Otherwise it may be a safer move to hire Zorn as the new OC and steal him from the Ravens where he is the QB coach. We give him a raise and make him the OC. Zorn is probable the logical fit after working with Holmgren for many years in Seattle and knowing the WC offense.
Only problem with that, if he is still under contract with the Ravens, they don't have to let him interview for a coordinator position. The only upward-moving position that this can happen with is HC
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