Whats is the "foundation" everyone on here is speaking of?
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I dont know whats gonna happen with Mangini. But I can save you the suspense. Gruden is not coming to Cleveland. But please continue with the Gruden love affair. It is mildly entertaining to see people argue with the "Gruden or bust" motto.
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Bodogjoe,
Why don't you think he will come to cleveland?
His whole mentality over all the open coaching spots. He does not seem interested. I am not saying I wouldnt love to see him here. Being from Sandusky and growing up a Browns fan and knowing the tradition. But its just not gonna happen. If he did decide to come back to coaching at some point I dont see it being in Cleveland.
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Bodogjoe,
Why don't you think he will come to cleveland?
His whole mentality over all the open coaching spots. He does not seem interested. I am not saying I wouldnt love to see him here. Being from Sandusky and growing up a Browns fan and knowing the tradition. But its just not gonna happen. If he did decide to come back to coaching at some point I dont see it being in Cleveland.
His whole mentality over all the open coaching spots. He does not seem interested. I am not saying I wouldnt love to see him here. Being from Sandusky and growing up a Browns fan and knowing the tradition. But its just not gonna happen. If he did decide to come back to coaching at some point I dont see it being in Cleveland.
I agree with you about his coaching mentality. He seems to like the attention by throwing his hat in the ring for a lot of coaching jobs..
That said, I do get the feelng he will coach again soon. You listen to jaws from mnf, and he was saying that gruden needs to be coaching and will do again..
He is from sandusky, his dad was a huge browns fan. I think even his mom kathy followed the browns. If you look at things that would bring him here, the ohio roots and holmgren.
People point to al davis getting rid of him as something negative. The truth of the matter daivis has admitted publicly that it was a mistake.
There are rumors al davis wants gruden back as head of football operations and would give him shares of the team
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Me saying gruden follows me on twitter or jon gruden jr texts me was out of fun.
I'm sorry if you can't look past the one liners...
Listen, at the end of the year will see what we will see. If mangini stays then end of story..
I have a strong feeling he won't, and a real strong feeling who our coach will be.
Me saying gruden follows me on twitter or jon gruden jr texts me was out of fun.
I'm sorry if you can't look past the one liners...
Listen, at the end of the year will see what we will see. If mangini stays then end of story..
I have a strong feeling he won't, and a real strong feeling who our coach will be.
You do realize that about 80% of the people on this thread think you're a douche bag?
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Me saying gruden follows me on twitter or jon gruden jr texts me was out of fun.
I'm sorry if you can't look past the one liners...
Listen, at the end of the year will see what we will see. If mangini stays then end of story..
I have a strong feeling he won't, and a real strong feeling who our coach will be.
You do realize that about 80% of the people on this thread think you're a douche bag?
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Colt12 said:
You do realize that about 80% of the people on this thread think you're a douche bag?Only 80%?
Well, that seems like a low number.. maybe you should start a poll.. I'm not going to defend my stance on mangina...
Only 80%?
Well, that seems like a low number.. maybe you should start a poll.. I'm not going to defend my stance on mangina...
Cool story bro.
Why don't you get off your computer and go give your little butt buddy Gruden a blumpkin.
PS: Don't bother respond, you've been blocked.
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Colt12 said:
Cool story bro.Why don't you get off your computer and go give your little butt buddy Gruden a blumpkin.
PS: Don't bother respond, you've been blocked.
Hmmmm, you on the OBR friend?
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Colt12 said:
Cool story bro.Why don't you get off your computer and go give your little butt buddy Gruden a blumpkin.
PS: Don't bother respond, you've been blocked.
Hmmmm, you on the OBR friend?
Hmmmm, you on the OBR friend?
wtf is OBR?
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Hmmmm, you on the OBR friend?
wtf is OBR?
Colt12 said:
wtf is OBR?OBR = Orange and Brown report, but that answers my question. LOL!
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Colt12 said:
wtf is OBR?OBR = Orange and Brown report, but that answers my question. LOL!
OBR = Orange and Brown report, but that answers my question. LOL!
I don't think I am
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I don't hate Mangini and it wouldn't bother me to keep him if he kinda-sorta lets Holmgren/Haskell fix the offense with a new OC and the WCO Holmgren obviously believes in... but I do struggle to figure how anybody would be very passionate about him. He really hasn't done anything in his head coaching career and he's not the most likable guy.
Shep,
Let me try to answer this. First off, understand that I respect you as a poster on this board. If nothing else, you generate things that we can debate and that's the idea of a message board.
Let me speak for myself. I am not as passionate about Mangini as much as I am passionate about the Cleveland Browns. If Mr. Holmgren decides to go another direction with the head coach after this year, I will still be as passionate about the Orange and Brown.
But I am not going to stand idly by with my hat in my hand as media/internet rumblings begin to attempt to remove the first coach this 11-year old franchise has had who sticks to his guns, holds players accountable, gets his players to play disciplined, smart football, and doesn't kowtow to the local media. Firing Mangini after Year 2 of a serious rebuild, a rebuild in which he was willing to clean up the cultural mess he inherited in Year 1, would be a mistake. I don't understand how people can argue that clear progress hasn't been made especially with the little things such as penalties, player accountability, etc. A competitive 5-8 in Year 2 with ALL factors taken into consideration isn't satisfying by any stretch, but it's also not an abomination that justifies the removal of the head coach.
Your second point about how he hasn't done anything in his head coaching career is completely unfair. He never got the chance to finish the job in New York and if some have their way, the axe will prematurely fall again here in Cleveland. ALL NFL coaches who have had long-term success have had short-term struggles along the way for various reasons. Belichick, Walsh, Noll, and Parcells all had dismal records early on in their careers. But thankfully for them and their fans, those organizations weren't making decisions in today's INSTANT GRATIFICATION era. Because if Walsh went 2-14 in Year 1 and 6-10 in Year 2 (as he did in SF) today in Cleveland, he would probably be fired on The Browns Board threads. Coach Mangini deserves another year at the very least because significant, important, cultural, and tangible progress is clearly evident.
To touch on your final point about Mangini being 'not the most likable' guy, just let me say I have always been a substance over style guy. Give me a Mangini presser any day over a Rex Ryan/Jerry Glanville vaudeville act. The man is consistent in how he approaches things. When things go right or wrong, he's consistent in his approach. Coaches that wear their emotions on their sleeves don't often respond well to adversity. That's why I admire stoic guys who have been (Landry, Noll, Belichick, Walsh, Fisher) and will be (Harbaugh, Payton) successful long term in this league. You can have the loudmouth expressive hacks like Sparano, Rex, Sam Wyche, etc. Mangini expects his players to learn each day. He expects them to be accountable for their actions. He expects them to prepare and improve each and every day. But the best part is that he expects these things from himself as well and then goes out and walks the walk. Many call him unlikable, but he has the respect of the players in that locker room. It would have been very easy for him to go out there on Monday and kill Delhomme for his performance, but he didn't. Delhomme's a big boy, an 15?-year veteran who can take it, but instead Mangini deflected that criticism, unlike Rex who threw his beleaguered 22-year old 2nd-year QB under the bus this week. Privately, EM is demanding of his guys, but publicly he steps up to the plate and does what he should: he protects these guys from the criticism they face. That's why I respect the man so much, and if there's something I do get passionate about in regards to EM, it's that. Criticize the coach, but don't dare criticize the man. He's got character. Period. And for someone like Tony Grossi to use the PD as a sounding board for a personal attack against EM, sickens and angers me. It's amazing that EM has been able to dutifully answer that POS's baited questions this long without cracking.
Again, Shep, I respect your posts, but I am passionate enough about speaking out on the importance of keeping Eric Mangini because of where I see this franchise heading with him as the head coach.
Shep,
Let me try to answer this. First off, understand that I respect you as a poster on this board. If nothing else, you generate things that we can debate and that's the idea of a message board.
Let me speak for myself. I am not as passionate about Mangini as much as I am passionate about the Cleveland Browns. If Mr. Holmgren decides to go another direction with the head coach after this year, I will still be as passionate about the Orange and Brown.
But I am not going to stand idly by with my hat in my hand as media/internet rumblings begin to attempt to remove the first coach this 11-year old franchise has had who sticks to his guns, holds players accountable, gets his players to play disciplined, smart football, and doesn't kowtow to the local media. Firing Mangini after Year 2 of a serious rebuild, a rebuild in which he was willing to clean up the cultural mess he inherited in Year 1, would be a mistake. I don't understand how people can argue that clear progress hasn't been made especially with the little things such as penalties, player accountability, etc. A competitive 5-8 in Year 2 with ALL factors taken into consideration isn't satisfying by any stretch, but it's also not an abomination that justifies the removal of the head coach.
Your second point about how he hasn't done anything in his head coaching career is completely unfair. He never got the chance to finish the job in New York and if some have their way, the axe will prematurely fall again here in Cleveland. ALL NFL coaches who have had long-term success have had short-term struggles along the way for various reasons. Belichick, Walsh, Noll, and Parcells all had dismal records early on in their careers. But thankfully for them and their fans, those organizations weren't making decisions in today's INSTANT GRATIFICATION era. Because if Walsh went 2-14 in Year 1 and 6-10 in Year 2 (as he did in SF) today in Cleveland, he would probably be fired on The Browns Board threads. Coach Mangini deserves another year at the very least because significant, important, cultural, and tangible progress is clearly evident.
To touch on your final point about Mangini being 'not the most likable' guy, just let me say I have always been a substance over style guy. Give me a Mangini presser any day over a Rex Ryan/Jerry Glanville vaudeville act. The man is consistent in how he approaches things. When things go right or wrong, he's consistent in his approach. Coaches that wear their emotions on their sleeves don't often respond well to adversity. That's why I admire stoic guys who have been (Landry, Noll, Belichick, Walsh, Fisher) and will be (Harbaugh, Payton) successful long term in this league. You can have the loudmouth expressive hacks like Sparano, Rex, Sam Wyche, etc. Mangini expects his players to learn each day. He expects them to be accountable for their actions. He expects them to prepare and improve each and every day. But the best part is that he expects these things from himself as well and then goes out and walks the walk. Many call him unlikable, but he has the respect of the players in that locker room. It would have been very easy for him to go out there on Monday and kill Delhomme for his performance, but he didn't. Delhomme's a big boy, an 15?-year veteran who can take it, but instead Mangini deflected that criticism, unlike Rex who threw his beleaguered 22-year old 2nd-year QB under the bus this week. Privately, EM is demanding of his guys, but publicly he steps up to the plate and does what he should: he protects these guys from the criticism they face. That's why I respect the man so much, and if there's something I do get passionate about in regards to EM, it's that. Criticize the coach, but don't dare criticize the man. He's got character. Period. And for someone like Tony Grossi to use the PD as a sounding board for a personal attack against EM, sickens and angers me. It's amazing that EM has been able to dutifully answer that POS's baited questions this long without cracking.
Again, Shep, I respect your posts, but I am passionate enough about speaking out on the importance of keeping Eric Mangini because of where I see this franchise heading with him as the head coach.
I have to say this is an excellent post and it mirrors my perception of Mangini perfectly. This is the reason why I was very upset when his best friend backstabbed him in NY and why I keep track of how the Browns are doing. It's a nice escape from what the Jets have turned into. I still bleed green but I also take satisfaction in seeing good people succeed. I hope that's the case with Mangini with the Browns.
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Whats a "nameless quote by Gruden"?
The Soldier said:
Whats a "nameless quote by Gruden"?That is really funny.
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Good stuff as usual, NW. Lots to think about.
I won't be upset one way or the other, frankly. I don't love the guy but I sure as hell don't have an axe to grind.
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I love this quote from my favorite soon to be browns coach..
"It's unbelievable. I don't get it. I just don't. I know they've made multiple trades, traded down to accumulate some picks. I just don't see anybody really exploding on the scene yet."
I love this quote from my favorite soon to be browns coach..
"It's unbelievable. I don't get it. I just don't. I know they've made multiple trades, traded down to accumulate some picks. I just don't see anybody really exploding on the scene yet."
Your example of a nameless Gruden quote.
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What is the "foundation" that everybody seems to speak of? I don't understand.
The only stability we see on Sundays is Peyton Hillis running his ass off (and fumbling).
I love Hillis. But he probably only has 5 years left in this league to be effective. And...that's if if he doesn't get hurt, which is extremely likely given his running style.
Is the new "foundation" Colt McCoy? Why are we worshiping Colt McCoy?????? He looks solid, poised, and has promise...but give be me a frickin break already. He has started 4 games. Remember hoiw good Tony Romo looked when he first started playing with the Dallas Cowboys? All the hype....how many playoff games has Romo won?
I am satisfied with the draft pick but how many years does Colt get a free pass from the fans just because he is better than the worst qb in the league (jake Delhomme) and one of the worst (Derek Anderson). Does anybody here trust that he will develop under the brilliant tutiliage of Mangini???? You guys would choose Mangini to coach up Colt over the notorious qb developer we would have in mike Holgren?
Ward and Hayden are proming. That's a positive. What about the rest of the defense? I've been happy with their play this year and all the credit in the world should go to Ryan. We have 0 pro-bowl defensive players. How many do the steelers and ravens have?
Everyone is worried about firing Mangini because it would re-start the process of building the team from the ground up. That's a fair concern...But...how much further along in the process are we?
Our offense has been HORRENDOUS the past two years. The only thing that has been good is Peyton Hillis. And, we got extremely lucky to get him in a trade and for him to perform this well. Imagine if he got injured. We would not score more than a field goal per game.
Our offense is at the expansion level. It wouldn't hurt at all for a new coach to come in with a new scheme because the one we are using obviously sucks and will NOT get better next year just becasue we get a high receiver draft pick.
We need coaches that can develop offensive schemes to give us a chance to win. Good schemes make bad players look like good players. (ex: marc bulger) good players in bad schemes do nothing (ex: Randy Moss)
Rob Ryan is a great example of my point. Because he is a good coach he has made a mediocre defense play very well on Sundays.
Posters here need to realize that when you keep making excuses for lack of talent every single year something has to give. Browns have had horrible head coaches and horrible high level management. It all starts at the top. That is what's led to the stagnant below-mediocrity level of play we have seen for the last decade.
What is the "foundation" that everybody seems to speak of? I don't understand.
The only stability we see on Sundays is Peyton Hillis running his ass off (and fumbling).
I love Hillis. But he probably only has 5 years left in this league to be effective. And...that's if if he doesn't get hurt, which is extremely likely given his running style.
Is the new "foundation" Colt McCoy? Why are we worshiping Colt McCoy?????? He looks solid, poised, and has promise...but give be me a frickin break already. He has started 4 games. Remember hoiw good Tony Romo looked when he first started playing with the Dallas Cowboys? All the hype....how many playoff games has Romo won?
I am satisfied with the draft pick but how many years does Colt get a free pass from the fans just because he is better than the worst qb in the league (jake Delhomme) and one of the worst (Derek Anderson). Does anybody here trust that he will develop under the brilliant tutiliage of Mangini???? You guys would choose Mangini to coach up Colt over the notorious qb developer we would have in mike Holgren?
Ward and Hayden are proming. That's a positive. What about the rest of the defense? I've been happy with their play this year and all the credit in the world should go to Ryan. We have 0 pro-bowl defensive players. How many do the steelers and ravens have?
Everyone is worried about firing Mangini because it would re-start the process of building the team from the ground up. That's a fair concern...But...how much further along in the process are we?
Our offense has been HORRENDOUS the past two years. The only thing that has been good is Peyton Hillis. And, we got extremely lucky to get him in a trade and for him to perform this well. Imagine if he got injured. We would not score more than a field goal per game.
Our offense is at the expansion level. It wouldn't hurt at all for a new coach to come in with a new scheme because the one we are using obviously sucks and will NOT get better next year just becasue we get a high receiver draft pick.
We need coaches that can develop offensive schemes to give us a chance to win. Good schemes make bad players look like good players. (ex: marc bulger) good players in bad schemes do nothing (ex: Randy Moss)
Rob Ryan is a great example of my point. Because he is a good coach he has made a mediocre defense play very well on Sundays.
Posters here need to realize that when you keep making excuses for lack of talent every single year something has to give. Browns have had horrible head coaches and horrible high level management. It all starts at the top. That is what's led to the stagnant below-mediocrity level of play we have seen for the last decade.
it's obvious you know nothing about business or building an organization from top to bottom.
would a family company (let's say johnson and johnson for example) owned by one of the johnsons hire a ceo to have him hire a plant manager to finally rise above their financial woes (i.e. w-l record), employee satisfaction rating etc. just to fire them two years down the line because a new plant manager is available from some other super company?
GTFOOH
you guys are delusional.
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Mangini Has a 3 year contract which is up at the end of next year. The only way he is fired before that is if the team completely shits the bed. Which with what this team has at the moment hasn't happened.
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all the naysayers that want to burn down the house only see what's in front of them at this moment..........
OMG st. louis is doing good (how many #1 picks in the last 4 years, what kinda schedule have they played, in what division?).
OMG kansas city look what they've done in the first year of a new coaching regime (again, look at the picks, their talent and their schedule).
OMG tampa bay " " " "
NOW let's see how they do next year after they get handed a tougher schedule and teams understand how to play them, not like they are just an easy win.
AGAIN i ask this......what do the winning franchises have in common? no FO turnover. no HC turnover.
you gave the guy three years. he's shown progress with little to no talent except for the moves that have landed the team the players he's wanted and now you want to pull the rug out from underneath him? that is not good biz sense.
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all the naysayers that want to burn down the house only see what's in front of them at this moment..........
OMG st. louis is doing good (how many #1 picks in the last 4 years, what kinda schedule have they played, in what division?).
OMG kansas city look what they've done in the first year of a new coaching regime (again, look at the picks, their talent and their schedule).
OMG tampa bay " " " "
NOW let's see how they do next year after they get handed a tougher schedule and teams understand how to play them, not like they are just an easy win.
AGAIN i ask this......what do the winning franchises have in common? no FO turnover. no HC turnover.
you gave the guy three years. he's shown progress with little to no talent except for the moves that have landed the team the players he's wanted and now you want to pull the rug out from underneath him? that is not good biz sense.
all the naysayers that want to burn down the house only see what's in front of them at this moment..........
OMG st. louis is doing good (how many #1 picks in the last 4 years, what kinda schedule have they played, in what division?).
Correction: The Rams are not "good." They have a 6-7 record and are 2-3 in their last 5. St. Louis in first place in a division that plays like my cousin's 6th grade division. I can't wait until the playoffs to see Sam Bradford get his ass beat like a little baby back bitch.
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