Joe Haden was a BETTER 1st pick for US than Dez Bryant
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Colt12 said:
Yes. We were called idiots for "wasting" the 7th pick on Haden. Dez Bryant is nothing but a trouble-maker.I just equate his upbringing to that of William Green where he had horrible parents. There was an article in a draft guide where I read Dez's father was in his 40s at the time his 15 year old mother was impregnated by the guy. 2 years later, she's selling drugs in the streets which goes hand in hand with prostitution. NONE of that is Dez's fault anymore than it was ever William Green's fault he had 2 parents addicted to IV drugs in the streets. Even though both Green's parents had AIDS, it wasn't the disease that killed either parent - it was the drugs.
Understanding where BOTH kids came from, the Browns went the route of choosing a highly talented William Green who would actually RUN our asses into the 2002 playoffs with an impressive FINISH to his rookie season. He closed out the last 6 weeks of the rookie year averaging more than 100 yards rushing in those games. Consequently, Browns fans were kind of getting excited about his capability. HOWEVER, the next season he started strong with 2 early 100 yard efforts vrs Pitt and Oakland before - guess what? A DRUG ADDICTION he couldn't run away from ended his career. I'm not saying this will happen with Dez Bryant; BUT there's always been hints of trouble and inability to stay focused. And this ties into what he comes from (not totally his fault) but it cenrtainly doesn't suggest "make him your pillar" to plan the success of your offense around.
As Browns fans can't we say: "been there - done that?" You bet we can. No thanks! I don't HATE Dez Bryant; but I think Joe Haden coming from a dad who's a personal trainer shows me we have a guy that understands you gotta WORK to be good and work even harder to continue to be good. I just get a more trustable vibe from Haden. In addition, wouldn't it be cool to land AJ Green or Julio Jones in round 1 this coming year? Heckert is here so it's more than possible. He's already landed gems like Jeremy Maclin and DeSean Jackson for Philly so I'm confident he'll get us a missing X-factor or 2.
- Tom F.
I just equate his upbringing to that of William Green where he had horrible parents. There was an article in adraft guide where i read Dez's father was in his 40s at the time his 15 year old mother was impregnated by the guy.
Dez Bryant's dad banged his mom when he was 40 and she was 15? He is old enough to be her father.
And I can't agree more on the subject of A.J. Green and Julio Jones. I live in South Florida and am a Florida fan and IMO, Julio Jones is a man playing among boys in the SEC. He had his best game of the year while playing with a broken hand, not to mention he pounded the shit out of my Gators
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I just equate his upbringing to that of William Green where he had horrible parents. There was an article in adraft guide where i read Dez's father was in his 40s at the time his 15 year old mother was impregnated by the guy.
Dez Bryant's dad banged his mom when he was 40 and she was 15? He is old enough to be her father.
And I can't agree more on the subject of A.J. Green and Julio Jones. I live in South Florida and am a Florida fan and IMO, Julio Jones is a man playing among boys in the SEC. He had his best game of the year while playing with a broken hand, not to mention he pounded the shit out of my Gators
Colt12 said:
Dez Bryant's dad banged his mom when he was 40 and she was 15? He is old enough to be her father.And I can't agree more on the subject of A.J. Green and Julio Jones. I live in South Florida and am a Florida fan and IMO, Julio Jones is a man playing among boys in the SEC. He had his best game of the year while playing with a broken hand, not to mention he pounded the shit out of my Gators
Eggs-actly. Some 41 year old Shawn's Kemp without the basketball skills gave her a hands on birds, bees and fleas lesson. Who woulda thought that would translate into millionaire son? It's a pretty nice conclusion considering all that's happened. It would be a great story if the kid went on to have a great career. That said, it's still in that William Green area where nobody knows when/if there's dangerous curveballs ahead in terms of the NFL career thing. And this is where we as fans should feel good we got the RIGHT guy in round 1.
- Tom F.
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Colt12 said:
Yes. We were called idiots for "wasting" the 7th pick on Haden. Dez Bryant is nothing but a trouble-maker.I just equate his upbringing to that of William Green where he had horrible parents. There was an article in a draft guide where I read Dez's father was in his 40s at the time his 15 year old mother was impregnated by the guy. 2 years later, she's selling drugs in the streets which goes hand in hand with prostitution. NONE of that is Dez's fault anymore than it was ever William Green's fault he had 2 parents addicted to IV drugs in the streets. Even though both Green's parents had AIDS, it wasn't the disease that killed either parent - it was the drugs.
Understanding where BOTH kids came from, the Browns went the route of choosing a highly talented William Green who would actually RUN our asses into the 2002 playoffs with an impressive FINISH to his rookie season. He closed out the last 6 weeks of the rookie year averaging more than 100 yards rushing in those games. Consequently, Browns fans were kind of getting excited about his capability. HOWEVER, the next season he started strong with 2 early 100 yard efforts vrs Pitt and Oakland before - guess what? A DRUG ADDICTION he couldn't run away from ended his career. I'm not saying this will happen with Dez Bryant; BUT there's always been hints of trouble and inability to stay focused. And this ties into what he comes from (not totally his fault) but it cenrtainly doesn't suggest "make him your pillar" to plan the success of your offense around.
As Browns fans can't we say: "been there - done that?" You bet we can. No thanks! I don't HATE Dez Bryant; but I think Joe Haden coming from a dad who's a personal trainer shows me we have a guy that understands you gotta WORK to be good and work even harder to continue to be good. I just get a more trustable vibe from Haden. In addition, wouldn't it be cool to land AJ Green or Julio Jones in round 1 this coming year? Heckert is here so it's more than possible. He's already landed gems like Jeremy Maclin and DeSean Jackson for Philly so I'm confident he'll get us a missing X-factor or 2.
- Tom F.
HOWEVER, the next season he started strong with 2 early 100 yard efforts vrs Pitt and Oakland before - guess what? A DRUG ADDICTION he couldn't run away from ended his career.
there is no such thing as marijuana addiction, fyi.
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Haden is awesome but i fault mangini and ryan for not using him more early on instead keeping wright on the field cost us at least 2 games and it was uncalled for as haden out of the gate was better than wright..
We have been rebuilding since 1964, Why stop now? GO BROWNS! -
Colt12 said:
Dez Bryant's dad banged his mom when he was 40 and she was 15? He is old enough to be her father.And I can't agree more on the subject of A.J. Green and Julio Jones. I live in South Florida and am a Florida fan and IMO, Julio Jones is a man playing among boys in the SEC. He had his best game of the year while playing with a broken hand, not to mention he pounded the shit out of my Gators
Eggs-actly. Some 41 year old Shawn's Kemp without the basketball skills gave her a hands on birds, bees and fleas lesson. Who woulda thought that would translate into millionaire son? It's a pretty nice conclusion considering all that's happened. It would be a great story if the kid went on to have a great career. That said, it's still in that William Green area where nobody knows when/if there's dangerous curveballs ahead in terms of the NFL career thing. And this is where we as fans should feel good we got the RIGHT guy in round 1.
- Tom F.
Eggs-actly. Some 41 year old Shawn's Kemp without the basketball skills gave her a hands on birds, bees and fleas lesson. Who woulda thought that would translate into millionaire son? It's a pretty nice conclusion considering all that's happened. It would be a great story if the kid went on to have a great career. That said, it's still in that William Green area where nobody knows when/if there's dangerous curveballs ahead in terms of the NFL career thing. And this is where we as fans should feel good we got the RIGHT guy in round 1.
- Tom F.
And Dez's is Dez's father dead or in jail? If he's not dead, he must be in jail.
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there is no such thing as marijuana addiction, fyi.
True, but how often does marijuana lead to domestic altercations like a stabbing? I think alcohol and cocaine tend to be more the types of recreational drugs that lead to physical fights. Marijuana just mellows people so I think there was more to Wiliam Green's partying than marijuana.
Truth is - it's easier to detect THC in a drug test because of how long it stays in the system whereas cocaine and alcohol are water soluable; so it's tougher to bust a guy for either of those than it is marijuana in the drug testing. It's possible I'm wrong about the drugs; BUT a guy with a family history that's not good at setting boundaries on partying limits might not have the ability to say no once he's smoking weed.
Some people without chemical dependencies in their families can get drunk or have fun getting wasted without worry about getting back on track. William Green couldn't or we would have seen him come back to form IMO. I say such a thing because someone with his talent level just doesn't wake up a crappy football player 1 day. He had help; and his hottie LOVED to party every bit as much as she liked to play with knives. Let's just be thankful she didn't like to play with matches.
- Tom F.
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there is no such thing as marijuana addiction, fyi.
True, but how often does marijuana lead to domestic altercations like a stabbing? I think alcohol and cocaine tend to be more the types of recreational drugs that lead to physical fights. Marijuana just mellows people so I think there was more to Wiliam Green's partying than marijuana.
Truth is - it's easier to detect THC in a drug test because of how long it stays in the system whereas cocaine and alcohol are water soluable; so it's tougher to bust a guy for either of those than it is marijuana in the drug testing. It's possible I'm wrong about the drugs; BUT a guy with a family history that's not good at setting boundaries on partying limits might not have the ability to say no once he's smoking weed.
Some people without chemical dependencies in their families can get drunk or have fun getting wasted without worry about getting back on track. William Green couldn't or we would have seen him come back to form IMO. I say such a thing because someone with his talent level just doesn't wake up a crappy football player 1 day. He had help; and his hottie LOVED to party every bit as much as she liked to play with knives. Let's just be thankful she didn't like to play with matches.
- Tom F.
True, but how often does marijuana lead to domestic altercations like a stabbing? I think alcohol and cocaine tend to be more the types of recreational drugs that lead to physical fights. Marijuana just mellows people so I think there was more to Wiliam Green's partying than marijuana.
Truth is - it's easier to detect THC in a drug test because of how long it stays in the system whereas cocaine and alcohol are water soluable; so it's tougher to bust a guy for either of those than it is marijuana in the drug testing. It's possible I'm wrong about the drugs; BUT a guy with a family history that's not good at setting boundaries on partying limits might not have the ability to say no once he's smoking weed.
Some people without chemical dependencies in their families can get drunk or have fun getting wasted without worry about getting back on track. William Green couldn't or we would have seen him come back to form IMO. I say such a thing because someone with his talent level just doesn't wake up a crappy football player 1 day. He had help; and his hottie LOVED to party every bit as much as she liked to play with knives. Let's just be thankful she didn't like to play with matches.
- Tom F.
reading that makes my head hurt
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True, but how often does marijuana lead to domestic altercations like a stabbing? I think alcohol and cocaine tend to be more the types of recreational drugs that lead to physical fights. Marijuana just mellows people so I think there was more to Wiliam Green's partying than marijuana.
Truth is - it's easier to detect THC in a drug test because of how long it stays in the system whereas cocaine and alcohol are water soluable; so it's tougher to bust a guy for either of those than it is marijuana in the drug testing. It's possible I'm wrong about the drugs; BUT a guy with a family history that's not good at setting boundaries on partying limits might not have the ability to say no once he's smoking weed.
Some people without chemical dependencies in their families can get drunk or have fun getting wasted without worry about getting back on track. William Green couldn't or we would have seen him come back to form IMO. I say such a thing because someone with his talent level just doesn't wake up a crappy football player 1 day. He had help; and his hottie LOVED to party every bit as much as she liked to play with knives. Let's just be thankful she didn't like to play with matches.
- Tom F.
reading that makes my head hurt
Colt12 said:
reading that makes my head hurtsmoke a bowl. you'll feel better. it's good for glaucoma, too!
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Colt12 said:
reading that makes my head hurtsmoke a bowl. you'll feel better. it's good for glaucoma, too!
it's good for glaucoma, too!
bahahaha you saw the movie Due Date?
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Correct me if I missed something (I skimmed a bit) but what is the point of this thread? Haden was a great pick. Bryant would have been a great pick as well. He has shown that he is the goods and I'm pretty sure you can't hold a broken ankle against the guy. He hasn't proven to be any sort of problem this year and looks to be one of the next great play makers. I'm not sure that who his dad is is relevant? The guy had 8 TDs in 11 weeks before his injury, there is no way you can say that Haden is a better pick at this time.
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Correct me if I missed something (I skimmed a bit) but what is the point of this thread? Haden was a great pick. Bryant would have been a great pick as well. He has shown that he is the goods and I'm pretty sure you can't hold a broken ankle against the guy. He hasn't proven to be any sort of problem this year and looks to be one of the next great play makers. I'm not sure that who his dad is is relevant? The guy had 8 TDs in 11 weeks before his injury, there is no way you can say that Haden is a better pick at this time.
Correct me if I missed something (I skimmed a bit) but what is the point of this thread? Haden was a great pick. Bryant would have been a great pick as well. He has shown that he is the goods and I'm pretty sure you can't hold a broken ankle against the guy. He hasn't proven to be any sort of problem this year and looks to be one of the next great play makers. I'm not sure that who his dad is is relevant? The guy had 8 TDs in 11 weeks before his injury, there is no way you can say that Haden is a better pick at this time.
The message of the thread is completed in the subject heading. The paragraphs that followed stated why I felt that way. I'm glad you bring a difference of opinion to the thread. I just feel unless a guy can help you from General Hospital - I sure can say Haden is a better pick at this time. Football is all about trends and the trend I've witnessed from Bryant is he hasn't completed very many seasons college or pro. It's a message board that solicits opinions and that's mine based off a trend.
This debate is about understanding WHERE we've thrown our 7th pick overall. CAN he be the x-factor we were missing? Who was defensive player of the month? Joe Haden. BEFORE that, who was the guy helping Hodeges lead the league with punts downed inside the 10 yard line? Here comes that name again: Joe Haden. Above all, does he have the character to be reliable for full seasons both mentally and physically?
I think Dez's glitz and glamour gets masked by the reality that the undrafted Miles Austin draws the #1 corner, while Roy Williams drew the #2 corner while Jason Witten attracted Safeties. VERY conducive to success for someone with Dez's skillset. That said, it isn't at all an apples to apples of what would have been thrown upon him in Cleveland. He would have drawn the #1 corner of the opponent without ANY of the perks Dallas was allotting him. They were talking Superbowl Sunday was a no brainer until it was discovered Dez's ankles were made in China with a warning label that reads: "fragile, handle with care."
- Tom F.
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I just equate his upbringing to that of William Green where he had horrible parents. There was an article in adraft guide where i read Dez's father was in his 40s at the time his 15 year old mother was impregnated by the guy.
Dez Bryant's dad banged his mom when he was 40 and she was 15? He is old enough to be her father.
And I can't agree more on the subject of A.J. Green and Julio Jones. I live in South Florida and am a Florida fan and IMO, Julio Jones is a man playing among boys in the SEC. He had his best game of the year while playing with a broken hand, not to mention he pounded the shit out of my Gators
Colt12 said:
Dez Bryant's dad banged his mom when he was 40 and she was 15? He is old enough to be her father.And I can't agree more on the subject of A.J. Green and Julio Jones. I live in South Florida and am a Florida fan and IMO, Julio Jones is a man playing among boys in the SEC. He had his best game of the year while playing with a broken hand, not to mention he pounded the shit out of my Gators
My only concern with Jones is his catching ability. He cleared some of that up this year by not dropping as many balls but I am worried that he will just turn into another Brickhands Edwards. I would actually take Blackmon over Jones but then again Blackmon doesn't have the size that I would like to see in a WR that we are going to pick.
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Correct me if I missed something (I skimmed a bit) but what is the point of this thread? Haden was a great pick. Bryant would have been a great pick as well. He has shown that he is the goods and I'm pretty sure you can't hold a broken ankle against the guy. He hasn't proven to be any sort of problem this year and looks to be one of the next great play makers. I'm not sure that who his dad is is relevant? The guy had 8 TDs in 11 weeks before his injury, there is no way you can say that Haden is a better pick at this time.
Correct me if I missed something (I skimmed a bit) but what is the point of this thread? Haden was a great pick. Bryant would have been a great pick as well. He has shown that he is the goods and I'm pretty sure you can't hold a broken ankle against the guy. He hasn't proven to be any sort of problem this year and looks to be one of the next great play makers. I'm not sure that who his dad is is relevant? The guy had 8 TDs in 11 weeks before his injury, there is no way you can say that Haden is a better pick at this time.
And both are way better than Fluges' fave, C.J. Spiller!! Love you, Thomas.
As to the quoted post, this is the only rational take here. Nobody nowhere is saying Bryant WASN'T a steal. The re-do draft had Haden at 17 and Bryant at 8, right? As Jaws said, Bryant simply looks like the best football player on the field most of the time. He's a tremendous talent and it clearly showed. To the surprise of almost nobody, he's been a great teammate and stayed out trouble (something he's done his whole life).
Haden has really, REALLY come on, and I'm thrilled. I was iffy on the pick because I don't know how much a CB can affect the bottom line with the rules changes. I did NOT say he wasn't good. He's a very good corner with a chance to be great. Has his emergence pushed us to a winning streak? Well... no. But he's an excellent corner and in today's NFL you need at least one shutdown guy. So I'm not nearly as disgruntled as I was.
Would I still like to have taken Dez Bryant first and a corner later? Yup. But that's irrelevant. As I've said, the Browns and others are probably lucky I'm not the GM (and Fluges, too, who would've picked Spiller). But my pick still would have been Bryant.
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Does raise the question of where A.J. and Julio fit with Dez. A lot of the top draftnicks declared Bryant the best WR talent in the draft since Calvin Johnson... and I'm not sure you could find too many who disagreed then or now.
Jones is a beast and a great prospect, but you're not gonna hear that kind of talk because he just hasn't displayed Bryant's ball skills. I don't honestly believe anybody's going to suggest that Jones is as good a prospect as Bryant.
Green? Probably closer. Not as physical but has good hands and is "long," tall with long arms and jumping ability.
If he stays healthy, I think Bryant is the most complete WR prospect this side of Johnson -- big, strong, fast, great hands, physical and passionate about the game. It's tough to beat.
Why did he fall? Well, I'm not the guy to ask because I think it was Retarded. He missed a year and developed a reputation as a flake (not a tool or a criminal, mind you). I think Banks is right: A lot of teams would like a do-over. Considering the Browns tried to trade back into the first round to get him, I would be interested to hear how Holmgren feels about him.
For the record, my draft crush last year was obviously Bryant. The year before it was Sanchez and Hakeem Nicks. My biggest draft crush of all time was Aaron Rodgers. I was pretty high on Lights Out. I'm not gonna steal Heckert's job, but I think that's not too bad.
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Correct me if I missed something (I skimmed a bit) but what is the point of this thread? Haden was a great pick. Bryant would have been a great pick as well. He has shown that he is the goods and I'm pretty sure you can't hold a broken ankle against the guy. He hasn't proven to be any sort of problem this year and looks to be one of the next great play makers. I'm not sure that who his dad is is relevant? The guy had 8 TDs in 11 weeks before his injury, there is no way you can say that Haden is a better pick at this time.
And both are way better than Fluges' fave, C.J. Spiller!! Love you, Thomas.
As to the quoted post, this is the only rational take here. Nobody nowhere is saying Bryant WASN'T a steal. The re-do draft had Haden at 17 and Bryant at 8, right? As Jaws said, Bryant simply looks like the best football player on the field most of the time. He's a tremendous talent and it clearly showed. To the surprise of almost nobody, he's been a great teammate and stayed out trouble (something he's done his whole life).
Haden has really, REALLY come on, and I'm thrilled. I was iffy on the pick because I don't know how much a CB can affect the bottom line with the rules changes. I did NOT say he wasn't good. He's a very good corner with a chance to be great. Has his emergence pushed us to a winning streak? Well... no. But he's an excellent corner and in today's NFL you need at least one shutdown guy. So I'm not nearly as disgruntled as I was.
Would I still like to have taken Dez Bryant first and a corner later? Yup. But that's irrelevant. As I've said, the Browns and others are probably lucky I'm not the GM (and Fluges, too, who would've picked Spiller). But my pick still would have been Bryant.
And both are way better than Fluges' fave, C.J. Spiller!! Love you, Thomas.
As to the quoted post, this is the only rational take here. Nobody nowhere is saying Bryant WASN'T a steal. The re-do draft had Haden at 17 and Bryant at 8, right? As Jaws said, Bryant simply looks like the best football player on the field most of the time. He's a tremendous talent and it clearly showed. To the surprise of almost nobody, he's been a great teammate and stayed out trouble (something he's done his whole life).
Haden has really, REALLY come on, and I'm thrilled. I was iffy on the pick because I don't know how much a CB can affect the bottom line with the rules changes. I did NOT say he wasn't good. He's a very good corner with a chance to be great. Has his emergence pushed us to a winning streak? Well... no. But he's an excellent corner and in today's NFL you need at least one shutdown guy. So I'm not nearly as disgruntled as I was.
Would I still like to have taken Dez Bryant first and a corner later? Yup. But that's irrelevant. As I've said, the Browns and others are probably lucky I'm not the GM (and Fluges, too, who would've picked Spiller). But my pick still would have been Bryant.
Thats because its the only rational that needs to be taken. When you weigh in the fact that the upcoming draft is the deepest WR draft in 20+ years come on you REALLY can't tell me you wouldn't take the best CB prospect that the NFL has seen in a while, and is a Revis clone. You have seen what Revis has done for the jets D haven't you?
You've said it 5 hundred billion times this is a passing league. If you take the pass away you have a damn good chance of winning.
This upcoming draft is the offensive draft so don't you worry we'll get that long coveted WR
oh and one other thing, how many games has Bryant won for the cowboys? How many has Moss Won for NE, Minn or tennesee this year? The answer is 0. While a superstar receiver is nice it doesn't do crap for you if you don't have the correct roll players in place.
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That's a smart post, Steel... and good points. I actually told Alo almost the same thing, that if the Browns turn around and get a great WR in the next draft who at least comes close to being a Dez Bryant (who I think has about 8 Pro Bowls ahead of him)... then it's gold, Jerry.
But keep this in mind: With Revis having the best year of any CB in memory in 2009, the Jets should have been 7-9. Both the Bengals and Colts rested their starters the last two games. When Manning DID play against the Jets? Route. Full-on route. Manning trumps Revis.
That's what Revis did for the Jets. He played his position as well as it can be played... and it drove his team to what should have been a 7-9 record. The guy in Oakland with the difficult name drives them home for the playoffs.
My issue has never been that those guys or Haden aren't good. It's that the rule changes have made it difficult for a great pass defense to stall a great pass offense. Madden thinks the only way is with a pass rush, disrupting the great conductor (Manning, Brady, Brees, etc.). He doesn't think you can cover your way out of it. Gruden says you have to match them in the passing game, score as many points. Most DCs will tell you to play a zone, a Cover 2, and don't ask your CBs to shut people down.
Hell, Revis couldn't "shut down" Evan Moore when it mattered.
It's a complicated debate... but I personally wouldn't take corners in the top 10. I still feel that way even though I love Haden.
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That's a smart post, Steel... and good points. I actually told Alo almost the same thing, that if the Browns turn around and get a great WR in the next draft who at least comes close to being a Dez Bryant (who I think has about 8 Pro Bowls ahead of him)... then it's gold, Jerry.
But keep this in mind: With Revis having the best year of any CB in memory in 2009, the Jets should have been 7-9. Both the Bengals and Colts rested their starters the last two games. When Manning DID play against the Jets? Route. Full-on route. Manning trumps Revis.
That's what Revis did for the Jets. He played his position as well as it can be played... and it drove his team to what should have been a 7-9 record. The guy in Oakland with the difficult name drives them home for the playoffs.
My issue has never been that those guys or Haden aren't good. It's that the rule changes have made it difficult for a great pass defense to stall a great pass offense. Madden thinks the only way is with a pass rush, disrupting the great conductor (Manning, Brady, Brees, etc.). He doesn't think you can cover your way out of it. Gruden says you have to match them in the passing game, score as many points. Most DCs will tell you to play a zone, a Cover 2, and don't ask your CBs to shut people down.
Hell, Revis couldn't "shut down" Evan Moore when it mattered.
It's a complicated debate... but I personally wouldn't take corners in the top 10. I still feel that way even though I love Haden.
That's a smart post, Steel... and good points. I actually told Alo almost the same thing, that if the Browns turn around and get a great WR in the next draft who at least comes close to being a Dez Bryant (who I think has about 8 Pro Bowls ahead of him)... then it's gold, Jerry.
But keep this in mind: With Revis having the best year of any CB in memory in 2009, the Jets should have been 7-9. Both the Bengals and Colts rested their starters the last two games. When Manning DID play against the Jets? Route. Full-on route. Manning trumps Revis.
That's what Revis did for the Jets. He played his position as well as it can be played... and it drove his team to what should have been a 7-9 record. The guy in Oakland with the difficult name drives them home for the playoffs.
My issue has never been that those guys or Haden aren't good. It's that the rule changes have made it difficult for a great pass defense to stall a great pass offense. Madden thinks the only way is with a pass rush, disrupting the great conductor (Manning, Brady, Brees, etc.). He doesn't think you can cover your way out of it. Gruden says you have to match them in the passing game, score as many points. Most DCs will tell you to play a zone, a Cover 2, and don't ask your CBs to shut people down.
Hell, Revis couldn't "shut down" Evan Moore when it mattered.
It's a complicated debate... but I personally wouldn't take corners in the top 10. I still feel that way even though I love Haden.
Then it comes down to being a QB thing and not a WR or CB thing. The reason Manning did so well against Revis is because he is Manning. You could put our receivers with him and I guarantee at least one becomes a big time player.
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That's a smart post, Steel... and good points. I actually told Alo almost the same thing, that if the Browns turn around and get a great WR in the next draft who at least comes close to being a Dez Bryant (who I think has about 8 Pro Bowls ahead of him)... then it's gold, Jerry.
But keep this in mind: With Revis having the best year of any CB in memory in 2009, the Jets should have been 7-9. Both the Bengals and Colts rested their starters the last two games. When Manning DID play against the Jets? Route. Full-on route. Manning trumps Revis.
That's what Revis did for the Jets. He played his position as well as it can be played... and it drove his team to what should have been a 7-9 record. The guy in Oakland with the difficult name drives them home for the playoffs.
My issue has never been that those guys or Haden aren't good. It's that the rule changes have made it difficult for a great pass defense to stall a great pass offense. Madden thinks the only way is with a pass rush, disrupting the great conductor (Manning, Brady, Brees, etc.). He doesn't think you can cover your way out of it. Gruden says you have to match them in the passing game, score as many points. Most DCs will tell you to play a zone, a Cover 2, and don't ask your CBs to shut people down.
Hell, Revis couldn't "shut down" Evan Moore when it mattered.
It's a complicated debate... but I personally wouldn't take corners in the top 10. I still feel that way even though I love Haden.
Then it comes down to being a QB thing and not a WR or CB thing. The reason Manning did so well against Revis is because he is Manning. You could put our receivers with him and I guarantee at least one becomes a big time player.
Then it comes down to being a QB thing and not a WR or CB thing. The reason Manning did so well against Revis is because he is Manning. You could put our receivers with him and I guarantee at least one becomes a big time player.
This is where we wind ourselves back to total agreement. It's no coincidence that Indy, New Orleans, Green Bay, and New England keep finding "steals" all over the draft at WR and TE (Tamme? Huh?).
I think there's a point at which a WR simply can't play, can't get open. I think that's true of Robiskie because he isn't strong, fast, OR quick. There are also guys who just seems to have an instinct and there are other guys who can make plays when they're covered. But you gotta have SOMETHING.
But on the QB thing... I totally agree. It's so much more important than anything else, you really can't even think of it as an ordinary "position." It's way bigger than that.
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Haden is awesome but i fault mangini and ryan for not using him more early on instead keeping wright on the field cost us at least 2 games and it was uncalled for as haden out of the gate was better than wright..
Haden is awesome but i fault mangini and ryan for not using him more early on instead keeping wright on the field cost us at least 2 games and it was uncalled for as haden out of the gate was better than wright..
You can't fault the coaches when you didn't see Haden practice each week. They started playing him when he was ready. I realize you dont like the coaching staff but you can look back on any season (regardless of coach) and say "woulda coulda shoulda." Hindsight is always 20/20.
If Mangini starts Haden too soon and he plays poorly, there goes the kid's confidence. IMO, they gave him more and more to work with each week, and let him prove himself rather than making a rash decision at the beginning of the year... Until Haden learned the plays, he wouldn't have been much better than Wright...
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