Colt McCoy - Arm Strength
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Ok, I like Colt. I like his pocket presence, so far he is making good decisions. He's accurate and can scramble.
However, a few deeper passes from him fell short. I'm not the type of guy to follow combines, and follow physical stats such as that, but does he have the arm strength that we need. They could have been poorly thrown or underthrown. At least we have someone throwing downfield.
Ok, I like Colt. I like his pocket presence, so far he is making good decisions. He's accurate and can scramble.
However, a few deeper passes from him fell short. I'm not the type of guy to follow combines, and follow physical stats such as that, but does he have the arm strength that we need. They could have been poorly thrown or underthrown. At least we have someone throwing downfield.
I don't think you really need to throw the ball 70 yards to be a good NFL qb. McCoy is extremely accurate compared to what we had in the past. If you really want a strong arm qb....I think DA will be available. The next couple games will tell us a lot about our qb situation, but based on what I've already seen, McCoy is the guy to build this offense around.
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To be completely honest, Colt is doing perfectly fine. I am 100% happy with what he has done. If he makes a mistake then that's cool. He's not a veteran that has made any particular mistakes in the NFL. I'd rather see him grow to be a great quarterback, especially for our franchise. If he's not the answer in a few years then so be it. The guy is ultra competitive, can lead, is accurate, reads schemes very well from what I have seen, can scramble and get out of trouble and above all, he is a play maker. That is what I want. I am not concerned with him being able to throw 150 yards to the Wendy's down the street. Sure, having a deep ball presence is very nice and CAN be utilized but in all honesty, how often are our WR's able to catch a ball such as that. They barely get separation as it is.
Colt is doing just fine. If you sitting there picking at any little faction of his play, get over yourself, please.
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Don't get me wrong... Other than a couple of deeper balls that fell short... I like him. He is showing great poise. The best looking QB we've had behind center since Kosar IMO. And yes, I understand that you don't have to have a cannon for an arm, but being able to stretch the D with the deep ball, and have that play in the back of the D's mind is always nice.
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The under thrown deep ball to Mo Mass (that went through his hands) was a result of Colt not being able to follow through on his throw. If he did, he would have surely smashed one of his fingers on the helmet of the defender that was in his face. If you can, go back and watch the replay and you'll see that he pulled up early to avoid that, which was a pretty smart move if you ask me.
There was also another deep ball that came up short because the ball slipped out of his hand, probably because it was ice cold.
That's 2 out of maybe 3 throws over 30-35 yards where you really can't say that it looked like he lacked arm strength. The good thing is that we know Daboll will be calling those deep balls in the next 2 games to evaluate that arm strength so it should be exciting to watch.
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Rewatching the game may shed some light on the effort he put into each toss.
Colt is flicking his wrist on many of those throws, a la Steve Young in my book, he is not heaving them, so that is not a concern I share.
He displays remarkable touch over the middle on his throws to Watson, again, a little flick/flip.
Also, MoMass has his head in the clouds, shoulda pulled that longer one in.
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Zombo said:
Not a concern. Plenty of zip all over the field. It was below freezing yesterday, making deep balls risky. He's got NFL arm strength ... he is the complete package.Zombo
--Charlie Frye mastered the wonderlik and DA could knock down a barn with his throws ... doesn't matter if they don't have accuracy and "it" ... which Colt does.
This. He also makes decisions very quickly, which means he can throw a catchable ball into a tight window, as opposed to needing that bullet (although his bullets have good zip as well).
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Colt is very very accurate and throws a nice catchable ball. But, there are times where you have third and 20 or more and you cannot throw the ball five yards. I'm glad he has two more cold weather games to judge his arm with cold/wet conditions.
Holmgren said they have been working on building Colt's arm strength
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I wrote this elsewhere, but his arm looks really "live," with the ball popping off and spinning fast even when he flicks it. He'll never have a cannon, but neither do most of the top quarterbacks. Cutler has a bazooka and Rodgers' arm is top 5 or so, but honestly after that it's a big scrum with good-enough arms. It's really about anticipation, accuracy, and enough zip.
I'd say McCoy's arm is similar to Sanchez and Brees, and I would NOT have said that 10 months ago. I think he throws a way tighter ball with a much livelier arm than he did even at his workout last April. He looks bigger and stronger period.
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I wrote this elsewhere, but his arm looks really "live," with the ball popping off and spinning fast even when he flicks it. He'll never have a cannon, but neither do most of the top quarterbacks. Cutler has a bazooka and Rodgers' arm is top 5 or so, but honestly after that it's a big scrum with good-enough arms. It's really about anticipation, accuracy, and enough zip.
I'd say McCoy's arm is similar to Sanchez and Brees, and I would NOT have said that 10 months ago. I think he throws a way tighter ball with a much livelier arm than he did even at his workout last April. He looks bigger and stronger period.
I wrote this elsewhere, but his arm looks really "live," with the ball popping off and spinning fast even when he flicks it. He'll never have a cannon, but neither do most of the top quarterbacks. Cutler has a bazooka and Rodgers' arm is top 5 or so, but honestly after that it's a big scrum with good-enough arms. It's really about anticipation, accuracy, and enough zip.
I'd say McCoy's arm is similar to Sanchez and Brees, and I would NOT have said that 10 months ago. I think he throws a way tighter ball with a much livelier arm than he did even at his workout last April. He looks bigger and stronger period.
Did you watch his workout? I thought the workout was private.
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I wrote this elsewhere, but his arm looks really "live," with the ball popping off and spinning fast even when he flicks it. He'll never have a cannon, but neither do most of the top quarterbacks. Cutler has a bazooka and Rodgers' arm is top 5 or so, but honestly after that it's a big scrum with good-enough arms. It's really about anticipation, accuracy, and enough zip.
I'd say McCoy's arm is similar to Sanchez and Brees, and I would NOT have said that 10 months ago. I think he throws a way tighter ball with a much livelier arm than he did even at his workout last April. He looks bigger and stronger period.
I wrote this elsewhere, but his arm looks really "live," with the ball popping off and spinning fast even when he flicks it. He'll never have a cannon, but neither do most of the top quarterbacks. Cutler has a bazooka and Rodgers' arm is top 5 or so, but honestly after that it's a big scrum with good-enough arms. It's really about anticipation, accuracy, and enough zip.
I'd say McCoy's arm is similar to Sanchez and Brees, and I would NOT have said that 10 months ago. I think he throws a way tighter ball with a much livelier arm than he did even at his workout last April. He looks bigger and stronger period.
You keep trying to act like this kid just learned how to QB and throw a football the last couple of months and it is a joke, the only reason you are doing it is because you whiffed like Cory Snyder at a Roger Clemons fastball in your expert analysis on Colt. People like myself spent much of the offseason trying to explain to folks like you that this kid could play, but all we kept hearing was the nonsense that he is a midget with no arm etc.
Just come clean and admit you missed profusely on this kid and quit trying to spin it. You whiffed my man-----badly, badly badly. Eat your crow and quit trying to make it seem like all of a sudden McCoy figured it out to soothe your wounded ego.
The kid had four years of highlights to go by, and if you would have bothered to watch him while in school you would have noticed the kid could play instead of going by the draft guru propaganda hyperbolic online bullshit. He is the alltime winningest college QB and BTW, Texas completely sucked ass this year. His workout got really good reviews, but most of the guys who didn't want him were busy poo pooing those reviews.
Just man up and admit you whiffed on the kid, one freaking time. It will give you a lot more of the respect you are looking for so badly. people respect guys that admit they missed. For example, I thought Eric Zeier was going to be a winner right after the draft and wanted him in the draft. Then, he had some big games but dropped off the map. I whiffed. See how easy that was?
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I can only say what I see, Riff. Sorry if you don't like it or agree, both of which are fine. But we're both very high on McCoy now, so it's all good.
BTW, I've probably written here ten times that I was wrong about McCoy. I wasn't wrong because I don't have eyes or didn't watch film... I based my opinion on him then based on what I saw when he was on TV every Saturday, tons of YouTube footage. and his workout. I reacted to what I saw.
Immediately after the Pittsburgh game, I wrote that I was HUGELY impressed at the way he threw the football. And I've joked many times here that the Browns and the other 31 teams are pretty lucky that none of us are GMs, including me.
I realize that's not what it's really about with you and me... but there you go. Good to see you here.
What does that mean, though... the respect I'm looking for so badly? That didn't make any sense. We're just bullshitting on a Browns board here, right? Is there something I'm missing?
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I realize that's not what it's really about with you and me... but there you go. Good to see you here.--Shepthollomew
It isn't about "you and me", it is simply about you need to quit trying to pretend the kid just learned how to throw a football, period.
But we all know you will never just come out and say----after all the expert analysis ytu had---you were wrong by a mile.
And I have never left here.
Is a pig's ass pork? -
To me, Colt's success in spite of scouts and pundits exposes a more general problem with evaluation of quarterbacks: underrating intangibles. With the exception of course being Tebow, but of course he has the physical tools that make scouts drool, even if his mechanics are.. shall we say.. unpolished.
McCoy refused to accept being benched. He prepared every week like he was going to be a starter. He never loses confidence, even when he makes mistakes. Those qualities aren't really measurable, so they get overlooked.
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I realize that's not what it's really about with you and me... but there you go. Good to see you here.--Shepthollomew
It isn't about "you and me", it is simply about you need to quit trying to pretend the kid just learned how to throw a football, period.
But we all know you will never just come out and say----after all the expert analysis ytu had---you were wrong by a mile.
And I have never left here.
It isn't about "you and me", it is simply about you need to quit trying to pretend the kid just learned how to throw a football, period.
But we all know you will never just come out and say----after all the expert analysis ytu had---you were wrong by a mile.
And I have never left here.
I was wrong in the sense that McCoy is really, really good. I've only written that about 10 times here. I love watching him. I also said about 50 times on the other board that as soon as he does something to change my mind, I'll be the first one broadcasting that. And I did, starting with one minute after the Steelers game. He looked awesome and I was psyched. But he absolutely looks much better than the guy I "scouted"... apparently the same guy all 32 teams scouted and passed on repeatedly. They're surprised, too.
I'm a man of my word... if you take the time to actually listen to what I'm saying, which you don't because that's not what it's about for you.
I'd love to have you here talking Browns because I don't hold a grudge at all. But judging me, writing about my desperate yearning for "respect?" I'd seriously consider letting that go. It's getting kind of weird.
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To me, Colt's success in spite of scouts and pundits exposes a more general problem with evaluation of quarterbacks: underrating intangibles. With the exception of course being Tebow, but of course he has the physical tools that make scouts drool, even if his mechanics are.. shall we say.. unpolished.
McCoy refused to accept being benched. He prepared every week like he was going to be a starter. He never loses confidence, even when he makes mistakes. Those qualities aren't really measurable, so they get overlooked.
To me, Colt's success in spite of scouts and pundits exposes a more general problem with evaluation of quarterbacks: underrating intangibles. With the exception of course being Tebow, but of course he has the physical tools that make scouts drool, even if his mechanics are.. shall we say.. unpolished.
McCoy refused to accept being benched. He prepared every week like he was going to be a starter. He never loses confidence, even when he makes mistakes. Those qualities aren't really measurable, so they get overlooked.
I agree. When he was, well... NOT impressing anybody throughout the preseason, I said you can't really count out a kid with that kind of fire and work ethic. They tend to find a way... I just didn't think it would happen quite so fast. In retrospect, I think that last preseason game was more meaningful than I thought at the time. He was unlearning a pretty funky Texas offense... and has clearly been doing his homework in the film room AND in the weight room.
He has "it." "
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To me, Colt's success in spite of scouts and pundits exposes a more general problem with evaluation of quarterbacks: underrating intangibles. With the exception of course being Tebow, but of course he has the physical tools that make scouts drool, even if his mechanics are.. shall we say.. unpolished.
McCoy refused to accept being benched. He prepared every week like he was going to be a starter. He never loses confidence, even when he makes mistakes. Those qualities aren't really measurable, so they get overlooked.
I agree. When he was, well... NOT impressing anybody throughout the preseason, I said you can't really count out a kid with that kind of fire and work ethic. They tend to find a way... I just didn't think it would happen quite so fast. In retrospect, I think that last preseason game was more meaningful than I thought at the time. He was unlearning a pretty funky Texas offense... and has clearly been doing his homework in the film room AND in the weight room.
He has "it." "
I agree. When he was, well... NOT impressing anybody throughout the preseason, I said you can't really count out a kid with that kind of fire and work ethic. They tend to find a way... I just didn't think it would happen quite so fast. In retrospect, I think that last preseason game was more meaningful than I thought at the time. He was unlearning a pretty funky Texas offense... and has clearly been doing his homework in the film room AND in the weight room.
He has "it." "
I don't know about the weight room, he played at 210 lbs last year. I doubt he's much bigger now. I do know he could bench 300 lbs. My guess is they're working with the right kind of muscles to help his throwing. Could be more core workouts or something. Texas' strength and conditioning program has been very "meh" for a couple of years... focusing on getting size but not developing the right kinds of muscle fibers that are different for every individual role.
9 times out of 10 a college QB with a mediocre arm but excellent intangibles won't succeed in the NFL; I don't think scouts were necessarily wrong in their evaluation. But college QBs with excellent arms and mediocre intangibles don't really succeed either.
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Amazing post, Ghoolie. I've really been thinking about ALL that stuff as it relates to Internet boards. It's hard enough to accurately judge/understand other people you actually know... but trying to draw conclusions about people you know only from typed words on a computer screen is f-ing psychotic.
For all the chickenshitting we've done over the 15 years, I never felt like it was personal and I always thought you were pretty damn hilarious. Personalities and heated debate are the lifeblood of boards. But once people go personal and mean... it goes to shit. It has to be moderated and full-on forbidden. We'd all love to avoid "censorship," but I've yet to see a board work when anybody can say anything to anybody, even chronically.
Saw a perfectly good writer's board blow to pieces over it about 10 years ago. Me and a few others pleaded with the (famous screenwriter) moderators to simply delete messages that were personally insulting... but they were committed to a completely "free and open" approach. Did not work.
Hell, Tom and I have disagreed vehemently across several boards... and we talk on the phone about once every couple weeks. It's fun... or can be.
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Biggest knock on him coming out or at least one of the biggest was his LACK of arm strength.
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Biggest knock on him coming out or at least one of the biggest was his LACK of arm strength.
Homotron said:
Biggest knock on him coming out or at least one of the biggest was his LACK of arm strength.No doubt about it... and it was valid. His workout was really safe and the ball didn't seem to be popping off his release. If you watched a lot of film on him, you saw that he turned the ball a little, made it flutter, and struggled on passes over 25 yards. I thought he showed up to training camp looking markedly stronger in the upper body and sporting some pretty impressive guns, but I didn't see a lot more arm strength.
But almost from jump street in the Steelers game? I saw a difference. His release looked cleaner and you could see how live his arm was. At least it seemed that way to me.
Credit to Holmgren: He had a quote about how the McCoy you'd see in a year would be very, very different. And kudos to McCoy for accelerating that growth.
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His arm strength is fine, once we get a fast wr that can get separation; all colt has to do is throw it earlier ( with separation of course ) and have the wr catch up to it for a big yac
.jpg.a1a2b9a0c33008fdaf4097d8fe2cfd64.jpg "Riffer X"){kind=avatar}
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