Holmgren and Committment to WCO
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If Holmgren was really sold on McCoy and the WCO, would he have waited until Round 6 to draft him? This is hypothetical but my gut tells me McCoy would have been drafted by the Browns much earlier if Holmgren envisioned him as a strong NFL candidate to run the WCO in Cleveland - a place quite different than the moderate temperatures of SF.
Bottom line is I really don't know how strongly Holmgren is committed to either the WCO or Colt McCoy. Maybe he is and, just maybe, he isn't. I wouldn't be shocked to see the Browns draft a 'franchise' big and strong-armed QB in the first round.
Feedback requested.
We drafted McCoy in the third round not the sixth.
If Holmgren was really sold on McCoy and the WCO, would he have waited until Round 6 to draft him? This is hypothetical but my gut tells me McCoy would have been drafted by the Browns much earlier if Holmgren envisioned him as a strong NFL candidate to run the WCO in Cleveland - a place quite different than the moderate temperatures of SF.
Bottom line is I really don't know how strongly Holmgren is committed to either the WCO or Colt McCoy. Maybe he is and, just maybe, he isn't. I wouldn't be shocked to see the Browns draft a 'franchise' big and strong-armed QB in the first round.
Feedback requested.
We drafted McCoy in the third round not the sixth.
I don't think he was being serous when he said that we got him in the sixth and was just making a point in saying that we would have taken him in the 2nd instead of risking losing him with with where he was actually drafted. I will say though that I think Holmgren held off having Heckert draft McCoy sooner (McCoy was the only player where Holmgren flashed his badge to Heckert, pulled rank and said draft this guy) because at the time he didn't know if the WCO would even be ran here in cleveland. Remember he kept Mangini for the same reason he has kept Deboll and Ryan, because he wanted to see if their systems worked. So far this season he has learned the Daboll's offense doesn't work and that Ryan's defense does. So now it will be Holmgren's job to hire a WCO coordinator (we already have on working in the office) and possible a head coach who's focus is the WCO.
Also for some reason this guy makes it seem that weather is going to be a factor for the west coast offense, making it seem like it won't work here because of the weather, but but cold weather isn't going to affect this offense.
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[Also for some reason this guy makes it seem that weather is going to be a factor for the west coast offense, making it seem like it won't work here because of the weather, but but cold weather isn't going to affect this offense.
Agreed, weather wont be a factor, as it wasnt in Greenbay and at Candlestick (swirling winds). I think no matter what happens we will be in a "WCO" next year. This year was not a West Coast Offense by any means. Just because you throw a couple of short passes doesnt mean you run a WCO..
I hated the fact they try to spin off Daboll as running some version of it.. COME ON...
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[Also for some reason this guy makes it seem that weather is going to be a factor for the west coast offense, making it seem like it won't work here because of the weather, but but cold weather isn't going to affect this offense.
Agreed, weather wont be a factor, as it wasnt in Greenbay and at Candlestick (swirling winds). I think no matter what happens we will be in a "WCO" next year. This year was not a West Coast Offense by any means. Just because you throw a couple of short passes doesnt mean you run a WCO..
I hated the fact they try to spin off Daboll as running some version of it.. COME ON...
[Also for some reason this guy makes it seem that weather is going to be a factor for the west coast offense, making it seem like it won't work here because of the weather, but but cold weather isn't going to affect this offense.
Agreed, weather wont be a factor, as it wasnt in Greenbay and at Candlestick (swirling winds). I think no matter what happens we will be in a "WCO" next year. This year was not a West Coast Offense by any means. Just because you throw a couple of short passes doesnt mean you run a WCO..
I hated the fact they try to spin off Daboll as running some version of it.. COME ON...
Dabs only runs what mangini lets him run why do you think mangini brought dabs with him?
So when we talk dabs going bye bye we need to add the idiot who hired him and then vouched for him to holmgren, mangini is bent on running the offense his way as can be evidenced by the jets OC mangini strangles offenses to death and browns fans dont even see it such little things as no screen plays or variety in the offense either player rotation or plays and its all mangini incorporated and approved...
As far as WCO in mangini's offense i really dont see it all i see is power left, power right, power over center, punt...
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@junkyard-dawg said:
Actually it was. The "WCO" was the offense Paul Brown ran here in Cleveland in the 1940's and 1950's before taking it to Cinci. Walsh has stated it, Holmgren has stated it and it's factual. Go watch some old school Browns games and see for yourself, the masters at it aren't handing credit to someone else for no reason.nope...All walsh learned and studied under Brown were in game strategies in fact Bernie Kosar coined the phrase West Coast Ofeense...read this link...it will tell you where it came from.
"The Walsh offense owes much to the past. As a Raiders' assistant in 1966, Walsh learned under Al Davis and John Rauch, who was the Raider's head coach. Raiders football was based on the theories of Sid Gillman. Al Davis had taken Gillman one step further. This system became the basis of Walsh's offense.
Gillman brought refinement to the game. Every technique and skill was isolated. In the Raiders organization, Walsh had no barriers to restrict creativity. It was a fully dimensional approach. For example, a system was developed for offensive line blocking that used almost all conceivable blocking combinations. It took time to learn it, but when the linemen mastered it they were well equipped to handle any situation.
The pass offense included an almost unlimited variety of pass patterns as well as a system of calling them. Coach Walsh used backs and tightends more than anybody in the NFL in his passing game".
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No two playbooks in the NFL are identical, regardless of coaches backgrounds.
An offense has to be built around the personnel, especially the quarterback, and not the other way around.
I don't care what the base system or teminology is called, our offense next year has to be built around Colt's strengths.
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If Holmgren was really sold on McCoy and the WCO, would he have waited until Round 6 to draft him? This is hypothetical but my gut tells me McCoy would have been drafted by the Browns much earlier if Holmgren envisioned him as a strong NFL candidate to run the WCO in Cleveland - a place quite different than the moderate temperatures of SF.
Bottom line is I really don't know how strongly Holmgren is committed to either the WCO or Colt McCoy. Maybe he is and, just maybe, he isn't. I wouldn't be shocked to see the Browns draft a 'franchise' big and strong-armed QB in the first round.
Feedback requested.
We drafted McCoy in the third round not the sixth.
I don't think he was being serous when he said that we got him in the sixth and was just making a point in saying that we would have taken him in the 2nd instead of risking losing him with with where he was actually drafted. I will say though that I think Holmgren held off having Heckert draft McCoy sooner (McCoy was the only player where Holmgren flashed his badge to Heckert, pulled rank and said draft this guy) because at the time he didn't know if the WCO would even be ran here in cleveland. Remember he kept Mangini for the same reason he has kept Deboll and Ryan, because he wanted to see if their systems worked. So far this season he has learned the Daboll's offense doesn't work and that Ryan's defense does. So now it will be Holmgren's job to hire a WCO coordinator (we already have on working in the office) and possible a head coach who's focus is the WCO.
Also for some reason this guy makes it seem that weather is going to be a factor for the west coast offense, making it seem like it won't work here because of the weather, but but cold weather isn't going to affect this offense.
Hillis-iz-Boss said:
I don't think he was being serous when he said that we got him in the sixth .........Actually, I was serious but I was wrong. I do remember watching the draft results and thinking how the Browns let McCoy slide.
A 3rd pick is a legitimate pick with expectations of becoming an NFL player.
However, I still wonder about the upcoming draft.
FWIW, I'd like to see Mangini and McCoy get extended.
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Hillis-iz-Boss said:
I don't think he was being serous when he said that we got him in the sixth .........Actually, I was serious but I was wrong. I do remember watching the draft results and thinking how the Browns let McCoy slide.
A 3rd pick is a legitimate pick with expectations of becoming an NFL player.
However, I still wonder about the upcoming draft.
FWIW, I'd like to see Mangini and McCoy get extended.
Actually, I was serious but I was wrong. I do remember watching the draft results and thinking how the Browns let McCoy slide.
A 3rd pick is a legitimate pick with expectations of becoming an NFL player.
However, I still wonder about the upcoming draft.
FWIW, I'd like to see Mangini and McCoy get extended.
I don't want to see either of them get extended! Why waste the money when Mangini has one year left on his contract and there is a 50/50 chance he will be fired anyway, and why give Colt an extension when he has 4 years on his contract and just passed a bonus clause that will next him $600,000 more in his 3rd or 4th year of play (i'm also not going to throw all my eggs in one basket with him just yet).
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We'll see how Mallett does Tuesday night. I'm sure Holmgren, Haskell, and Heckert will be watching.
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McCoy ran primarily a spread option offense at Texas. That uses more receivers and usually includes more deep balls than the WCO. Personally I'd love to see the Browns run either/both but each of those offenses require having a smart, fast-thinking QB, an oline that gives the QB time and having a solid stable of receivers and good TE's. As was earlier stated, good FB is also required.
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No two playbooks in the NFL are identical, regardless of coaches backgrounds.
An offense has to be built around the personnel, especially the quarterback, and not the other way around.
I don't care what the base system or teminology is called, our offense next year has to be built around Colt's strengths.
No two playbooks in the NFL are identical, regardless of coaches backgrounds.
An offense has to be built around the personnel, especially the quarterback, and not the other way around.
I don't care what the base system or teminology is called, our offense next year has to be built around Colt's strengths.
McCoy is a career backup QB.As evident the last 3 to 4 games.Passing 5 to 10 yards to a TE and RB won't win many games.He has been unable to pass down field in December and January.Lets not forget how great Brian Sipe was,yet he never won a playoff game.
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No two playbooks in the NFL are identical, regardless of coaches backgrounds.
An offense has to be built around the personnel, especially the quarterback, and not the other way around.
I don't care what the base system or teminology is called, our offense next year has to be built around Colt's strengths.
McCoy is a career backup QB.As evident the last 3 to 4 games.Passing 5 to 10 yards to a TE and RB won't win many games.He has been unable to pass down field in December and January.Lets not forget how great Brian Sipe was,yet he never won a playoff game.
McCoy is a career backup QB.As evident the last 3 to 4 games.Passing 5 to 10 yards to a TE and RB won't win many games.He has been unable to pass down field in December and January.Lets not forget how great Brian Sipe was,yet he never won a playoff game.
And this is why your sitting at a computer rathen then coaching in the NFL. This is his first year and he hasn't even played a full season yet but your willing to toss him to the wolves already?
What's funny is he didnt even play 4 games ago but yet you say he's a back up qb cause of his performance the last 4 games.
Not to mention the fact his ankle was sprained and he had the flu.
Why do I get the feeling your a troll pretending to be a Browns fan?
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