The Little Girl Killed in Arizona: Your Fault. and Mine

shepwrite

By the way, I'll go back to not talking politics. I don't hate Republicans at all -- both of my brother in laws (one just died last year) are GOPers and I love them both like crazy. Several of my best friends here in 50/50 Ventura County are conservative leaning, although more Indie.

I don't even hate Palin. I just think she's dangerous. I'll bow out.

lodilobo

@westside-steve said:

Uh, this is a political discussion page.

Nobody's accused Colt McCoy of the crime

WSS

My error....how I got on the political discussion page, is a mystery. Sorry.....but as long as I'm here...Sarah Palin sucks!

calfoxwc

Shep - what you did, was to take the political opportunity to lambast Palin, on the back of

a hideous murder and crime. She should stay home and keep quiet because she's dangerous.... ????????????

Because she isn't like you, and speaks her mind, and knows what she's talking about, moreso now by far since

she was thrust into the national liimelight?

The truth is, that this dishonest sheriff was a Democrat. And the mother of the insane murderer

worked for the county he was in. And he influenced people who complained about her son to

back off and leave him alone. Because his mother worked for the county. What I don't know,

is if the mayor was a Dem - I suppose so.

Dems flock together like a bunch of dangerous, aggressive buzzards.

The sheriff is to blame here. He played politics with the issue of this really insane murderer and his mom.

and really, with most all the folks in his county. The left has pushed the "discourse" way, way, way over the edge

of sincerity and decency. And now, like the old Soviet Union, you libs fabricate lies against Palin and Republicans and the tea

partiers,, totally 100 percent unsubstantiated, out of spite and hate over losing the last midterm election.

Hey, really, Shep. Do you blame Sarah Palin and the tea partiers for the Manson murders? Think about it before

you go off the deep end, and emote stuff you really don't mean.

heckofajobbrownie

Sarah Palin is not to blame for this. Putting the crosshairs on people's districts is a dumb idea, but it had nothing to do with this. She has nothing to do with this. Neither do metaphors.

But if anyone can name me a mainstream Democratic or liberal politician or staffer who suggested that we use violence against our political enemies as a means to achieve political objectives or in the event an election doesn't go our way, I'm all ears.

(Jeopardy theme music....)

And if you think that list of Obama lines is a counterpoint to what something like what Sharron Angle said, you've got to be kidding. It just proves that you've got nothing, and you're really, really stretching.

Westside Steve

@heckofajobbrownie said:
Sarah Palin is not to blame for this. Putting the crosshairs on people's districts is a dumb idea, but it had nothing to do with this. She has nothing to do with this. Neither do metaphors.
But if anyone can name me a mainstream Democratic or liberal politician or staffer who suggested that we use violence against our political enemies as a means to achieve political objectives or in the event an election doesn't go our way, I'm all ears.

(Jeopardy theme music....)

And if you think that list of Obama lines is a counterpoint to what something like what Sharron Angle said, you've got to be kidding. It just proves that you've got nothing, and you're really, really stretching.

I can't think of any mainstream politician on either side who has saod anything like that.

The presidents revolutionary pals and advisors aren't "mainstream" are they?

WSS

heckofajobbrownie

Well, check the other thread.

Westside Steve

BTW this is as ridiculous as the bullshit from Krugman abnd the left.

WSS

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qi...10115444AAhCrIE

heckofajobbrownie

@westside-steve said:
BTW this is as ridiculous as the bullshit from Krugman abnd the left.
WSS

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qi...10115444AAhCrIE

But that's just some clown on Yahoo. Might as well be on this board.

You can find plenty of examples of Republican politicians actually suggesting political violence, and within the last year. I'd like to see you defend those.

Westside Steve

@heckofajobbrownie said:
But that's just some clown on Yahoo. Might as well be on this board.
You can find plenty of examples of Republican politicians actually suggesting political violence, and within the last year. I'd like to see you defend those.

Post some.

More "serious" than Obama reaching out to the lunatic by paraphrasing a racist line from a movie.

And try to keep a straight face as you accuse whoever it is of sedition or assisting in murder.

I'm sure Media Matters and Bernie Goldberg have lists.

WSS

heckofajobbrownie

I did.

And Obama reaching out to the lunatic? What are you talking about? And why do I suspect that this is you mischaracterizing something he said, then twisting it, then saying it proves something?

heckofajobbrownie

Here's a good post from Kevin Drum:

From George Packer, who notes (correctly) that he called out the left for its ugly rhetoric in the runup to the Iraq War, on where today's ugly rhetoric mostly comes from:

"In fact, there is no balance—none whatsoever. Only one side has made the rhetoric of armed revolt against an oppressive tyranny the guiding spirit of its grassroots movement and its midterm campaign. Only one side routinely invokes the Second Amendment as a form of swagger and intimidation, not-so-coyly conflating rights with threats. Only one side’s activists bring guns to democratic political gatherings. Only one side has a popular national TV host who uses his platform to indoctrinate viewers in the conviction that the President is an alien, totalitarian menace to the country. Only one side fills the AM waves with rage and incendiary falsehoods. Only one side has an iconic leader, with a devoted grassroots following, who can’t stop using violent imagery and dividing her countrymen into us and them, real and fake. Any sentient American knows which side that is; to argue otherwise is disingenuous."

This is too obviously true to need much defense. I don't really blame conservatives for being upset at liberals trying pin the blame for the Giffords shooting on them, but the furious defensiveness of their counterattack says all that needs to be said about how uncomfortable they are with their own recent history. The big difference between right and left, as I and others have noted repeatedly, isn't just in the amount of violent rhetoric, but its source. On the liberal side, it only occasionally comes from movement leaders. On the right, it regularly does. It comes from opinion leaders, political leaders, and media leaders, and the more heated they get, the more popular they get. As David Corn says, "Republicans have institutionalized their side's craziness." This is the big difference between the two sides, and the right could really stand to engage in a wee bit of soul searching over this.

shepwrite

Oh, I mean it... and I'm right: Sarah Palin is inciting people who are already batshit crazy in the name of xenophobia and racism disguised as "old time values." The right wing of the right wing has been doing that for decades (as taught by Lee Atwater), doing what's right by the rich and big business by hoodwinking "the common man" into voting against gays, minorities, and any other paper tiger issue they can dream up.

But now it's getting into dangerous, incendiary rhetoric. Palin just needed a core and she found it in the Tea Party that most of the GOP hates. It's WAY too right wing to ever touch the invaluable "middle," where most of America actually dwells. The fringes just yell louder.

@calfoxwc said:
Shep - what you did, was to take the political opportunity to lambast Palin, on the back of
a hideous murder and crime. She should stay home and keep quiet because she's dangerous.... ????????????

Because she isn't like you, and speaks her mind, and knows what she's talking about, moreso now by far since

she was thrust into the national liimelight?

The truth is, that this dishonest sheriff was a Democrat. And the mother of the insane murderer

worked for the county he was in. And he influenced people who complained about her son to

back off and leave him alone. Because his mother worked for the county. What I don't know,

is if the mayor was a Dem - I suppose so.

Dems flock together like a bunch of dangerous, aggressive buzzards.

The sheriff is to blame here. He played politics with the issue of this really insane murderer and his mom.

and really, with most all the folks in his county. The left has pushed the "discourse" way, way, way over the edge

of sincerity and decency. And now, like the old Soviet Union, you libs fabricate lies against Palin and Republicans and the tea

partiers,, totally 100 percent unsubstantiated, out of spite and hate over losing the last midterm election.

Hey, really, Shep. Do you blame Sarah Palin and the tea partiers for the Manson murders? Think about it before

you go off the deep end, and emote stuff you really don't mean.

shepwrite

Any thinking Republican has to be concerned about this because it's undeniable fact. With a lot of talk about "wooing the middle" and how Obama's approval rating is edging up as he edges to the center, the GOP is rightfully concerned about being too closely affiliated with the Tea Party-NRA-Social Right-Sarah Palin coalition, which is scaring the shit out of 90 percent of America.

@heckofajobbrownie said:
Here's a good post from Kevin Drum:
From George Packer, who notes (correctly) that he called out the left for its ugly rhetoric in the runup to the Iraq War, on where today's ugly rhetoric mostly comes from:

"In fact, there is no balance—none whatsoever. Only one side has made the rhetoric of armed revolt against an oppressive tyranny the guiding spirit of its grassroots movement and its midterm campaign. Only one side routinely invokes the Second Amendment as a form of swagger and intimidation, not-so-coyly conflating rights with threats. Only one side’s activists bring guns to democratic political gatherings. Only one side has a popular national TV host who uses his platform to indoctrinate viewers in the conviction that the President is an alien, totalitarian menace to the country. Only one side fills the AM waves with rage and incendiary falsehoods. Only one side has an iconic leader, with a devoted grassroots following, who can’t stop using violent imagery and dividing her countrymen into us and them, real and fake. Any sentient American knows which side that is; to argue otherwise is disingenuous."

This is too obviously true to need much defense. I don't really blame conservatives for being upset at liberals trying pin the blame for the Giffords shooting on them, but the furious defensiveness of their counterattack says all that needs to be said about how uncomfortable they are with their own recent history. The big difference between right and left, as I and others have noted repeatedly, isn't just in the amount of violent rhetoric, but its source. On the liberal side, it only occasionally comes from movement leaders. On the right, it regularly does. It comes from opinion leaders, political leaders, and media leaders, and the more heated they get, the more popular they get. As David Corn says, "Republicans have institutionalized their side's craziness." This is the big difference between the two sides, and the right could really stand to engage in a wee bit of soul searching over this.

heckofajobbrownie

Or this might tell you something. Here's one Senator after the shooting:

"There is a need for some reflection here -- what is too far now? What was too far when Oklahoma City happened is accepted now. There's been a desensitizing. These town halls and cable TV and talk radio, everybody's trying to outdo each other."

Now, this was said by a Republican Senator. But he'd only give the quote anonymously. Why do you think that is?

Of course, Steve, we don't have to go too far to find some really cranktastic and ill-informed and over-the-top rhetoric from the right, do we? We get to soak in it every day in here.

How much of the Republican base is made up of those people? It's not a small number, is it?

shepwrite

@heckofajobbrownie said:
Or this might tell you something. Here's one Senator after the shooting:
"There is a need for some reflection here -- what is too far now? What was too far when Oklahoma City happened is accepted now. There's been a desensitizing. These town halls and cable TV and talk radio, everybody's trying to outdo each other."

Now, this was said by a Republican Senator. But he'd only give the quote anonymously. Why do you think that is?

Of course, Steve, we don't have to go too far to find some really cranktastic and ill-informed and over-the-top rhetoric from the right, do we? We get to soak in it every day in here.

How much of the Republican base is made up of those people? It's not a small number, is it?

Honestly, I was hoping a serious Republican would go ON the record and say it's time to disengage from the town hall pitchfork bullshit and hate peddlers like Rush and Beck and Palin, and govern an entire country, not one party or the other. But saying it off the record does give me some hope.

I just feel like moderate Republicans and Democrats make up like 75% of the nation's adults. That's what I observe anecdotally (in the real world, not on talk radio or cable news)... and that gives me hope, too.

calfoxwc

My gosh. The truth is,

92% of the American people don't want to

live in a socialist state, and they don't want to lose

their CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS. Millions of Americans who are not

conservative much, even more liberal... voted for Republicans the last midterm election.

I told you it would happen. Americans will always set the ship's course back to being correct.

You libs wanted to make sure nobody jumped to conclusions about Muslims

when that Major Hassan went on a rampage.

But, now, you are all too delighted to diss all Tea Partiers, all Republicans, and all gun-owners,

and all conservatives by saying it's their fault.

There is absolute no evidence that this nutjob was "influenced" to go violently berserk, by conservatives,

than there is to blame the women on the "View" for Reagan's attempted assasination, or for

John Lennon's death.

But I do think, that the Manson murders were committed because you libs disagree with my politics...

and I think you need to tone it down before any more Manson murders occur.

Gosh, I don't have any kind of evidence or reason to think that, but that's what I feel"

That's just an analogy to you lib goofballs.

calfoxwc

This holier than thou crap is so full of bs, it's amazing how that much bs can be in anything, well, maybe

cept the Grand Canyon, or the crater at Mt. Haleakula in Hawaii...

Care to defend THIS one, Heck or Shep?

************************************

Ex-Rep. Paul Kanjorski, D-Pa, today:

"We all lose an element of freedom when security considerations distance public officials from the people. Therefore, it is incumbent on all Americans to create an atmosphere of civility and respect in which political discourse can flow freely, without fear of violent confrontation."

according to the Scranton Times, Kanjorski said this about Florida's new Republican Governor Rick Scott on October 23:

"That Scott down there that's running for governor of Florida," Mr. Kanjorski said. "Instead of running for governor of Florida, they ought to have him and shoot him. Put him against the wall and shoot him...