Baltimore-Pittsburgh

[The Gipper]

The Soldier said:

Listen, I undertand you are basing your argument on "legal" definitions. My argument is based in reality. You can word it any way it makes you feel better.

If you are stopped for driving 75mph in a 35 mph, and the police decide not to give you a ticket, we were still speeding. You can argue you wern't speeding because you didn't recieve a ticket, but the reality is that you were speeding.

I can see what your point is. I just happen not to buy into it.

Your view that the NFL decided to add a team to Baltimore (that contained the Browns players) and remove a team from Cleveland for a while.

I believe that the Browns owner moved his team to Baltimore, and the NFL re-worded everything to revise what happend to appease fans.

No need for name calling.

I won't call you names if you will stop being ignorant and accept the truth. My version of things is the version accepted by the following:

a. The National Football League

b. The Baltimore Ravens

c. The Cleveland Browns

d. The United States Federal Court system

e. The Ohio Court systems

f. Art Modell and his successors in interest

g. Al Lerner/Randy Lerner

Let's see who you have to back you up? Gomer Pyle?

[WRREBEL]

wow I can't beleive ravens and steelers fans have nothing else to do..

they are dumb

[The Gipper]

Formerly Stone said:

He sure can spin things can't he?

The easiest thing a lawyer can do is to recite simple, truthful facts and to cite reliable authority. In this case, it was easy.

The simple truthful facts are as I have related them, and the authorities behind my position have been listed in my prior post.

I wish every case I had was this easy.

[The Gipper]

@hoorta said:

Sorry Stone Gipper isn't inventing anything. He's 100% correct. Players that used to be Browns moved to Baltimore.

There's really no sense in arguing with misguided ill-informed morons that want to debate the facts 15 years later. WE know what the truth of the matter is- and it seems that there's even a few Browns fans that have forgotten what happened. Personally we no longer care what you think about the situation.

As to the Browns bad luck lately, you see there's been an alien spacecraft hovering over Lake Erie emitting Zeta Beams at the Browns facility in Berea which has resulted in brain atrophy and stupification of all ownership and management for the last 45 years. They also target Browns #1 draft choices with Xi mesons which in most cases almost immediately degrades their ability to play football.

Here is a simple statement from Black's Legal Dictionary regarding assignments:

•Assignment of contract

The unconditional transfer of all rights contained in a contract from the owner to another person or entity.

•Assignee

A person to whom a property right is transferred. The assignee takes control of the property and assumes all the legal rights and responsibilities of the contract....

This is how Cleveland Browns players who were under contract with the team at that time became Baltimore Ravens players. This happens in business every day and is accomplished by a simple 1 page memorandum signed by the assignor and the assignee.

[The Gipper]

Formerly Stone said:

Hoorta.....this is downright comical!

1. There are people who "KNOW" that the Holocaust didn't happen, does that make it so?

2. Bad luck?......Bad luck? That's like saying it gets cold here in the winter because of bad luck!

I give Browns fans credit for fighting for what they lost, they simply couldn't accept not having football here, that's awesome! But that's where the feel good story ends, your team moved away, you were simply given the rights to maintain the former, name, colors, and records with an expansion team.

The franchise stayed here which included all of the matters you stated above.

What do you think Bill Futterer was futtering around with for those 3 years?

He was managing an NFL franchise that simply didn't have active status.

Were expansion-like elements used in restocking the team with talent?

Yes, that was the best way to do it once it was determined that no other NFL team would be contracted in order to "resupply" the Cleveland Browns.

Recall that there was a serious possibility of that happening. Recall that 3-4 new stadiums were built in NFL cities to avoid having those franchises contracted and having all their assets transferred and assigned to the Cleveland Browns.

I recall that the Bengals were one of those under possible consideration to be deleted. The Buccaneers were another.

I believe that actually about 10 new stadiums were built as a result of the Browns situation...including the Steelers stadium.

[calfoxwc]

I can't imagine being so pitiful, that Browns fans would have to go to a ratbird or squeeler board, to get attention for themselves,

and be stupid but still not getting kicked off.

How DOES that work with ratbird and squeeler fans? Really.

[djdawg2010]

Formerly Stone said:

Your correct to a degree, and maybe it's because the Browns haven't really had players worth rooting for. I do root for the team first and always but when you have outstanding players on your team?....I root for them to. I can agree with that. To a degree. But no player on the team is bigger than the uniform or the city it represents. I like Josh Cribbs, but it's not the Josh Cribbs Browns, it's the Cleveland Browns

Question, you say you root for the colors?, the jersey? What if the Browns hadn't been given an expansion team and kept the colors? What if the everything went with them to Baltimore? Would you still root for the colors? Nope. Because they would no longer be the Cleveland Browns. They would be the Baltimore Browns.

As far as a player representing city, state, region, etc......not so much! They represent the team that is overpaying them.....period! Agree 100%! It' a business. That is why I root for the team and the city attached to the team over all else.

The team that represented Cleveland packed up and moved to Baltimore, lock, stock, and barrel. The city of Cleveland was awarded an expansion along with the rights to the colors, name, and records. It's really very cut and dried.

Yes they did. But in the end, the Browns are the Browns, and the Ravens are the Ravens. The Ravens are building their own legacy and own identity.

My 2 cents.

[calfoxwc]

Yes, you certainly need to grow a lot. Is that why they kicked you out of the squeeler boards?

[WRREBEL]

y

Formerly Stone said:

PC or not Retards are fun to play with and you are the king of them!

You want to compare brain pans with me? I won the westinhouse prize when I was 12, big deal. I was published when I was 19, so what. I got a double doctorate at mit when I was 22, chemistry and geology.

[longhorn]

I am "financially secure" and never went to college. I've had a fulltime job since I was 14 and worked hard for all I got. I hire college graduates to do the things I hate doing. I'm older than most of you, but what's wrong with acting 12 once in a while? If these Steeler and Ratbird weasels weren't here we'd all be bored. They're the stupid ones, entertaining us for F-R-E-E and solidifying all of us Browns fans to continue to hate all things Pittsburgh and Baltimore. They are kind of performing a community service like a lot of troubled teens have to do. Keep it coming you trolling puzzy boys.

[hoorta]

Formerly Stone said:

Hoorta.....this is downright comical!

1. There are people who "KNOW" that the Holocaust didn't happen, does that make it so?

2. Bad luck?......Bad luck? That's like saying it gets cold here in the winter because of bad luck!

I give Browns fans credit for fighting for what they lost, they simply couldn't accept not having football here, that's awesome! But that's where the feel good story ends, your team moved away, you were simply given the rights to maintain the former, name, colors, and records with an expansion team.

I'll grant you that- as long as you're willing to admit the Baltimore Ravens are an expansion FRANCHISE. And if you don't believe me, go look it up in the HOF history section.

The Browns FRANCHISE is the same one that started play in 1946. Can't you guys understand this simple concept? McDonalds in Downtown Cleveland. The owner moves his employees to Baltimore to a new McDonald's he's building, MickeyD grants him new franchise rights in Baltimore. Cleveland building is empty for there years. Meantime, McDonald's corporation has retained the rights to the Cleveland Building and Franchise (granted in 1946 I may add), and hires (mostly) new employees and finds a new owner three years later. Got it? That's not fantasy Stone- that's what really happened.

We can't help it if there was tons of misinformed media spewing their "take" on the situation.

[The Gipper]

Formerly Stone said:

Then why are they all such lying scsumbags?

They are not, its just that you think so because it is there job to advocate their client's point of view which may be different from your point of view. It is clear that you have issues with persons who have a different point of view than you do.

Because they disagree with you, you, ergo, assume they are lying, when in fact it is highly probable that they are correct and it is you who are wrong. You just won't admit it.

We have a word for people like you: Wives.

[longhorn]

Formerly Stone said:

Wow.....you really believe that BS don't you?

Lawyers live in a perpetual fraternity that becomes more important than right and wrong, even when the fraternity is flawed and leads to injustice. Ambulance chaser to the highest judge the ones who remain in the fraternity don't give a rats ass about justice, just their little fraternity which doles out it's own justice.

I love a good discussion and difference of opinion but the other party has to have some scruples to make it worth the time.

...and you got YOUR scruples from where?......

[Captain Cheesedick]

When you have to rely on legal definitions and legal double talk, you know you are splitting hairs.

The poor guy who just got released from prison for a murder he never committed has now been proven innocent. He was NEVER a murderer. At one time the legal system labled him a murder. He was convicted of murder. But he never murdered anyone.

That is reality.

Now, conversely, in reality, he can never say he was never convicted of murder. He was. Everyone can go back and remove the conviction, and reword everything, but he was still convicted of murder.

The Browns moved to Baltimore. (I'm still a Browns fan) After this happened, the NFL made the necessary legal adjustments to say that is not what happened. But, it happened.

[longhorn]

Formerly Stone said:

From a lifetime of working to understand right from wrong and striving to do what's right.....THANKS FOR REMINDING ME!

So your comments on this board all stem from your desire to do what's right? Is that right in your mind or right according to the general good of this message board?

[kshutchins]

@the-gipper said:

We have a word for people like you: Wives

.

Tsk Tsk. And wives would say "husbands?"

[Speedyd900rr]

Formerly Stone said:

Right in my mind, this board is simply a source of entertainment. Face it, most of the Browns posters here are delusional, bitter, jealous, and down right pissed off at the rest of the football world when in fact it's the Cleveland Browns who make you that way!

You ever stop to think that maybe some fans here are bitter because you and your troll friends only come here to say nah nah were better then you are all the time?

Typical troll bs. You come here and tell all of us we suck and then say were bitter because we told you to fuk off AFTER you ran your mouth.

If anyone is delusional or jealous I would put my money down on you because of all the time you devoted to trying to make other people feel like shyt. For some reason you're not happy with your life so you spend all your time trying to make less fortunate people feel like crap because it gives you that ego boost you so desperatly seek.

Reality is in real life you have no power because your a loser so coming here and fuking with us makes you feel like a god.

[djdawg2010]

@speedyd900rr said:

You ever stop to think that maybe some fans here are bitter because you and your troll friends only come here to say nah nah were better then you are all the time?

Typical troll bs. You come here and tell all of us we suck and then say were bitter because we told you to fuk off AFTER you ran your mouth.

If anyone is delusional or jealous I would put my money down on you because of all the time you devoted to trying to make other people feel like shyt. For some reason you're not happy with your life so you spend all your time trying to make less fortunate people feel like crap because it gives you that ego boost you so desperatly seek.

Reality is in real life you have no power because your a loser so coming here and fuking with us makes you feel like a god.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

THIS!

[longhorn]

Formerly Stone said:

Right in my mind, this board is simply a source of entertainment. Face it, most of the Browns posters here are delusional, bitter, jealous, and down right pissed off at the rest of the football world when in fact it's the Cleveland Browns who make you that way!

Couple this with a complete lack of leadership by the owner and mods here who either jump in to the childish idiotic stuff that flies here, or they start it! They certainly don't discourage it! They just ban Steeler fans who try to present logic and throw in a little comedy with it!

Every other web forum I have ever been on, the mods and owners try to curtail the childish BS, here they not only condone it, they perpetuate it. Why do you think that the majority of the posts here are about Steelers or Steeler fans? They attempt to limit that majority by banning Steeler fans instead of telling the children here to STFU!

I'm glad you understand the difference. It's also good to see you are so easily entertained. Imagine what fun you could have with a ball of twine!!!!

Perhaps "the owner" desires to have a forum that is not run like a gestapo organization and exudes leadership by allowing people such as yourself the ability to continue posting. Personally, I enjoy the humor in many of these posts. I am also glad to see that you correctly classify your posts as "childish BS". I find it difficult to believe that many Steelers fans have been banned, given all the pro-Steeler comments I see.

Keep those comments coming. You've obviously found a home where you can feel good about yourself.

[Gafreleets]

Formerly Stone said:

Right in my mind, this board is simply a source of entertainment. Face it, most of the Browns posters here are delusional, bitter, jealous, and down right pissed off at the rest of the football world when in fact it's the Cleveland Browns who make you that way!

AMEN!!!

the best part is the "haterism" that is practiced here. you guys just can't stand the fact that compared to the Steelers, the browns look like a 1983 omni sitting next to a brand new mustang.

just being in the same division as us spotlights how abysmal your team is and just how short it's falling of being competetive.

@speedyd900rr said:

You ever stop to think that maybe some fans here are bitter because you and your troll friends only come here to say nah nah were better then you are all the time?

Typical troll bs. You come here and tell all of us we suck and then say were bitter because we told you to fuk off AFTER you ran your mouth.

.

it's not bs. it's the simple, hard to deal with (if you're a browns fan), truth.

your team sucks.

your team has sucked for the past 40+ years.

your team looks like it's going to continue sucking for the forseeable future.

and that sucks as a fan.

and if you're so bitter with us "coming in to say nah, nah, your team sucks", then have a team that dosen't suck.

cancel your season tickets (trust me, your safe to get them back....there's no waiting list like the 26yr one the Steelers have)

stop buying merchandise.

let your owners know that the fanbase isn't going to take being a bottom dweller anymore.

and don't give me any garbage about how "then you'll make fun of us because our merchandise sales are low".......no we won't. most Steeler fans would just be impressed that the brown fans aren't standing for a sub-par franchise anymore.