Thank you, Pat Shurmur. I'm now a big fan !!!!
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Thank GOD for Pat Shurmur now. We now have a new coach who says that the offensive line is the most important part of the offense, what I've been saying, is the "engine" is the offense. YAY !
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From Rotoworld:
"Newly Browns head coach Pat Shurmur rated offensive line as the most important part of the offense.
Shurmur was a center during his playing days at Michigan State. Cleveland's 2011 pass blocking graded out above average, though the team has work to do to improve its run blocking. Look for the Browns to focus on rebuilding the right side of their offensive unit in both the draft and free agency. RG Floyd Womack and RT John St. Clair graded out as two of the league's worst starters."
Thank GOD for Pat Shurmur now. We now have a new coach who says that the offensive line is the most important part of the offense, what I've been saying, is the "engine" is the offense. YAY !
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From Rotoworld:
"Newly Browns head coach Pat Shurmur rated offensive line as the most important part of the offense.
Shurmur was a center during his playing days at Michigan State. Cleveland's 2011 pass blocking graded out above average, though the team has work to do to improve its run blocking. Look for the Browns to focus on rebuilding the right side of their offensive unit in both the draft and free agency. RG Floyd Womack and RT John St. Clair graded out as two of the league's worst starters."
Are you implying that the previous coach didn't value the offensive line? He used his first ever pick on Alex Mack.
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I am just hoping he is not afraid to have a few talented guys on the team even if they have big ego's. A good coach can deal with these types of players and can get them to play team ball. If you want talent your going to have to put up with some things you don't like. Mangini would just get rid them instead of trying to figure out how to work with them. Although I think he did the right thing in getting rid of the players he did. He had to create a core team who bought in to his system. I just don't think he was willing to bring in that type of player after laying the base.
If you don't have a problem with the guys that he got rid of then how can you criticize him? He figured out how to work with Big Baby, didn't he? I think the whole "cater to the ego" is a crock of bull. It starts with character. You can bring in those super talented-loud mouths at the end to sprinkle on top of a strong locker room. The Browns didn't have that when he arrived.
He figured out how to work with Big Baby, didn't he?
I am a Mangini guy, even though I think he had to go. But worked what with Big Baby? Are you referring to the inability to unload his contract while he was hurt? Or are you talking about how for 2 quarters in all of 2010 he got some work out of Rogers? For all his good traits, Mangini didn't work well with others if they had talent.
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I was intially a big RAC fan and then i was initially a big, big mangini fan before accepting the fact this guy had nothing to offer but one year of good disciplinary foundation building and not much else..
So while im a little optimistic about shurmur because i am a holmgren/heckert fan the shurmurnator needs to show me he can deliver the goods before i give him the money..
And i dont mean that as in like coach has to win games winning is ultimate but i mean that in the sense of seeing certain things going on win or lose that would convince me to believe in the man and his program...
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Are you implying that the previous coach didn't value the offensive line? He used his first ever pick on Alex Mack. Earl
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No, no, no. Mangini is the guy who brought in Mangold and a LT with two first round picks for the Jets oline his first draft.
It figured he'd nab Mack, and Mack has not disappointed, he's been terrific.
But now, I was concerned a new coach would NOT see it that way. How freakin long have we had coaches who ignored the oline?
It's been a disgrace. I thank Mangini for helping our oline, but the job isn't done yet. Shurmur will finish the job !
It's silly to say that olinemen are a dime a dozen. Look how many are getting drafted in the first round anymore.
Guys who can play RT aren't that easy to find - the Browns haven't found one in a decade. Teams can now avoid Joe Thomas,
and jog backwards and get close to our qb's right now. I think my mock third round pick is the Browns' pick.He could even back up Thomas.
If he's even there in the third...
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We will see i mean the Offensive line is a big concern but so is everything else on the field, i mean look how shitty Pittsburgh offensive line is and there in AFC Championship game...Big Gay Ben is always on his back but yet they still made it by having skilled players at other positions to bail them out...So yes O-Line is very important as well as every position in the NFL
We will see i mean the Offensive line is a big concern but so is everything else on the field, i mean look how shitty Pittsburgh offensive line is and there in AFC Championship game...Big Gay Ben is always on his back but yet they still made it by having skilled players at other positions to bail them out...So yes O-Line is very important as well as every position in the NFL
In their last game almost all of there scoring drives were aided by turnovers and yellow flags. did they have to move the ball more than 25 yards?
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No - Lauvao is pretty much an OG in the pros. He's getting there. But he isn't an OT.
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http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2010/4/10/1...-draft-scouting
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No - Lauvao is pretty much an OG in the pros. He's getting there. But he isn't an OT.
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http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2010/4/10/1...-draft-scouting
No - Lauvao is pretty much an OG in the pros. He's getting there. But he isn't an OT.
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http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2010/4/10/1...-draft-scouting
I stand corrected. Your right, OG.
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Yeah im looking foward to seeing what Luvao is capable of after a full season, and Mack,Thomas and Steiny are all good at there positons if not Mack and Thomas Pro ball cailber...I have us taking a RT in the 3rd round as well....
Yeah i watched that game they were many flags thrown but im saying his o-line is trash and if we get a decent pass rush before they can fix it, id love to be the one to break big gay bens nose...Seymour is out there anyone interseted???
And one of the biggest mistakes we ever made was letting Ozzie Newsome and Baltimore swap picks with us so they could grab Ngata that is a killer he is a beast and could have been a Brown
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I said it frequently in the "Anatomy of A Play" but Steinbach is terribly overrated. He is a WEAK link on this offensive line playing arguably the easiest of the three interior line positions. He pulls well but gets easily overpowered, doesn't play with good leverage and quite honestly he gets knocked off his feet way too much.
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I said it frequently in the "Anatomy of A Play" but Steinbach is terribly overrated. He is a WEAK link on this offensive line playing arguably the easiest of the three interior line positions. He pulls well but gets easily overpowered, doesn't play with good leverage and quite honestly he gets knocked off his feet way too much.
I said it frequently in the "Anatomy of A Play" but Steinbach is terribly overrated. He is a WEAK link on this offensive line playing arguably the easiest of the three interior line positions. He pulls well but gets easily overpowered, doesn't play with good leverage and quite honestly he gets knocked off his feet way too much.
I agree.
On this team, only Cribbs and TJ Ward earn more unwarranted praise.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Yeah, the OL is important, but there are 1000 guys who can play the positions.Then why don't we get a few more of them??
Really man, that rant sounded goofy.....a bit unexpected I will admit.
Actually, I think you have it backwards. Backs and receivers are a dime a dozen. Give them a solid QB and a solid line and average all of a sudden looks much better.
Then why don't we get a few more of them??
Really man, that rant sounded goofy.....a bit unexpected I will admit.
Actually, I think you have it backwards. Backs and receivers are a dime a dozen. Give them a solid QB and a solid line and average all of a sudden looks much better.
Shit, the patriots have been doing it for years
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I am just hoping he is not afraid to have a few talented guys on the team even if they have big ego's. A good coach can deal with these types of players and can get them to play team ball. If you want talent your going to have to put up with some things you don't like. Mangini would just get rid them instead of trying to figure out how to work with them. Although I think he did the right thing in getting rid of the players he did. He had to create a core team who bought in to his system. I just don't think he was willing to bring in that type of player after laying the base.
If you don't have a problem with the guys that he got rid of then how can you criticize him? He figured out how to work with Big Baby, didn't he? I think the whole "cater to the ego" is a crock of bull. It starts with character. You can bring in those super talented-loud mouths at the end to sprinkle on top of a strong locker room. The Browns didn't have that when he arrived.
If you don't have a problem with the guys that he got rid of then how can you criticize him? He figured out how to work with Big Baby, didn't he? I think the whole "cater to the ego" is a crock of bull. It starts with character. You can bring in those super talented-loud mouths at the end to sprinkle on top of a strong locker room. The Browns didn't have that when he arrived.
I was kind of hoping they would have kept Mangini. I know he had to get a solid locker room in place and had to get rid of those guys. Once you get a solid locker room you should be able to bring in a couple of guys with some talent and a little attitude without them tearing apart the team. I just think he was not willing to work with those kind of players at all.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Nobody ever said it wasn't important. It's just not where you spend the bulk of your money. The line as a unit, is important. But offensive linemen are a dime-a-dozen.This bullcrap about what is most important is fodder for idiots. No football team can with without competency at all positions.
No OL is going to make pinpoint passes, great catches and break away runs.
Shurmur was passifying the fools in Brownstown who actually believe OL are talented athletes.
Yeah, the OL is important, but there are 1000 guys who can play the positions.
what else do you know about football?
the most important is always the offensive line. without them you cant give protection to your QB and you cant open up holes for your running backs. its the only group that is responsible for the success of both passing and running the ball. not to mention they are also key parts of special teams both in punting and field goals
while skill players may only touch the ball once a series, offensive linemen have to do their job better every single play because they are going up against the biggest nastiest dudes on the other side of the ball.
saying offensive linemen are a dime a dozen proves to me how little you actually know about the sport. i guarantee you could run a route and catch a pass....i guarantee you could throw a ball or tuck it away and run for a few yards......but id guarantee you that you couldnt protect someone for 3 seconds while another guy was trying to get after him
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I said it frequently in the "Anatomy of A Play" but Steinbach is terribly overrated. He is a WEAK link on this offensive line playing arguably the easiest of the three interior line positions. He pulls well but gets easily overpowered, doesn't play with good leverage and quite honestly he gets knocked off his feet way too much.
I said it frequently in the "Anatomy of A Play" but Steinbach is terribly overrated. He is a WEAK link on this offensive line playing arguably the easiest of the three interior line positions. He pulls well but gets easily overpowered, doesn't play with good leverage and quite honestly he gets knocked off his feet way too much.
steinbach isnt the "weak link" but he is overrated
hes upgradeable but next to mack and thomas, he fits in nicely with what the browns are trying to do. in pass protection he is usually fine but i have seen him get blown up quite a few times while trying to pull or turn his seat and open a hole......im not so sure hes as strong or as light on his feet as people make him out to be
the right side of the line should be addressed long before steinbach's name ever gets mentioned IMO
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
The Steelers and Patriots BOTH won multiple superbowls with a major percentage of thier starting offensive linemen injured.Again, I am not saying that OL is not an important unit, What I am saying is that the physical difference between one big fat ass and the next is negligible. Playing tightly as a unit, knowing the plays and being disciplined is what makes an OL great.
Also, having high impact playmakers makes an OL play easier and more effectively.
Our line might need a guy or two, but it is good enough to hold court with anyone, IF we had skilled players.
That's just how it is.
The Patriots and Steelers won Super Bowls with O-line hurt because they had superior depth at those positions. The Steelers draft o-line virtually every year. The Browns don't have that luxury- and it's "the chain is only as strong as the weakest link". And regarding the Browns, St Clair was mighty weak- turnstile to be exact. Had McCoy running for his life plenty of times- I do hope you know Defensive coordinators pick up on that sort of stuff fast, and all things being equal will follow the path of least resistance- and St Clair put up about none.
I'm not arguing you don't need skill players- damn I'd love to have Larry Fitzgerald or Roddy White instead of the crap the Browns were playing at wide receiver. But I'd posit the talent gulf between the elite skill players and bums (say Fitzgerald and Robiski) is every bit as big between the elite O- linemen (like say Thomas and St Clair). You just don't notice it- because VERY few fans pay big attention to O-line play- and even fewer know more than jack shit and actually pay attention to the finer details like footwork and technique. UNLESS someone majorly screws up and gets a quarterback killed. OTOH, the position coaches do look at that stuff, and grade guys out on EVERY play. There's way more to playing o-line in the pros than just being a fat tub of lard and getting in someone's way.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
No, really, I am dead on. Look, from the time a kid first tries out for pee pee football. If he can't pass, catch, run fast, tackle, or kick, as a last resort, he gets sent to the offensive line. THE OL have the least athletically talented players.ur dumb. now im convinced of this. in peewees there are lots of kids that can catch, run and throw that play offensive line. not only that, but they are usually the biggest and strongest kids on the team.....why? because they have to block for the wussies who arent willing to block.
yes in peewees the skill isnt always there, but neither is the coaching. once you reach high school and on up you usually have talented coaches that specialize in certain areas of the game and are able to teach the subtle nuances of the positions. you'll also notice that those are the levels where the offensive line becomes so important because everybody can run fast and throw the ball far. but not many people can move a 300 lb man somewhere he doesnt want to go
Again, I am not saying that OL is not an important unit, What I am saying is that the physical difference between one big fat ass and the next is negligible. Playing tightly as a unit, knowing the plays and being disciplined is what makes an OL great.
lmao big fat asses cant pull around an end and kick out LBs and DEs(arguably the most athletic players on defenses). but good offensive linemen can
Simply stated, NO 5 HOF OL, could EVER black 8 Defensive players stacked up and waiting for the run. It is physically impossible. Now, when the opposing defense has to account for fast, deep threat WRs, a QB who can get rid of the ball and hit his targets, and also scramble; when they have to deal with a pounding FB and a shifty breakaway RB?
Gentlemen, you learned this in the third grade. 8 is greater than 5. Five men cannot block 8.
Our line might need a guy or two, but it is good enough to hold court with anyone, IF we had skilled players.
That's just how it is.
fwiw 5 guys block 8 all the time. any goalline run or any short yardage play.....it happens all the time. not only that, but if a running back is smart enough, 5 guys will never have to block 8. 5 guys only have to block a few guys and open up a hole where the running back can get through. no hall of fame running back, QB or WR ever blocked 8 guys either
im not exactly sure what your point is other than proving how oblivious you are to the game of football
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I said it frequently in the "Anatomy of A Play" but Steinbach is terribly overrated. He is a WEAK link on this offensive line playing arguably the easiest of the three interior line positions. He pulls well but gets easily overpowered, doesn't play with good leverage and quite honestly he gets knocked off his feet way too much.
I said it frequently in the "Anatomy of A Play" but Steinbach is terribly overrated. He is a WEAK link on this offensive line playing arguably the easiest of the three interior line positions. He pulls well but gets easily overpowered, doesn't play with good leverage and quite honestly he gets knocked off his feet way too much.
i took special note of the bolded. guards, especially guards in a run first offense, play a much bigger role than both the center and tackles. guards are responsible for everything the other linemen are while also being called on to pull, trap and get up to the second level. not only that, but most running plays go directly behind the guards
i would argue against saying guards are the easiest offensive line position to play because it really isnt. i would put center at the easiest but that is only nitpicking. i dont think its right to downplay the duties of offensive linemen
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