Lockout
-
Well when I think about Lerner, it makes me sick when this little spoiled bitch makes $1 off the Browns. I don't know much about the rest of the owners, but if 1/2 of them are like him I hope they get milked!
Well when I think about Lerner, it makes me sick when this little spoiled bitch makes $1 off the Browns. I don't know much about the rest of the owners, but if 1/2 of them are like him I hope they get milked!
I don't understand the comment???
Why shouldn't he make money??
Just because he has money???
The fact of the matter is he should make vast sums of money.
When did profit become a dirty word in this country???
It's sickening the way some of you people think.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
I for one love the way Goodell is handling this whole thing and think De Smith is a tool.
Just look at other sports where they let the players union run the league and you get 4-5 teams that run the league. We all know baseball ruined itself by giving in to the union. Sure, it's a strong union, but so was the auto-workers union. And what happened there?
In basketball they have a salary cap but have a commish that is a pussy who only cares about the few elite players in his league. They can do no wrong. That's why 5 teams have won 87% of the NBA championships over the last 30 (yes, THIRTY) years (Lakers[9] Bulls[6] Spurs[4] Celtics[4] Pistons[3]. It's ridiculously unbalanced and uncontrolled. They let players collude and choose how to finagle the system to play with their home-boyz. I won't watch a minute of it again until something is fixed. I mean, 26 out of 30 from only FIVE teams? And only three other teams won the other four (Rockets [2] Heat [1] 76ers [1]).
I like that Goodell has an iron fist. I like that he throws out suspensions that are tough. I like that he manages the league like a manager should, as a boss, not a buddy. He doesn't kiss the ass of the players. He understands his role - and he does it well. There is a great article on him in last weeks SI - good reading.
IMO, De Smith and the NFLPA are kidding themselves if they think they have a chance. Should the NFL give more for healthcare to retired players? Definitely to players retired before 1990, but hell, nowadays the money these guys make should dictate their pension. If a guy like Peyton Manning needs a pension then he severely f'd up his financial situation. I think it's too complicated to look at black and white. And if the players are so concerned for ex-players and the old-school guys, why don't they step to the plate as a union and pitch in themselves for the players that laid the ground work for them to become multi-millionaires?
I could ramble forever, but you get my point.
I could ramble forever, but you get my point.
Yes, I get your point. You sound like Governor Kasich, blame unions for all of America's ills.
While unions have their drawbacks, they are necessary. Are they necessary in major league sports, I'm not so sure.
-
Yes, I get your point. You sound like Governor Kasich, blame unions for all of America's ills.
While unions have their drawbacks, they are necessary. Are they necessary in major league sports, I'm not so sure.
Unions are around to make sure that hard working American's who make a shit to average salary are protected for some of the greedy companies they work for. I don't think millionaire sports players really need a "union" to protect them from getting super xxxxed. But at the same time you need a group there to protect them health wise (18 games a season) and to make sure that they are at least making what they deserve (making it so they are not making as much as teachers a shit like that).
Ruining threads since 1897. -
I for one love the way Goodell is handling this whole thing and think De Smith is a tool.
Just look at other sports where they let the players union run the league and you get 4-5 teams that run the league. We all know baseball ruined itself by giving in to the union. Sure, it's a strong union, but so was the auto-workers union. And what happened there?
In basketball they have a salary cap but have a commish that is a pussy who only cares about the few elite players in his league. They can do no wrong. That's why 5 teams have won 87% of the NBA championships over the last 30 (yes, THIRTY) years (Lakers[9] Bulls[6] Spurs[4] Celtics[4] Pistons[3]. It's ridiculously unbalanced and uncontrolled. They let players collude and choose how to finagle the system to play with their home-boyz. I won't watch a minute of it again until something is fixed. I mean, 26 out of 30 from only FIVE teams? And only three other teams won the other four (Rockets [2] Heat [1] 76ers [1]).
I like that Goodell has an iron fist. I like that he throws out suspensions that are tough. I like that he manages the league like a manager should, as a boss, not a buddy. He doesn't kiss the ass of the players. He understands his role - and he does it well. There is a great article on him in last weeks SI - good reading.
IMO, De Smith and the NFLPA are kidding themselves if they think they have a chance. Should the NFL give more for healthcare to retired players? Definitely to players retired before 1990, but hell, nowadays the money these guys make should dictate their pension. If a guy like Peyton Manning needs a pension then he severely f'd up his financial situation. I think it's too complicated to look at black and white. And if the players are so concerned for ex-players and the old-school guys, why don't they step to the plate as a union and pitch in themselves for the players that laid the ground work for them to become multi-millionaires?
I could ramble forever, but you get my point.
I for one love the way Goodell is handling this whole thing and think De Smith is a tool.
Just look at other sports where they let the players union run the league and you get 4-5 teams that run the league. We all know baseball ruined itself by giving in to the union. Sure, it's a strong union, but so was the auto-workers union. And what happened there?
In basketball they have a salary cap but have a commish that is a pussy who only cares about the few elite players in his league. They can do no wrong. That's why 5 teams have won 87% of the NBA championships over the last 30 (yes, THIRTY) years (Lakers[9] Bulls[6] Spurs[4] Celtics[4] Pistons[3]. It's ridiculously unbalanced and uncontrolled. They let players collude and choose how to finagle the system to play with their home-boyz. I won't watch a minute of it again until something is fixed. I mean, 26 out of 30 from only FIVE teams? And only three other teams won the other four (Rockets [2] Heat [1] 76ers [1]).
I like that Goodell has an iron fist. I like that he throws out suspensions that are tough. I like that he manages the league like a manager should, as a boss, not a buddy. He doesn't kiss the ass of the players. He understands his role - and he does it well. There is a great article on him in last weeks SI - good reading.
IMO, De Smith and the NFLPA are kidding themselves if they think they have a chance. Should the NFL give more for healthcare to retired players? Definitely to players retired before 1990, but hell, nowadays the money these guys make should dictate their pension. If a guy like Peyton Manning needs a pension then he severely f'd up his financial situation. I think it's too complicated to look at black and white. And if the players are so concerned for ex-players and the old-school guys, why don't they step to the plate as a union and pitch in themselves for the players that laid the ground work for them to become multi-millionaires?
I could ramble forever, but you get my point.
Your point about the NBA is wrong to me. The Spurs certainly didn't win 4 championships because they were favored by the elite, or possessed elite players that the league wanted to protect.
-
Well when I think about Lerner, it makes me sick when this little spoiled bitch makes $1 off the Browns. I don't know much about the rest of the owners, but if 1/2 of them are like him I hope they get milked!
I don't understand the comment???
Why shouldn't he make money??
Just because he has money???
The fact of the matter is he should make vast sums of money.
When did profit become a dirty word in this country???
It's sickening the way some of you people think.
I don't understand the comment???
Why shouldn't he make money??
Just because he has money???
The fact of the matter is he should make vast sums of money.
When did profit become a dirty word in this country???
It's sickening the way some of you people think.
I'm not against capitalism......I just hate the fact that we have a douche for an owner. I can't stand owners who make millions on Sunday, but don't give a shit what product they deliver to the fans. Never said owners shouldn't make money, but can't stand when guys like him are making it. The waterboy is more devoted to this team he is. Give me a Rooney-type owner and I'll be happy to watch him get rich. Damn. If I'm choosing sides between a POS type owner and guys who actually arrive at the stadium for a football game, then yeah I would rather see players get their way. Even if the players milk them they will still makes millions upon millions. Besides the 'profit' arguement works both ways before you jump off the deep end. I just can't stand that its a pathetic owner like Lerner making it. Your acting like he actually invested anything in this team, even time. Football is a distraction to his soccer games where he actually acts like a real owner. So again if half of them are like him I hope they get milked because they make me sick. Id rather know MY money goes to someone who gives a xxxx. Since the profits come from people like ME. Do you own a lerner jersey? Do you go to the games to see him.....if he would even show up? Like I said they'll make plenty of money, but if you want everyone to support guys like Lerner who don't give a shit then your loco. He's the NFL equivalent to some asshole who owns a clothing store selling New Kids on the Block sweaters in August asking his employees to take a pay cut because he's not making enough to keep up his lifestyle of being a professional pussy. Not all the owners are like him, they actually care. If this was any other business Lerner would be bankrupt.......you know that too. Can't just expect to make tons of money with inferior products. The owners should be fighting amongst themselves about revenue sharing. I wish......then Lerner would be gone and we could get someone who gives a shit about winning football games. You people make sound like Colt is gonna make more than Lerner next year. Truthfully I could careless how this turns out as long as there is football next year, but I am not going to cry if billionaires like Lerner don't get their way. Boo xxxxing woo! The game is SUPPOSED to be about the players and the fans anyways........without either nobody makes shit. I sure as hell don't go to cheer for Lerner. Maybe you go to the games so Lerner can afford to buy golden soccer balls for Aston Villa to practice with, but I don't. xxxx him. Like Lerner really deserves more than he already gets.....get real.
-
Yes, I get your point. You sound like Governor Kasich, blame unions for all of America's ills.
While unions have their drawbacks, they are necessary. Are they necessary in major league sports, I'm not so sure.
Unions are around to make sure that hard working American's who make a shit to average salary are protected for some of the greedy companies they work for. I don't think millionaire sports players really need a "union" to protect them from getting super xxxxed. But at the same time you need a group there to protect them health wise (18 games a season) and to make sure that they are at least making what they deserve (making it so they are not making as much as teachers a shit like that).
Hillis-iz-Boss said:
Unions are around to make sure that hard working American's who make a shit to average salary are protected for some of the greedy companies they work for. I don't think millionaire sports players really need a "union" to protect them from getting super xxxxed. But at the same time you need a group there to protect them health wise (18 games a season) and to make sure that they are at least making what they deserve (making it so they are not making as much as teachers a shit like that).Well, there's talk of decertifying the union, which would in theory may the NFL liable to anti-trust action.
-
Can season ticket holders, hold a strike over having to pay full price for preseason tickets?
Can season ticket holders, hold a strike over having to pay full price for preseason tickets?
Well you could in theory, but in reality- uh no. In fact love letters have already gone out to the season ticket holders saying "it's business as usual" and we want your cash by May.
It might get interesting if there was a massive season ticket holder revolt withholding payment until the CBA gets settled, but the teams hold the high cards. My bet is it won't happen- at least with us folks who have long seniority. Way too risky. The PSL agreement clearly states if you don't pay up on time, the seats revert to the team- so if you've got inbetween the 30s primo seating that got handed down from your grandfather 40 years ago, you gonna chance Lerner and Co are going to be all understanding if "you" go on strike? Not likely.
Another thing to factor in is the owners PRIMARY source of revenue isn't ticket sales- it's the TV revenue. So in theory, they could play the games in empty stadiums, and still make money- which is why I can't figure out why owners are bitching players are getting too big a piece of the pie.
But getting back to the preseason prices- this is where the owners have it dead wrong. Season ticket holders aren't upset about the quality of the games- it's about being forced to pay full freight to watch the starters play one series in preseason #4. The not so rocket science solution is to cut the price of the preseason tickets in half, and amortize that over the regular season.
-
mikeyP72 said:
I dont see how inheriting a football team and millions upon millions of dollars entitles Lerner to anything Ballpeen.Maybe the way you think is what's sickening?
Just because the guy was handled a silver platter in life doesn't mean he's done a good job with it and deserves any type of profit. He clearly has done the opposite.
I never said he was entitled to anything. No doubt he has to do a good job, and I understand how that can be questioned.
All I am saying is there seems to be a growing resentment towards people who still maintain a decent salary or have a big pile of cash.
-
I don't think the NFl business model is much different than the business model of a McDonalds restaurant.
I was a 35% silent partner in my brothers company which held 5 McDonalds franchises before he sold out 4-5 years ago.
In a 'typical" McDonalds, food cost ran about 30%, paper ran 4%, crew labor ran around 17%, and management labor ran about 4%.....so cost of goods and total labor ran about 55%.
A typical profit % would be around 10%.
Here is the problem the NFL has. Unlike the restaurant, they can't really increase sales by doing everything right. They are limited by stadium size. You can only serve so many customers on any given Sunday.
They now know they have tickets priced about as high as they can go for a good while, and in many cases may even have to decrease ticket pricing. Advertising rates have leveled off, and even those might start to decrease, yet they are always having to boost the starting pay 3-4-5 % over last years figure.
The numbers don't work anymore. Forget the amount of dollars involved, that doesn't matter. It's all in the percentages.
The owners pie is shrinking and the players pie is growing, and the owners aren't putting up with it anymore.
IMO they are at the point a reasonable profit margin they are entitled too....yes, I am saying that now...is quickly going down the drain.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
Can season ticket holders, hold a strike over having to pay full price for preseason tickets?
Can season ticket holders, hold a strike over having to pay full price for preseason tickets?
That's why I am in favor of an 18 game season. That way we will only have to pay for 1 practice game. I'm sick of paying for 2 exhibition games. Especially the 4th game. they don;t play any starters at all.
-
I don't think the NFl business model is much different than the business model of a McDonalds restaurant.
I was a 35% silent partner in my brothers company which held 5 McDonalds franchises before he sold out 4-5 years ago.
In a 'typical" McDonalds, food cost ran about 30%, paper ran 4%, crew labor ran around 17%, and management labor ran about 4%.....so cost of goods and total labor ran about 55%.
A typical profit % would be around 10%.
Here is the problem the NFL has. Unlike the restaurant, they can't really increase sales by doing everything right. They are limited by stadium size. You can only serve so many customers on any given Sunday.
They now know they have tickets priced about as high as they can go for a good while, and in many cases may even have to decrease ticket pricing. Advertising rates have leveled off, and even those might start to decrease, yet they are always having to boost the starting pay 3-4-5 % over last years figure.
The numbers don't work anymore. Forget the amount of dollars involved, that doesn't matter. It's all in the percentages.
The owners pie is shrinking and the players pie is growing, and the owners aren't putting up with it anymore.
IMO they are at the point a reasonable profit margin they are entitled too....yes, I am saying that now...is quickly going down the drain.
I don't think the NFl business model is much different than the business model of a McDonalds restaurant.
I was a 35% silent partner in my brothers company which held 5 McDonalds franchises before he sold out 4-5 years ago.
In a 'typical" McDonalds, food cost ran about 30%, paper ran 4%, crew labor ran around 17%, and management labor ran about 4%.....so cost of goods and total labor ran about 55%.
A typical profit % would be around 10%.
Here is the problem the NFL has. Unlike the restaurant, they can't really increase sales by doing everything right. They are limited by stadium size. You can only serve so many customers on any given Sunday.
They now know they have tickets priced about as high as they can go for a good while, and in many cases may even have to decrease ticket pricing. Advertising rates have leveled off, and even those might start to decrease, yet they are always having to boost the starting pay 3-4-5 % over last years figure.
The numbers don't work anymore. Forget the amount of dollars involved, that doesn't matter. It's all in the percentages.
The owners pie is shrinking and the players pie is growing, and the owners aren't putting up with it anymore.
IMO they are at the point a reasonable profit margin they are entitled too....yes, I am saying that now...is quickly going down the drain.
Well, I dug this up for kicks and giggles 'Peen.
And philosophically, just because you "bought into" a super successful franchise, does that mean you have a God given right to turn (what you consider to be) a decent profit? I say no. Look at those numbers- teams were making millions before they even sold us fans $7 beers.
Yeah- (some) owners who bought in high are feeling cash strapped because of their debt service. Well, Browns fans have been down that road before in spades with one former Browns owner by the name of Arthur B Modell. And ditto that with some team's values decreasing, so owners can't borrow (as much) against their equity. So cry me a river- till the owners open the books and prove someone is LOSING money- your arguments don't hold water- you're just not making as much as you think you're "entitled" to.
For fun, Randy's dad bought the Browns for about $400 million in 1999. so giving him a conservative $50 million a year operating margin, that means Al's "investment" was paid off years ago. I don't know about you, but I could live like the Emperor of Dayton on $50 million a year. After a year or two, I would probably have trouble spending money that fast.
And in case you think I'm on the players side, well, I'm not. A rookie wage scale is long overdue. When you're paying Sam Bradford Tom Brady money before he ever took a snap in the league, something's seriously wrong. And in your altruism, players- how much of your $4+ billion share of the pie did you allocate to your crippled retired brethren? a few hundred million buys one hell of a lot of health insurance. And with rookie minimum @ $300k- about six times what the average working stiff that buys those season tickets makes- don't expect me to feel your pain too much either.
-
He wasn't making 50 mil a year.
Operating income isn't profit.
If you take the numbers ....it said the average team had a OI of 32 mil.
After taxes, interest, and D&A, that figure is now going down towards 10-15 mil.
No doubt a large sum of money, but from a percentage standpoint based on total revenue, it is now down towards the 10-12% figure.....just like the restaurant.
Any business plan from lemonade stand to the largest mulit-national company you can name that doesn't have a business plan that doesn't allow for a 10% net profit is a failed outfit.
-
Here is what we know based on the Packers, a publicly traded company who's numbers are known.
I would assume the Packers are a team that doesn't have trouble generating top line sales, so their numbers would be some of the best in the league, not in the middle or lower half.
http://www.packers.com/news-and-events/art...de-384c565d01fb
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
Well whether or not you side with the owners, this whole lockout will be on them. The vets of this league are in the end are more than willing to agree to a rookie pay scale and will probably live with a 18 game schedule which will add millions to owners pockets. The owners that are crying the most are the ones who built new stadiums and are looking for ways to help pay their new overhead. I find it rather amusing since there are other events that are and should be creating outside revenues for the owners to help with that overhead. See in terms of NFL money the owner of Bengals will make more than the owner of the Cowboys because the Bengals will not be making a huge stadium payment. Its the jerry jones that are bitching about short term profits when in the long run they will far out earn everyone else. The packers just renovated the stadium......which on paper shows their net profits dropping. Its like an owner of a business asking employees to take a paycut so his profit margin won't drop while he builds a bigger office. Its greed plain and simple. Just pay for YOUR own capital and let us have OUR football. Percentage wise the numbers are no different than back in 06 when the owners agreed to it. How the owners choose to invest their money is on them. When they finishing paying their debts they will be the big winners in the end............just ask the owner of the bengals.
-
Millionaires fighting Billionaires, lol. This is better then football season, lol. As the NFL turns.
-
I don't think the NFl business model is much different than the business model of a McDonalds restaurant.
I was a 35% silent partner in my brothers company which held 5 McDonalds franchises before he sold out 4-5 years ago.
In a 'typical" McDonalds, food cost ran about 30%, paper ran 4%, crew labor ran around 17%, and management labor ran about 4%.....so cost of goods and total labor ran about 55%.
A typical profit % would be around 10%.
Here is the problem the NFL has. Unlike the restaurant, they can't really increase sales by doing everything right. They are limited by stadium size. You can only serve so many customers on any given Sunday.
They now know they have tickets priced about as high as they can go for a good while, and in many cases may even have to decrease ticket pricing. Advertising rates have leveled off, and even those might start to decrease, yet they are always having to boost the starting pay 3-4-5 % over last years figure.
The numbers don't work anymore. Forget the amount of dollars involved, that doesn't matter. It's all in the percentages.
The owners pie is shrinking and the players pie is growing, and the owners aren't putting up with it anymore.
IMO they are at the point a reasonable profit margin they are entitled too....yes, I am saying that now...is quickly going down the drain.
I don't think the NFl business model is much different than the business model of a McDonalds restaurant.
I was a 35% silent partner in my brothers company which held 5 McDonalds franchises before he sold out 4-5 years ago.
In a 'typical" McDonalds, food cost ran about 30%, paper ran 4%, crew labor ran around 17%, and management labor ran about 4%.....so cost of goods and total labor ran about 55%.
A typical profit % would be around 10%.
Here is the problem the NFL has. Unlike the restaurant, they can't really increase sales by doing everything right. They are limited by stadium size. You can only serve so many customers on any given Sunday.
They now know they have tickets priced about as high as they can go for a good while, and in many cases may even have to decrease ticket pricing. Advertising rates have leveled off, and even those might start to decrease, yet they are always having to boost the starting pay 3-4-5 % over last years figure.
The numbers don't work anymore. Forget the amount of dollars involved, that doesn't matter. It's all in the percentages.
The owners pie is shrinking and the players pie is growing, and the owners aren't putting up with it anymore.
IMO they are at the point a reasonable profit margin they are entitled too....yes, I am saying that now...is quickly going down the drain.
Then go ahead and give the owners the other 1 billion but why in the hell do the also need to add two more games a season and implement a rookie wage scale if the owners are already getting more money. Those two things are being pushed across, one to get the owners more money, and the other to save the owners million upon millions of dollars. It makes no sense to say that they should get a bigger piece of the pie and then should get to pay even less money to new players so that they can save even more. This deal could put the owners not only back at their 10% profit margin, but way above it. Add all of this on top of the fact that the owners still refuse to show their books, for all we know they are making a huge profit right now and are just being greedy.
-
Green bays numbers are public.
The NFL shares revenue. Most stadiums are about the same in size. Payrolls for players have to hit a minimum and have a maximum. Ticket pricing varies some, but most prices are reasonably close for regular seats...not the skybox variety.
No doubt there are going to be some variations as all revenue isn't shared, but all of the big money is...it's not a stretch to say each teams numbers are going to closely reflect the Green Bay numbers.
At least the teams with a solid fan base who buy tickets and fill the stadium.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
What is the actual date the lockout is supposed to take place, the day before the draft? I am assuming the draft would be suspended if an agreement wasn't in place.
-
What is the actual date the lockout is supposed to take place, the day before the draft? I am assuming the draft would be suspended if an agreement wasn't in place.
What is the actual date the lockout is supposed to take place, the day before the draft? I am assuming the draft would be suspended if an agreement wasn't in place.
March 4th.
I may be wrong but I thought they still have the draft just can't talk numbers or sign a contract until the cba is finalized.
-
Here is what we know based on the Packers, a publicly traded company who's numbers are known.
I would assume the Packers are a team that doesn't have trouble generating top line sales, so their numbers would be some of the best in the league, not in the middle or lower half.
http://www.packers.com/news-and-events/art...de-384c565d01fb
Here is what we know based on the Packers, a publicly traded company who's numbers are known.
I would assume the Packers are a team that doesn't have trouble generating top line sales, so their numbers would be some of the best in the league, not in the middle or lower half.
http://www.packers.com/news-and-events/art...de-384c565d01fb
Actually, I understand that because the Packers are in such a small market, they are in the middle or lower half, except perhaps in years when they are doing very well, like this year obviously. This is the speculation I have heard.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login