Holmgren's Thoughts at the Combine
-
So is this an intentional or unintentional slap to Ron Wolf's face? Holmgren has NEVER been known as a talent-FINDER, but rather a great DEVELOPER of raw talent. Which he is not even asked to do here. Brett Farve brought to GB via WOLF developed by MH, Hasselbeck drafted by WOLF developed by MH. Did he possibly have INPUT on the subject of talent to bring in.....absolutely he did, but that doesnt make him responsible for bringing in those talents. Ive been around long enough to realize Cleveland Browns fans always think they have gotten the cream of the crop anytime new faces come in here, even though every ounce of common logic in your brain tells you not to think that way. Im not saying MH can't become a great president, might be that guy. But lets keep the facts factual, instead of pretending that what we want to happen is reality.
On the surface I have no problem with you or anyone believing this, but the problem arises when before the guy even does anything he is considered a god. So if he, god forbid, turns out to be as big a failure as everyone before him, it will be nearly impossible to convince the people who skew his coaching and managing skills that he sucks and is the problem.
I like you HIB, but that is an obvious brainfart that is too common around here. Anyways sorry for getting too off-topic, but I just cant hardly hear it anymore without wanting to shake the shit out of someone.
I haven't announced the guy a god and I really don't know how you can take my comment that way. All of my excitement this off-season is based off of 1) last years draft which both Holmgren and Heckert worked on and 2) the whole organization plus the coaching being on the same page for the first time since Holmgren got here. I will admit I am wrong by saying that Holmgren drafted those guys in Greenbay but he did the same thing when he was in Seattle (even though all he got out of it was Wallace) when he did both the GMing and coaching. So regardless he is going to attempt to draft a low round QB and have him developed until he either A) proves to not have enough talent and gets cut, B ) gain enough talent to where he becomes a trade for a higher draft pick than we spent on him, or C) develops into a starter if he really developes well and Colt doesn't pan out due to ability or injury.
Hillis-iz-Boss said:
I haven't announced the guy a god and I really don't know how you can take my comment that way. All of my excitement this off-season is based off of 1) last years draft which both Holmgren and Heckert worked on and 2) the whole organization plus the coaching being on the same page for the first time since Holmgren got here. I will admit I am wrong by saying that Holmgren drafted those guys in Greenbay but he did the same thing when he was in Seattle (even though all he got out of it was Wallace) when he did both the GMing and coaching. So regardless he is going to attempt to draft a low round QB and have him developed until he either A) proves to not have enough talent and gets cut, B ) gain enough talent to where he becomes a trade for a higher draft pick than we spent on him, or C) develops into a starter if he really developes well and Colt doesn't pan out due to ability or injury.I read recently on scout.com an old article about MH's gm days in seattle and was shocked to find out that based on his draft record was ranked 27th(tied) from 1999-2002, when he actually was the gm. His collection of drafted qbs: 1999-Brock Huard, 2001-Josh Booty, 2002-Jeff Kelly, and the year 2000 when the guru decides not to draft a qb there's Tom Brady rd 6. Ya know..............maybe since Philly had SUCCESSFUL drafts under GM Tom Heckert we should let Tommy make all the picks.
BTW our GMs from 1999-2002: ranked 25th(tied). Does that not scare the shit out of you or what?
-
Hillis-iz-Boss said:
I haven't announced the guy a god and I really don't know how you can take my comment that way. All of my excitement this off-season is based off of 1) last years draft which both Holmgren and Heckert worked on and 2) the whole organization plus the coaching being on the same page for the first time since Holmgren got here. I will admit I am wrong by saying that Holmgren drafted those guys in Greenbay but he did the same thing when he was in Seattle (even though all he got out of it was Wallace) when he did both the GMing and coaching. So regardless he is going to attempt to draft a low round QB and have him developed until he either A) proves to not have enough talent and gets cut, B ) gain enough talent to where he becomes a trade for a higher draft pick than we spent on him, or C) develops into a starter if he really developes well and Colt doesn't pan out due to ability or injury.I read recently on scout.com an old article about MH's gm days in seattle and was shocked to find out that based on his draft record was ranked 27th(tied) from 1999-2002, when he actually was the gm. His collection of drafted qbs: 1999-Brock Huard, 2001-Josh Booty, 2002-Jeff Kelly, and the year 2000 when the guru decides not to draft a qb there's Tom Brady rd 6. Ya know..............maybe since Philly had SUCCESSFUL drafts under GM Tom Heckert we should let Tommy make all the picks.
BTW our GMs from 1999-2002: ranked 25th(tied). Does that not scare the shit out of you or what?
I read recently on scout.com an old article about MH's gm days in seattle and was shocked to find out that based on his draft record was ranked 27th(tied) from 1999-2002, when he actually was the gm. His collection of drafted qbs: 1999-Brock Huard, 2001-Josh Booty, 2002-Jeff Kelly, and the year 2000 when the guru decides not to draft a qb there's Tom Brady rd 6. Ya know..............maybe since Philly had SUCCESSFUL drafts under GM Tom Heckert we should let Tommy make all the picks.
BTW our GMs from 1999-2002: ranked 25th(tied). Does that not scare the shit out of you or what?
Not really because Holmgren is there for the scouting and stuff and both him and Heckert came forward and said that Heckert had total control during the draft last year except for the McCoy pick.
-
I read recently on scout.com an old article about MH's gm days in seattle and was shocked to find out that based on his draft record was ranked 27th(tied) from 1999-2002, when he actually was the gm. His collection of drafted qbs: 1999-Brock Huard, 2001-Josh Booty, 2002-Jeff Kelly, and the year 2000 when the guru decides not to draft a qb there's Tom Brady rd 6. Ya know..............maybe since Philly had SUCCESSFUL drafts under GM Tom Heckert we should let Tommy make all the picks.
BTW our GMs from 1999-2002: ranked 25th(tied). Does that not scare the shit out of you or what?
Not really because Holmgren is there for the scouting and stuff and both him and Heckert came forward and said that Heckert had total control during the draft last year except for the McCoy pick.
Hillis-iz-Boss said:
Not really because Holmgren is there for the scouting and stuff and both him and Heckert came forward and said that Heckert had total control during the draft last year except for the McCoy pick.I believe in Heckert. His tenure in Philly was unbelievable. He had 13 players that were drafted during his tenure and still are playing today on the Eagles.
-
Jarrett Brown was signed in the offseason, and by most accounts seems likely to fill the WildDawg role. He's got good size, decent speed, and playmaking ability.
via Bleacherreport
I doubt Holmgren and Heckert would draft a WildDawg QB as the "project". More than likely, it will be a guy from a small school with good numbers, or a freak of a specimen. My hope would be Pat Devlin in 4th round. Assuming he doesn't have a spectacular combine and individual workout session, he should be available then.
-
Jarrett Brown was signed in the offseason, and by most accounts seems likely to fill the WildDawg role. He's got good size, decent speed, and playmaking ability.
via Bleacherreport
I doubt Holmgren and Heckert would draft a WildDawg QB as the "project". More than likely, it will be a guy from a small school with good numbers, or a freak of a specimen. My hope would be Pat Devlin in 4th round. Assuming he doesn't have a spectacular combine and individual workout session, he should be available then.
Jarrett Brown was signed in the offseason, and by most accounts seems likely to fill the WildDawg role. He's got good size, decent speed, and playmaking ability.
via Bleacherreport
I doubt Holmgren and Heckert would draft a WildDawg QB as the "project". More than likely, it will be a guy from a small school with good numbers, or a freak of a specimen. My hope would be Pat Devlin in 4th round. Assuming he doesn't have a spectacular combine and individual workout session, he should be available then.
I don't think they will spend a 4th round pick on a QB though.
Ruining threads since 1897. -
Jarrett Brown was signed in the offseason, and by most accounts seems likely to fill the WildDawg role. He's got good size, decent speed, and playmaking ability.
via Bleacherreport
I doubt Holmgren and Heckert would draft a WildDawg QB as the "project". More than likely, it will be a guy from a small school with good numbers, or a freak of a specimen. My hope would be Pat Devlin in 4th round. Assuming he doesn't have a spectacular combine and individual workout session, he should be available then.
I don't think they will spend a 4th round pick on a QB though.
Hillis-iz-Boss said:
I don't think they will spend a 4th round pick on a QB though.I don't either. That's why I hope Devlin has some terrible workouts that drop his stock. But I doubt that will happen.
-
Yeah plz no later than a 6th on a QB we have way to many glaring needs on this team, then to be drafting another QB as 'Project'....We need playmakers and we need them now on both sides of the ball
Im hoping there is some way we end up with Green but i dont see it happening, he may run a 4.39 and be gone even before Cincy picks
-
I think if they take a QB it will either be Taylor (you can't just say an athletic QB will just be used as a wild dawg QB) who did really good this year and actually has a chance to turn into a Mike Vick with less throwing power (good for a WCO) or this guy from Idaho who has enough arm strength now to make most if not all of the NFL throws, good leadership skills, and has improved his accuracy every year over the course of his college career (will find name when I am more sober). I think both of these would be good development guys. Of course I can also see both Holmgren and Shurmer talking to this Brown guy more and just saying he will be the first development guy for the first WCO season.
-
Yeah, if Green runs a solid sub 4.35, he'll most definitely be gone by 6.
I don't think he is that fast, more like a 4.4 - 4.45. And you rright there is a good chance that he is taken by Cinci as long as they still think Palmer isn't serious and teams before them might pick best available player with at least Cam Newton and maybe that dude from Missouri going too. But if you think about it one of the 5 players will fall to us, Miller, Green, Peterson, Fairly, Bowers and I am fine with taking any of these guys.
Hillis-iz-Boss said:
I don't think he is that fast, more like a 4.4 - 4.45. And you rright there is a good chance that he is taken by Cinci as long as they still think Palmer isn't serious and teams before them might pick best available player with at least Cam Newton and maybe that dude from Missouri going too. But if you think about it one of the 5 players will fall to us, Miller, Green, Peterson, Fairly, Bowers and I am fine with taking any of these guys.I think Palmer is dead serious, and Mike Brown would be extremely unwise to call his bluff. This ain't Mucho Stinko wanting to be traded- Palmer retires, and the Bengals have the equivalent of Spurgon Wynn @ qb.
Point #1 would be Palmer does not live high off the hog, and is financially set for life whether he plays another down in the NFL or not.
#2 Would be the knee injury
#3 would be MB's miserly ways have
worn on Carson and finally
#4 he's a California dude that might like to live closer to home.
The Cardinals make the Bengals an offer, Brown should be all over it.
Even if Palmer stays the Bengals have far more pressing needs on defense than taking a WR.
-
Jarrett Brown was signed in the offseason, and by most accounts seems likely to fill the WildDawg role. He's got good size, decent speed, and playmaking ability.
via Bleacherreport
I doubt Holmgren and Heckert would draft a WildDawg QB as the "project". More than likely, it will be a guy from a small school with good numbers, or a freak of a specimen. My hope would be Pat Devlin in 4th round. Assuming he doesn't have a spectacular combine and individual workout session, he should be available then.
I don't think they will spend a 4th round pick on a QB though.
Hillis-iz-Boss said:
I don't think they will spend a 4th round pick on a QB though.I might say that is the border....we might take a QB with a 4th if the right guy slips through the 3rd round.
But, for the most part I agree, it will be later.
I read somewhere Holmgren likes taking a qb every year. I don't know about that, but it does make some sense. You start to build your own pipeline at qb. It also allows you to move guys out who you drafted 2 years ago for some new blood if they aren't panning out. It also allows you to move a guy out if that 5th rounder does start to pan out. You can trade him to someone for a high pick or make him the starter and move out the guy you currently have for a high pick.
-
So is this an intentional or unintentional slap to Ron Wolf's face? Holmgren has NEVER been known as a talent-FINDER, but rather a great DEVELOPER of raw talent. Which he is not even asked to do here. Brett Farve brought to GB via WOLF developed by MH, Hasselbeck drafted by WOLF developed by MH. Did he possibly have INPUT on the subject of talent to bring in.....absolutely he did, but that doesnt make him responsible for bringing in those talents. Ive been around long enough to realize Cleveland Browns fans always think they have gotten the cream of the crop anytime new faces come in here, even though every ounce of common logic in your brain tells you not to think that way. Im not saying MH can't become a great president, might be that guy. But lets keep the facts factual, instead of pretending that what we want to happen is reality.
On the surface I have no problem with you or anyone believing this, but the problem arises when before the guy even does anything he is considered a god. So if he, god forbid, turns out to be as big a failure as everyone before him, it will be nearly impossible to convince the people who skew his coaching and managing skills that he sucks and is the problem.
I like you HIB, but that is an obvious brainfart that is too common around here. Anyways sorry for getting too off-topic, but I just cant hardly hear it anymore without wanting to shake the shit out of someone.
i understand the need for depth at every position so seeing us draft another corner this year wouldn't upset me one bit. but another QB? come on. i thought the consensus here was we're behind colt mccoy. we would have won a couple of more games last year if he wasn't hurt. blah, blah, blah. and if saying colt is the guy for the upcoming season, isn't holmgren contradicting himself by saying he'll draft another QB? WTF???? draft picks are way too flippin precious to keep picking the same (offensive play maker) position every year. yes we need DE, DL, RT, WR and yes more DBs.
cut delhomme (thanks BTW for bringing in this waste) keep seneca. find someone along the lines of a ratliffe (yeah i know he sucks). you'll get him cheap and you won't have to waste a pick this year. if holmgren is so good at developing QBs then why does it matter who it is??????
i understand the need for depth at every position so seeing us draft another corner this year wouldn't upset me one bit. but another QB? come on. i thought the consensus here was we're behind colt mccoy. we would have won a couple of more games last year if he wasn't hurt. blah, blah, blah. and if saying colt is the guy for the upcoming season, isn't holmgren contradicting himself by saying he'll draft another QB? WTF???? draft picks are way too flippin precious to keep picking the same (offensive play maker) position every year. yes we need DE, DL, RT, WR and yes more DBs.
cut delhomme (thanks BTW for bringing in this waste) keep seneca. find someone along the lines of a ratliffe (yeah i know he sucks). you'll get him cheap and you won't have to waste a pick this year. if holmgren is so good at developing QBs then why does it matter who it is??????
I feel what your sayin, I'm looking in from afar and don't like the things I'm seeing from this dude. MH is trying to put his signiture everywhere he can on this team. Heckert is the real deal as far as the FO is concerned and Holmgren seems to want to be part time gm around here. He brings in HIS guys and wants to draft HIS guys. Its like I love the guy for having the great eye to bring us Heckert, but everything else he does just has pissed me off. MH can swallow up all the credit for Colt he wants, but Colt, by the time we took him, was almost certainly near or at the top of everyones bpa list. I respect MH as coach, but he is slowly becoming the 'Matt Millen' of the Browns for all the reasons you listed and then some.
BUT we might get lucky enough to have Heckert drag our asses in a forward direction in the next few years, despite what everyone else does in the FO. MH is handcuffing him sometimes, but he still did well last offseason. Dude is a winner. So I guess for now we have to live with a few certain draft busts(via MH) and a few awful FA signings (via MH) as long as Heckert gets to do his thing. That's what keeps me going.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login