The Official Nfl Cba/lockout Thread
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Some people will be on the side of the owners, more people will be on the side of the players. In all honesty, the owners need to win a couple of court rulings or football as we know it will change and probably not for the better. I don't want to see an unbalanced league in the mold of baseball. I like the NFL draft and I like the salary cap. I want all teams to have an equal chance of building a winner. That is what makes this league exciting and that is what has made this league into the most profitable sport in North America. Both sides need to be embroiled in a "stalemate" with the threat of lost revenues to force them back to negotiations. Rookie salaries do need to be capped. No matter how good your scouting department, you are going to make bad choices and the team should not have to pay for mistakes for years to come, as it will diminish that teams ability to compete.
Personally, I believe there needs to be another party to the lawsuit against the NFL, and that is a class action suit on behalf of all the states that support an NFL franchise. The NFL markets themselves as being responsible members of the community, but they have "extorted" state and local governments into paying for stadiums with tax money. Now, in this day in age, the people (who make far less than either of these parties) are struggling to generate enough tax revenue to support critical government functions. The owners wanted another "billion" off the top to pay for stadiums, that billion should pay off all local governments who invested in NFL stadiums first, using the other "billion" the owners wanted.
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Some people will be on the side of the owners, more people will be on the side of the players. In all honesty, the owners need to win a couple of court rulings or football as we know it will change and probably not for the better. I don't want to see an unbalanced league in the mold of baseball. I like the NFL draft and I like the salary cap. I want all teams to have an equal chance of building a winner. That is what makes this league exciting and that is what has made this league into the most profitable sport in North America. Both sides need to be embroiled in a "stalemate" with the threat of lost revenues to force them back to negotiations. Rookie salaries do need to be capped. No matter how good your scouting department, you are going to make bad choices and the team should not have to pay for mistakes for years to come, as it will diminish that teams ability to compete.
Personally, I believe there needs to be another party to the lawsuit against the NFL, and that is a class action suit on behalf of all the states that support an NFL franchise. The NFL markets themselves as being responsible members of the community, but they have "extorted" state and local governments into paying for stadiums with tax money. Now, in this day in age, the people (who make far less than either of these parties) are struggling to generate enough tax revenue to support critical government functions. The owners wanted another "billion" off the top to pay for stadiums, that billion should pay off all local governments who invested in NFL stadiums first, using the other "billion" the owners wanted.
Endymion said:
Some people will be on the side of the owners, more people will be on the side of the players. In all honesty, the owners need to win a couple of court rulings or football as we know it will change and probably not for the better. I don't want to see an unbalanced league in the mold of baseball. I like the NFL draft and I like the salary cap. I want all teams to have an equal chance of building a winner. That is what makes this league exciting and that is what has made this league into the most profitable sport in North America. Both sides need to be embroiled in a "stalemate" with the threat of lost revenues to force them back to negotiations. Rookie salaries do need to be capped. No matter how good your scouting department, you are going to make bad choices and the team should not have to pay for mistakes for years to come, as it will diminish that teams ability to compete.
Personally, I believe there needs to be another party to the lawsuit against the NFL, and that is a class action suit on behalf of all the states that support an NFL franchise. The NFL markets themselves as being responsible members of the community, but they have "extorted" state and local governments into paying for stadiums with tax money. Now, in this day in age, the people (who make far less than either of these parties) are struggling to generate enough tax revenue to support critical government functions. The owners wanted another "billion" off the top to pay for stadiums, that billion should pay off all local governments who invested in NFL stadiums first, using the other "billion" the owners wanted.
I agree that I don't want football to change, but the owners are the reason this is all happening. They got greedy and wanted more and now it's biting them in the ass. I pray that if this labor dispute stays on the side of the players that they don't get equally as greedy. Right now they have most of the public on their side and all it's going to take to shift that support back to the players is if they try to change things like ZERO cap and no draft. I feel like the fact that the owners are faced with zero capped seasons until a new CBA is reached and the players have the upper hand that a deal will get done that at least closely reflects that old CBA (because remember the players liked the old CBA and just wanted it renewed, the owners wanted to change it).
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I think that the owners and players are both a bunch of greedy spoiled brats. Imagine waking up tomorrow able to run a 4.4 forty and looking at $10,000,000 bucks then saying that it is a form of slavery. Or imagine waking up and finding that you own a team and you don't even have to try and win, you will still make $10,000,000 or more a year. Then you talk the city into building you a new stadium to keep you from moving. People still come to the games and buy jerseys no matter how bad the team is, what a great business. How many restaurants or hotels stay open when they suck? How many keep investing in the same computer when it sucks every time?
The fans are the patsies here. We are the ones allowing the spoiled owners and spoiled players to keep up their act. How many people keep watching a tv show that sucks except for sports? How many other places do you spend $8 on a beer and $6 on a soft pretzel that costs $.75?
If the owners and players crap on the golden egg they will only have themselves to blame.
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I'm honestly am tired of the whole "both are at fault we need to do something about it line." You ass is on a team forum where you have 2500 posts, and I would bet my left nut that you are currently in the category of people spending money on jerseys, tickets, shirts, hats, beers, pretzels, and NFL programing in order to support/watch this team. Unless your willing to give all that up in order to stop supporting both of these spoiled parties then shut the hell up and if you say that you are then your a liar.
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If they have a strike/lockout that costs part of the season I will no longer be an nfl fan, you can count on it. You will have no claim to call me a liar. My interest is dropping and I am so sick and tired of hearing overprivileged players and owners complain it may not even take a strike for me to give up following the team. These players and owners have the chance to positively affect so many lives but MOST (not all) of them do almost nothing to help others. There are people like Joe Thomas, Josh Cribbs, Aaron Harang, Brandon Phillips that make a difference in other people's lives with the power they have but most don't do anything but appreciate how much money they have.
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As I have said you will not quit watching the NFL and you will still put money into the hands of these people every year. You can talk about how it sickens you that this is happening, but it's the same with everyone else. The only difference is that we are not pretending to be better by claiming that we will never watch the NFL again, we're just hoping for the lockout to get over.
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Cleveland Browns seeking break on parking lot rent
By Associated Press
POSTED: 09:28 a.m. EDT, May 19, 2011
CLEVELAND: The Cleveland Browns are concerned about the NFL labor dispute and have asked for a rent discount on more than 5,000 parking spaces on docks near their lakeside stadium.
The first round ended in a tie Wednesday, with the local port authority board voting 3-3. One member was missing, and the issue will come up again in July.
The Browns asked for a $25,000 break on their $225,000 annual rent. The team also wants a $20,000 discount for each home game that falls victim to a labor dispute.
Some board members think that would set a bad precedent.
Browns spokesman Neal Gulkis tells The Plain Dealer newspaper that the team is confident the differences can be resolved.
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I'd hate to think there will be no football in 2011. This lack of free agency is seriously annoying already .
Is it only me, or does it seem like no one cares about the fans. The media seems to cover the players and the owners. It's always owners this, players that. What about the fans?
If not for us, their business would not exist. We all know this but still we, the fans, have no voice in this situation. I'm sick and tired of this. Fans should voice their opinion and prove that it's our dollars that fuel this sport. Maybe someone will listen then. I found this simple way to do it online http://www.fanswantfootball.org
It's interesting what fans of other teams and fans of football in general have to say. Anyway, I hope they can fix this situation soon.
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I'd hate to think there will be no football in 2011. This lack of free agency is seriously annoying already .
Is it only me, or does it seem like no one cares about the fans. The media seems to cover the players and the owners. It's always owners this, players that. What about the fans?
If not for us, their business would not exist. We all know this but still we, the fans, have no voice in this situation. I'm sick and tired of this. Fans should voice their opinion and prove that it's our dollars that fuel this sport. Maybe someone will listen then. I found this simple way to do it online http://www.fanswantfootball.org
It's interesting what fans of other teams and fans of football in general have to say. Anyway, I hope they can fix this situation soon.
I'd hate to think there will be no football in 2011. This lack of free agency is seriously annoying already .
Is it only me, or does it seem like no one cares about the fans. The media seems to cover the players and the owners. It's always owners this, players that. What about the fans?
If not for us, their business would not exist. We all know this but still we, the fans, have no voice in this situation. I'm sick and tired of this. Fans should voice their opinion and prove that it's our dollars that fuel this sport. Maybe someone will listen then. I found this simple way to do it online http://www.fanswantfootball.org
It's interesting what fans of other teams and fans of football in general have to say. Anyway, I hope they can fix this situation soon.
I think all involved care about the fans, but there isn't much to cover there.
How many ways can you report a fan saying he is ticked and wants football??
In all honesty, I expected this to drag.
To be honest, as a season ticket holder, I wouldn't mind if a few preseason games got wiped out.
If nothing happens by early August, then I will start to get concerned, though as a planner, I do find it irritating I can't make any hotel and dinner reservations yet.
I suppose I could, but don't want to have to go back and cancel because sure as heck I would slip up and forget to do so and get charged for one night.(Been there, done that)
I think once the 8th COA renders it's final decision, we'll start to see more movement, especially if it rules in favor of the owners. That will force the players to start a honest discussion.
The problem in this case is the players don't have to negotiate anything and seemingly have taken that attitude. They want things to remain as they were, and in all honesty really don't blame them.
If the owners are given a bit of leverage, then the players are going to realize things aren't going to remain status quo. Only then are they going to get serious about ironing out their next best deal, and I don't think it will take that long. There has already been much discussion so each side already knows where the other has set their parameters, so the discussion can be focused on the issues and numbers from the get go. All the initial tap dancing and chest thumping can be avoided since that has been going on for months now.
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This is why I side with the players. The owners are running around saying that if they lose the court battle the NFL will be in shambles, when in fact it would just force the owners to sign a CBA that resembles the old one rather quickly instead of use seeing a free for all in FA for a few months. Remember the ruling comes from the 8th court on the 3rd, and then talks resume on the 6th. It took the league how many days to tell teams they could open their doors and they were able to put off signings longer which ended up never happening because of the temporary stay issued by the 8th. What was that about 5 days to a week before they actually followed through with the court order to open up shop? It's only 3 days between when the court should rule and when talks start again. All the players want is to play under a CBA that the NFL became the most popular sports league in the country under, and they are willing to make sacrifices in rookie contract and other areas to help out retired players as well instead of forcing the owners to pay for it.
All the owners want to do is get more money while not opening there books to prove that they are even losing any, which if you go off the numbers of the Packers teams are actually making more money, and no other company in the nation would try to do this to employees without opening their books to show that they actually need the money.
Oh and if the owners win, there was that deal that they put on the table before talks broke down which mostly came down to the players losing a quarter billion instead of the full one billion. If they owner pull that off the table when talks reopen then it will show how creedy they actually are.
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Nice read from Barry McBride over at the Orange and Brown report
By Barry McBride
OBR Founder
Posted May 23, 2011
Wealthy people squabbling in front of recession-weary customers? Only in the NFL.
Behind me lies a unexceptional suburban household. My eldest daughter and son are immersed in video games, my youngest daughter and my wife are contemplating the relative merits of competing chefs on one of those cheap-to-produce reality shows that dominate the airwaves. I am in my office, a converted dining room in which can be found computer equipment, a router, some books, a middle-aged father, and an electric piano that hasn't worked since a six-year-old girl made an effort to "clean" it using chemicals it didn't like.
This home doesn't look like a battleground. But it is. It's a muddy trench in the middle of a Midwestern ground war, caught in the crossfire of forces it can't control. A data point on a statistical curve, hopefully telling educated men what is happening to the American dream.
Like most U.S. households, ours is wired and wireless. Through the wire pours news of financial bailouts and wars and foreclosures and $4 a gallon gasoline, and soon will pour news of higher food prices and politics and elections and thirty-second soundbites paid for by people we don't know.
I don't care about your politics and you don't care about mine, even if I thought I knew the answers. Which I don't. I can't tell you why the economy thrives at some times and suffers at others. But here we are: We all see the fluctuating numbers outside our local self-serve stations. We all know friends who can't find work, no matter how hard they try. We know that some of them have given up.
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Before me lies a letter from Mike Holmgren and his Cleveland Browns. Unlike the letters arriving every day asking for charitable contributions and displaying dubious bargains, this communication is less a plea than a threat: renew your season tickets by May 20th, or we'll assume that you want to give up the ducats you've held for 12 years and which you paid $2,000 for the rights to buy back in 1999. It's very nicely written, but the message is clear: Pay up or else.
I've heard this before. It's an echo from 1999.
The year the Browns returned seems much more than twelve years ago. We were just four years removed from Art Modell pulling the Cleveland Browns out of the city that had supported them for fifty years. We were riding high on a technology bubble, convinced by pundits that we were entering an era where endless brown packages carrying sensibly-priced treasures would stream through our front door from eToys, Pets.com and Webvan.
While the NASDAQ exploded, NFL owners moved aggressively, using questionable studies of local economic benefit and, when needed, veiled threats. And when, really, really needed, overt threats. Our city of Cleveland was used in many of them until the NFL finally ran out of time to use it as a bargaining chip.
Here in Cleveland, our taxes built a relatively sterile football stadium which has thus far escaped being tarnished with a corporate moniker, and which the Carmen Policy regime quickly cleared of rabble. Elsewhere, giant stadiums began to dot the landscape, funded by cities who felt they couldn't survive without an NFL franchise, plastered with names of corporations hoping to profit from their community's allegiances. Giant pirate ships, retractable roofs, and Fieldturf
made their way into city after city. And more loges. And more club seats. And personal seat licenses.Garish monuments to a reckless era when we thought there were no limits. Pricey baubles to lure in the elite, and well out of the range of the working stiffs who had supported pro football since its early days.
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One of the things that continues to amaze me is how NFL owners failed to stop building monuments to themselves and their sport even after an economic downturn became obvious.
In Dallas, Jerry Jones' ego coaxed a monumental self-tribute out of the ground at a cost of $1.15 billion to himself and Texas taxpayers (who ponied up $325 million). The edifice was finally finished at three times the promised cost, and features the world's largest high definition screen, 18 works of art commissioned from contemporary artists, and represents the world's largest column-free indoor structure. It's a football field afflicted with a grotesque pituitary condition.
Season ticket holders can get preferred parking for Cowboys games for just $75. Per game. The Dallas Cowboys wrapped up their first season in their new palace early in 2010, a year when, for the first time ever, over one million American homes (one in forty-five) were taken from their occupants through foreclosure.
This is just one example among many, and many in Texas will point to the building's value as an all-purpose facility. But to me, it's a sign that something is wrong, somehow. It bespeaks an almost mind-boggling isolation of which I've written before, a bubble in that self-inflates around sports figures who either become obscenely rich or famous, creating an ignorance of the rules as they apply to others.
Or from current economic realities. Here on the ground, in the trenches, we see a different world.
But, wait, it gets worse.
We are now in the third month of an NFL lockout, where team owners are trying to extract concessions from players, after regretting their previous labor deal and, perhaps, self-inflicted wounds created by all those concrete monuments to themselves. They will never admit this, of course, happy to cry poor while keeping their financial ledgers closed up tight, free from prying eyes.
The Browns fans version of Christmas - free agency - failed to arrive in 2011.
Oblivious to dropping attendance, which they assign mostly to their own brilliance in televising the sport, NFL owners demand a larger piece of the already gigantic $9 billion game, ostensibly so that they can drive professional football to even greater financial heights. Both sides, players and owners, play a public relations game to try to win the support of the faceless mob that buys the tickets. Unable to speak to each other directly and arrange an equitable way to split their riches, they burn up the time of our courts.
In Cleveland, businesses dependent on the football-related income promised in all those studies look towards a grim year. But what's a hotel or a sportswear manufacturer or a travel agency in the big picture? Or the fans? They'll come back, they have no choice.
Disconnection.
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I don't idolize athletes, I'm not one of those guys who paints his face each Sunday. And no one wants to see me take my shirt off in sub-zero weather, least of all me.
I don't know why I love professional football so much, I but as I grow older, I'm probably starting to figure it out, and it's also a story about disconnection.
The reason I love football, I expect, is that it's a common denominator. I'm sort of a reserved guy, not someone who walks into a room and lights it up. I struggle at times to get to know people. But football is a universal connector when topics like politics, religion and the like are verboten. Football brings us together, allows us to high-five a stranger rather than fear them.
We retreat to our nests every night, cloistered inside, lit up by video screens, but on every Sunday in the fall, 80,000 of us can come together. I can't overstate how important this to me, and to many of us. I love my community and what my team means to it. It was important enough to me that it changed the course of my career, and my life.
I wouldn't call myself a casual fan of pro football, like I am with some other sports. I don't know the Xs and Os like I wish I did, but if you say the name "Enoch DeMar", I can tell you what position he played, who signed him, and what school he went to.
My wife and I could probably afford to give the Browns organization that money they want, if we had to, but it wouldn't be easy. My little two-income family has to try to get two kids through college and allow our youngest the opportunity to participate in activities she loves. It costs me $100 to drive back and forth to work each week. We're buying less, but the grocery bills keep going up.
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Dear Mr. Goodell,
I may not be the hardest of hard-core football fans, but I'm up there, and I don't like what I see. I'm sure that common sense, or economic necessity, will prevail and we'll see football again this year. And the media will act like nothing ever happened, and many fans will return. But I can't in good conscience give you money that could be better used by my family for other things. I love your product, and the community which supports it, but not what your business has become.
If you should be doing anything this year, it's figuring how to make do with less, reducing costs to fans, giving them greater value in exchange for the increased pain they bear in supporting your expensive product. What you should not be doing is squabbling over what is, to many of us, already an obscene amount of treasure.
This is my way of saying that there will be four more seats available for someone else in Cleveland Browns Stadium this year. I will not be writing you a check. I'll have to give up that dream of "owning" those seats and passing them down to my son.
Sir, consider me the canary in your gold mine, an early-warning sign as to whether the air has become too toxic. I've been here every day for decades, watching attentively from my cage.
But, today, I'm gone.
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Barry has it so right.
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I am not usually one for cutting and pasting articles, but I thought this might be encouraging:NFL players and owners are have reconvened for a round of labor talks for a third consecutive week.
This time the two sides are holding their discussions on the Maryland shore, just outside Washington, D.C. according to Albert Breed of the NFL network.
The talks present a good news / bad news scenario. The potential bad news is the return of lawyers to the negotiating table after a two week absence where significant progress had reportedly been made. There is concern they may throw cold water on the proceedings.
On the flip side, the both the NFLPA and the league are in “deal making mode” according to ESPN’s Chris Mortensen. That report suggests the return of the lawyers could signify the framework of a new Collective Bargaining Agreement is being drafted. At the very least they are talking more details and specifics–a great sign a new deal is forthcoming.
In advance of this week’s session, the NFL sent a memo to owners Monday night requesting they plan to extend next week’s pre-planned meetings in Chicago. Several team GM’s believe a vote will be taken on the framework of a new CBA at that time according to Adam Schefter.
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Cool
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I hope so, I want to book my trip.
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I side with the owners. They are being pushed by the players reps who seem to want "it all"...
well, now, the players should sue their reps for "malpractice". Anyways, I should have posted this here:
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blurb from rotoworld:
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Report: Framework of a labor deal in place The players will reportedly receive 48 percent of "all revenue" under the framework of the labor deal currently being discussed.
NFLPA chief DeMaurice Smith insists the players only saw 53 percent of the revenues under the previous agreement, though 60 percent is the number most commonly cited. Either way, it's obvious that the NFLPA has lost quite a bit of leverage the past couple of months. Both sides are counting on increased revenue from a 16-game Thursday night schedule due to begin in 2012. The proposed deal does include a rookie wage scale, though it's still being "tweaked." The new league year is still expected to begin in mid-July. Source: ESPN.com
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According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, the NFL and NFLPA* have "reached agreement on the remaining points needed" in the CBA negotiations, and it's considered a formality that the players will approve the 10-year deal.
He reports the NFLPA* is "making plans for a major press conference Monday." It's unclear what day the deal will be officially ratified, but Schefter says "training camp and free agency are likely to begin the same day." Expect more details to emerge throughout the day. Source: ESPN
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Well it is official now. So I can officially start to get excited about the Browns. Even though I never thought there would be no football. I held my usual excitement for an upcoming season at bay. Hope we can make a smooth transition in this short time.
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