James Harrison

Vagitron

Grinder said:

we see that you have had experience with that.

Oh Grinder, you kidder you.

The Gipper

Homotron said:

Oh Grinder, you kidder you.

Yep, that is what the HGH will do for ya. Quack.

Vagitron

@the-gipper said:

Yep, that is what the HGH will do for ya. Quack.

I personally get a kick out of all the groaning McCoy is doing while he pulls himself off the ground.

manbearpig

Homotron said:

I personally get a kick out of all the groaning McCoy is doing while he pulls himself off the ground.

I bet you do, hence your name. I bet you love listning to all kinds of guys moaning.

Vagitron

@manbearpig said:

I bet you do, hence your name. I bet you love listning to all kinds of guys moaning.

Oh FOR sure. Got me dead to rights.

miktoxic

and in this corner.....zzzzzzzzzzzzzz..............zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Vagitron

mikeyP72 said:

Remember, Shittsburgh is the new San Francisco, and damn proud.

Great for the city whether you agree with it or not. Not everyone is closed minded and ridiculous. Only going to bring more commerce to a currently thriving city.

The Gipper

Homotron said:

I personally get a kick out of all the groaning McCoy is doing while he pulls himself off the ground.

Quack

The Gipper

Homotron said:

Great for the city whether you agree with it or not. Not everyone is closed minded and ridiculous. Only going to bring more commerce to a currently thriving city.

That's just fine. More power to you.

FYI, as far as "Major League" markets go, both Cleveland and Pittsburgh, believe it or not, are in much better shape than most markets....if you go by Unemployment figures.

The following "Major League" U.S. markets all had unemployment figures WORSE than Cleveland did as of May 2011:

Indianapolis

Dallas

Milwaukee

New Orleans

Phoenix

Houston

Jacksonville

New York

Kansas City

Philadelphia

Cincinnatti

Denver

Portland

St. Louis

San Francisco/Oakland/San Jose

Seattle

San Francisco

Chicago

Orlando

Memphis

Los Angeles

Miami

Detroit

Sacramento

Atlanta

Charlotte

Tampa

Raleigh

The ONLY "Major League" markets to have unemployment figures that were better than Cleveland are:

Oklahoma City

Minneapolis/St. Paul

Boston

Pittsburgh

Green Bay

Buffalo

Salt Lake City

San Antonio

Columbus

Baltimore

Source: US Department Bureau of Labor

miktoxic

@the-gipper said:

That's just fine. More power to you.

FYI, as far as "Major League" markets go, both Cleveland and Pittsburgh, believe it or not, are in much better shape than most markets....if you go by Unemployment figures.

The following "Major League" U.S. markets all had unemployment figures WORSE than Cleveland did as of May 2011:

Indianapolis

Dallas

Milwaukee

New Orleans

Phoenix

Houston

Jacksonville

New York

Kansas City

Philadelphia

Cincinnatti

Denver

Portland

St. Louis

San Francisco/Oakland/San Jose

Seattle

San Francisco

Chicago

Orlando

Memphis

Los Angeles

Miami

Detroit

Sacramento

Atlanta

Charlotte

Tampa

Raleigh

The ONLY "Major League" markets to have unemployment figures that were better than Cleveland are:

Oklahoma City

Minneapolis/St. Paul

Boston

Pittsburgh

Green Bay

Buffalo

Salt Lake City

San Antonio

Columbus

Baltimore

Source: US Department Bureau of Labor

ok, but what type of jobs are we talking about? that's this whole political shell game bullshit that's been going on for the past two years. do they break it down into sections of the job market? what are the average annual salaries of the same two jobs between those two lists and their cost of living? and if you'll notice the first list are major hubs of the population with high-paying high-end jobs (the only one that threw me off is boston, on your second list).and what about the guy who used to manage a multi-million dollar company, who can't find work at 50% of his past salary and refuses to flip burgers at your local shake shack? a lot of people refuse to accept jobs below what they are worth and are living off the system until everything shakes down or blows up.

oh and to get back on topic: james harrison is still a roided-out ape.

Vagitron

Zombo said:

Let's give credit where credit is due.

Roidison was spot on about Big Ben:

"Hey, at least throw a pick on their side of the field instead of asking the D to bail you out again," Harrison said. "Or hand the ball off and stop trying to act like Peyton Manning. You ain't that and you know it, man; you just get paid like he does."

Roids must be like a truth serum for the barely evolved.

Zombo

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/kerry_byrne/07/20/peyton-manning-ben-roethlisberger/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t13_a2

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/22526/harrison%E2%80%99s-wrong-about-roethlisberger

Vagitron

Zombo said:

I'm not clicking your links and ending up on some gay porn site. What's your point?

Zombo

Click the links. Directly refutes your previous statement and in handed fashion. Ben also isn't asked to be Peyton Manning but he's a VERY capable passer and one of the best in the league. The links just reaffirm that or you could play it off like I posted porn links. We both know you clicked each.

Vagitron

Zombo said:

Ben is no Peyton Manning. There is no link in the world that could change my mind.

If Manning had had the Steelers defense the past decade he would probably own four or five rings.

Peyton is the greatest QB of our generation. Ben is just a guy on a good team. That rapes.

Zombo

Peyton Manning is a great QB but he's also one of the biggest choke artists in the league. Give Ben a solid offensive line and the Steelers have another two rings. His stats also show EXACTLY the opposite of what you claim but hey those stats must be wrong. lol

Vagitron

mikeyP72 said:

How do his stats show the opposite? He has 2 rings.

Zombo said Peyton would have 4 or 5 with the Steelers team. Without a doubt that is true. His defense was swiss cheese last year and the Colts didn't suffer. With a defense? Forget about it.

How can you say without a doubt that is true? Do you see how often Ben has to evade a sack over the course of the season. Do you honestly think Peyton Manning could and would do the same? Manning would be on his back a lot with our offensive line. Pouncey was a revelation and thank god for Sean Kugler because he allowed our patch work o-line to work. He was arguably the best acquisition for the Steelers last year. Peyton Manning would not have 4 or 5 rings. Downplaying how good Ben actually is, is also ignorant. I don't expect anyone to agree. We are on a Browns board after all.

jrb12711

homo, I've said and have said for years that stats are not indicative of a QB's worth. Yea I'll admit it can help a lot, but there's so many factors that go into a QB's development. Whether or not you would admit it, Ben came into an AMAZING situation for pittsburgh. The first 3 years he was there he had an amazing run game, almost unstoppable defense and a HOF coach. He wasn't asked to do much at all for his first ring and you know that. I'll admit without a doubt he's a top 10 QB in the league, but those stats in those articles don't tell the whole tale. If you would even put Ben as a QB in the same breath as Peyton you would be straight up crazy. The way he understands and plays the game is something frankly I don't the league had ever seen before him. Ben is a good, solid QB who does play clutch. But come on, don't look at a couple slanted stats here

The one that pisses me off more than anything is the YPA. Manning for years has played the short to intermediate game with clark and wayne. They run slants and stick routes about as much as any team in the league. The past 2-3 years Ben has been airing it out to Wallace spreading the ball in general. I also hate the damn TD-INT ratio. It doesn't show game by game stats which is stupid if you really think about it. I can vividly remember Peyton one year throwing 6 ints, and throwing 5 in another. Which means if you take out one bad game the stats are completely different. And to top that all off, ben missing four games could clearly have changed his stats for the worse. They played some pretty good damn teams those first four weeks. Facts are facts, but they DON'T always tell the whole tale.

Vagitron

@jrb12711 said:

homo, I've said and have said for years that stats are not indicative of a QB's worth. Yea I'll admit it can help a lot, but there's so many factors that go into a QB's development. Whether or not you would admit it, Ben came into an AMAZING situation for pittsburgh. The first 3 years he was there he had an amazing run game, almost unstoppable defense and a HOF coach. He wasn't asked to do much at all for his first ring and you know that. I'll admit without a doubt he's a top 10 QB in the league, but those stats in those articles don't tell the whole tale. If you would even put Ben as a QB in the same breath as Peyton you would be straight up crazy. The way he understands and plays the game is something frankly I don't the league had ever seen before him. Ben is a good, solid QB who does play clutch. But come on, don't look at a couple slanted stats here

The one that pisses me off more than anything is the YPA. Manning for years has played the short to intermediate game with clark and wayne. They run slants and stick routes about as much as any team in the league. The past 2-3 years Ben has been airing it out to Wallace spreading the ball in general. I also hate the damn TD-INT ratio. It doesn't show game by game stats which is stupid if you really think about it. I can vividly remember Peyton one year throwing 6 ints, and throwing 5 in another. Which means if you take out one bad game the stats are completely different. And to top that all off, ben missing four games could clearly have changed his stats for the worse. They played some pretty good damn teams those first four weeks. Facts are facts, but they DON'T always tell the whole tale.

Ben has been leading the YPA category for a good long while, well before Mike Wallace so your argument above is pretty bunk. Yards per attempt is actually a pretty good statistic and one used more routinely to measure the success of a QB. Ben isn't asked to throw the ball 50 times a game but is more than capable and to say he's not in the same league is ignorant. If he were asked to throw it 50 times a game and had a offensive line that was consistent like Manning he'd put up much larger numbers. As it stands he's a winner and in my eyes that's the most important stat. If I started a franchise tomorrow I'd take Ben over Manning 10 times out of 10. His versatility, mobility, his deep ball accuracy and his poise in the pocket when there is one is up there with the greats. He just doesn't put up the gawdy fantasy football type numbers. I could post a whole bunch of other statistics, arguments supporting my stance but I'll refrain because opinions are like a$$holes, everybody has one. Unfortunately for you my opinion is shared across the entire NFL. Ben is the real deal and the REASON we've gotten to 3 super bowls.

jrb12711

It just really does humor me how you can hide behind stats as if they tells black and white a QB's worth. Just let me ask you a few hypothetical questions and just give your me honest, hopefully unbiased opinion

1. Do you think Ben reaches 3 super bowls without a defense that has consistently ranked top 5 in the league since he's been in?

2. Do you think Ben is as good of a QB without learning under a HOF and all time great coach when he entered the league?

3. Do you think Ben has as much success early in his career without a HOF running back and above average WR's?

I clearly stated I think he's a good QB. but manning came from NOTHING in indy and made that team great. Ben didn't have to make the steelers, the steelers made him. THAT'S exactly why Manning is and always will be known through history as a better QB

nickers

Homotron said:

Ben has been leading the YPA category for a good long while, well before Mike Wallace so your argument above is pretty bunk. Yards per attempt is actually a pretty good statistic and one used more routinely to measure the success of a QB. Ben isn't asked to throw the ball 50 times a game but is more than capable and to say he's not in the same league is ignorant. If he were asked to throw it 50 times a game and had a offensive line that was consistent like Manning he'd put up much larger numbers. As it stands he's a winner and in my eyes that's the most important stat. If I started a franchise tomorrow I'd take Ben over Manning 10 times out of 10. His versatility, mobility, his deep ball accuracy and his poise in the pocket when there is one is up there with the greats. He just doesn't put up the gawdy fantasy football type numbers. I could post a whole bunch of other statistics, arguments supporting my stance but I'll refrain because opinions are like a$$holes, everybody has one. Unfortunately for you my opinion is shared across the entire NFL. Ben is the real deal and the REASON we've gotten to 3 super bowls.

You ask any GM hands down who they would build a team around and I guarantee you they all, or most all of them would pick Manning. Ben is a good QB, theres no arguing that. But he's not Joe Montana and for My money...not even Steve young for that matter. I'll tell you what. Not being biased. Id take Brian Sipe over Ben simply because he had the innate ability to flat out read defenses and did it with pretty good,not great WR's. Yes, Dave Logan and Reggie Rucker were good WR's and Ozzy Newscome was an outstanding Pass catching TE. Our Oline was barely as good and maybe a tad less capable than the one your team has now, (back in the late 70's early 80's). Ben makes his living mostly on broken down plays, unlike Manning, who is a "CONSISTENT" passer!. Manning is ten times as accurate as Ben as a passer. Bens percentage completion might look better only because he's not asked to throw the ball as much. 90% of Indy's offense is a "passing offense" meaning they are a "Throw first offense" Unlike the stoolers wich is "Run first,play good defense" And with Bens history of "Off the field issues". I doubt any GM/Owner would gamble on Ben right now, Unless he's Dan Snyder or Jerry Jones. Your sadly grasping at straws Kiddo!. I'll say this...Ben cant even kiss Aaron Rodgers jock as far as QBing goes. Rodgers is already better than Gay Ben...LOL!...Its true and you know it!

Here...Peyton still had more yards overall goofball.

Quarterback Rating Leaders - Qualified

RK PLAYER TEAM ATT COMP PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G

1 Tom Brady, QB NE 492 324 65.9 3,900 7.93 79 36 4 25 111.0 244

2 Philip Rivers, QB SD 541 357 66.0 4,710 8.71 59 30 13 38 101.8 294

3 Aaron Rodgers, QB GB 475 312 65.7 3,922 8.26 86 28 11 31 101.2 261

4 Michael Vick, QB PHI 372 233 62.6 3,018 8.11 91 21 6 34 100.2 252

5 Ben Roethlisberger, QB PIT 389 240 61.7 3,200 8.23 56 17 5 32 97.0 267

6 Josh Freeman, QB TB 474 291 61.4 3,451 7.28 64 25 6 28 95.9 216

7 Joe Flacco, QB BAL 489 306 62.6 3,622 7.41 67 25 10 40 93.6 226

8 Matt Cassel, QB KC 450 262 58.2 3,116 6.92 75 27 7 26 93.0 208

9 Matt Schaub, QB HOU 574 365 63.6 4,370 7.61 60 24 12 32 92.0 273

10 Peyton Manning, QB IND 679 450 66.3 4,700 6.92 73 33 17 16 91.9 294

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating

Nw220

Damn i knew Steeler fans were biased but to admit you'd really rather have Ben over Manning is just crazy,put down the pipe my friend.

jrb12711

another thing I forgot to add to my earlier post is something I hear against peyton all the time which makes me laugh. This argument of "Peyton can't handle the rush and doesn't know what to do when the play breaks down" Guess what folks? Peyton is so damn good that a play RARELY breaks down for him. He doesn't get sacked ever because he knows where the defense is going to be at all times and knows where to throw the ball, period. Trust me, with his limited mobility he would get sacked 2x as much if that wasn't the case. So yea, Ben may be better at "broken plays", but Peyton doesn't need to hardly worry about that because he knows what the defense is doing beforehand. There's a big difference to understand there.