Free Agents
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Zombo said:
Jake, I like your fire, You are going to be a great new longtime addition to the board.
As one of the Over 45 (but just barely!) crowd, I can let you know where I'm coming from:
As an experienced Browns fans that has seen things work and seen things fail with your entire heart on the line each year, you begin to get a good sense of when you are being bullshitted and the Browns Brass has no real plan, and when you are seeing the real deal.
I honestly think we seeing the Real Deal now with Holmgren to Heckert to Shurmur on down to McCoy.
I never warmed up to Butch Davis, never felt confident in Romeo. Hated Dwight Clark, doubted Phil Savage. Never bought into Charlie Frye, had no man love for Brady Quinn. I rooted for them all ... but I just hoped ... I never said "Look out ... here we come."
Now I am saying "Look out ... here we come."
Holmgren is a champion, a strong leader, and most importantly he has a "way". Not just a guy happy to have a chance to run a franchise, but a guy who has a way of doing things and is going to do them.
Heckert pulled off our first real blockbuster draft since before '99 last year, and I think he may have done it again this year. He drafted solidly every year in a solid, winning organization in Philly ... the man knows what he is doing.
Shurmur is going to give this team something it has really lacked since 1999: an offensive identitiy. We are going to be a West Coast passing-style offense, we are going to draft players for the West Coast passing-style offense, and we are not going to look at free agents unless they can play well in the West Coast passing-style offense. Bout time we knew what what we doing offensively.
McCoy is the real key, because it come downs to the talent, and if you don't have it at QB you're ... well, you're Miami. Colt is the most accurate thrower we have had since Bernie, but he drills it with more mustard and confidence than even Bernie. "Accuracy" isn't just completing the pass, it's putting the ball exactly where it needs to be so the receiver can make a play, and get yards after the catch. Colt is perfect for this offense and fits the Leader role as well. I just love the kid. I couldn't warm up to Fry or Quinn, and I never trusted Anderson ... but I am tying my ship to Colt McCoy.
So the bottom line for me, veteran Browns fan is: If these guys think we don't need any outside help at WR, then we don't need any additional help at WR. We all know they are allowed to spend Lerner's money ... they didn't want to this year, because they like what they have and they want to see it on the field. To me, that builds even more confidence in this team.
Let 'er rip ... let's see what we've got.
Zombo
--By the way, McCoy got a glowing endorsement from none other than Steeler-fem Merril Hoge today ... a rare endorsement from him for one of ours.
Good Points there....cant respond yet after The Gippers questions this week....those were TOUGH
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Zombo said:
Jake, I like your fire, You are going to be a great new longtime addition to the board.
As one of the Over 45 (but just barely!) crowd, I can let you know where I'm coming from:
As an experienced Browns fans that has seen things work and seen things fail with your entire heart on the line each year, you begin to get a good sense of when you are being bullshitted and the Browns Brass has no real plan, and when you are seeing the real deal.
I honestly think we seeing the Real Deal now with Holmgren to Heckert to Shurmur on down to McCoy.
I never warmed up to Butch Davis, never felt confident in Romeo. Hated Dwight Clark, doubted Phil Savage. Never bought into Charlie Frye, had no man love for Brady Quinn. I rooted for them all ... but I just hoped ... I never said "Look out ... here we come."
Now I am saying "Look out ... here we come."
Holmgren is a champion, a strong leader, and most importantly he has a "way". Not just a guy happy to have a chance to run a franchise, but a guy who has a way of doing things and is going to do them.
Heckert pulled off our first real blockbuster draft since before '99 last year, and I think he may have done it again this year. He drafted solidly every year in a solid, winning organization in Philly ... the man knows what he is doing.
Shurmur is going to give this team something it has really lacked since 1999: an offensive identitiy. We are going to be a West Coast passing-style offense, we are going to draft players for the West Coast passing-style offense, and we are not going to look at free agents unless they can play well in the West Coast passing-style offense. Bout time we knew what what we doing offensively.
McCoy is the real key, because it come downs to the talent, and if you don't have it at QB you're ... well, you're Miami. Colt is the most accurate thrower we have had since Bernie, but he drills it with more mustard and confidence than even Bernie. "Accuracy" isn't just completing the pass, it's putting the ball exactly where it needs to be so the receiver can make a play, and get yards after the catch. Colt is perfect for this offense and fits the Leader role as well. I just love the kid. I couldn't warm up to Fry or Quinn, and I never trusted Anderson ... but I am tying my ship to Colt McCoy.
So the bottom line for me, veteran Browns fan is: If these guys think we don't need any outside help at WR, then we don't need any additional help at WR. We all know they are allowed to spend Lerner's money ... they didn't want to this year, because they like what they have and they want to see it on the field. To me, that builds even more confidence in this team.
Let 'er rip ... let's see what we've got.
Zombo
--By the way, McCoy got a glowing endorsement from none other than Steeler-fem Merril Hoge today ... a rare endorsement from him for one of ours.
Good Points there....cant respond yet after The Gippers questions this week....those were TOUGH
Good Points there....cant respond yet after The Gippers questions this week....those were TOUGH
You've yet to respond with anything of substance. It's been "we need a WR now and you're stupid if you don't believe that", yet when somebody calls you out and asks you to back up your statement with facts, you just turn on the sarcastic douchbaggery.
Your responses are those of a pre-teen. We're all Browns fans, and we like to engage in intelligent debate. Not the "my way is the highway and xxxx you if you don't agree" stance you and WRREBEL have taken.
By the way, typing in all caps to emulate sarcasm is so AOL.
xxxx my life, I can't believe I said that.
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You know guys I don't mean to offend anybody or argue, its just im such a browns fan that my passion for this damn team gets the best of me. And usually I have pretty strong opinions on subjects, theres no 50/50 with me.....but whatever the best case senario is for the browns LETS JUST GET THERE
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Good Points there....cant respond yet after The Gippers questions this week....those were TOUGH
You've yet to respond with anything of substance. It's been "we need a WR now and you're stupid if you don't believe that", yet when somebody calls you out and asks you to back up your statement with facts, you just turn on the sarcastic douchbaggery.
Your responses are those of a pre-teen. We're all Browns fans, and we like to engage in intelligent debate. Not the "my way is the highway and xxxx you if you don't agree" stance you and WRREBEL have taken.
By the way, typing in all caps to emulate sarcasm is so AOL.
xxxx my life, I can't believe I said that.
You've yet to respond with anything of substance. It's been "we need a WR now and you're stupid if you don't believe that", yet when somebody calls you out and asks you to back up your statement with facts, you just turn on the sarcastic douchbaggery.
Your responses are those of a pre-teen. We're all Browns fans, and we like to engage in intelligent debate. Not the "my way is the highway and xxxx you if you don't agree" stance you and WRREBEL have taken.
By the way, typing in all caps to emulate sarcasm is so AOL.
xxxx my life, I can't believe I said that.
Dude your a bum
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Listen, I haven't heard one good argument to why not spend some of the 24 million we have?
I understand how the salary cap floor works, my question is do you? We have 24 million we can spend this year and the money doesn't role over to the next.
So tell me, u brain washed losers, why not spend it??? Why not bring in the best and most talented guys to compete even if just a one year deal??
Oh I forgot were gonna Retard the growth of players like robiske... haha such a joke...
Tim couch pulls out "riddle me that"
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Zombo, last year I had the same argument about wrs and not signing any in the off season..
I called you and a couple people out midway through the season and you changed ur tune, saying u also wanted us to sign a wr in the off season.
Let there be no confusion this year by week 6 or 7 when I do the same thing..
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Listen, I haven't heard one good argument to why not spend some of the 24 million we have?
I understand how the salary cap floor works, my question is do you? We have 24 million we can spend this year and the money doesn't role over to the next.
So tell me, u brain washed losers, why not spend it??? Why not bring in the best and most talented guys to compete even if just a one year deal??
Oh I forgot were gonna Retard the growth of players like robiske... haha such a joke...
Tim couch pulls out "riddle me that"
Listen, I haven't heard one good argument to why not spend some of the 24 million we have?
I understand how the salary cap floor works, my question is do you? We have 24 million we can spend this year and the money doesn't role over to the next.
So tell me, u brain washed losers, why not spend it??? Why not bring in the best and most talented guys to compete even if just a one year deal??
Oh I forgot were gonna Retard the growth of players like robiske... haha such a joke...
Tim couch pulls out "riddle me that"
Because we're not giving away $24 million this year to a couple of washed up bums on a one year deals. See: Bengals- Terrell Owens= FAIL. Put the shoe on the other foot- why waste it on guys that probably won't or can't win you any more games?
So last year, we bring in your big name stud WR (and if you think it was gonna be Anquan Boldin, put down the crack pipe) that wins us one more game and we miss out on the nice fat trade with Atlanta.
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Zombo, last year I had the same argument about wrs and not signing any in the off season..
I called you and a couple people out midway through the season and you changed ur tune, saying u also wanted us to sign a wr in the off season.
Let there be no confusion this year by week 6 or 7 when I do the same thing..
Zombo, last year I had the same argument about wrs and not signing any in the off season..
I called you and a couple people out midway through the season and you changed ur tune, saying u also wanted us to sign a wr in the off season.
Let there be no confusion this year by week 6 or 7 when I do the same thing..
Go ahead. My crystal ball says only Syd Rice (who would have wanted a Jerry Rice deal to come to Cleveland- ditto Santana Moss) and Braylon Edwards (who would rather be boiled in oil than to come back and play for the Browns) are the only ones in this FA class with a chance of having decent seasons.
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You've yet to respond with anything of substance. It's been "we need a WR now and you're stupid if you don't believe that", yet when somebody calls you out and asks you to back up your statement with facts, you just turn on the sarcastic douchbaggery.
Your responses are those of a pre-teen. We're all Browns fans, and we like to engage in intelligent debate. Not the "my way is the highway and xxxx you if you don't agree" stance you and WRREBEL have taken.
By the way, typing in all caps to emulate sarcasm is so AOL.
xxxx my life, I can't believe I said that.
Dude your a bum
Dude your a bum
Point proven. Thank you.
Listen, I haven't heard one good argument to why not spend some of the 24 million we have?
I understand how the salary cap floor works, my question is do you? We have 24 million we can spend this year and the money doesn't role over to the next.
So tell me, u brain washed losers, why not spend it??? Why not bring in the best and most talented guys to compete even if just a one year deal??
Oh I forgot were gonna Retard the growth of players like robiske... haha such a joke...
Tim couch pulls out "riddle me that"
Because the FO is confident in our young receivers that they'll develop into viable receiving threats. You can say it's a joke all you want, but that is the reason.
First off, no receiver in his prime that's worth his chalk is going to sign a one year deal to a team that hasn't been a contender in a decade. These one year deals you're seeing are the result of washed up vets looking to get a ring before they retire. They're sure as hell not going to be coming to Cleveland for that with the track record we have since the expansion.
Say we did land a "big time playmaker" (read: a name that people recognize that you can brag about to your friends who aren't real football fans) to a one year deal, spending up that $24 million this year that's pissing you off. That player, in a best case scenario, comes in a puts up a 1,400 yd and 10 TD season. The odds of him leading us to a Super Bowl himself are slim to none. Don't believe me? Ask Ocho how many rings he won in Cincinnati. How many rings has Brandon Marshall won in his career? But that's okay, because our playmaker has earned himself a nice Pro Bowl nod, which looks good on the resume.
Then...he's gone. What about next season? We've got two options:
Option #1- If we want to resign him, he's going to demand "playmaker" money. Money that will be taken away from our FA's...FA's like Joe Thomas, Peyton Hillis, Ahtyba Rubin, D'Qwell Jackson, Chris Gocong, Evan Moore, and Phil Dawson. No doubt his "playmaker" money is going to interfere with a couple of those FA starters.
What's the answer then? Do we not resign some key starters? Say we don't resign D'Qwell, Gocong, and Rubin (since those contracts together would probably equal the "playmaker's" desired new contract). That's three defensive starters that we'll now need to address in FA next year, from an already seemingly weak defense. Now we'll have to go sign some bargain basement starters as a band-aid just so we can put together a 53 man roster, and stay under the cap while doing it. Now our defense has taken yet another step back, but it's okay... we've got our "playmaker". As we have learned from all of the great Dan Snyder-led Redskin dynasties- it's one man that makes up a football team.
Option #2- We don't resign him, and let him go get picked up somewhere else. We've now wasted a developmental year for our young WR's. That's anywhere from 70-100 catches that our WR's have lost out on, simply because we needed a "playmaker" for one year. Now, we're back to where we started. Do we try and sign another aging vet "playmaker", simply to go through the same process again? Or do we finally give our WR's a chance to develop, now that having a "playmaker" proved to be useless in building a successful team.
And that's assuming the "playmaker" we sign puts up great numbers. More than likely, he just comes in and puts together a mediocre season, gets his paycheck and retires or moves on to the next team gullible enough to fall for his agent's sweet talk.
Sometimes I wonder what goes through people's heads.
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Again for anyone who knows how the salary cap works, 24 million. Yes some can be used to re sign players we currently have. But not as much as you think. when you look at this year salary of being 24. What do you think happens next year? We will be about 60 to 70 million under the cap with our current contracts..
If u have money you spend it.. mike simms walker 1 year deal would have been fine. Malcolm floyd signed a 2 year deal.
And syndey rice went to seattle, so I'm pretty sure he would have come to cleveland.
Last year if we had boldin we win at least 3 more games. Both the ravens games for sure and probably the jets, tamba bay and kansas city games.
What ever, ur brain washed into thinking this is the best thing for our franchise. What ever makes u sleep better, right? I use to be the same way, then I found out I was a man and could have my own opionion.
Come see me week 6, when I can say... neiner, niener , niener. U don't have a weiner
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Imma browns fan that was born and raised in Steelers country.....my maternal family is all from Youngstown/findlay
If you were born in either Youngstown or Findlay you certainly were NOT born in Steeler country.
Youngstown is in Ohio and is still predominately Browns oriented...though, yes, because it is halfway between Cleve. and Pitt. there is a large minority of Steeler fans, many of whom are probably FRAKS who if the tables were turned would all of a sudden become Browns fans.
And Findlay is in north central Ohio about equidistant from Cleveland and Detroit, but from my understanding is almost pure Browns country.
Yes, they have their native son playing for the Steelers, and naturally a town is going to have an affinity for their native son...alleged rapist or not. But it is still a Browns town.
I mean, just because Alliance had a Super Bowl winning QB come from that town (Len Dawson) doesn't mean that Alliance is Kansas City Chief country. Just because Stow, Ohio had a native son win a Super Bowl MVP (Larry Csonka) doesn't make Stow "Dolphin country".
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Again for anyone who knows how the salary cap works, 24 million. Yes some can be used to re sign players we currently have. But not as much as you think. when you look at this year salary of being 24. What do you think happens next year? We will be about 60 to 70 million under the cap with our current contracts..
If u have money you spend it.. mike simms walker 1 year deal would have been fine. Malcolm floyd signed a 2 year deal.
And syndey rice went to seattle, so I'm pretty sure he would have come to cleveland.
Last year if we had boldin we win at least 3 more games. Both the ravens games for sure and probably the jets, tamba bay and kansas city games.
What ever, ur brain washed into thinking this is the best thing for our franchise. What ever makes u sleep better, right? I use to be the same way, then I found out I was a man and could have my own opionion.
Come see me week 6, when I can say... neiner, niener , niener. U don't have a weiner
Again for anyone who knows how the salary cap works, 24 million. Yes some can be used to re sign players we currently have. But not as much as you think. when you look at this year salary of being 24. What do you think happens next year? We will be about 60 to 70 million under the cap with our current contracts..
If u have money you spend it.. mike simms walker 1 year deal would have been fine. Malcolm floyd signed a 2 year deal.
And syndey rice went to seattle, so I'm pretty sure he would have come to cleveland.
Last year if we had boldin we win at least 3 more games. Both the ravens games for sure and probably the jets, tamba bay and kansas city games.
What ever, ur brain washed into thinking this is the best thing for our franchise. What ever makes u sleep better, right? I use to be the same way, then I found out I was a man and could have my own opionion.
Come see me week 6, when I can say... neiner, niener , niener. U don't have a weiner
You're acting like $24 million is Monopoly money- hate to tell you in the real world- it isn't.
Rice is getting playmaker money sonny. Can I call you a bozo if his hip injury puts him on IR, and Seattle just paid him $8 million to soak in a tub?
If, if if. Boldin wasn't coming to Cleveland, regardless of what we offered him. Same deal like Asomugah this year- experienced vet at the top of his game- why go to a run down franchise, when you have your pick of contending teams to play for?
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Imma browns fan that was born and raised in Steelers country.....my maternal family is all from Youngstown/findlay
If you were born in either Youngstown or Findlay you certainly were NOT born in Steeler country.
Youngstown is in Ohio and is still predominately Browns oriented...though, yes, because it is halfway between Cleve. and Pitt. there is a large minority of Steeler fans, many of whom are probably FRAKS who if the tables were turned would all of a sudden become Browns fans.
And Findlay is in north central Ohio about equidistant from Cleveland and Detroit, but from my understanding is almost pure Browns country.
Yes, they have their native son playing for the Steelers, and naturally a town is going to have an affinity for their native son...alleged rapist or not. But it is still a Browns town.
I mean, just because Alliance had a Super Bowl winning QB come from that town (Len Dawson) doesn't mean that Alliance is Kansas City Chief country. Just because Stow, Ohio had a native son win a Super Bowl MVP (Larry Csonka) doesn't make Stow "Dolphin country".
Imma browns fan that was born and raised in Steelers country.....my maternal family is all from Youngstown/findlay
If you were born in either Youngstown or Findlay you certainly were NOT born in Steeler country.
Youngstown is in Ohio and is still predominately Browns oriented...though, yes, because it is halfway between Cleve. and Pitt. there is a large minority of Steeler fans, many of whom are probably FRAKS who if the tables were turned would all of a sudden become Browns fans.
And Findlay is in north central Ohio about equidistant from Cleveland and Detroit, but from my understanding is almost pure Browns country.
Yes, they have their native son playing for the Steelers, and naturally a town is going to have an affinity for their native son...alleged rapist or not. But it is still a Browns town.
I mean, just because Alliance had a Super Bowl winning QB come from that town (Len Dawson) doesn't mean that Alliance is Kansas City Chief country. Just because Stow, Ohio had a native son win a Super Bowl MVP (Larry Csonka) doesn't make Stow "Dolphin country".
Youngstown is definitely not steeler's country! Yes' there have always been Steeler fans there but the majority are Browns fans or at least they once were. Back when the Browns were making deep playoff runs the area was totally backing the browns even after so much success by the steelers.
I ironically though it is a Pittsburgh Penguins town.
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Imma browns fan that was born and raised in Steelers country.....my maternal family is all from Youngstown/findlay
If you were born in either Youngstown or Findlay you certainly were NOT born in Steeler country.
Youngstown is in Ohio and is still predominately Browns oriented...though, yes, because it is halfway between Cleve. and Pitt. there is a large minority of Steeler fans, many of whom are probably FRAKS who if the tables were turned would all of a sudden become Browns fans.
And Findlay is in north central Ohio about equidistant from Cleveland and Detroit, but from my understanding is almost pure Browns country.
Yes, they have their native son playing for the Steelers, and naturally a town is going to have an affinity for their native son...alleged rapist or not. But it is still a Browns town.
I mean, just because Alliance had a Super Bowl winning QB come from that town (Len Dawson) doesn't mean that Alliance is Kansas City Chief country. Just because Stow, Ohio had a native son win a Super Bowl MVP (Larry Csonka) doesn't make Stow "Dolphin country".
Youngstown is definitely not steeler's country! Yes' there have always been Steeler fans there but the majority are Browns fans or at least they once were. Back when the Browns were making deep playoff runs the area was totally backing the browns even after so much success by the steelers.
I ironically though it is a Pittsburgh Penguins town.
Youngstown is definitely not steeler's country! Yes' there have always been Steeler fans there but the majority are Browns fans or at least they once were. Back when the Browns were making deep playoff runs the area was totally backing the browns even after so much success by the steelers.
I ironically though it is a Pittsburgh Penguins town.
Well, Cleveland has no NHL team, and the Penquins have been a succesful operation, winning 3 titles in the last 20 years I believe. And Y-town is only about 50 miles away, so it may be natural.
Question, since you appear to be from that area: what about Indians vs. Pirates?
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I realize it wasn't particularly clear....but I grew up in clarion county pa....an hour and a half north of Pitt on I80. I currently live in Pitt. My maternal family from Ohio...who all still reside there....is responsible for my difference in team preference.
If I turn on the TV, I have to watch Steelers....I go to a party, I have to watch the Steelers....all my friends but 2 are Steeler fans. It is what it is.
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Zombo, tim couch pulls out and the rest who don't feel like a free agent wr was needed this year.
I will shut my mouth for now... and trust me I hope I'm wrong! I hope by week 6 all of u can tell me what an idiot I was.. being wrong would be the best case scenario here...
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Youngstown is definitely not steeler's country! Yes' there have always been Steeler fans there but the majority are Browns fans or at least they once were. Back when the Browns were making deep playoff runs the area was totally backing the browns even after so much success by the steelers.
I ironically though it is a Pittsburgh Penguins town.
Well, Cleveland has no NHL team, and the Penquins have been a succesful operation, winning 3 titles in the last 20 years I believe. And Y-town is only about 50 miles away, so it may be natural.
Question, since you appear to be from that area: what about Indians vs. Pirates?
Well, Cleveland has no NHL team, and the Penquins have been a succesful operation, winning 3 titles in the last 20 years I believe. And Y-town is only about 50 miles away, so it may be natural.
Question, since you appear to be from that area: what about Indians vs. Pirates?
Me? Former Jr. Pen and Penquins season ticket holder. Pirates with a soft spot for the Tribe.
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Zombo, tim couch pulls out and the rest who don't feel like a free agent wr was needed this year.
I will shut my mouth for now... and trust me I hope I'm wrong! I hope by week 6 all of u can tell me what an idiot I was.. being wrong would be the best case scenario here...
Zombo, tim couch pulls out and the rest who don't feel like a free agent wr was needed this year.
I will shut my mouth for now... and trust me I hope I'm wrong! I hope by week 6 all of u can tell me what an idiot I was.. being wrong would be the best case scenario here...
I don't need to wait until week 6 to call you an idiot.
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