Phil Savage fired
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There ya have it.
So long Krispy Kreme. -
This is a good day Larry.......Sewage proved he stank right from the beginning and methinks Romeo just gave up
We are one good management team from perennial success be happy
Offense Wins.......Franchise QB's are the key.............Defense keeps you in the game.........Go Buckeyes -
This is a good day Larry.......Sewage proved he stank right from the beginning and methinks Romeo just gave up
We are one good management team from perennial success be happy
This is a good day Larry.......Sewage proved he stank right from the beginning and methinks Romeo just gave up
We are one good management team from perennial success be happy
Rich, As the most out-spoken on the subject to fire these two, who do you want us to replace Crennel & Savage with?
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This is a good day Larry.......Sewage proved he stank right from the beginning and methinks Romeo just gave up
We are one good management team from perennial success be happy
This is a good day Larry.......Sewage proved he stank right from the beginning and methinks Romeo just gave up
We are one good management team from perennial success be happy
Rich, Crennell should have been fired weeks ago for letting the team quit. And I'll lay that on Phil for not pulling the trigger. I don't share your total disdain for Savage. At least Savage didn't totally screw up his high picks, but he got about nada out of his low ones.
Phil will probably wind up back in Baltimore and Krispy Kreme will go back to fetching doughnuts for Bill B.
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Larry, today was a good day we cleaned house which was needed but.........to follow your thoughts .......Which high pick of Sewage is a stud...........and remember the measures are scoring on offense and pounding and intimidating on D........
I cannot think of one high pick at the moment that is more than ordinary including Joe Thomas
Offense Wins.......Franchise QB's are the key.............Defense keeps you in the game.........Go Buckeyes -
And there was much rejoicing!
I never liked RAC, and I am so FREAKING glad that PoS is outta here!
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I'll go on record saying I'm disappointed. I feel that Savage did a great job bringing in players and managing the cap. I really like the guy. I admit he had a few slip-ups, but I didn't want to see him gone. I could see a reduced roll, but not completely gone. Partially because with both he and Crennel going, it's now a complete re-build. I felt Savage needed a chance to prove his talent evaluation under a new coaching regime. We'll see Savage get a new job somewhere else, and we'll see him bring talent into that organization as well. I truly believe that.
The move makes me question Lerner more than ever. I really hope it works out, though. I hope some of these crazy rumors start coming through really fast.
I'll go on record saying I'm disappointed. I feel that Savage did a great job bringing in players and managing the cap. I really like the guy. I admit he had a few slip-ups, but I didn't want to see him gone. I could see a reduced roll, but not completely gone. Partially because with both he and Crennel going, it's now a complete re-build. I felt Savage needed a chance to prove his talent evaluation under a new coaching regime. We'll see Savage get a new job somewhere else, and we'll see him bring talent into that organization as well. I truly believe that.
Great post. I share a lot of your feelings about this.
People should realize that this move wasn't about Savage's ability to scout & bring in talent. As Tony Grossi reported, it was more about Savage's communication skills and leadership abilities (or lack thereof).
I don't expect our drafts to get much better now that we've switched GM's. The people who've been complaining about Savage drafting Wimbley, D'Qwell, and Travis Wilson in 2006 should realize (as Tupa once pointed out) that Pioli drafted Laurence Maroney, Chad Jackson, and David Thomas that same year. Chad Jackson's been cut, Maroney's rumored to be on the chopping block, and Thomas has 21 career catches. Is that a better draft than Savage's?
A major reason for the Pats' recent success has been a series of brilliant trades. They got Wes Welker for a 2nd and 7th, and traded a late Round 1 pick in '07 for what turned out to be Randy Moss & Jerod Mayo. Though I didn't like the Corey Williams trade, the Shaun Rogers deal definitely qualifies for the same level of brilliance as Pioli's moves (at least the Welker deal).
The one way in which our drafts may end up being better is that we'll have closer coordination between the coach & GM on what kinds of players to bring in. Reports surfaced recently that Crennel didn't want Beau Bell; we had reports in camp that the coaching staff thought Corey Williams was a bust in their system; we drafted two late-round DE's in '07 that weren't at all fits for Romeo's fat guy 3-4 scheme.
If Lerner thought any deeper than "Savage is a jerk and doesn't manage well; I have to fire him," I suspect he came to the conclusion that demoting him would only perpetuate this disconnect between the players we draft & the scheme the new GM & coach plan to employ.
That may be why he's looking for a more integrated approach this time around: either Cowher in control of everything or Pioli running the show.
Ultimately, I think that's the smart thing to do, but I am a little disappointed that Savage didn't end up a success here. His '07 draft class converged on excellence - getting a franchise LT, QB, and two starting corners in the same draft is amazing. And had he gotten Desmond Bishop in Round 6, I suspect we wouldn't be talking about drafting Aaron Curry right now.
He displayed some serious PR & maturity issues, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him re-emerge a la Belichick as a great GM some day. He's only 43 years old, so he can bide his time as a scouting director for a couple years & end up landing a good job elsewhere.
I sincerely hope that happens...as long as he does it outside our division.
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This is a good day Larry.......Sewage proved he stank right from the beginning and methinks Romeo just gave up
We are one good management team from perennial success be happy
Rich, As the most out-spoken on the subject to fire these two, who do you want us to replace Crennel & Savage with?
Rich, As the most out-spoken on the subject to fire these two, who do you want us to replace Crennel & Savage with?
I'll chime in- Pioli. Does Marty know how to scout? I haven't forgotten Mike Junkin.
If Cowher won't take the job (I predict he won't) Kirk Ferentz or Urban Meyer, or how about Bob Stoops (he's a Buckeye) out of the college ranks? I've seen enough of Tressell that I doubt he'd be successful as a pro coach, and he'd never leave OSU anyway- he's got tenure there for life.
I flat out humbly profess my ignorance to not even dare suggest how any assistant NFL coaches might turn out, and other than Marty or Cowher, no HC retreads please- they rarely work- Coughlin being the glaring exception to the rule.
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Larry, today was a good day we cleaned house which was needed but.........to follow your thoughts .......Which high pick of Sewage is a stud...........and remember the measures are scoring on offense and pounding and intimidating on D........
I cannot think of one high pick at the moment that is more than ordinary including Joe Thomas
Larry, today was a good day we cleaned house which was needed but.........to follow your thoughts .......Which high pick of Sewage is a stud...........and remember the measures are scoring on offense and pounding and intimidating on D........
I cannot think of one high pick at the moment that is more than ordinary including Joe Thomas
We've yet to see what Quinn can do Rich- more than anything else that got me off the Crennell train. Like it or not Thomas is going to the Pro Bowl again- I agree that JT had a down year, but I'll attribute that to a sophmore slump, a hurt Eric Steinbach next to him that he had to cover for, and horrendous non-adjustments by Chud. NOBODY can block 2-3 guys on a consistent basis.
Kam Wimbley has one more year to prove he's not a bust- ditto that for Braylon Edwards. BTW, Edwards was way up there in the stats for ypc. If he can ever learn to hang onto the ball with any consistency, he'll be in Hawaii ever February.
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Congrats to the Brownies for getting rid of the best GM you guys have had since the move.
Maybe you'll find another Butch Davis to run the team into the ground.
Keep wiping the slate clean, and you wonder why you guys have had zero success since coming back.
I remember reading all these articles last year about how important it was to have continuity in the organization.
Whoops.
11 in a row. -
I agree with what you said Larry...............and in essence it was you agreed with me.............I still firmly believe Sewage fed Crennel garbage........until it overwhelmed him and yes indeed he gave up end of this year..........
NO excuses for Crennel......he never should have been hired
But if Bill Polian was GM even Crennel would have been winning at year end
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I'll go on record saying I'm disappointed. I feel that Savage did a great job bringing in players and managing the cap. I really like the guy. I admit he had a few slip-ups, but I didn't want to see him gone. I could see a reduced roll, but not completely gone. Partially because with both he and Crennel going, it's now a complete re-build. I felt Savage needed a chance to prove his talent evaluation under a new coaching regime. We'll see Savage get a new job somewhere else, and we'll see him bring talent into that organization as well. I truly believe that.
Great post. I share a lot of your feelings about this.
People should realize that this move wasn't about Savage's ability to scout & bring in talent. As Tony Grossi reported, it was more about Savage's communication skills and leadership abilities (or lack thereof).
I don't expect our drafts to get much better now that we've switched GM's. The people who've been complaining about Savage drafting Wimbley, D'Qwell, and Travis Wilson in 2006 should realize (as Tupa once pointed out) that Pioli drafted Laurence Maroney, Chad Jackson, and David Thomas that same year. Chad Jackson's been cut, Maroney's rumored to be on the chopping block, and Thomas has 21 career catches. Is that a better draft than Savage's?
A major reason for the Pats' recent success has been a series of brilliant trades. They got Wes Welker for a 2nd and 7th, and traded a late Round 1 pick in '07 for what turned out to be Randy Moss & Jerod Mayo. Though I didn't like the Corey Williams trade, the Shaun Rogers deal definitely qualifies for the same level of brilliance as Pioli's moves (at least the Welker deal).
The one way in which our drafts may end up being better is that we'll have closer coordination between the coach & GM on what kinds of players to bring in. Reports surfaced recently that Crennel didn't want Beau Bell; we had reports in camp that the coaching staff thought Corey Williams was a bust in their system; we drafted two late-round DE's in '07 that weren't at all fits for Romeo's fat guy 3-4 scheme.
If Lerner thought any deeper than "Savage is a jerk and doesn't manage well; I have to fire him," I suspect he came to the conclusion that demoting him would only perpetuate this disconnect between the players we draft & the scheme the new GM & coach plan to employ.
That may be why he's looking for a more integrated approach this time around: either Cowher in control of everything or Pioli running the show.
Ultimately, I think that's the smart thing to do, but I am a little disappointed that Savage didn't end up a success here. His '07 draft class converged on excellence - getting a franchise LT, QB, and two starting corners in the same draft is amazing. And had he gotten Desmond Bishop in Round 6, I suspect we wouldn't be talking about drafting Aaron Curry right now.
He displayed some serious PR & maturity issues, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him re-emerge a la Belichick as a great GM some day. He's only 43 years old, so he can bide his time as a scouting director for a couple years & end up landing a good job elsewhere.
I sincerely hope that happens...as long as he does it outside our division.
Aloysius said:
...I don't expect our drafts to get much better now that we've switched GM's. The people who've been complaining about Savage drafting Wimbley, D'Qwell, and Travis Wilson in 2006 should realize (as Tupa once pointed out) that Pioli drafted Laurence Maroney, Chad Jackson, and David Thomas that same year. Chad Jackson's been cut, Maroney's rumored to be on the chopping block, and Thomas has 21 career catches. Is that a better draft than Savage's?...Agree. That classs still has the potential to rival the best draft class in the history of the Browns. Terry Pluto has said the Browns were just paying their dues with Wrist and McDonald this year and expects them to further blossom next year. Thomas is a worker and will be OK. If Quinn pans out, than amazing is right.
I've read D-lineman transition slowly from college. Warren Sapp's first couple of years were average. Give Wimbley a chance. And of course give D'Quell another year.
So, its still possible Phil's drafts come out even further above average in the end.
It was the leadership and PR stuff that did him in. You're right.
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Please God no to another college coach...... seems like Jimmy Johnson was the only one that comes to mind that was successful in making that tenure.
But I understand the doubts about coordinators as well.
Personally, I would go with Cowher and Pioli... or Cowher as GM and Coach... or Schottenheimer as far as that goes.... if not, get Spags away from the Giants.
Get me Wade Phillips for DC..... Tucker sucks. Send him back to Ohio State.
Go get Mike Martz for OC.
It is the lateral moves I know cost alot.... therein lies the problem.
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I agree with what you said Larry...............and in essence it was you agreed with me.............I still firmly believe Sewage fed Crennel garbage........until it overwhelmed him and yes indeed he gave up end of this year..........
NO excuses for Crennel......he never should have been hired
But if Bill Polian was GM even Crennel would have been winning at year end
I agree with what you said Larry...............and in essence it was you agreed with me.............I still firmly believe Sewage fed Crennel garbage........until it overwhelmed him and yes indeed he gave up end of this year..........
NO excuses for Crennel......he never should have been hired
But if Bill Polian was GM even Crennel would have been winning at year end
Are you ignoring Stan? Come on, Oh Great Prognosticator. In your most excellent wisdom, who can we hire that will turn it around?
I want to make sure we have this in writing, so when you start spouting shit about how you knew so-and-so sucked, we can pull the post and own you, just like every other 'prediction' you and Ghoolie make.
My guess, you won't name anybody or someone unobtainable. You never really commit to anything, just 'generics' - like Miss Cleo. Maybe that's what I'll start calling you. And Ghoolie can be Sylvia Brown.
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@hiwaygal said:
IMO that hurt him more than anything else.Yeah, I don't think Lerner made this move because he agreed with Flugel & co about Savage's inability to find another 3-4 ILB.
From all accounts, Lerner is a decent man. This year, his
footballsoccer players are wearing jerseys that feature advertisements for a non-profit that provides care for terminally-ill children. Instead of raking in tons of cash by selling that ad space, he's using it to raise money for a worthy cause - an extremely classy move.So I'm sure Savage's bizarre, inappropriate moves put him in Lerner's dog house. Throwing RAC under the bus was an extremely selfish move, and sending that nasty e-mail probably was something that Lerner, an wannabe English aristocrat, saw as a vile breach of custom.
And as a decent man, Lerner probably saw little sense in firing RAC, a guy who doesn't seem to have a mean bone in his body, while retaining a guy whose actions have oscillated between rude and nasty.
That probably had a lot more to do with Savage's firing than any roster move he's ever made.
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Congrats to the Brownies for getting rid of the best GM you guys have had since the move.
Maybe you'll find another Butch Davis to run the team into the ground.
Keep wiping the slate clean, and you wonder why you guys have had zero success since coming back.
I remember reading all these articles last year about how important it was to have continuity in the organization.
Whoops.
Congrats to the Brownies for getting rid of the best GM you guys have had since the move.
Maybe you'll find another Butch Davis to run the team into the ground.
Keep wiping the slate clean, and you wonder why you guys have had zero success since coming back.
I remember reading all these articles last year about how important it was to have continuity in the organization.
Whoops.
Savage was probably asked to take a demotion, and refused.
As a Steeler fan, you'd probably have loved us to keep Crennell around forever- sort of like us Buckeye fans never wanted to see Lloyd Carr get the boot at at Michigan.
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I agree with what you said Larry...............and in essence it was you agreed with me.............I still firmly believe Sewage fed Crennel garbage........until it overwhelmed him and yes indeed he gave up end of this year..........
NO excuses for Crennel......he never should have been hired
But if Bill Polian was GM even Crennel would have been winning at year end
Are you ignoring Stan? Come on, Oh Great Prognosticator. In your most excellent wisdom, who can we hire that will turn it around?
I want to make sure we have this in writing, so when you start spouting shit about how you knew so-and-so sucked, we can pull the post and own you, just like every other 'prediction' you and Ghoolie make.
My guess, you won't name anybody or someone unobtainable. You never really commit to anything, just 'generics' - like Miss Cleo. Maybe that's what I'll start calling you. And Ghoolie can be Sylvia Brown.
Are you ignoring Stan? Come on, Oh Great Prognosticator. In your most excellent wisdom, who can we hire that will turn it around?
I want to make sure we have this in writing, so when you start spouting shit about how you knew so-and-so sucked, we can pull the post and own you, just like every other 'prediction' you and Ghoolie make.
My guess, you won't name anybody or someone unobtainable. You never really commit to anything, just 'generics' - like Miss Cleo. Maybe that's what I'll start calling you. And Ghoolie can be Sylvia Brown.
We need to merge these threads. I see rich named Cowher #1 (and whoever Cowher wants as GM) and Marty. Surprise, he got specific; another surprise, he also chose 'unobtanium.'
I don't think we'll get either one of these two. Cowher we'll try to get and fail (because he doesn't want to coach yet); Marty supposedly isn't on the radar and doesn't want to coach anymore.
Guess we'll have to wait and see what Sylvia and Miss Cleo's thoughts are on whomever gets hired.
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Aloysius said:
...I don't expect our drafts to get much better now that we've switched GM's. The people who've been complaining about Savage drafting Wimbley, D'Qwell, and Travis Wilson in 2006 should realize (as Tupa once pointed out) that Pioli drafted Laurence Maroney, Chad Jackson, and David Thomas that same year. Chad Jackson's been cut, Maroney's rumored to be on the chopping block, and Thomas has 21 career catches. Is that a better draft than Savage's?...Agree. That classs still has the potential to rival the best draft class in the history of the Browns. Terry Pluto has said the Browns were just paying their dues with Wrist and McDonald this year and expects them to further blossom next year. Thomas is a worker and will be OK. If Quinn pans out, than amazing is right.
I've read D-lineman transition slowly from college. Warren Sapp's first couple of years were average. Give Wimbley a chance. And of course give D'Quell another year.
So, its still possible Phil's drafts come out even further above average in the end.
It was the leadership and PR stuff that did him in. You're right.
Agree. That classs still has the potential to rival the best draft class in the history of the Browns. Terry Pluto has said the Browns were just paying their dues with Wrist and McDonald this year and expects them to further blossom next year. Thomas is a worker and will be OK. If Quinn pans out, than amazing is right.
I've read D-lineman transition slowly from college. Warren Sapp's first couple of years were average. Give Wimbley a chance. And of course give D'Quell another year.
So, its still possible Phil's drafts come out even further above average in the end.
Very true.
If we turn around things next year, I hope Savage's good drafts don't get completely forgotten (and the new FO's mistakes completely swept under the rug). It'd be like giving Gruden all the credit for winning a Super Bowl with what was basically Tony Dungy's team.
And if we end up with an even more chaotic front office-coach relationship, I'll be royally pissed.
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