People Complaining About Holmgren
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Same here. I was firmly on the Mangini train. I may have voiced my displeasure on occasion, but always reinforced the fact that I had bought into his system and thought he was doing well.
But, as we've seen recently, looking back and saying "I told you so" does absolutely nothing. Like it or not, Mangini's gone and Shurmur's here. Bemoaning the fact does nothing.
The bright side is that we landed Heckert, who has nabbed some talent in the draft...which is more than the last GM's could say.
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While I think Mangini is a good coach, he's a pretty bad drafter(david veikune in the 2nd?? robiskie? veikune might not even be on a roster anymore), so I'd still say the Browns are better off with Holmgren atm as big as his ego may be. Heckert is a good GM and drafter, I'm not a fan of Shurmur but maybe they can get an offensive coordinator.
and I also never called for Mangini to be fired, in fact I wanted him to stay as coach, but like it or not, Holmgren wasn't confident with him for whatever reason, and it's his job to make the Browns the best team possible.
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Kok was his GM during the draft...he just didn't do anything. they had little time to get a scouting dept together and get to work (same with heckert in '10). failed draft in '09? you bet....but its a collusion of circumstance imo. randy put him in a bad situation by not hiring any FO or a GM first....but he didn't do well with the hand he was dealt. yet the team showed up and at least tried to win, did a few things well. all we heard was how terrible daboll was....now we have to hear about the lack of talent.
murmur has all these "great football guys" around him and yet looks like a boy amongst men out there. holmgren/murmur will use colt as the scapegoat this year most likely, but ill go on record now and say things wont be much better next year. the O will improve slightly, but still struggle to get outta its own way. at that point, holmgren will have his feet on the fire.
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Holmgren wouldn't really care if he got fired to be honest, he'd still get paid for the rest of the contract, so he'd just stuff himself with the most luxurious food 6mil/yr(or whatever he gets paid) can offer. hahaha
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Lerner is the one who panicked and went looking for a big name to restore credibility. He didn't have the guts to stick with his decision on hiring Mangini. The biggest mistake was letting mangini hire kokinis. Actually his biggest mistake was probably hiring the coach before a new President, who should have picked the GM. Someday the real Kokinis story has got to come out doesn't it?
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Lerner is the one who panicked and went looking for a big name to restore credibility. He didn't have the guts to stick with his decision on hiring Mangini. The biggest mistake was letting mangini hire kokinis. Actually his biggest mistake was probably hiring the coach before a new President, who should have picked the GM. Someday the real Kokinis story has got to come out doesn't it?
Lerner is the one who panicked and went looking for a big name to restore credibility. He didn't have the guts to stick with his decision on hiring Mangini. The biggest mistake was letting mangini hire kokinis. Actually his biggest mistake was probably hiring the coach before a new President, who should have picked the GM. Someday the real Kokinis story has got to come out doesn't it?
Last I heard about Kokinis there was a sex scandal involving him and one of Mangini's staff members who was female. Mangini also overruled him from what I heard.
pretty sure Heckert is better(regardless of the previous fact).
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Remember about 5 games into Mangini's first season as coach? You all were bitching about the Browns getting blown out every game. You bitched so much that you forced Lerner's hand into hiring someone "credible". Well, Holmgren was the hire.
Now you all are bitching again.
Remember about 5 games into Mangini's first season as coach? You all were bitching about the Browns getting blown out every game. You bitched so much that you forced Lerner's hand into hiring someone "credible". Well, Holmgren was the hire.
Now you all are bitching again.
bullshit.
hated holmgren after seeing him carry himself like an ass blowin up on the sidelines in GB.
don't try to spin something in your favor. we all know you back holmgren and shurmur and are feeling the pressure seeing it all go down in flames.
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I hated mangini.. I couldn't imagine our offense sucking any worse under anyone else. Boy was I wrong!
This isn't an endorsement for mangini. But shurmur make mangini look like einstein.
Remember mangini drafts were god aweful.
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Mangini was a good coach I was sorry to see him go I'd think wed be in a better position if everything was the same except the coaching staff.
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No, PE is right. This bitching about Holmgren is dumb. What exactly are/is the mistake(s) that Holmgren has made ?
I don't see any. I like Shurmur, but I really don't agree with him on a couple of things.
But, the man knows his football, and he, Holmgren and Heckert sure the hell know their talent.
Their draft last year was freaking brilliant. They just need another draft for more progress.
The bitiching for no reason isn't cool anymore.
Come on, Mik. We have people PO'd that Shurmur isn't emotional... and you complain that Holmgren was emotional.
The non-legit bitching isn't cool anymore. Build a bridge, already.
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Mangini sucked and i still like shurmur better at least as a person however as coaches they both share a similar over conservative and non trusting newbie coach approach to the game that i really dislike, we have to endure this shit way to much..
I really didnt expect much this year or even next year but i have been very disappointed in shurmur being billed as a so called offensive minded coach as he is absolutely no more offensive minded than mangini whom was and is an offensive blunder-bore..
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No, PE is right. This bitching about Holmgren is dumb. What exactly are/is the mistake(s) that Holmgren has made ?
I don't see any. I like Shurmur, but I really don't agree with him on a couple of things.
But, the man knows his football, and he, Holmgren and Heckert sure the hell know their talent.
Their draft last year was freaking brilliant. They just need another draft for more progress.
The bitiching for no reason isn't cool anymore.
Come on, Mik. We have people PO'd that Shurmur isn't emotional... and you complain that Holmgren was emotional.
The non-legit bitching isn't cool anymore. Build a bridge, already.
No, PE is right. This bitching about Holmgren is dumb. What exactly are/is the mistake(s) that Holmgren has made ?
1. retaining mangini for a wasted year....
2. a nepotism hiring of someone with zero HC experience and only 2 years experience leading the 29th and 26th ranked offenses in the league
3. not hiring an OC for said terrible HC hire
4. hillis debacle
5. gil haskell....
i could go on...
I don't see any. I like Shurmur, but I really don't agree with him on a couple of things.
just why do you like murmur? you like this pathetic offense? or how he throws his players under the bus to save face?
But, the man knows his football, and he, Holmgren and Heckert sure the hell know their talent.
what gives you this idea? cause other "experts" say so?
Their draft last year was freaking brilliant. They just need another draft for more progress.
brilliant? i think not....haden was a no-brainer....ward is above average thus far....colt is OK. the rest are a bunch of backups. it may be brilliant when compared to our past drafts. 3 picks for hardesty? fail. lauvao? getting manhandled week in week out. asante? not on the team. mitchell? hasnt made a catch yet. geathers? not on the team. this is brilliant? lmao....
The bitiching for no reason isn't cool anymore.
theres plenty of valid reasons...
homlgrens only football success has been as a coach. do you forget he got fired as GM/VPin seattle?
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1. retaining mangini for a wasted year....
2. a nepotism hiring of someone with zero HC experience and only 2 years experience leading the 29th and 26th ranked offenses in the league
3. not hiring an OC for said terrible HC hire
4. hillis debacle
Choco
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1. Not a mistake. It was fair to give him a chance.
2. The squeelers hired Bill Cowhers who had zero experience. Every head coach at one point, was hired with "zero hc experience". Come on. That's dumb.
3. The defense is coming along nicely - still a few weaknesses, like LB, and CB. Maybe DE if one is right at the right pick.
4. Hillis fired his first two agents... and got pouty all by himself. There isn't much else Shurmur could have done.
That's dumb whining.
And the picks of Taylor and Sheard were outstanding. The pick of Little in the second was outstanding. Pinkston is a starter,
Just say "NO" to blabber.
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1. retaining mangini for a wasted year....
2. a nepotism hiring of someone with zero HC experience and only 2 years experience leading the 29th and 26th ranked offenses in the league
3. not hiring an OC for said terrible HC hire
4. hillis debacle
Choco
*******************
1. Not a mistake. It was fair to give him a chance.
2. The squeelers hired Bill Cowhers who had zero experience. Every head coach at one point, was hired with "zero hc experience". Come on. That's dumb.
3. The defense is coming along nicely - still a few weaknesses, like LB, and CB. Maybe DE if one is right at the right pick.
4. Hillis fired his first two agents... and got pouty all by himself. There isn't much else Shurmur could have done.
That's dumb whining.
And the picks of Taylor and Sheard were outstanding. The pick of Little in the second was outstanding. Pinkston is a starter,
Just say "NO" to blabber.
1. retaining mangini for a wasted year....
2. a nepotism hiring of someone with zero HC experience and only 2 years experience leading the 29th and 26th ranked offenses in the league
3. not hiring an OC for said terrible HC hire
4. hillis debacle
Choco
*******************
1. Not a mistake. It was fair to give him a chance.
2. The squeelers hired Bill Cowhers who had zero experience. Every head coach at one point, was hired with "zero hc experience". Come on. That's dumb.
3. The defense is coming along nicely - still a few weaknesses, like LB, and CB. Maybe DE if one is right at the right pick.
4. Hillis fired his first two agents... and got pouty all by himself. There isn't much else Shurmur could have done.
That's dumb whining.
And the picks of Taylor and Sheard were outstanding. The pick of Little in the second was outstanding. Pinkston is a starter,
Just say "NO" to blabber.
And all of those picks were by Heckert, not Shurmur.
The one point Shurmur apologists rally behind is something Shurmur has little to do with. Heckert is the GM, and the GM is in charge of scouting and acquisition of players. The coach no doubt is part of the process, but barely. The coach's job is to win on Sundays, which Shurmur rarely does.
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Well, if Shurmur should be canned for the offense, he should get a raise for the defense.
No coach will ever come in and have a winning season with a serious lack of talent.
It is never going to happen. The Browns would look very, very different if Steinback hadn't gotten hurt,
and Hillis was good to go like last year, and a legit RT was on board...
and a solid cb was added to the mix...
Disgust at a losing season is with all of us. I'm not seeing the blame should be put on Shurmur, despite his actions a few times
that pretty much aggravate me.
The whining over Shurmur without due attention paid to the severe weakness at RT is just barking up the wrong tree.
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mikeyP72 said:
And...and..if the Browns had a pony!
We can talk IF's all day... if Heckert and Holmgren would have gotten a real RT, CB, WR this conversation would still be happening. Shurmur's in over his head and isn't stepping up like Holmgren imagined.
Everyone wanted H and H to make moves and they didn't.
There were tons of people content with the roster and who said we would be fine. Where are those people now, were u one of them?
I was one of those content with the roster after the draft. Not that I didn't think we needed talent ... because I knew we did. It was more that I wanted to see a front office finally build through the draft especially because it appears this front office does know how to draft.
Sure we could have upgraded some spots that needed upgrades ... but at what expense?? The top tier talents available wouldn't have come here to play as they wanted to play for winners. After that it was middle of the road talent (don't get me wrong some were better then what we have) that we would have had to overpay to get them to play here ... on a team they look at as a losing team.
In all honesty if a guy is just going to come here to play because we paid him the most knowing we don't have a shot to do much do you really want that player?? He is guy who just comes here to collect his paycheck.
For those who do not thin building through the draft is the right approach or that it is working look at it like this ... Our defense has played well this year .... We have spent 4 first and second round picks in the past 2 years on the defensive side of the ball. That isn't a coincidence. That is the plan. The offense sucked because they haven't spent high picks on it aside from Little this year.
Even with Little though he is a WR and it takes most WRs a couple of years to develop. Rookie WR's very rarely come into the league and have a huge season. They show potential and make strides as the season goes on and that has certainly been what Little has done. Not to mention that the rest of the offense has been terrible from the Line to the QB to the RB to the play calling.
The only big mistake H&H have made has been Shurmer ... but that was a HUGE mistake
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yeah why haven't we heard from him? at least to give us an opinion on how he thinks the season is going so far.
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