Browns Are Better Than The Steelers.
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Watching Green Bay wipe their arse with the the stoolers last year in the SuperBowl was worth watching. And if there is a rematch we will see a even more lopsided score.
It must be fun when the highlight of your football season is hoping a rival team loses the Super Bowl because you know your team has no chance of getting there. I don't know what's worse, being a Brown's fan or a Pirate fan?????
It must be fun when the highlight of your football season is hoping a rival team loses the Super Bowl because you know your team has no chance of getting there. I don't know what's worse, being a Brown's fan or a Pirate fan?????
Because that's what RIVALSdo.Apparently you have no understanding on what RIVAL means. Yeah, I sit at home everyday wishing my rivals the very best. Break you neck on the way out.........
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It must be fun when the highlight of your football season is hoping a rival team loses the Super Bowl because you know your team has no chance of getting there. I don't know what's worse, being a Brown's fan or a Pirate fan?????
Because that's what RIVALSdo.Apparently you have no understanding on what RIVAL means. Yeah, I sit at home everyday wishing my rivals the very best. Break you neck on the way out.........
Because that's what RIVALSdo.Apparently you have no understanding on what RIVAL means. Yeah, I sit at home everyday wishing my rivals the very best. Break you neck on the way out.........
Wow your comprehension skills are unbelievable! You sure missed my point! I guess thats what years of losing and denial will do to you!
As for the meaning of Rival, you may be right. I never should have called the Browns a Rival. Thats reserved for the Real Browns / Ravens. You have to be competitive to be a rival.
Why you make me go here?
Steelers 22 wins -- New Browns 3 wins
November 20, 1988 = Browns' last season sweep of Steelers to date. WOW!!!
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Because that's what RIVALSdo.Apparently you have no understanding on what RIVAL means. Yeah, I sit at home everyday wishing my rivals the very best. Break you neck on the way out.........
Wow your comprehension skills are unbelievable! You sure missed my point! I guess thats what years of losing and denial will do to you!
As for the meaning of Rival, you may be right. I never should have called the Browns a Rival. Thats reserved for the Real Browns / Ravens. You have to be competitive to be a rival.
Why you make me go here?
Steelers 22 wins -- New Browns 3 wins
November 20, 1988 = Browns' last season sweep of Steelers to date. WOW!!!
Wow your comprehension skills are unbelievable! You sure missed my point! I guess thats what years of losing and denial will do to you!
As for the meaning of Rival, you may be right. I never should have called the Browns a Rival. Thats reserved for the Real Browns / Ravens. You have to be competitive to be a rival.
Why you make me go here?
Steelers 22 wins -- New Browns 3 wins
November 20, 1988 = Browns' last season sweep of Steelers to date. WOW!!!
Just because Randy Lerner is an inept feckless fuck doesn't mean that the rivalry isn't alive and well.
If it weren't, you wouldn't be here.
How often do you troll Ravens boards?
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Wow your comprehension skills are unbelievable! You sure missed my point! I guess thats what years of losing and denial will do to you!
As for the meaning of Rival, you may be right. I never should have called the Browns a Rival. Thats reserved for the Real Browns / Ravens. You have to be competitive to be a rival.
Why you make me go here?
Steelers 22 wins -- New Browns 3 wins
November 20, 1988 = Browns' last season sweep of Steelers to date. WOW!!!
Just because Randy Lerner is an inept feckless fuck doesn't mean that the rivalry isn't alive and well.
If it weren't, you wouldn't be here.
How often do you troll Ravens boards?
Just because Randy Lerner is an inept feckless fuck doesn't mean that the rivalry isn't alive and well.
If it weren't, you wouldn't be here.
How often do you troll Ravens boards?
TROLL??? Check my posts! I rarely post anything inflamitory on here unless provoked by some moron as I was above!
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Because that's what RIVALSdo.Apparently you have no understanding on what RIVAL means. Yeah, I sit at home everyday wishing my rivals the very best. Break you neck on the way out.........
Wow your comprehension skills are unbelievable! You sure missed my point! I guess thats what years of losing and denial will do to you!
As for the meaning of Rival, you may be right. I never should have called the Browns a Rival. Thats reserved for the Real Browns / Ravens. You have to be competitive to be a rival.
Why you make me go here?
Steelers 22 wins -- New Browns 3 wins
November 20, 1988 = Browns' last season sweep of Steelers to date. WOW!!!
Wow your comprehension skills are unbelievable! You sure missed my point! I guess thats what years of losing and denial will do to you!
As for the meaning of Rival, you may be right. I never should have called the Browns a Rival. Thats reserved for the Real Browns / Ravens. You have to be competitive to be a rival.
Why you make me go here?
Steelers 22 wins -- New Browns 3 wins
November 20, 1988 = Browns' last season sweep of Steelers to date. WOW!!!
So with your definition of "rivalry" the Browns and Steelers were only rivals in the 1980s. Great logic.
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Just because Randy Lerner is an inept feckless fuck doesn't mean that the rivalry isn't alive and well.
If it weren't, you wouldn't be here.
How often do you troll Ravens boards?
TROLL??? Check my posts! I rarely post anything inflamitory on here unless provoked by some moron as I was above!
TROLL??? Check my posts! I rarely post anything inflamitory on here unless provoked by some moron as I was above!
Unless you are a Cleveland Browns fan on a Cleveland Browns board, you are a troll. It is simply part of the definition of a troll.
What you deny being is a "flamer". Perhaps you are one, perhaps you are not.
When you make ignorant comments about the Ravens being "the real Browns", your denials are counterevidenced.
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Wow your comprehension skills are unbelievable! You sure missed my point! I guess thats what years of losing and denial will do to you!
As for the meaning of Rival, you may be right. I never should have called the Browns a Rival. Thats reserved for the Real Browns / Ravens. You have to be competitive to be a rival.
Why you make me go here?
Steelers 22 wins -- New Browns 3 wins
November 20, 1988 = Browns' last season sweep of Steelers to date. WOW!!!
So with your definition of "rivalry" the Browns and Steelers were only rivals in the 1980s. Great logic.
So with your definition of "rivalry" the Browns and Steelers were only rivals in the 1980s. Great logic.
I brought that point up some time ago. Point in fact is, the Browns and Steelers have never really been good at the same time, ever. Through the 50s and 60s Browns were good, Steelers sucked. In the 70s the Steelers were good and the Browns sucked. In the 80s, Browns good, Steeler sucked. In the 90s there was maybe a couple of years when they were both good. And of course in the 2000s the Browns have sucked and the Steelers have been good.
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TROLL??? Check my posts! I rarely post anything inflamitory on here unless provoked by some moron as I was above!
Unless you are a Cleveland Browns fan on a Cleveland Browns board, you are a troll. It is simply part of the definition of a troll.
What you deny being is a "flamer". Perhaps you are one, perhaps you are not.
When you make ignorant comments about the Ravens being "the real Browns", your denials are counterevidenced.
Unless you are a Cleveland Browns fan on a Cleveland Browns board, you are a troll. It is simply part of the definition of a troll.
What you deny being is a "flamer". Perhaps you are one, perhaps you are not.
When you make ignorant comments about the Ravens being "the real Browns", your denials are counterevidenced.
My comment = Ravens being "the real Browns" was for effect! Someone wants to jump on my case out of the blue so I went for the juggular! Sorry if I offended anyone. I love the fact that the Steelers, Browns, Ravens and Bengals are all close on the map. I think thats what makes this division the best. Wait until next year when Cincy gets even better and McCoy gets a reciever or two. This division is going to be brutal!
I travel to all the stadiums and have fun. I can dish it out, but I'm not a Stiller Yinzer Idiot.
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Maybe it is just me, but I still think and always will look at the Browns as the Steelers biggest rival. Growing up in the 80's when the teams fortunes were reversed, my hatred for the Browns grew into maybe why I feel this way now. That is why in a few years when the Browns are better than the Steelers, which unfortunately is going to happen, all the young Browns fans that grew up watching the Steelers beat the Browns will hate the Steelers as much as I hate the Browns. I still get more excited for those two games a year more than any other.
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Unless you are a Cleveland Browns fan on a Cleveland Browns board, you are a troll. It is simply part of the definition of a troll.
What you deny being is a "flamer". Perhaps you are one, perhaps you are not.
When you make ignorant comments about the Ravens being "the real Browns", your denials are counterevidenced.
My comment = Ravens being "the real Browns" was for effect! Someone wants to jump on my case out of the blue so I went for the juggular! Sorry if I offended anyone. I love the fact that the Steelers, Browns, Ravens and Bengals are all close on the map. I think thats what makes this division the best. Wait until next year when Cincy gets even better and McCoy gets a reciever or two. This division is going to be brutal!
I travel to all the stadiums and have fun. I can dish it out, but I'm not a Stiller Yinzer Idiot.
My comment = Ravens being "the real Browns" was for effect! Someone wants to jump on my case out of the blue so I went for the juggular! Sorry if I offended anyone. I love the fact that the Steelers, Browns, Ravens and Bengals are all close on the map. I think thats what makes this division the best. Wait until next year when Cincy gets even better and McCoy gets a reciever or two. This division is going to be brutal!
I travel to all the stadiums and have fun. I can dish it out, but I'm not a Stiller Yinzer Idiot.
Perhaps not....but you are a troll, just by being here.
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Browns beat the Jags who beat the Ravens who beat the Steelers 2x.
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The grand scheme behind everything is to hold Hillis out until we play the stoolers so he can demolish their hopes and dreams of getting their asses kicked in another Superbowl by the Green Bay Packers.
The grand scheme behind everything is to hold Hillis out until we play the stoolers so he can demolish their hopes and dreams of getting their asses kicked in another Superbowl by the Green Bay Packers.
Translation:
Browns fans got all excited and fooled into believing that a one-diminesional fullback was going to be an elite player after having one flash in the pan season, so you're back to hoping the Steelers don't win another Super Bowl. Also - losing to a team that is currently on a 16 winning streak spanning two seasons with a QB playing arguably at the highest level ever by only 6 points: you consider that "getting their asses kicked"....
Reality: What constitutes getting your ass kicked in Championship Game
Let's do a real comparison and look at the Steelers vs. Browns in actual "Championship Games" - the NFL Championship vs. the AFC Championship. Going to leave out the Super Bowl - because comparing the two is not as accurate a comparison-
Steelers AFC Championship Games (15 Total; 8-7, Average Win 25.3 to 13.4 (95 point differential); Average Loss: 28.0 to 18.6 (66 point differential)
Browns NFL/AFC Championship Games (14 Total; 4-10, Average Win: 37.8 to 13.0 (99 point differential); Average Loss: 29.9 to 14.7 (152 point differential)
Simple facts here - no distortion of the numbers, no manipulation of the data. Despite Cleveland Brown fan's favorite past times of saying the NFL Championship is the same thing as the Super Bowl and how Pittsburgh Steeler fan doesn't recognize an NFL before 1972, both are false - NFL Championships prior to 1966 required winning a single post season game for the Championship with a rotating (not earned via best record) HFA basis like the World Series formerly employed. Additional playoff games were utilized only in the case of two teams finishing tied at the end of regular season. Beginning in 1966, divisions were formed and a playoff was instituted: 3 teams won the NFL Championship during that time - the Packers, Colts and Vikings. In the case of the Colts and Vikings, both were credited with winning the NFL Championship, but not the Super Bowl. The NFL canon considers AFL and NFL Championships prior to the Super Bowl era to be the equivalent of current Conference Championships of the AFC and NFC - which also feature HFA and since 1984, are awarded a Championship Trophy (Lamar Hunt Trophy for AFC, George Halas Trophy for NFC).
I will give the Browns credit in their 4 Championship wins, some very impressive stuff:
1954 - Beat Lions 56-10 (played in Cleveland)
1955 - Beat Rams 38-14 (played in Los Angeles)
1964 - Beat Colts 27-0 (played in Cleveland)
But - the flip side is those 10 losses, the Browns lost by an average of 15 points - and the Lions exacted revenge when playing for the NFL Championship in Detroit winning 59-14 and the Colts avenged the shutout loss in 1968 by winning 34-0. To make things worse, as mentioned, the 1966-1969 seasons featured two chances at glory - winning the NFL Championship and winning the Super Bowl. While the Packers accomplished this feat - the Colts and Vikings did not, although playing for the right to go to the Super Bowl and for the NFL Championship, both teams piled on the Browns by a combined 61-7 total. It could have been the Cleveland Browns that Broadway Joe made the historic guarantee against.
Personally - when I see the Steelers only down by 6 with 2 minutes left in a game despite making some very damaging self-inflicted mistakes via turnovers and in position to pull off one final game winning drive like they did in the Super Bowl in 2008 and against the same Packers team in 2009, well - I guess my definition of "getting their asses beat" is different than yours. I actually look at it as a defeat - with no excuses and no crying. The opportunity was their and was not seized.
And it's certainly far more preferable than waiting for the draft with a pick that is just high enough to be outside the chance to draft a franchise QB, not that the Browns would be smart enough to select a Ben Roethlisberger or Aaron Rogers when they fall right into their lap anyway.
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Green Bay is going to wipe the floor with anyone coming out of the AFC this year, so does it really matter?
That is what everyone said about the Patriots back in 2007. How'd that work out?
The Steelers, Patriots and Ravens all have the ability to beat the Packers. In Super Bowl XLV, Pittsburgh committed 3 turnovers that were extremely costly yet still were in position to execute a game winning drive. Only in 2011 - they have a little more experience with those very talented big play WRs and young, but raw, talent at DB that can better defend the spread.
The Patriots have an offense that can go toe-to-toe with the Packers. If anyone thinks that Brady cannot keep up with Rogers, they haven't watched football for the last 10 years. It may not feature as much defense, but if any QB and go into a shoot out with Rogers, its Tom Brady - and do you think Belichick wouldn't bring something extra?
The Ravens cannot match offensive firepower - but they can bring a physical presence and when focused, are capable of beating anyone. They would need the help of turnovers and controlling the clock. But Mendenhall was giving the Packers problems last year, imagine what Ray Rice and the Ravens OL could do. If they were focused and forced turnovers - the best way to stop Rogers would be to see him with his helmet off watching the Green Bay defense (1990 Giants vs. Bills anyone?)
The Packers defense is ranked 30th in the NFL and are 15th in defensive scoring. In 2010 - the defense was just as elite as the offense, finishing #5 overall and #2 in points. They are not playing to the same level in 2011 they were in 2010. Also - look at who the Packers have played - the highest ranked defensive unit has been #14. The Panthers, Vikings, Buccaneers and Chargers all are among the worst scoring defenses as well as against the pass.
While the Packers are definitely a great team - one that has proven itself over several seasons of improvement and riding a 16 game winning streak - they are not invincible. They are very one-dimensional and relying heavily on Aaron Rogers. They aren't bringing it all around like they did in 2010 - where they showed they were a threat to win without Rogers playing or in a defense heavy battle. This IS a different era of the NFL with the changes in rules, but historically, teams that are one-dimensional and rely too much on offense and the QB rarely see it all the way through to the Super Bowl victory.
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If you're not first, you're last.
If you're not first, you're last.
So - you're saying the 2010 Steelers season was no different than the 2010 Carolina Panthers season?
I get it - the goal is to win the Super Bowl. It's the ultimate achievement for a team in the NFL and the fanbase.
But to suggest there are only two degrees is non-sense. Any Browns fan old enough to remember the 1980s with Bernie Kosar knows that your statement is ridiculous. Even with the heartbreaking losses, which every team has, there are memories and the intangibles that make certain teams, years and eras special.
For Pittsburgh, since 2004 and the Roethlisberger era opened with that 15-1 season:
84-38 regular season record - no losing seasons, 5 years with 10 or more wins (7-3 in current season)
10-3 post season record
4 AFC North Championships
5 Playoff Appearances - 7 Home Playoff Games (more than 18 teams have hosted since merger)
4 AFC Championship Game Appearances and 3 AFC Championships/Lamar Hunt Trophies
Team Accolades:
#1 or #2 ranked defense (yardage) in NFL in 2004, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011 (through week 11)
#1 or #2 ranked defense (points) in NFL in 2004, 2007, 2008, 2010
Tied NFL record for 14 consecutive weeks holding a team under 300 yards (2008)
Won Super Bowl despite facing the 2nd most difficult schedule of any Super Bowl winner (2008 - opponents final W/L/T 133-120-3)
Individual Accolades:
2 Defensive Player of the Year Winners - James Harrison (2008) & Troy Polamalu (2010)
2 Super Bowl MVP Winners - Hines Ward (Super Bowl XL) and Santonio Holmes (Super Bowl XLIII)
Potential Hall of Famers
Jerome Bettis - 5th all time leading rusher
Bill Cowher
Alan Faneca
Hines Ward
Troy Polamalu
Ben Roethlisberger
SUFFICE TO SAY - THAT'S JUST SCRATCHING THE SURFACE. Touching upon what, to a fanbase, provide memories and an attachment to an era that will pass (in the case of the Steelers, for many players it has passed an it's already transitioned or transitioning to the next generation). But you hold those accomplishments and achievements with pride. You'll remember not that you had the #1 defense in whatever category, but the consistent dominance of the era is what will matter.
You still see Browns fans talking about the 1950's and 1960's. Did they win the NFL Championship every year? Of course not - there were seasons that the Browns reached the Championship game and were trounced - but does that matter?
If someone were to tell you that you would reach 3 Super Bowls in 6 years and would win 2 - you would jump over it. You wouldn't concern with losing 1/3 Super Bowls the Browns would be playing in at all. You'd be thrilled about what you were getting.
Winning a championship is great - but to use it as the only standard measure of success - to suggest that losing the Super Bowl is the same as being any other team in the league is just plain nonsense.
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it's funny that a tongue in cheek post turns out to be some heavily blown out debate
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The grand scheme behind everything is to hold Hillis out until we play the stoolers so he can demolish their hopes and dreams of getting their asses kicked in another Superbowl by the Green Bay Packers.
Translation:
Browns fans got all excited and fooled into believing that a one-diminesional fullback was going to be an elite player after having one flash in the pan season, so you're back to hoping the Steelers don't win another Super Bowl. Also - losing to a team that is currently on a 16 winning streak spanning two seasons with a QB playing arguably at the highest level ever by only 6 points: you consider that "getting their asses kicked"....
Reality: What constitutes getting your ass kicked in Championship Game
Let's do a real comparison and look at the Steelers vs. Browns in actual "Championship Games" - the NFL Championship vs. the AFC Championship. Going to leave out the Super Bowl - because comparing the two is not as accurate a comparison-
Steelers AFC Championship Games (15 Total; 8-7, Average Win 25.3 to 13.4 (95 point differential); Average Loss: 28.0 to 18.6 (66 point differential)
Browns NFL/AFC Championship Games (14 Total; 4-10, Average Win: 37.8 to 13.0 (99 point differential); Average Loss: 29.9 to 14.7 (152 point differential)
Simple facts here - no distortion of the numbers, no manipulation of the data. Despite Cleveland Brown fan's favorite past times of saying the NFL Championship is the same thing as the Super Bowl and how Pittsburgh Steeler fan doesn't recognize an NFL before 1972, both are false - NFL Championships prior to 1966 required winning a single post season game for the Championship with a rotating (not earned via best record) HFA basis like the World Series formerly employed. Additional playoff games were utilized only in the case of two teams finishing tied at the end of regular season. Beginning in 1966, divisions were formed and a playoff was instituted: 3 teams won the NFL Championship during that time - the Packers, Colts and Vikings. In the case of the Colts and Vikings, both were credited with winning the NFL Championship, but not the Super Bowl. The NFL canon considers AFL and NFL Championships prior to the Super Bowl era to be the equivalent of current Conference Championships of the AFC and NFC - which also feature HFA and since 1984, are awarded a Championship Trophy (Lamar Hunt Trophy for AFC, George Halas Trophy for NFC).
I will give the Browns credit in their 4 Championship wins, some very impressive stuff:
1954 - Beat Lions 56-10 (played in Cleveland)
1955 - Beat Rams 38-14 (played in Los Angeles)
1964 - Beat Colts 27-0 (played in Cleveland)
But - the flip side is those 10 losses, the Browns lost by an average of 15 points - and the Lions exacted revenge when playing for the NFL Championship in Detroit winning 59-14 and the Colts avenged the shutout loss in 1968 by winning 34-0. To make things worse, as mentioned, the 1966-1969 seasons featured two chances at glory - winning the NFL Championship and winning the Super Bowl. While the Packers accomplished this feat - the Colts and Vikings did not, although playing for the right to go to the Super Bowl and for the NFL Championship, both teams piled on the Browns by a combined 61-7 total. It could have been the Cleveland Browns that Broadway Joe made the historic guarantee against.
Personally - when I see the Steelers only down by 6 with 2 minutes left in a game despite making some very damaging self-inflicted mistakes via turnovers and in position to pull off one final game winning drive like they did in the Super Bowl in 2008 and against the same Packers team in 2009, well - I guess my definition of "getting their asses beat" is different than yours. I actually look at it as a defeat - with no excuses and no crying. The opportunity was their and was not seized.
And it's certainly far more preferable than waiting for the draft with a pick that is just high enough to be outside the chance to draft a franchise QB, not that the Browns would be smart enough to select a Ben Roethlisberger or Aaron Rogers when they fall right into their lap anyway.
Translation:
Browns fans got all excited and fooled into believing that a one-diminesional fullback was going to be an elite player after having one flash in the pan season, so you're back to hoping the Steelers don't win another Super Bowl. Also - losing to a team that is currently on a 16 winning streak spanning two seasons with a QB playing arguably at the highest level ever by only 6 points: you consider that "getting their asses kicked"....
Reality: What constitutes getting your ass kicked in Championship Game
Let's do a real comparison and look at the Steelers vs. Browns in actual "Championship Games" - the NFL Championship vs. the AFC Championship. Going to leave out the Super Bowl - because comparing the two is not as accurate a comparison-
Steelers AFC Championship Games (15 Total; 8-7, Average Win 25.3 to 13.4 (95 point differential); Average Loss: 28.0 to 18.6 (66 point differential)
Browns NFL/AFC Championship Games (14 Total; 4-10, Average Win: 37.8 to 13.0 (99 point differential); Average Loss: 29.9 to 14.7 (152 point differential)
Simple facts here - no distortion of the numbers, no manipulation of the data. Despite Cleveland Brown fan's favorite past times of saying the NFL Championship is the same thing as the Super Bowl and how Pittsburgh Steeler fan doesn't recognize an NFL before 1972, both are false - NFL Championships prior to 1966 required winning a single post season game for the Championship with a rotating (not earned via best record) HFA basis like the World Series formerly employed. Additional playoff games were utilized only in the case of two teams finishing tied at the end of regular season. Beginning in 1966, divisions were formed and a playoff was instituted: 3 teams won the NFL Championship during that time - the Packers, Colts and Vikings. In the case of the Colts and Vikings, both were credited with winning the NFL Championship, but not the Super Bowl. The NFL canon considers AFL and NFL Championships prior to the Super Bowl era to be the equivalent of current Conference Championships of the AFC and NFC - which also feature HFA and since 1984, are awarded a Championship Trophy (Lamar Hunt Trophy for AFC, George Halas Trophy for NFC).
I will give the Browns credit in their 4 Championship wins, some very impressive stuff:
1954 - Beat Lions 56-10 (played in Cleveland)
1955 - Beat Rams 38-14 (played in Los Angeles)
1964 - Beat Colts 27-0 (played in Cleveland)
But - the flip side is those 10 losses, the Browns lost by an average of 15 points - and the Lions exacted revenge when playing for the NFL Championship in Detroit winning 59-14 and the Colts avenged the shutout loss in 1968 by winning 34-0. To make things worse, as mentioned, the 1966-1969 seasons featured two chances at glory - winning the NFL Championship and winning the Super Bowl. While the Packers accomplished this feat - the Colts and Vikings did not, although playing for the right to go to the Super Bowl and for the NFL Championship, both teams piled on the Browns by a combined 61-7 total. It could have been the Cleveland Browns that Broadway Joe made the historic guarantee against.
Personally - when I see the Steelers only down by 6 with 2 minutes left in a game despite making some very damaging self-inflicted mistakes via turnovers and in position to pull off one final game winning drive like they did in the Super Bowl in 2008 and against the same Packers team in 2009, well - I guess my definition of "getting their asses beat" is different than yours. I actually look at it as a defeat - with no excuses and no crying. The opportunity was their and was not seized.
And it's certainly far more preferable than waiting for the draft with a pick that is just high enough to be outside the chance to draft a franchise QB, not that the Browns would be smart enough to select a Ben Roethlisberger or Aaron Rogers when they fall right into their lap anyway.
No matter how you slice, dice, obfuscate, pederate, manipulate, the numbers are simple:
Cleveland/NE Ohio has 13 Championships. Pitt/WPA has 6.
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Translation:
Browns fans got all excited and fooled into believing that a one-diminesional fullback was going to be an elite player after having one flash in the pan season, so you're back to hoping the Steelers don't win another Super Bowl. Also - losing to a team that is currently on a 16 winning streak spanning two seasons with a QB playing arguably at the highest level ever by only 6 points: you consider that "getting their asses kicked"....
Reality: What constitutes getting your ass kicked in Championship Game
Let's do a real comparison and look at the Steelers vs. Browns in actual "Championship Games" - the NFL Championship vs. the AFC Championship. Going to leave out the Super Bowl - because comparing the two is not as accurate a comparison-
Steelers AFC Championship Games (15 Total; 8-7, Average Win 25.3 to 13.4 (95 point differential); Average Loss: 28.0 to 18.6 (66 point differential)
Browns NFL/AFC Championship Games (14 Total; 4-10, Average Win: 37.8 to 13.0 (99 point differential); Average Loss: 29.9 to 14.7 (152 point differential)
Simple facts here - no distortion of the numbers, no manipulation of the data. Despite Cleveland Brown fan's favorite past times of saying the NFL Championship is the same thing as the Super Bowl and how Pittsburgh Steeler fan doesn't recognize an NFL before 1972, both are false - NFL Championships prior to 1966 required winning a single post season game for the Championship with a rotating (not earned via best record) HFA basis like the World Series formerly employed. Additional playoff games were utilized only in the case of two teams finishing tied at the end of regular season. Beginning in 1966, divisions were formed and a playoff was instituted: 3 teams won the NFL Championship during that time - the Packers, Colts and Vikings. In the case of the Colts and Vikings, both were credited with winning the NFL Championship, but not the Super Bowl. The NFL canon considers AFL and NFL Championships prior to the Super Bowl era to be the equivalent of current Conference Championships of the AFC and NFC - which also feature HFA and since 1984, are awarded a Championship Trophy (Lamar Hunt Trophy for AFC, George Halas Trophy for NFC).
I will give the Browns credit in their 4 Championship wins, some very impressive stuff:
1954 - Beat Lions 56-10 (played in Cleveland)
1955 - Beat Rams 38-14 (played in Los Angeles)
1964 - Beat Colts 27-0 (played in Cleveland)
But - the flip side is those 10 losses, the Browns lost by an average of 15 points - and the Lions exacted revenge when playing for the NFL Championship in Detroit winning 59-14 and the Colts avenged the shutout loss in 1968 by winning 34-0. To make things worse, as mentioned, the 1966-1969 seasons featured two chances at glory - winning the NFL Championship and winning the Super Bowl. While the Packers accomplished this feat - the Colts and Vikings did not, although playing for the right to go to the Super Bowl and for the NFL Championship, both teams piled on the Browns by a combined 61-7 total. It could have been the Cleveland Browns that Broadway Joe made the historic guarantee against.
Personally - when I see the Steelers only down by 6 with 2 minutes left in a game despite making some very damaging self-inflicted mistakes via turnovers and in position to pull off one final game winning drive like they did in the Super Bowl in 2008 and against the same Packers team in 2009, well - I guess my definition of "getting their asses beat" is different than yours. I actually look at it as a defeat - with no excuses and no crying. The opportunity was their and was not seized.
And it's certainly far more preferable than waiting for the draft with a pick that is just high enough to be outside the chance to draft a franchise QB, not that the Browns would be smart enough to select a Ben Roethlisberger or Aaron Rogers when they fall right into their lap anyway.
No matter how you slice, dice, obfuscate, pederate, manipulate, the numbers are simple:
Cleveland/NE Ohio has 13 Championships. Pitt/WPA has 6.
No matter how you slice, dice, obfuscate, pederate, manipulate, the numbers are simple:
Cleveland/NE Ohio has 13 Championships. Pitt/WPA has 6.
Browns have seven straight championships their first seven years in existance, Stooler can't say they done that
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So with your definition of "rivalry" the Browns and Steelers were only rivals in the 1980s. Great logic.
I brought that point up some time ago. Point in fact is, the Browns and Steelers have never really been good at the same time, ever. Through the 50s and 60s Browns were good, Steelers sucked. In the 70s the Steelers were good and the Browns sucked. In the 80s, Browns good, Steeler sucked. In the 90s there was maybe a couple of years when they were both good. And of course in the 2000s the Browns have sucked and the Steelers have been good.
I brought that point up some time ago. Point in fact is, the Browns and Steelers have never really been good at the same time, ever. Through the 50s and 60s Browns were good, Steelers sucked. In the 70s the Steelers were good and the Browns sucked. In the 80s, Browns good, Steeler sucked. In the 90s there was maybe a couple of years when they were both good. And of course in the 2000s the Browns have sucked and the Steelers have been good.
The Steelers are the only team in the NFL with 4 Head Coaches that have won 50 or more games - Noll, Cowher, Tomlin and Buddy Parker.
From 1957 to 1963 - the Steelers finished better than the Browns once (1962), missed out on playing for NFL Championship by losing final game (1963) and finished 2 games back of Cleveland 2x and 1 game back 1x. It was an era in which the Browns were better in truth - but it wasn't the overall domination you'd prefer to remember it to be.
Likewise from 1980 to 1985 - The Browns finished better than the Steelers 2x, but it wasn't some overwhelming domination by either team. The Browns had their 1980 heartbreak to match the 1963 Steelers dropping the ball to end the season.
As far as both teams being good in the 1990s - there were two years the Browns finished within 1 game of the Steelers, 1991 (7-9 vs. 6-10) and 1994 (12-4 vs. 11-5) but that 1994 season featured a 3 game sweep.
It would be more accurate to say there has never been an extended period in which both teams were legit contenders - those years were 1962, 1963, 1972 and 1994. The other competitive seasons that came down to the end - but one of the teams may have been a legit contender while the other was battling to be a playoff team: 1976, 1983, 1985, 1989 and 2002.
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Translation:
Browns fans got all excited and fooled into believing that a one-diminesional fullback was going to be an elite player after having one flash in the pan season, so you're back to hoping the Steelers don't win another Super Bowl. Also - losing to a team that is currently on a 16 winning streak spanning two seasons with a QB playing arguably at the highest level ever by only 6 points: you consider that "getting their asses kicked"....
Reality: What constitutes getting your ass kicked in Championship Game
Let's do a real comparison and look at the Steelers vs. Browns in actual "Championship Games" - the NFL Championship vs. the AFC Championship. Going to leave out the Super Bowl - because comparing the two is not as accurate a comparison-
Steelers AFC Championship Games (15 Total; 8-7, Average Win 25.3 to 13.4 (95 point differential); Average Loss: 28.0 to 18.6 (66 point differential)
Browns NFL/AFC Championship Games (14 Total; 4-10, Average Win: 37.8 to 13.0 (99 point differential); Average Loss: 29.9 to 14.7 (152 point differential)
Simple facts here - no distortion of the numbers, no manipulation of the data. Despite Cleveland Brown fan's favorite past times of saying the NFL Championship is the same thing as the Super Bowl and how Pittsburgh Steeler fan doesn't recognize an NFL before 1972, both are false - NFL Championships prior to 1966 required winning a single post season game for the Championship with a rotating (not earned via best record) HFA basis like the World Series formerly employed. Additional playoff games were utilized only in the case of two teams finishing tied at the end of regular season. Beginning in 1966, divisions were formed and a playoff was instituted: 3 teams won the NFL Championship during that time - the Packers, Colts and Vikings. In the case of the Colts and Vikings, both were credited with winning the NFL Championship, but not the Super Bowl. The NFL canon considers AFL and NFL Championships prior to the Super Bowl era to be the equivalent of current Conference Championships of the AFC and NFC - which also feature HFA and since 1984, are awarded a Championship Trophy (Lamar Hunt Trophy for AFC, George Halas Trophy for NFC).
I will give the Browns credit in their 4 Championship wins, some very impressive stuff:
1954 - Beat Lions 56-10 (played in Cleveland)
1955 - Beat Rams 38-14 (played in Los Angeles)
1964 - Beat Colts 27-0 (played in Cleveland)
But - the flip side is those 10 losses, the Browns lost by an average of 15 points - and the Lions exacted revenge when playing for the NFL Championship in Detroit winning 59-14 and the Colts avenged the shutout loss in 1968 by winning 34-0. To make things worse, as mentioned, the 1966-1969 seasons featured two chances at glory - winning the NFL Championship and winning the Super Bowl. While the Packers accomplished this feat - the Colts and Vikings did not, although playing for the right to go to the Super Bowl and for the NFL Championship, both teams piled on the Browns by a combined 61-7 total. It could have been the Cleveland Browns that Broadway Joe made the historic guarantee against.
Personally - when I see the Steelers only down by 6 with 2 minutes left in a game despite making some very damaging self-inflicted mistakes via turnovers and in position to pull off one final game winning drive like they did in the Super Bowl in 2008 and against the same Packers team in 2009, well - I guess my definition of "getting their asses beat" is different than yours. I actually look at it as a defeat - with no excuses and no crying. The opportunity was their and was not seized.
And it's certainly far more preferable than waiting for the draft with a pick that is just high enough to be outside the chance to draft a franchise QB, not that the Browns would be smart enough to select a Ben Roethlisberger or Aaron Rogers when they fall right into their lap anyway.
No matter how you slice, dice, obfuscate, pederate, manipulate, the numbers are simple:
Cleveland/NE Ohio has 13 Championships. Pitt/WPA has 6.
No matter how you slice, dice, obfuscate, pederate, manipulate, the numbers are simple:
Cleveland/NE Ohio has 13 Championships. Pitt/WPA has 6.
Tell you what - YOU slice, dice, obfuscate, pederate and manipulate.
I'll state truth and fact.
Cleveland/NE Ohio has 13 championships. The Cleveland Browns have 4 NFL Championships and 4 AAFC Championships, the Cleveland/Canton Bulldogs have 3 NFL Championships, the Akron Pros have 1 NFL Championship and the Cleveland Rams have 1 NFL Championship. Are you really consolidating 5 teams from 3 different leagues to compare to the success of the Steelers alone? You're pulling in teams from Akron and Canton and considering them as part of the Browns history? You're taking the Rams history to bolster the history of Cleveland to compare to the Steelers?
You're accusing me of manipulating? You - who represent a fanbase that accuses the Steelers of being bandwagon fans - taking credit for Rams NFL Championships?
I have yet to see one Browns fan answer two simple questions:
If the NFL Championship is the same as the Super Bowl - why are the Colts and Vikings more remembered for losing Super Bowl III and IV than winning the 1968 and 1969 NFL Championships? The Browns could have played in those Super Bowls - but lost by a combined 61-7 in those NFL Championship Games.
If the AAFC Championships are equivalent to Super Bowls - why doesn't Buffalo and San Diego and Houston celebrate their AFL Championships like Super Bowls? Why don't the Philadelphia fans celebrate their USFL Championships and Tampa Bay with their Arena Bowls? Only Cleveland fans seem to think the championships they won in a secondary league are equal to the NFL Championships.
FACT - so spinning, no slicing, no manipulation.
THE NFL REGARDS THE NFL AND AFL CHAMPIONSHIPS AT THE LEVEL OF SIGNIFICANCE OF NFC AND AFC CHAMPIONSHIPS
- Teams are awarded Trophies - Lamar Hunt Trophy for AFC, George Halas for NFC
- Players are awarded Conference Championship Rings
The Steelers have played for 15 AFC Championships - the Browns have played for 11 NFL/AFC Championships. The Steelers have won 8, the Browns have won 4.
Utlimately - no slicing or dicing or manipulation:
The Steelers to play in/win AFC Championship Game and Super Bowl - they had to win 30 postseason games (losing 9).
The Browns to play in/win NFL Championship Game or AFC Championship Game - they had to win 10 postseason games (losing 11).
I realize it's such a mismatch - next thing you'll bring up is how the Browns were in the original Tecmo Bowl and those championships should count. But the reality is the Browns have seen 5 Cleveland/NE Ohio Franchises either fold or leave town while the Steelers remain the same franchise since 1933. But, you go on believing you have the greatest fanbase of all time. You're obviously delusional anyway.
- Teams are awarded Trophies - Lamar Hunt Trophy for AFC, George Halas for NFC
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No matter how you slice, dice, obfuscate, pederate, manipulate, the numbers are simple:
Cleveland/NE Ohio has 13 Championships. Pitt/WPA has 6.
Browns have seven straight championships their first seven years in existance, Stooler can't say they done that
Browns have seven straight championships their first seven years in existance, Stooler can't say they done that
Forget about the fact that Cleveland is the only fanbase that values AFL, AAFC, WFL, USFL, Arena League Football Championships at the same level as the Super Bowl and that cities like Tampa, Philadelphia, Buffalo, San Diego, Houston and Kansas City don't embarrass themselves by boasting about those minor league championships.
What's even more pathetic is that assuming that AAFC Championships were equivalent to NFL Championships (ignoring that 80% of the league folded within 6 years of its formation - that Browns fans (who love to say Steelers fans don't acknowledge that there was an NFL before 1970) are completely ignorant about their own team's history.
The Browns most certainly did not have seven straight championships in their first seven years in existance. The won 4 AAFC Championships in the 4 year existance of the league. 7 teams folded after 1949 as they could not even field a competitive team nor draw any attendance. 3 teams merged into the NFL - the Baltimore Colts, San Francisco 49ers and Cleveland Browns. The Baltimore Colts folded a few years later - so they are not the same Baltimore franchise that would re-form later in the decade.
The Browns won the NFL Championship in 1950 - then proceeded to reach the NFL Championship Game in 1951, 1952 and 1953 - but lost. They would win it again in 1954 and 1955. And I am willing to wager that 90% of the fans on this board would not even know who the Browns played in those games, where they were played, the players on the other teams or the final score. After all, ignorant fans like this guy I'm replying to don't even know the history of their own team.
Pathetic - I know more about the Browns franchise than Browns fans.
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