Semifinalists For The Hof Class Of 2012
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Semifinalists from last year include: Doleman, Haley, Cortez Kennedy, Dawson, Roaf, Tim Brown, Carter, Reed, Bettis and Martin. Its possible these guys might have a leg up on getting in.
Semifinalists from last year include: Doleman, Haley, Cortez Kennedy, Dawson, Roaf, Tim Brown, Carter, Reed, Bettis and Martin. Its possible these guys might have a leg up on getting in.
Chris Carter should have been in on the first try.
Tim Brown is plenty worthy too.
I may be a homer too, but if Clay Matthews had played for the Steelers, he'd already be in. I don't think Jack Ham was any better.
Unfortunately for Steeler fans Myron Cope is dead- and he wasn't going to be happy unless he got every player from the 70s SB teams into the HOF. He missed out on Rocky Blier and Frenchy Fuqua.
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Zombo said:
Don't remember Clay getting this far before. Maybe the stardom of his boy is shining some light on him. I loved Clay, did everything well every week and played with passion. Named my dog after him.
Z
Yes, this is Clay Mathews first time as a semi-finalist.
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Here is the list of Semi-finalist for the PFHOF Class of 2012:
Steve Atwater, S – 1989-1998 Denver Broncos, 1999 New York Jets
Jerome Bettis, RB – 1993-95 Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams, 1996-2005 Pittsburgh Steelers
Tim Brown, WR/KR – 1988-2003 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders, 2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Cris Carter, WR – 1987-89 Philadelphia Eagles, 1990-2001 Minnesota Vikings, 2002 Miami Dolphins
Don Coryell, Coach – 1973-77 St. Louis Cardinals, 1978-1986 San Diego Chargers
Roger Craig, RB – 1983-1990 San Francisco 49ers, 1991 Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-93 Minnesota Vikings
Terrell Davis, RB – 1995-2001 Denver Broncos
Dermontti Dawson, C – 1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers
Edward DeBartolo, Jr., Owner – 1979-2000 San Francisco 49ers
Chris Doleman, DE/LB – 1985-1993, 1999 Minnesota Vikings, 1994-95 Atlanta Falcons, 1996-98 San Francisco 49ers
Kevin Greene, LB/DE – 1985-1992 Los Angeles Rams, 1993-95 Pittsburgh Steelers, 1996, 1998-99 Carolina Panthers, 1997 San Francisco 49ers
Charles Haley, DE/LB – 1986-1991, 1999 San Francisco 49ers, 1992-96 Dallas Cowboys
Cortez Kennedy, DT – 1990-2000 Seattle Seahawks
Curtis Martin, RB – 1995-97 New England Patriots, 1998-2005 New York Jets
Clay Matthews, LB – 1978-1993 Cleveland Browns, 1994-96 Atlanta Falcons
Karl Mecklenburg, LB – 1983-1994 Denver Broncos
Bill Parcells, Coach – 1983-1990 New York Giants, 1993-96 New England Patriots, 1997-99 New York Jets, 2003-06 Dallas Cowboys
Andre Reed, WR – 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins
Willie Roaf, T – 1993-2001 New Orleans Saints, 2002-05 Kansas City Chiefs
Donnie Shell, S – 1974-1987 Pittsburgh Steelers
Will Shields, G – 1993-2006 Kansas City Chiefs
Paul Tagliabue, Commissioner – 1989-2006 National Football League
Steve Tasker, ST/WR – 1985-86 Houston Oilers, 1986-1997 Buffalo Bills
Aeneas Williams, CB/S – 1991-2000 Phoenix/Arizona Cardinals, 2001-04 St. Louis Rams
Ron Wolf, Contributor – 1963-1974, 1978-1990 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders, 1975-77 Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 1990 New York Jets, 1991 -2001 Green Bay Packers
George Young, Contributor – 1968-1974 Baltimore Colts, 1975-78 Miami Dolphins, 1979-1997 New York Giants, 1998-2001 National Football League
Parcells, Shields, Atwater, Mathews, Mecklenburg and Wolf are first timers at this Semi-final level.
Here is the list of Semi-finalist for the PFHOF Class of 2012:
Cris Carter, WR – 1987-89 Philadelphia Eagles, 1990-2001 Minnesota Vikings, 2002 Miami Dolphins
Charles Haley, DE/LB – 1986-1991, 1999 San Francisco 49ers, 1992-96 Dallas Cowboys
Cortez Kennedy, DT – 1990-2000 Seattle Seahawks
Bill Parcells, Coach – 1983-1990 New York Giants, 1993-96 New England Patriots, 1997-99 New York Jets, 2003-06 Dallas Cowboys
Donnie Shell, S – 1974-1987 Pittsburgh Steelers
Those are mine
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On the question of Donnie Shell...perhaps the push for him is to give the 70s Steelers dynasty parity with the 60s Packers dynasty. Following is what I will term "Hall of Fame dynasties" i.e. the teams from different eras that have the most players on that team in the Hall of Fame. For this purpose I am NOT including owners or front office types, but I DO include coaches and players.:
11 HOFers: Packers of the 60s: Adderly, Willie Davis, Gregg, Hornung, Jordan, Lombardi, Nitschke, Ringo, Starr, Taylor, Willie Wood
10 HOFers: Steelers of the 70s: Blount, Bradshaw, Greene, Ham, Harris, Lambert, Noll, Stallworth, Swann, Webster
9 HOFers: Browns of the 40s/50s: Paul Brown, Len Ford, Gatski, Graham, Groza, Lavelli, McCormack, Motley, Willis
9 HOFers: Raiders of the 70s: Biletnikoff, Blanda, Willie Brown, Caspar, Hendricks, Madden, Otto, Shell, Upshaw
8 HOFers: Bears of the 40s: Fortman, Halas, Luckman, McAfee, Musso, Stydahar, Turner, Nagurski
8 HOFers: 50s/60s Colts: Berry, Donovan, Ewbank, Mackey, Marchetti, Moore, Parker, Unitas
8 HOFers: Cowboys of the 70s: Dorsett, Bob Hayes, Landry, Lilly, Mel Renfro, Staubach, Randy White, Rayfield Wright
7 HOFers: 70s Dolphins: Buonticonti, Csonka, Griese, Langer, Little, Shula, Warfield
7 HOFers: 60s/70s Chiefs: Bobby Bell, Buck Buchanan, Dawson, Lanier, Stenerud, Stram, Emmit Thomas
6 HOFers: 70s Vikings: Eller, Grant, Krause, Page, Tarkenton, Ron Yary
6 HOFers: 50s Lions: Christianson, Creekmur, Yale Lary, Layne, Schmidt, Walker
6 HOFers: 80s 49ers: Fred Dean, Lott, Montana, Rice, Walsh, Young
Several other teams have had as many as 5 HOFers, like the 60s Browns, 80s Redskins, 50s Rams, 50s/60s Giants, 30s Packers, and maybe 1 or 2 others
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Only the following semifinalists, if inducted could add to the count of the teams in the prior post:
If Roger Craig and Charles Haley were inducted that would bring the 80s 49ers count to 8 HOFers (it seems given the other dynasties in history that the 49ers are "underrepresented")
If Shell were inducted that would give the 70s Steelers 11 and a tie for the most with the Packers
If Dick Stanfel is inducted that would give those 50s Lions 7 HOFers.
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11 HOFers: Packers of the 60s: Adderly, Willie Davis, Gregg, Hornung, Jordan, Lombardi, Nitschke, Ringo, Starr, Taylor, Willie Wood.
I didn't consciously put those two together like that. I was just going alphabetically.
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By the way, the one obvious dynasty left off of the above is the Cowboys of the 90s. They only have the "triplets" in the HOF: Aikman, Irvin and Emmit Smith. And I do not believe any of the semifinalists played for them....errr, I guess Charles Haley did...but he would only make it 4 from that team.
(Hmmm Let's see...."triplets", how would Richardson, Floyd and McCoy sound as a champion "triplet" combination?)
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Guess what I'm saying Gips is if your team wins a lot of Super Bowls, players gets more consideration than they ought to. Put Swann and Stallworth on other teams- their stats aren't all that great, and I doubt they'd be in. I think my Ham-Matthews comparison backs that up.
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Guess what I'm saying Gips is if your team wins a lot of Super Bowls, players gets more consideration than they ought to. Put Swann and Stallworth on other teams- their stats aren't all that great, and I doubt they'd be in. I think my Ham-Matthews comparison backs that up.
Guess what I'm saying Gips is if your team wins a lot of Super Bowls, players gets more consideration than they ought to. Put Swann and Stallworth on other teams- their stats aren't all that great, and I doubt they'd be in. I think my Ham-Matthews comparison backs that up.
Sure, there is absolutely no doubt about that. Of course, it cuts both ways. The 40s/50s Browns would not have had so many in if they were not as good as they were.
And it applies elsewhere as well. See these stats:
Marty Schottenheimer has a career 200-126-1 record
Bill Parcells has a 172-130-1 record
Both retired in 2006. Yet Parcells with the worse record is a HOF finalist and Marty is not.
The obvious difference is tha Parcells won 2 SBs. Marty's postseason record is 5-13. Parcell's postseason record is 11-8
Everyone with more wins than Marty is in the HOF (Shula, Halas, Landry, Lambeau, Brown)
In fact Chuck Knox has more wins than Parcells with about the same winning pct., but he too, like Marty came up short in postseason. Even one title would have probably put these two guys into the HOF. Without that one, they may never make it.
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Here is the list of Semi-finalist for the PFHOF Class of 2012:
Steve Atwater, S – 1989-1998 Denver Broncos, 1999 New York Jets
Jerome Bettis, RB – 1993-95 Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams, 1996-2005 Pittsburgh Steelers
Tim Brown, WR/KR – 1988-2003 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders, 2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Cris Carter, WR – 1987-89 Philadelphia Eagles, 1990-2001 Minnesota Vikings, 2002 Miami Dolphins
Don Coryell, Coach – 1973-77 St. Louis Cardinals, 1978-1986 San Diego Chargers
Roger Craig, RB – 1983-1990 San Francisco 49ers, 1991 Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-93 Minnesota Vikings
Terrell Davis, RB – 1995-2001 Denver Broncos
Dermontti Dawson, C – 1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers
Edward DeBartolo, Jr., Owner – 1979-2000 San Francisco 49ers
Chris Doleman, DE/LB – 1985-1993, 1999 Minnesota Vikings, 1994-95 Atlanta Falcons, 1996-98 San Francisco 49ers
Kevin Greene, LB/DE – 1985-1992 Los Angeles Rams, 1993-95 Pittsburgh Steelers, 1996, 1998-99 Carolina Panthers, 1997 San Francisco 49ers
Charles Haley, DE/LB – 1986-1991, 1999 San Francisco 49ers, 1992-96 Dallas Cowboys
Cortez Kennedy, DT – 1990-2000 Seattle Seahawks
Curtis Martin, RB – 1995-97 New England Patriots, 1998-2005 New York Jets
Clay Matthews, LB – 1978-1993 Cleveland Browns, 1994-96 Atlanta Falcons
Karl Mecklenburg, LB – 1983-1994 Denver Broncos
Bill Parcells, Coach – 1983-1990 New York Giants, 1993-96 New England Patriots, 1997-99 New York Jets, 2003-06 Dallas Cowboys
Andre Reed, WR – 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins
Willie Roaf, T – 1993-2001 New Orleans Saints, 2002-05 Kansas City Chiefs
Donnie Shell, S – 1974-1987 Pittsburgh Steelers
Will Shields, G – 1993-2006 Kansas City Chiefs
Paul Tagliabue, Commissioner – 1989-2006 National Football League
Steve Tasker, ST/WR – 1985-86 Houston Oilers, 1986-1997 Buffalo Bills
Aeneas Williams, CB/S – 1991-2000 Phoenix/Arizona Cardinals, 2001-04 St. Louis Rams
Ron Wolf, Contributor – 1963-1974, 1978-1990 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders, 1975-77 Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 1990 New York Jets, 1991 -2001 Green Bay Packers
George Young, Contributor – 1968-1974 Baltimore Colts, 1975-78 Miami Dolphins, 1979-1997 New York Giants, 1998-2001 National Football League
Parcells, Shields, Atwater, Mathews, Mecklenburg and Wolf are first timers at this Semi-final level.
Here is the list of Semi-finalist for the PFHOF Class of 2012:
Don Coryell, Coach – 1973-77 St. Louis Cardinals, 1978-1986 San Diego Chargers
Roger Craig, RB – 1983-1990 San Francisco 49ers, 1991 Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-93 Minnesota
Clay Matthews, LB – 1978-1993 Cleveland Browns, 1994-96 Atlanta Falcons
Andre Reed, WR – 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins
These guys get my vote.
Someday, the HOF Committee will realize Hanford Dixon deserves his props. He was a true "shut down" corner in the beginnings of the pass-happy era.
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Guess what I'm saying Gips is if your team wins a lot of Super Bowls, players gets more consideration than they ought to. Put Swann and Stallworth on other teams- their stats aren't all that great, and I doubt they'd be in. I think my Ham-Matthews comparison backs that up.
Sure, there is absolutely no doubt about that. Of course, it cuts both ways. The 40s/50s Browns would not have had so many in if they were not as good as they were.
And it applies elsewhere as well. See these stats:
Marty Schottenheimer has a career 200-126-1 record
Bill Parcells has a 172-130-1 record
Both retired in 2006. Yet Parcells with the worse record is a HOF finalist and Marty is not.
The obvious difference is tha Parcells won 2 SBs. Marty's postseason record is 5-13. Parcell's postseason record is 11-8
Everyone with more wins than Marty is in the HOF (Shula, Halas, Landry, Lambeau, Brown)
In fact Chuck Knox has more wins than Parcells with about the same winning pct., but he too, like Marty came up short in postseason. Even one title would have probably put these two guys into the HOF. Without that one, they may never make it.
Sure, there is absolutely no doubt about that. Of course, it cuts both ways. The 40s/50s Browns would not have had so many in if they were not as good as they were.
And it applies elsewhere as well. See these stats:
Marty Schottenheimer has a career 200-126-1 record
Bill Parcells has a 172-130-1 record
Both retired in 2006. Yet Parcells with the worse record is a HOF finalist and Marty is not.
The obvious difference is tha Parcells won 2 SBs. Marty's postseason record is 5-13. Parcell's postseason record is 11-8
Everyone with more wins than Marty is in the HOF (Shula, Halas, Landry, Lambeau, Brown)
In fact Chuck Knox has more wins than Parcells with about the same winning pct., but he too, like Marty came up short in postseason. Even one title would have probably put these two guys into the HOF. Without that one, they may never make it.
One last thing- regarding the Steelers. Myron "the Dope" Cope had an an amazing pull with the HOF committee. And I'll use Lynn Swann as exhibit "A". Swann ranks 194th in career yards. Hehe Mac Speedie has more, let's get a big push from the Vet Committee to get him in.
There's 24 more ACTIVE players that beat Swann in yards. He's not even in the top 250 in receptions (as low as Pro Football Reference goes), and 94th in TDs big whoop. He was SO acrobatic when he played though. So I say no, and HELL NO to Shell for HOF. Go put Eric Turner in if you want to marginalize the Hall. If I had a vote, I'd put Felix Wright in ahead of Shell.
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Sure, there is absolutely no doubt about that. Of course, it cuts both ways. The 40s/50s Browns would not have had so many in if they were not as good as they were.
And it applies elsewhere as well. See these stats:
Marty Schottenheimer has a career 200-126-1 record
Bill Parcells has a 172-130-1 record
Both retired in 2006. Yet Parcells with the worse record is a HOF finalist and Marty is not.
The obvious difference is tha Parcells won 2 SBs. Marty's postseason record is 5-13. Parcell's postseason record is 11-8
Everyone with more wins than Marty is in the HOF (Shula, Halas, Landry, Lambeau, Brown)
In fact Chuck Knox has more wins than Parcells with about the same winning pct., but he too, like Marty came up short in postseason. Even one title would have probably put these two guys into the HOF. Without that one, they may never make it.
One last thing- regarding the Steelers. Myron "the Dope" Cope had an an amazing pull with the HOF committee. And I'll use Lynn Swann as exhibit "A". Swann ranks 194th in career yards. Hehe Mac Speedie has more, let's get a big push from the Vet Committee to get him in.
There's 24 more ACTIVE players that beat Swann in yards. He's not even in the top 250 in receptions (as low as Pro Football Reference goes), and 94th in TDs big whoop. He was SO acrobatic when he played though. So I say no, and HELL NO to Shell for HOF. Go put Eric Turner in if you want to marginalize the Hall. If I had a vote, I'd put Felix Wright in ahead of Shell.
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Only the following semifinalists, if inducted could add to the count of the teams in the prior post:
If Roger Craig and Charles Haley were inducted that would bring the 80s 49ers count to 8 HOFers (it seems given the other dynasties in history that the 49ers are "underrepresented")
If Shell were inducted that would give the 70s Steelers 11 and a tie for the most with the Packers
If Dick Stanfel is inducted that would give those 50s Lions 7 HOFers.
Only the following semifinalists, if inducted could add to the count of the teams in the prior post:
If Roger Craig and Charles Haley were inducted that would bring the 80s 49ers count to 8 HOFers (it seems given the other dynasties in history that the 49ers are "underrepresented")
If Shell were inducted that would give the 70s Steelers 11 and a tie for the most with the Packers
If Dick Stanfel is inducted that would give those 50s Lions 7 HOFers.
Donnie Shell would have probably already made it if he played for another team, and Hollywood Bags as well
Offense Wins.......Franchise QB's are the key.............Defense keeps you in the game.........Go Buckeyes -
My Five
Cris Carter, WR – 1987-89 Philadelphia Eagles, 1990-2001 Minnesota Vikings, 2002 Miami Dolphins
Charles Haley, DE/LB – 1986-1991, 1999 San Francisco 49ers, 1992-96 Dallas Cowboys
Clay Matthews, LB – 1978-1993 Cleveland Browns, 1994-96 Atlanta Falcons
Bill Parcells, Coach – 1983-1990 New York Giants, 1993-96 New England Patriots, 1997-99 New York Jets, 2003-06 Dallas Cowboys
Andre Reed, WR – 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins
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Only the following semifinalists, if inducted could add to the count of the teams in the prior post:
If Roger Craig and Charles Haley were inducted that would bring the 80s 49ers count to 8 HOFers (it seems given the other dynasties in history that the 49ers are "underrepresented")
If Shell were inducted that would give the 70s Steelers 11 and a tie for the most with the Packers
If Dick Stanfel is inducted that would give those 50s Lions 7 HOFers.
Donnie Shell would have probably already made it if he played for another team, and Hollywood Bags as well
Donnie Shell would have probably already made it if he played for another team, and Hollywood Bags as well
Would he? I am not so sure.
If he should go in, then why shouldn't Warren Lahr go in? He had 44 career ints., taking 5 back for TDs and played on 4 championship teams..,..in a career about 3-4 years shorter than Shell.
or how about these other candidates who are arguably better, but not in the HOF:
Ken Riley, Bengals
Dave Brown, Seahawks (Akron, Oh. native)
Pat Fischer, Cardinals
Jack Butler, Steelers
All with better career stats than Shell. The only difference is they didn't play on a SB winner.
Don't get me wrong, Shell was a good player, but perhaps the committee would be better putting Steeler Butler and these others in ahead of Steeler Shell
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yeah that's just ignorant. Bradshaw and Swann don't have any hall-worthy numbers other than 4 Superbowl wins, but they are in there because they played for the Stoolers. So to say some other Stooler would get in if he played for a different team is dumb.
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