Colt Mccoy And Ben Watson Held Out Of Practice
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I want Colt.
Why?
We haven't had a consistent starter for 16 games since 2002. Seriously.
Predicted Records:2010: 8-82011: 8-82012: 9-72013: 5-112014: 6-10 -
I think that was Watson's third concussion this year. It wouldn't be a surprise if he goes on the IR.
Seems doubtful that McCoy plays this weekend. Depending on the severity of his injury, we may not see him again this year either, that was a very HARD hit. Multiple concussions can end a football career.
The backup QB is always the most popular guy in Cleveland. Not that McCoy has been tearing it up, but I'm not getting excited about watching Seneca Wallace play either. Seems doubtful that anyone thinks 31 year old career-backup Wallace is the long term answer.
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I want Colt.
Why?
We haven't had a consistent starter for 16 games since 2002. Seriously.
I want Colt.
Why?
We haven't had a consistent starter for 16 games since 2002. Seriously.
I'm not ok with consistent shit though. Let's see what Seneca brings to help judge how Colt's been doing.
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He has regressed this year certainly. I believe that Mccoy has shown great passion and hard work ethic. He's a tough competitor that just can't compete in this league right now. He does lack the ability to "fit" the ball into coverage, and some throws of his have shown arm weakness also. He just isnt consistent, which is whats killing the Browns. Lack of consistent offensive production
Agreed, granted he has spent most of this season running, as the offesnive line has been weak, but even when he had the time, his throws were late. He doesn't get the anticipation well at all it seems. Not sure how he did so well in college, but sure seems weak at this level.
On another note, his receiving corps is the worst, but that doesn't really give excuse for bad decisions in the pocket by the QB.
Agreed, granted he has spent most of this season running, as the offesnive line has been weak, but even when he had the time, his throws were late. He doesn't get the anticipation well at all it seems. Not sure how he did so well in college, but sure seems weak at this level.
On another note, his receiving corps is the worst, but that doesn't really give excuse for bad decisions in the pocket by the QB.
First off, I like Colt. I like his toughness, his enthusiasm, his leadership. That said...
I watched the Tennessee-New Orleans game yesterday. I was struck by both offenses and the plays that we Browns fans never see---throws hitting the receivers in stride, the ball being on time as the receiver comes out of his break, RB's hitting into the line, then bouncing to the outside for positive yardage (Sorry, that's another thread entirely).
I know it is unfair to compare Colt this early in his career to a veteran like Drew Brees. But I watched Jake Locker (?), a rookie back-up, standing tall with pocket presence, throwing the ball with zip down the field, stretching the defense play after play. Hitting the receivers in stride, on time out of their breaks.
Colt just doesn't look like he's on the same level. From what I've seen, Colt threw a pretty good ball in college. I know that the NFL ball is a little fatter than the college ball---are his hands to small for the NFL ball? He says his shoulder is fine, but is it really? The ball doesn't come out with any zip, any authority, even when he has time to survey the field and deliver the ball.
That, along with his lack of accuracy is very worrisome. I'm glad I don't have Holmgrens' job.
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You forgot to mention that Marecic was out today with a concussion as well.
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You forgot to mention that Marecic was out today with a concussion as well.
Hillis-iz-Boss said:
You forgot to mention that Marecic was out today with a concussion as well.
Because nobody cares about Owen Marecic. He's garbage.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Agreed, granted he has spent most of this season running, as the offesnive line has been weak, but even when he had the time, his throws were late. He doesn't get the anticipation well at all it seems. Not sure how he did so well in college, but sure seems weak at this level.
On another note, his receiving corps is the worst, but that doesn't really give excuse for bad decisions in the pocket by the QB.
First off, I like Colt. I like his toughness, his enthusiasm, his leadership. That said...
I watched the Tennessee-New Orleans game yesterday. I was struck by both offenses and the plays that we Browns fans never see---throws hitting the receivers in stride, the ball being on time as the receiver comes out of his break, RB's hitting into the line, then bouncing to the outside for positive yardage (Sorry, that's another thread entirely).
I know it is unfair to compare Colt this early in his career to a veteran like Drew Brees. But I watched Jake Locker (?), a rookie back-up, standing tall with pocket presence, throwing the ball with zip down the field, stretching the defense play after play. Hitting the receivers in stride, on time out of their breaks.
Colt just doesn't look like he's on the same level. From what I've seen, Colt threw a pretty good ball in college. I know that the NFL ball is a little fatter than the college ball---are his hands to small for the NFL ball? He says his shoulder is fine, but is it really? The ball doesn't come out with any zip, any authority, even when he has time to survey the field and deliver the ball.
That, along with his lack of accuracy is very worrisome. I'm glad I don't have Holmgrens' job.
First off, I like Colt. I like his toughness, his enthusiasm, his leadership. That said...
I watched the Tennessee-New Orleans game yesterday. I was struck by both offenses and the plays that we Browns fans never see---throws hitting the receivers in stride, the ball being on time as the receiver comes out of his break, RB's hitting into the line, then bouncing to the outside for positive yardage (Sorry, that's another thread entirely).
I know it is unfair to compare Colt this early in his career to a veteran like Drew Brees. But I watched Jake Locker (?), a rookie back-up, standing tall with pocket presence, throwing the ball with zip down the field, stretching the defense play after play. Hitting the receivers in stride, on time out of their breaks.
Colt just doesn't look like he's on the same level. From what I've seen, Colt threw a pretty good ball in college. I know that the NFL ball is a little fatter than the college ball---are his hands to small for the NFL ball? He says his shoulder is fine, but is it really? The ball doesn't come out with any zip, any authority, even when he has time to survey the field and deliver the ball.
That, along with his lack of accuracy is very worrisome. I'm glad I don't have Holmgrens' job.
I'm glad you dont have his job, too. hands too small? come ooooon man.
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Keep Colt. Look at alex smith for example, his stats since '05 have been bad and even atrocious, but this year (with a consistent running game and time to throw) has looked like a much different qb. If you are going to compare Colt to any other quarterback doing better you're wasting your time, unless you gave each qb the same line and weapons to work with. We've had too much change on this team, we need a foundation before we can start building the walls and roof. Give the coach more than a year for a chance instead of crying mutiny, and support Colt.
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Hillis-iz-Boss said:
You forgot to mention that Marecic was out today with a concussion as well.
Because nobody cares about Owen Marecic. He's garbage.
Because nobody cares about Owen Marecic. He's garbage.
Just cause his name isn't Vickers. I watched Vickers play against the Bengals on TV and when it was over I was trying to figure out why everyone sucks his dick all the time. He never blew ANYONE UP during the game. What he did do was what he did here, which is stalemate people at the line and make his RB try to run around him, pull outside and dive at players knees in a cheap attempt to get a block, and drop a wide open pass that would have gone for a first down... wait he didn't drop it he basically brick smacked it out of the air. He isn't the player that the media has romanticized him to be.
Marecic has had one season, he is already a way better catcher than Vickers and the only difference in their blocking is that Marecic doesn't dive at peoples knees endangering their careers. Bitch at me if you want but Vickers isn't that great and Marecic isn't that bad.
Ruining threads since 1897. -
First off, I like Colt. I like his toughness, his enthusiasm, his leadership. That said...
I watched the Tennessee-New Orleans game yesterday. I was struck by both offenses and the plays that we Browns fans never see---throws hitting the receivers in stride, the ball being on time as the receiver comes out of his break, RB's hitting into the line, then bouncing to the outside for positive yardage (Sorry, that's another thread entirely).
I know it is unfair to compare Colt this early in his career to a veteran like Drew Brees. But I watched Jake Locker (?), a rookie back-up, standing tall with pocket presence, throwing the ball with zip down the field, stretching the defense play after play. Hitting the receivers in stride, on time out of their breaks.
Colt just doesn't look like he's on the same level. From what I've seen, Colt threw a pretty good ball in college. I know that the NFL ball is a little fatter than the college ball---are his hands to small for the NFL ball? He says his shoulder is fine, but is it really? The ball doesn't come out with any zip, any authority, even when he has time to survey the field and deliver the ball.
That, along with his lack of accuracy is very worrisome. I'm glad I don't have Holmgrens' job.
I'm glad you dont have his job, too. hands too small? come ooooon man.
I'm glad you dont have his job, too. hands too small? come ooooon man.
Wow. You got me.
His hands are fukking huge. So why does every single ball he throws look like it has helium in it. Why does a wide open receiver have to stop and wait for the ball, or leap five feet in the air to make the catch--insuring no YAC. Either something is physically wrong or he just doesn't have what it takes to be a top-tier NFL QB.
I know he threw a good ball at Texas. Whatever he had in college hasn't transferred to the NFL. He doesn't look like the same guy.
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I'm glad you dont have his job, too. hands too small? come ooooon man.
Wow. You got me.
His hands are fukking huge. So why does every single ball he throws look like it has helium in it. Why does a wide open receiver have to stop and wait for the ball, or leap five feet in the air to make the catch--insuring no YAC. Either something is physically wrong or he just doesn't have what it takes to be a top-tier NFL QB.
I know he threw a good ball at Texas. Whatever he had in college hasn't transferred to the NFL. He doesn't look like the same guy.
Wow. You got me.
His hands are fukking huge. So why does every single ball he throws look like it has helium in it. Why does a wide open receiver have to stop and wait for the ball, or leap five feet in the air to make the catch--insuring no YAC. Either something is physically wrong or he just doesn't have what it takes to be a top-tier NFL QB.
I know he threw a good ball at Texas. Whatever he had in college hasn't transferred to the NFL. He doesn't look like the same guy.
well there you go. youve managed to figure it all out. good deal. draft a new qb and everything will be peachy. i swear to God its amazing to me that more than half of the people on the board can not see what is killing this team. it is a lack of continuity. you have to give your QB time to figure this system out and surround him with veteran leadership and supporting talent, that way you can build a base on corporate knowledge. the system is more than just the WCO, it has to run deeper than that and right now the culture of instability and impatience is the undoing of this team. thats my 2 cents. i say give colt a while to get this thing off the ground and surround him with talent.
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Wow. You got me.
His hands are fukking huge. So why does every single ball he throws look like it has helium in it. Why does a wide open receiver have to stop and wait for the ball, or leap five feet in the air to make the catch--insuring no YAC. Either something is physically wrong or he just doesn't have what it takes to be a top-tier NFL QB.
I know he threw a good ball at Texas. Whatever he had in college hasn't transferred to the NFL. He doesn't look like the same guy.
well there you go. youve managed to figure it all out. good deal. draft a new qb and everything will be peachy. i swear to God its amazing to me that more than half of the people on the board can not see what is killing this team. it is a lack of continuity. you have to give your QB time to figure this system out and surround him with veteran leadership and supporting talent, that way you can build a base on corporate knowledge. the system is more than just the WCO, it has to run deeper than that and right now the culture of instability and impatience is the undoing of this team. thats my 2 cents. i say give colt a while to get this thing off the ground and surround him with talent.
well there you go. youve managed to figure it all out. good deal. draft a new qb and everything will be peachy. i swear to God its amazing to me that more than half of the people on the board can not see what is killing this team. it is a lack of continuity. you have to give your QB time to figure this system out and surround him with veteran leadership and supporting talent, that way you can build a base on corporate knowledge. the system is more than just the WCO, it has to run deeper than that and right now the culture of instability and impatience is the undoing of this team. thats my 2 cents. i say give colt a while to get this thing off the ground and surround him with talent.
BTW, what Colt had at UT was a phenomenal amount of talent surrounding him, a supportive coaching staff, a line that could block, chemistry with a true #1 reciever, an offseason to work with his OC and recievers on the offense, a consistent running game, and the list goes on. apples and oranges. What it WILL take for Colt to be successful with the Browns is time. You can draft QB or you can stick in your backup now and call Colt a wash, but I think it would be a mistake.
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In college you can throw the ball when the receiver is open and it can turn into huge plays because one team has dominating talent over the other. Or one player is just on another level than the others. In the NFL it's about anticipation, throwing the receiver open, or throwing to where only the receiver can get it. From what i see, even when Colt has time, he lacks all three on a consistent basis.
While this team does have a gross amount of drops, it still doesn't change the fact that right now, he's not a good NFL qb at all.
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Wow. You got me.
His hands are fukking huge. So why does every single ball he throws look like it has helium in it. Why does a wide open receiver have to stop and wait for the ball, or leap five feet in the air to make the catch--insuring no YAC. Either something is physically wrong or he just doesn't have what it takes to be a top-tier NFL QB.
I know he threw a good ball at Texas. Whatever he had in college hasn't transferred to the NFL. He doesn't look like the same guy.
well there you go. youve managed to figure it all out. good deal. draft a new qb and everything will be peachy. i swear to God its amazing to me that more than half of the people on the board can not see what is killing this team. it is a lack of continuity. you have to give your QB time to figure this system out and surround him with veteran leadership and supporting talent, that way you can build a base on corporate knowledge. the system is more than just the WCO, it has to run deeper than that and right now the culture of instability and impatience is the undoing of this team. thats my 2 cents. i say give colt a while to get this thing off the ground and surround him with talent.
well there you go. youve managed to figure it all out. good deal. draft a new qb and everything will be peachy. i swear to God its amazing to me that more than half of the people on the board can not see what is killing this team. it is a lack of continuity. you have to give your QB time to figure this system out and surround him with veteran leadership and supporting talent, that way you can build a base on corporate knowledge. the system is more than just the WCO, it has to run deeper than that and right now the culture of instability and impatience is the undoing of this team. thats my 2 cents. i say give colt a while to get this thing off the ground and surround him with talent.
I understand your point. My original point was that I'm glad I don't have Holmgrens job because Colt does show flashes of what could be. Like the first drive the other night in Pittsburgh. He looked crisp, moved the ball down the field, and then was done in by lousy play calling at the goal line.
Believe me, I KNOW that the supporting cast is next to non-existent. I fully realize that he was surrounded by talent at UT. I get it.
But my point is that there looks like something is wrong when it comes to his arm strength. Simply watching other games on Sunday and comparing him with QB's around the leage, it is apparent that the ball just seems to float out of his hand--no zip. To me, that is very worrisome. BTW, I never said dump Colt and draft a new QB--But a decision has to be made soon based on everything we've seen from him so far. His seeming lack of arm strength--to me--is a red flag. And it makes the whole 'just be patient' argument hard to swallow. If we go all in on Colt and he DOESN'T turn out to be the man, then we're dooming ourselves to several more years of 5 win seasons. Once again, I'M GLAD I DON'T HAVE TO MAKE THIS DECISION.
One last thing. It appears that your interest in the Browns begins and ends with the Colt-UT connection. I attended my first Browns game in 1967 and have lived and died with this team and had my heart ripped out more times than I care to count. We won't even discuss the on-field abortion that has been the last 12 years. 'Having patience', 'giving things time to develop'---I've been patient and waiting for 45 years--I'm ready to see some fukking results. Most of the people on this board (including me) would love to see Colt succeed. I'd also like to see a Super Bowl run before I'm wearing a diaper and having my food pureed.
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Because nobody cares about Owen Marecic. He's garbage.
Just cause his name isn't Vickers. I watched Vickers play against the Bengals on TV and when it was over I was trying to figure out why everyone sucks his dick all the time. He never blew ANYONE UP during the game. What he did do was what he did here, which is stalemate people at the line and make his RB try to run around him, pull outside and dive at players knees in a cheap attempt to get a block, and drop a wide open pass that would have gone for a first down... wait he didn't drop it he basically brick smacked it out of the air. He isn't the player that the media has romanticized him to be.
Marecic has had one season, he is already a way better catcher than Vickers and the only difference in their blocking is that Marecic doesn't dive at peoples knees endangering their careers. Bitch at me if you want but Vickers isn't that great and Marecic isn't that bad.
Hillis-iz-Boss said:
Just cause his name isn't Vickers. I watched Vickers play against the Bengals on TV and when it was over I was trying to figure out why everyone sucks his dick all the time. He never blew ANYONE UP during the game. What he did do was what he did here, which is stalemate people at the line and make his RB try to run around him, pull outside and dive at players knees in a cheap attempt to get a block, and drop a wide open pass that would have gone for a first down... wait he didn't drop it he basically brick smacked it out of the air. He isn't the player that the media has romanticized him to be.
Marecic has had one season, he is already a way better catcher than Vickers and the only difference in their blocking is that Marecic doesn't dive at peoples knees endangering their careers. Bitch at me if you want but Vickers isn't that great and Marecic isn't that bad.
I never said Vickers was great, but if you think Marecic is good you must be watching a different player than I have. Marecic has yet to make any sort of impact block, whiffs in pass coverage, and is slow out of the backfield. His catching ability leaves a lot to be desired, as does his route running. In short, he is in the NFL what he was in college, he's shown no progression and the main reason we drafted him was because he was a two way player, so he would be fine playing a little offense and a bunch of special teams.
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There are REAL doubts about Colt's ability to compete at this level, regardless of the talent surrounding him. Given more time in the pocket, would he start to settle in, likely yes, but if you compare him to other rookie and second year QB's, he still looks like he cannot make a solid decision or play NFL level. Is he gun shy now, from being pounded for several weeks ? Probably, but that's what should make him a leader or not, being able to rise above it. When he had Delhomme working with him on the sideline talking, training, sharing stories and experiences, coaching, mentoring, he did better last year than this year. He had more than many others in Delhome, but he also had Dubol screeching in his helmet and still looked better. What is up with this kid ? Is he going to step it up or not ? If he had receivers would he start throwing to their chests or even within reach ? That's the concern.
He absolutely should not have gone back in last week, so that loss (and his not returning, allowing Wallace to likely get the TD) was the coaching staff's FU. However, what was the difference between the first half and the second ? Was he simply allowed more latitude in teh first vs. the second, did he pass better, was the protection any different, did he just get rattled ???? That SHOULD have been a W for the Browns ... as at least 2 - 3 other games. This team has such little chemistry it's pathetic this late into the season, but to say that is one of Colt's major issues, I have my doubts. I was on board up until about 3 weeks ago and now can't see this kid developing like he seemed to be / should be.
It could easily be argued that Shurmur's lack of leadership and decision making is contagious. Just can't see us going back to the drawing board AGAIN. Every seaosn is rebuilding year, young team, etc., etc. Enough's enough !
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Colt is at best a long term project and at worst an excellent backup QB, with that said when this season started i was more concerned about colts durability than about his arm strength and capabilities,13 games later im not worried about the kids durability he is a really tuff kid and his arm while nothing special is strong enough however the game just seems to fast for him and he often misses short windows of opportunity in nearly every drive by anticipating to long before release and or scanning past a wide open guy when the heat is on only to throw to a heavily covered pre- determined dump target for a loss or minimal gain..
I have also grown dubious of colts leadership capabilities on the field as the kid never has a look of confidence or certainty about himself and overall looks like a genuine 3rd or 4th round pick, now in his defense i dont think shurmur has done anything to help this young journeyman and i currently do not think highly of shurmurs often over conservative non attacking approach to offense or colts over conservative, over anticipating approach on the field..
Seneca wallace should fare better than colt mccoy due to fully understanding the offense and having a knack of when to let it rip in those short window opportunities however the real questions about wallace have more to do with accuracy and properly reading defenses before letting it rip for a pick 6..
Either way i look forward to seeing what wallace can do in this offense and i was utterly disgusted with shurmurs decision to unnecessarily bring a foggy eyed colt back in 2 plays after getting decked when wallace appeared to be doing just fine and the element of surprise was with us not even mangini would have made such a stupid and moronic decision..
But that is another topic in the play to lose coaching and poor decision making department..
I will just say daboll was far more offensive minded than shurmur and that is an insult aimed directly at holmgren and heckert..
Thusfar shurmur has proven he got the HC job because of who he knows not because of what he knows, this may be the worst coach the browns have ever had and that is saying a lot..
Shurmur wasnt even ready to be a full on OC let alone a head coach..
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