Even Rachel Maddow, Mega Lib Pundit On Msnbc Agrees That

[Kosar_For_President]

@heckofajobbrownie said:

I'm with Maddow on this one.

How the two of us being against Obama singing this bill somehow vindicates your vile and moronic opinions, well, I have no idea. But I've long since given up trying to understand how you don't think.

Heck what the heck do you mean? Signing this bill strips AMERICAN citizens of OUR rights, not "terrorists" taken from other countries. I do not buy into the "martial law" bullshit the paranoid Alex Jones listeners like Bunker do here, but this is a blatant disreguard of the Bill of Rights and is most definitively wrong.

[heckofajobbrownie]

@kosar_for_president said:

Heck what the heck do you mean? Signing this bill strips AMERICAN citizens of OUR rights, not "terrorists" taken from other countries. I do not buy into the "martial law" bullshit the paranoid Alex Jones listeners like Bunker do here, but this is a blatant disreguard of the Bill of Rights and is most definitively wrong.

That's what I'm saying. I'm with Maddow on this one, though I didn't watch the clip. This, to me, is simply unconstitutional, and I hope it's addressed by Congress separately, though I wouldn't count on it. We'll see.

I'm glad the president basically said "I'm not going to use this power" but it's now law for anyone else to use in the future. And for all of those so angry at Obama over all of this, where were you when Bush was indefinitely detaining - and some would argue torturing - Jose Padilla, an American citizen, and for years?

Oh, yeah. I was the one raising that issue back then, and you guys were defending it. Now that Obama's signed a law saying a president can do something similar, you guys are talking about the end of the Bill of Rights. And then lecturing me about partisanship and inconsistency.

Classic.

PS - Steve, would you like me to amass all the liberals who are speaking out against the president on this provision? Just because you aren't aware of them that dpesn't mean they don't exist. I've been reading stuff about this issue for weeks, and the complaints were raised almost entirely by liberal pundits and scholars.

[Westside Steve]

Don't bother Heck.

I'm sure that's where he lions share of dissent came from.

What I say is that had it been Bush or Cheney people like Maddow would be screaming a lot louder.

And even if you, sir, couldn't help yourself but to try to mitigate the situation.

And as much as I like to see the guy attacked I really don't have a problem with this.

WSS

[Mr. T]

@heckofajobbrownie said:

I'm with Maddow on this one.

How the two of us being against Obama singing this bill somehow vindicates your vile and moronic opinions, well, I have no idea. But I've long since given up trying to understand how you don't think.

Are you saying people who state their opinions are morons because they haven't been cloned via heck?

Well if any truth be told, I have never been in favor of the patriot act let alone this new law. We no longer can hold up the "Bill of Rights" and say that we are a FREE Nation. Where is the protection that seems to bring millions of people to the states who are seeking refuge from tyrants across the world? I suppose gun confiscation will be the next item on the

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[Pumpkin Eater]

I fully support the bill and President Obama and I am also looking forward to additional measures to be taken in the future.

[heckofajobbrownie]

@westside-steve said:

Don't bother Heck.

I'm sure that's where he lions share of dissent came from.

What I say is that had it been Bush or Cheney people like Maddow would be screaming a lot louder.

WSS

You've really got to start asking yourself if this is a point worth making 15 times a week.

[Westside Steve]

@heckofajobbrownie said:

You've really got to start asking yourself if this is a point worth making 15 times a week.

As long as it's still true....

And as long as you keep denying it...

WSS

[heckofajobbrownie]

What a treat for us. Steve thinks partisanship exists. Also that water is wet, and egg salad smells bad.

[Chicopee John]

>>That's what I'm saying. I'm with Maddow on this one, though I didn't watch the clip.>>

Have you watched the clip yet, Heck?

If so, what did you think RE: her detail, documentation, etc.

If you haven't, why not?

[osusev]

Whether its Obama, Bush Jr,Clinton, Bush Sr, Reagan its all the same.

All of them have been consolidating power and reducing executive/government accountability to the public. In that regard they are all the same and all motivated to stay in position with the most power and least chance of personal repercussions.

I Hate this and cant for the life of me understand the lack of outrage.... This at this point is not about party politics, this is about how we fundamentally define the basic axioms of who we are as a society.

They are tearing down the values and protections that this country was founded on.

[calfoxwc]

So, you agree with me and Maddow that Obamao is a hypocrite, and the evidence is right there.

The bigger problem is, Obamao's disregard for the law. He won't enforce the marriage act. He illegally just recently recess appointed

three people with NO recess occuring. The Dems did the same maneuver, opening and closing sessions and not recessing, to stop Bush.

Bush listened to the legal opinions that those appts. could not be legal. Clinton's attorneys said the same thing to him.

But Obamao doesn't care - he went ahead and defied the law. That makes him a dirtbag who relies on the Dem maj in the Senate to

keep him safe from legal consequences. We already posted about the dirtbag intentional flow of weapons to Mexico. It's a gigantic scandal.

He already slammed the decision of the Supreme Court in his state of the union address..........no president in my lifetime, maybe ever, has EVER done that.

But over the top arrogant marxist nutjobs do.

So, when a president openly violates the law, his "word" is fine by Heck when Obamao says "yeah, but I won't do it."....

Truth is.... Obamao himself insisted that that language for detaining Americans.... be put into the bill. That's true, and behind the scenes.

We're in big, big trouble. Martial law is the only way for Obamao to accomplish his anti gun ownership, anti capitalist, anti-republic,

anti-American, anti-business bigotry. That is what hardcore marxists do. They lie to get into office, then they create a giant "crisis" so they

can rule without any opposition.

I said Obamao is a freakin hypocrite, and now Maddow sees the light. Thanks for joining the party, Heck, when you really

had no choice, and no flimsy dishonest rationalization at your beck and call.

[heckofajobbrownie]

@chicopee-john said:

>>That's what I'm saying. I'm with Maddow on this one, though I didn't watch the clip.>>

Have you watched the clip yet, Heck?

If so, what did you think RE: her detail, documentation, etc.

If you haven't, why not?

Because I follow this stuff pretty closely. I know what the issues are. But Rachel is great. I'm sure she laid out the case well.

I'll watch it at some point.

[calfoxwc]

Yep. Heck admits I am great, by reference.

If I was so wrong, Heck, how is it that Maddow, and now you, agree with me? eh?

Obamao IS a hypocritical, lying dirtbag. that is what Maddow just DIDN'T say.

[heckofajobbrownie]

By the way, I just watched the clip and I think she's wrong about some things, and skirting the reality of the legal issues for the sake of purity. As in, what happens when you can't bring evidence to trial because the evidence was obtained through torture? That's what Obama's talking about. That's what everyone knows has been coming down the pike. Well, in our system, that evidence is inadmissible.

So what do you do with people who are sworn enemies of the country, who still pose a threat, but you can't bring to a trial? Well, you obviously can't release them. So you have to create some sort of new framework that jibes with the Constitution. And that's what they're doing.

The more odious provisions of the new legislation have to do with indefinitely detaining American citizens caught on American soil, in my opinion, and not the ones Maddow is talking about.

[calfoxwc]

The point of the matter is, the fraudulent posturing by Obamao before, and his actions afterwards.

On the 2nd Amendment.

On closing Gitmo.

On going civilian trials for terrorists. Only three terrorists were ever waterboarded, btw, at Gitmo..

That's a bogus issue to defend Obamao with. That leaves hundreds of terrorists

who he wanted to treat differently, for the sake of politics.

Once in office, the difference with Obamao is huge. No Americans have been "tortured" for evidence.

Now that Obamao is in the WH, he sees things as they are, not as he fraudulently portrayed them before the election,

for strictly gaining political office and power purposes.

[Westside Steve]

Cal, of course it was all about winning the election.

Closing Gitmo was a stupid idea.

I don't suppose anybody in government thought that was going to happen.

I basically agreed with heck and the president on signing this bill. Just the same way that I support the patriot act. We live in times in which tough measures sometimes need to be taken.

The rest of the world doesn't play by the pollyanna rules that the united states imposes upon itself.

However I would also like to point out that just because you are an american citizen on American soil does not mean that you can't be an enemy combatant.

WSS

[heckofajobbrownie]

I was all for closing Gitmo, and still am. But it was something the Republicans - and some Democrats - blocked the president from doing. Incidentally, George Bush and John McCain were also in favor of closing that prison. So the idea that this was some sort of pretend cause for the election is just crap. Those prisoners aren't superhuman and if they were held in Supermax in Colorado (like a bunch of other terrorists are) from the start no one would have known the difference, or cared. But once people take sides, there's no reasoning with them.

And I don't agree with signing this bill, Steve. It's somewhat better that Obama issued the signing statement saying he's not going to use that power, but he's also signing a law that says the next president can, mostly because they changed it at the last minute so that it's basically the president's call when it comes to American citizens. They can be tried in military courts and detained indefinitely if the executive branch says so.

This, to me, is not Constitutional. Even if you're suspected of being an enemy combatant, you're still an American citizen. And when you're picked up on American soil you're afforded your rights to due process. It's spelled out right there in the Constitution.

And it's not just civil libertarians and ACLU types who didn't like this bill. Many in the FBI, CIA, and law enforcement spoke out against it. They think it's going to make it harder to do their job because the suspects are mandated into the military justice system rather than the civilian system everyone is used to using, and has served us just fine for a couple centuries.

I know you're not a big fan of the Constitution, and like to dispense with its provisions routinely. We've been over lots of those. And I always enjoy how you talk about government ineptitude and waste and fraud and corruption 98% of the time, but when it comes time to trust the government to lock up all the right people (despite the reality that we often don't) you'd like to trust their competency completely.

[Westside Steve]

Well, as long is bam bam says he won't really enforce it....

sheesh.

Anyway the constitution and the Bible are the 2 most over quoted and under adhered to documents in the world. Not much more than a slogan.

But please don't let that dampen the excitement you get from the tale of the cherry tree or the silver dollar across the Potomac.

WSS

[Westside Steve]

And oh no! Bush and McCain?

I better change my tune pronto!!!

[heckofajobbrownie]

The Constitution is nothing more than a slogan?

Embrace that inner crank. It's in full bloom now.

Also, you've broken out that cherry tree line 2-3 times now. Lords knows what you think it says, or what it has to do with the Constitution, but congratulations.

(Why can I not stop talking to you? It confounds me.)