Mike Holmgren Says He Is Setting The Foundation In Cleveland Properly

[Kosar_For_President]

Endymion said:

What do you expect Mike Holmgren to say, "I'm trying screw the Browns up worse than Matt Millen did with the Lions?"

He's not. He's building through the draft. The drafts Heckert has have been awesome. Yea we missed on Jones, but Blackman is better and we get their #22.

Millen's drafts were the worst in league history.

[choco]

heckerts drafts have been OK....hardly awesome. some good young talent, some risk picks that weren't so hot.

however, the draft ios only one of heckerts jobs. FA was a complete no show...the few he did sign were were weak depth.

[Kosar_For_President]

@choco said:

heckerts drafts have been OK....hardly awesome. some good young talent, some risk picks that weren't so hot.

however, the draft ios only one of heckerts jobs. FA was a complete no show...the few he did sign were were weak depth.

I disagree. Compare them to other teams and we are defo in the top 10 maybe top 5 for the last 2 years. Sure some 5th, 6th, etc picks don't work out. Our first picks have been good. Unfourtunely most of them were on defense. Trust in the Walrus and Heckert, this is going to turn out good, just watch. On to the offense this year.

Check the highlighted sentence in my first post. 100% true.

"I think we all saw teams last season, the spectacular free agent offseasons don’t necessarily guarantee success so we have to use our money properly, make good decisions, but that’s how we’re building our football team". Philly, the Jets, etc, they all sign a bunch in FA for nothing.

I am 100% certain the Browns are not taking a QB.

[jrb12711]

@kosar_for_president said:

I disagree. Compare them to other teams and we are defo in the top 10 maybe top 5 for the last 2 years. Sure some 5th, 6th, etc picks don't work out. Our first picks have been good. Unfourtunely most of them were on defense. Trust in the Walrus and Heckert, this is going to turn out good, just watch. On to the offense this year.

Check the highlighted sentence in my first post. 100% true.

"I think we all saw teams last season, the spectacular free agent offseasons don’t necessarily guarantee success so we have to use our money properly, make good decisions, but that’s how we’re building our football team". Philly, the Jets, etc, they all sign a bunch in FA for nothing.

I am 100% certain the Browns are not taking a QB.

I think they'll take a QB in the draft but I feel it's going to be in the 3rd or 4th round range or later. Holmgren has made it clear he wants a QB competition coming into training camp this year and unless Seneca gets three wishes from a genie he can't compete for a starting position.

[choco]

haden - good pick...no brainer.

ward - ok pick....good run support, pass liability. injury issues recently.

hardesty - not only a bad pick, but we spent 2 additional 5ths to move up.

colt - ok pick....will be a backup soon. still a good value pick.

lavauo - bad pick....started, but got handled all year. needs replaced.

asante - bad pick....didn't make the cut

mitchell - bad pick....who?

geathers - bad pick...off the team.

taylor - good pick....should form a good tandem with rubin.

sheard - good pick....looks legit

little - ok pick.....he'll round into a decent player i think, but rookie year was rough.

cameron - bad pick....has potential. project TE in the forth?

maercic - ok pick....got better as the year wore on. still too small for those shoes tho...

skrine - ok pick...little speedster may make fine nickel back.

pinkston - good pick....held up OK as a 6th round starting guard. should get better...

hagg - ok pick....wanna see more...

jmo...but just because they're sere alot of rookie starters doesn't mean they deserved it or excelled. pinky was the only one i thought stepped in during a crisis and elevated his game.

[Kosar_For_President]

@choco said:

haden - good pick...no brainer.

ward - ok pick....good run support, pass liability. injury issues recently.

hardesty - not only a bad pick, but we spent 2 additional 5ths to move up.

colt - ok pick....will be a backup soon. still a good value pick.

lavauo - bad pick....started, but got handled all year. needs replaced.

asante - bad pick....didn't make the cut

mitchell - bad pick....who?

geathers - bad pick...off the team.

taylor - good pick....should form a good tandem with rubin.

sheard - good pick....looks legit

little - ok pick.....he'll round into a decent player i think, but rookie year was rough.

cameron - bad pick....has potential. project TE in the forth?

maercic - ok pick....got better as the year wore on. still too small for those shoes tho...

skrine - ok pick...little speedster may make fine nickel back.

pinkston - good pick....held up OK as a 6th round starting guard. should get better...

hagg - ok pick....wanna see more...

jmo...but just because they're sere alot of rookie starters doesn't mean they deserved it or excelled. pinky was the only one i thought stepped in during a crisis and elevated his game.

That is a damn good ratio man. Only 2 years. I think Ward was a good pick. Cameron sucks agreed. When some of these picks don't work out, you are still building the team with depth.

[The Gipper]

@choco said:

haden - good pick...no brainer.

ward - ok pick....good run support, pass liability. injury issues recently. I think he was better than OK...when he played.

hardesty - not only a bad pick, but we spent 2 additional 5ths to move up.

colt - ok pick....will be a backup soon. still a good value pick.

lavauo - bad pick....started, but got handled all year. needs replaced.

I don't think any player that becomes a starter should be considered "bad". I would say he is a neutral pick....and the fact is, if he had a better RT next to him, his value could improve.

asante - bad pick....didn't make the cut

mitchell - bad pick....who? Just being on the team as a 6th pick is an accomplishment. Need to note his injury situation as well.

geathers - bad pick...off the team.

taylor - good pick....should form a good tandem with rubin.

sheard - good pick....looks legit

little - ok pick.....he'll round into a decent player i think, but rookie year was rough.

cameron - bad pick....has potential. project TE in the forth?

Not a "bad pick"...a 'too soon to tell' pick I would say.

maercic - ok pick....got better as the year wore on. still too small for those shoes tho...

skrine - ok pick...little speedster may make fine nickel back.

pinkston - good pick....held up OK as a 6th round starting guard. should get better...

hagg - ok pick....wanna see more...

jmo...but just because they're sere alot of rookie starters doesn't mean they deserved it or excelled. pinky was the only one i thought stepped in during a crisis and elevated his game.

[bringbackbrownie2]

@choco said:

haden - good pick...no brainer.

ward - ok pick....good run support, pass liability. injury issues recently.

hardesty - not only a bad pick, but we spent 2 additional 5ths to move up.

colt - ok pick....will be a backup soon. still a good value pick.

lavauo - bad pick....started, but got handled all year. needs replaced.

asante - bad pick....didn't make the cut

mitchell - bad pick....who?

geathers - bad pick...off the team.

taylor - good pick....should form a good tandem with rubin.

sheard - good pick....looks legit

little - ok pick.....he'll round into a decent player i think, but rookie year was rough.

cameron - bad pick....has potential. project TE in the forth?

maercic - ok pick....got better as the year wore on. still too small for those shoes tho...

skrine - ok pick...little speedster may make fine nickel back.

pinkston - good pick....held up OK as a 6th round starting guard. should get better...

hagg - ok pick....wanna see more...

jmo...but just because they're sere alot of rookie starters doesn't mean they deserved it or excelled. pinky was the only one i thought stepped in during a crisis and elevated his game.

I agree with your assessment except for Cameron. He hardly played football in college and still has a lot to learn. He is still a question mark at this point so you can't label him as a good or bad pick yet.

But you also have to look at the big picture. No team has a perfect draft. Every GM makes good picks and bad picks. The key is to pick well with your early picks and get lucky on your late round picks. The past 2 years we have done that. Haden, Ward, Taylor, Sheard, and Little were all good picks. Hardesty is the only pick within the first 2 rounds that has bust written all over him. 5/6 is a damn good ratio and miles ahead of the crap early draft picks we had before Heckert. That is why I am excited for this year's draft with two 1sts and a 2nd rounder to add to our early round success. Our 3rd rounder and the two 4ths might be the key to next season and I'm hopeful Heckert can make at least 4 of those picks really count!

[Canton Mike]

Lavauo...Was basically a rookie playing beside a weak tackle. Give him time.

Cameron...I think this guy may be the sleeper of last year's draft for us. Time will tell.

Any draft is going to have hits & misses. Compared to prior years, I think the last 2 have been fine. We just need more & this year we need offensive play makers. We'll see what happens, but I do trust our decision makers.

Mike

[BrownIndian]

At point to we go FA ? By the time we get 80% of the team built, the early drafters would want to move somewhere else or would be on the verge of retiring.

[choco]

keep in mind, most of those opinions are based on production vs. value of pick....

like skrine....he got spot duty and played ok, but at 6th round value its a better pick than lavauo starting and getting his ass handed to him at 3rd round.

also, i try to give 3 years before really judging a player. can mitchell become relevant? im more than willing to give him the time to prove it. cameron has potential...sure....but not in the 4th. FB? quite a few headscratchers in those drafts, but we'll see soon enough.

[choco]

@brownindian said:

At point to we go FA ? By the time we get 80% of the team built, the early drafters would want to move somewhere else or would be on the verge of retiring.

not so heavily this year....come 2013, they'll have all the cap spent (by new CBA). honestly tho, we'd have to see who's available after the tags get placed to see if there's any fits.